I actually was offered one last week from a guy that used to be in 5th, figured it was just a unit purchase, unaware Crane had bought rifles as well,
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I talked to my buddy who was on an ODA in 5th Group last night. He confirmed what's being discussed here. Still not sure if I'm going to keep my MIRS or not.
My understanding is that your mount with the large 'oval' cutout on left side allowed the rifle’s full serial # to be seen/ read, and was a slight revision done to the later mounts. The earlier ones just have another circular hole in that area (obscuring the full serial #). I don't know what year this revision took place. (Mr. McCann passed away some time ago, so that specific part history might be lost).
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That makes sense, never asked him for any other pics, since I had a new mars in the wrapper still, may messge hom and see if He will send me a few more. Most I had seen had just holes, wasnt sure when the oval came about
All these MIRS equipped M24s appear to be hosting the MK4 3.5-10x LR/T. I'm not sure when units started fielding these or whether or not they were a procurement or COTS purchases.
Anyone know where to source an extra receiver screw for the MIRS? I see some available at Badger Ordnance, just wasn't sure what size/type I need.
Not sure. I can pull it and take a pic tomorrow if it'll help.
I'm pretty sure the type for the receiver is 8-40, which Brownells has, but I need to get the right length/depth.
FWIW, McCann was right outside post. We, and many other units, bought directly from him
All these MIRS equipped M24s appear to be hosting the MK4 3.5-10x LR/T. I'm not sure when units started fielding these or whether or not they were a procurement or COTS purchases.
They are indeed 8/40s
I found an extra 8-40 torx base screw in the deployment kit. Still missing one. If anyone has an extra they're willing to part with please let me know. Thanks.
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My guess is that hundreds were purchased via gov't contracts, with Crane likely the key customer when it comes to SOCOM sniper rifles. Crane buys or builds all the SOCOM precision/sniper rifles (SEALs, Ranger Regiment, SF groups, etc) and has a very streamlined procurement process (only 1 Executive Program Office, whereas I think Big Army has 11 Executive Program Offices). Hence Navy at Crane can buy low volumes of exotic gear for SOCOM-related mission support within a relatively short procurement timeline. They can even create their own local NSN numbers for required items/equipment that lack a National Stock Number (NSN). Other branches don't have that level of flexibility.
I will also note that the military prefers to purchase 'systems' to the extent possible, and the MIRS rail was part of a night vision system (involving 3 items).
My understanding is that six hundred daytime/nighttime optical systems were ordered by Crane in 2004 for the MK 13 Mod 0/1 and M24s. The system included 600 MIRs rails, UNS/PVS-22s units, and Leupold 3.5-10x scopes, so that's my best guess as to when SOCOM units like the Rangers could have started fielding M24s with MIRS rails, 3.5-10X Leupolds, and PVS-22s for night vision purposes. That's all I know.
ON EDIT: I recently traded an item and got one of the former military 3.5-10x40mm Leupold tactical scopes that was sold via US govt action in Anniston, AL (aka DRMO process). It's 2009 dated, so it most like came off a US Army M14 EBR like the rifle seen in this 2011 Leupold Tactical catalog. (The Leupold 3.5-10x tactical scopes procured by Crane along with the MIRs rails & PVS-22s would likely be dated 2003 or 2004).
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That's a great find. I had to settle for the commercial variant (MK4 3.5-10x40 M3 LR/T with the TMR in the 2nd focal plane) for my M24 project. Still can't decide whether to do a GWOT era with the Crane mods or keep it OG with the original Ultra 10x. I guess I'll have to get another M24 so I can have both. Let me know if you ever decide to offload that MK4.
Does anyone know exactly which optic Nick is running on this rig? When you zoom in on the power ring it looks like the focal range is 4.5-14x, but I could not find any information about a MK4 4.5-14x40 with M3 turrets.
What I acquired from the gov't auction is Leupold part 51850, a basic 2nd focal plane scope with Mil-Dot reticle. Nothing fancy.
The NSN was created in 2010, probably for the M14 EBRs, but as I noted earlier, Crane can create a local NSN to expedite procurements. Given the MIRs rail on that M24, my guess the optic was part of the order for 600 Leupold 3.5-10x scopes back in 2004 - at least that is what I was told by a knowledgeable veteran (former SOTIC instructor). Here's the NSN as far as I know:
The FFP plane version of the 3.5-10x40mm scope with M3 turrets is item #58860 - but I don't think Leupold made FFP scopes until either 2007 or 2008, if I recall correctly, so my best guess is the scope in the picture (dated 2009) is the 51850. Attached is the 2009 dated Leupold Tactical catalog that might be legible that shows the options at that time.
The NSN was created in 2010, probably for the M14 EBRs, but as I noted earlier, Crane can create a local NSN to expedite procurements. Given the MIRs rail on that M24, my guess the optic was part of the order for 600 Leupold 3.5-10x scopes back in 2004 - at least that is what I was told by a knowledgeable veteran (former SOTIC instructor). Here's the NSN as far as I know:
The FFP plane version of the 3.5-10x40mm scope with M3 turrets is item #58860 - but I don't think Leupold made FFP scopes until either 2007 or 2008, if I recall correctly, so my best guess is the scope in the picture (dated 2009) is the 51850. Attached is the 2009 dated Leupold Tactical catalog that might be legible that shows the options at that time.
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Leupold did have a 4.5-14X40 with target turrets, could be it got sent to the custom shop for M3 turrets.
Good research. The one I ended up with is Leupold part# 60025. 2nd focal plane is fine. I find FFP useful for optics that are 10x and up, but anything below that becomes difficult to range due to the shrinking reticle. It doesn't really bother me that the one I got isn't exactly "historically accurate" because I prefer the TMR over a mil dot reticle for practical use. Having a historically accurate optic is really just a "nice to have" for me since I do plan on actually shooting the rifle a lot and not just keep it as a collector piece/safe queen. Unless circumstances dictate otherwise, it's a nice piece of history from my time in the service that I hope to pass on to my kids and future generations.
My understanding is that the pic was taken during a sniper competition, so it's likely either a unit COTS purchase or maybe even someone's personal glass used for comp. Not sure why a standard issue optic wasn't used though.
Regarding the 4-14x optic. It may be hard to see in the attached picture, but the shape of the turret housing itself is a little smaller/shorter on the 4-14x40 Target scope - when compared to the housing on the similar scopes with the larger M3 turrets. The housing is about 2 or 3 millimeters taller on scopes with the M3 dials. Not sure Leupold would be able to swap turrets given the difference in size of the housing....
Regardless, I will note that the turret housing seen on Nick Irving's rifle is definitely the larger/taller one. Based on the pic, he was most likely shooting an M24 that had been equipped with the MIRs rail and standard 3.5-10x Leupold optic set-up that Crane has previously purchased as a daytime/night time optical system for long action Remingtons as used by SOCOM). My 2cts.
FWIW, I also prefer the TMR reticle over the standard Mil-Dot. IMO, all those old Mk 4 Leupold tactical scopes are good. I have several of them....
Regardless, I will note that the turret housing seen on Nick Irving's rifle is definitely the larger/taller one. Based on the pic, he was most likely shooting an M24 that had been equipped with the MIRs rail and standard 3.5-10x Leupold optic set-up that Crane has previously purchased as a daytime/night time optical system for long action Remingtons as used by SOCOM). My 2cts.
FWIW, I also prefer the TMR reticle over the standard Mil-Dot. IMO, all those old Mk 4 Leupold tactical scopes are good. I have several of them....
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I suspect that as well, but not sure why they'd allow the use of custom optics for a military sniper competition and not unit issued optics. I never participated in a sniper comp, so I don't know the rules.
*pic for future reference
Wow, thanks for enlarging that image. Its not a 3.5-10x afterall, and it sure does looks like it goes up to 14x. Interesting (and stealthy).
Looking at my scope's magnification ring and the relative position of the protrusion, mine reads '6x' where his reads 8x, and mine reads 8x where his reads 11x. That's pretty sneaky...wonder if he had Leupold's Custom shop swap out the rear ocular & related lens for the 14x magnification seen in their target scope...
Looking at my scope's magnification ring and the relative position of the protrusion, mine reads '6x' where his reads 8x, and mine reads 8x where his reads 11x. That's pretty sneaky...wonder if he had Leupold's Custom shop swap out the rear ocular & related lens for the 14x magnification seen in their target scope...
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Does anyone have a spare old-school Leupold M24 scope rail they could sell? A buddy is looking for one for a retro project, so I thought I'd ask on this thread. Badger Ordnance made an exact copy of these rails a while back (see attached). Please contact me if you have one to sell.
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I almost sold mine when I made the decision to take the M24 in a more modernized direction. However, I ultimately decided it's better to keep all the original components for a future retro M24 I hope to do later (Ultra M3A 10x, steel rings and base, 9-13 LM bipod, bottom metal). I like the dull steel look of the original rings and base and I'm not sure that it would be easy to replicate that with the Badger.
I'm looking for a couple of 8-40 screws for the standard base if anyone has any to spare.
I'm keeping the OG Leupold rings and base together. I bought a new set of MK4 rings for the 3.5-10x and MIRS.
The original Leupold and Badger one piece bases are weaver style, the two piece base is picatinny, not sure when Marty started making the bases for them. Does anyone of the dimenesions on a leupold one piece v a badger one piece.
Random guy, good to know, I have two, one is definitely a Badger as I bought it, the differences in both are a 1/10 or 2 here or there
My assumption is that Marty copied the rail on an early M24 (which I think he owns), just as he did with the reproduction M40 mount he made a few years ago. (Alternatively, he might have the gov't drawing for this part, but that's just a guess). This web image came from the old BO catalog, but I don't have an original from the mid-200Xs, so the dimensions are not clear. I have a BO but not the original Leupold part. Again, my understanding is 'exact reproduction' per BO catalog listing.
Some Leupold Tactical (aka M24) rails that came off early Navy 300 WinMag rifles (pre-Mk 13 Mod 0):
...my BO rail looks identical, minus the finish wear and paint.
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Came across an older post in another thread that mentioned the MIRS coming loose under continuous strings of fire unless additional pins were added to the receiver. Recently exchanged comms with the gunsmith who mentioned it and he said it was a common issue when he worked on M24s. He did say that if only running a relatively lightweight day optic like the Ultra/MK4 it shouldn't be an issue. The problem rears its head when heavier optics, clip-on NV or other devices are attached adding weight to the rail system. Just wondering if anyone has run into this problem just running a day optic. I really don't fancy the idea of poking additional holes into the receiver unless I know for sure I'll be getting another M24 for a dedicated retro build. You guys are great. Thanks.
Months ago there was a Mk 13 Mod 5 rail on eBay that had additional dowl pins to secure the rail, but I should note that those are 300 WinMag rifles and the recoil forces are much less than with a 308W M24. I wish I would have saved pics of that rail. Between the earlier MIRs and the later MARS rail, the MARs is a better design. Here's what I know (lightly edited) and again, this testing was likely done with 300 WinMag Mk 13 Mod 0 rifles, and might not apply to the M24 to as much of an extent.
...So other than the MARS rail, another option is to use larger screws to mount the MIRs rail, which I have heard one buddy did when building a Mk 13/300 WinMag replica with MIRs rail.
...So other than the MARS rail, another option is to use larger screws to mount the MIRs rail, which I have heard one buddy did when building a Mk 13/300 WinMag replica with MIRs rail.
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Terry Cross has brought that up before and tbh, solid advice if coming from him.
On the morning of June 25th 2005, our Scout Platoon was given a mission to link up and conduct a joint patrol with local Iraqi Security Forces in an effort to gain actionable intelligence on enemy activity within the Sarai District of Tal’Afar, Iraq. At the time, we all knew the Sarai District was one of the most volatile areas in Northern Iraq, where we frequently encountered an extremely hostile and aggressive enemy force. Our mission was to link-up with our local Iraqi military and police counterparts, and proceed into the area on foot, with our Bradley Fighting Vehicles providing direct support and security over-watch. We were to go to door-to-door, what we referred to as a “knock and greet”, and conduct face-to-face meeting engagements with the local residents in an effort to try to get anyone to tell us anything about what was happening in the area. As scouts, this wasn’t the way we would traditionally conduct reconnaissance missions, but this was a very different type of operating environment, and most missions we conducted just weren’t conventional. It wasn’t long before people began to disappear into their homes and the first enemy shots rang out, and we found ourselves in the midst of yet another firefight. We immediately suffered a casualty as the first barrage of bullets ripped through the air critically wounding one of our Sergeants. Without regard for our own safety, others and myself rushed into the kill zone to pull one of our wounded behind cover. The bullet left him completely immobilized. We proceeded to treat the gunshot wound to the best of our limited ability and called for an urgent medical evacuation to get him off to safety and to a higher level of care. During the four hour engagement, we stood our ground and fought off several dozen enemy fighters, captured an enemy munitions cache and one enemy fighter, while killing and wounding dozens more with the help from our pre-positioned sniper team and air support assets. During the ground exfiltration, I was shot while seeking cover from a hail of machine gun fire and also had to be ground evacuated. The experience of being in that situation wasn’t traumatizing in and of itself, but it was more or less the emotional trauma of losing one of the guys who saved my life just two weeks later in another firefight, and also the loss of our platoon medic during the same incident. Our platoon had a suffered a 30% casualty rate at that point, with three killed in action and six wounded in action, and I began to suffer survivor’s guilt. I unconsciously began to bury those painful experiences in the dark recesses of my memory in an effort to remain resilient and return to the fight. It was a long hot summer, but ultimately, we liberated the city.
The M24 sniper weapon system was employed by our platoon sniper who was perched up on parapet in an Ottoman era castle, which was the highest point of the city of Tal’Afar. Back then, we worked frequently with Special Forces ODA 392. Chuck’s team provided sniper overwatch jointly with our own sniper, and together were able to repel a numerically superior AQI force bearing down on our position. Very proud to finally call this rifle my own. Special thanks to Grave Solutions for squaring me away with the custom sling.
Command Inspection layout. Scouts out. Recon by fire.
The M24 sniper weapon system was employed by our platoon sniper who was perched up on parapet in an Ottoman era castle, which was the highest point of the city of Tal’Afar. Back then, we worked frequently with Special Forces ODA 392. Chuck’s team provided sniper overwatch jointly with our own sniper, and together were able to repel a numerically superior AQI force bearing down on our position. Very proud to finally call this rifle my own. Special thanks to Grave Solutions for squaring me away with the custom sling.
Command Inspection layout. Scouts out. Recon by fire.
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This was the modernized retrofit setup before I ultimately decided to keep it old school retro. I did like it, but at the end of the day I think I'll always prefer the simplicity of the original aesthetics. I won't do both. Time to move on to the next project.
Pursuing an M24 has truly been a labor of love and this thread provided invaluable information and resources to help me realize the effort. I appreciate all of you who answered questions and provided feedback. Charlie Mike
Pursuing an M24 has truly been a labor of love and this thread provided invaluable information and resources to help me realize the effort. I appreciate all of you who answered questions and provided feedback. Charlie Mike
Saw this in CRA. Great job man!This was the modernized retrofit setup before I ultimately decided to keep it old school retro. I did like it, but at the end of the day I think I'll always prefer the simplicity of the original aesthetics. I won't do both. Time to move on to the next project.
Pursuing an M24 has truly been a labor of love and this thread provided invaluable information and resources to help me realize the effort. I appreciate all of you who answered questions and provided feedback. Charlie Mike
Aaron
I agree, the kit you assembled around this rifle is truly impressive, great job(!).
Little bit of an update on my kit gathering. Added a few more bits here and there. Have a lot collected but still a fair bit to go. Almost a sickness at this point haha
I'm admittedly going a bit far down the rabbit hole. If it was issued with the 24 at some point in its service life, I'm gathering the parts. Redfield irons and OK Webers. M49 spotter to M144 to M151. Harris 9-13 and Harris 6-9. Ultra M3a and Mk4 3.5-10. On and on and points in between.
The original Leupold & Stevens Ultra single piece Long Action 700 mount base was supposedly manufactured by Brookfield Precision Tool. The 1986 L&S catalogue does not list any LA Ultra 1-piece base. Eodsix mentioned this in a May 4th, 2011 post.
There have been multiple posts claiming Badger Ordnance made the M24 mount after L&S discontinued offering it.
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I had not heard that Brookfield Precision Tool (BPT) made scope mounts for the M24. Interesting. I do know in the 1986-1988 era BPT's owner, Mitch Mateiko was busy perfecting an M14 mount that was tested at Ft Devens, MA and utilized on the 10th SFG XM25 sniper rifles. Attached is a picture of Mitch circa 1988 with the prototype XM25 rifle at Ft Deven's range as used by the 10th SFG. Also attached are some instructions for the mount circa 1998, which is about the latest date I have seen for these mounts. (several other branches used the BPT M14 scope mounts, which I think came out in 1987-88 period).
I may ask Mitch (via email) if he made the M24 scope mount back in 1988ish, but my guess is that Leupold made it - as Mitch was focused on M14 parts and his machine shop was reportedly busy as a subcontractor making some M2 50 BMG component parts as a subcontractor to General Dynamics. I think Leupold moved to the 2-piece versions at some point as they could be used interchangeably on an M700 short action, long action, or magnum length action, hence the 2 piece was a more economical mount than making 3 separate 1-piece mounts.
(Note: The Leupold M3A 10x Ultra scope didn't get is NSN until July 1987, and the scope mount might not have been a production item in time for a 1986 catalog, as it wasn't yet approved. The M24 contract award occured in July 1987 and the first articles were submitted for testing in Oct 1987. A 1988 dated Leupold catalog would be interesting to review....) That said, it would not surprise me if BO made some M24 mounts for the gov't after Leupold discontinued them.
I may ask Mitch (via email) if he made the M24 scope mount back in 1988ish, but my guess is that Leupold made it - as Mitch was focused on M14 parts and his machine shop was reportedly busy as a subcontractor making some M2 50 BMG component parts as a subcontractor to General Dynamics. I think Leupold moved to the 2-piece versions at some point as they could be used interchangeably on an M700 short action, long action, or magnum length action, hence the 2 piece was a more economical mount than making 3 separate 1-piece mounts.
(Note: The Leupold M3A 10x Ultra scope didn't get is NSN until July 1987, and the scope mount might not have been a production item in time for a 1986 catalog, as it wasn't yet approved. The M24 contract award occured in July 1987 and the first articles were submitted for testing in Oct 1987. A 1988 dated Leupold catalog would be interesting to review....) That said, it would not surprise me if BO made some M24 mounts for the gov't after Leupold discontinued them.
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The Brookfield Precision Tool connection is also mentioned in The Military and Police Sniper by Mike R. Lau on page 30. He mentions their M1A/M14 commercial mount as well.
When did you get to Tal Afar? We had a couple teams there from about October 04-January 05. They spent a lot of time at the castle at that time.
Around late March/early April 2005 - 2006. The Sarai District was our Troop's primary AO and we'd launch patrols from the Castle often.
