Thanks. I get 12x8x17 with the hopper still attached. The food processor covers didn't seem to fit the LxW of 12x8 but I found a Juicer cover that has a big of extra space. Will report back and post link to it if it fits.
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AutoTrickler V4
- Thread starter adamjmac
- Start date
Hi,
A value of 2.5 grains for transition weight means the small tube takes over 2.5 grains *from* the target. By setting it to 1, you have told the system you want the large tube to run all the way up to 1 grain *from* the target which is likely much too close and is causing the problem.
V4 has new adjustments that are not necessarily intuitive. The calibrated flow rate is a key part of what happens and certain powders may like certain tilt angles or settings while others are different. If anyone has an issue with performance please come straight to me by email ([email protected]) and explain what's happening, what your calibrated flow rates are, what powder you have, and a quick video showing a representative cycle. Then I will be able to immediately suggest what changes could be made.
Thanks
A value of 2.5 grains for transition weight means the small tube takes over 2.5 grains *from* the target. By setting it to 1, you have told the system you want the large tube to run all the way up to 1 grain *from* the target which is likely much too close and is causing the problem.
V4 has new adjustments that are not necessarily intuitive. The calibrated flow rate is a key part of what happens and certain powders may like certain tilt angles or settings while others are different. If anyone has an issue with performance please come straight to me by email ([email protected]) and explain what's happening, what your calibrated flow rates are, what powder you have, and a quick video showing a representative cycle. Then I will be able to immediately suggest what changes could be made.
Thanks
Just a couple more comments after reading the rest of the thread.
The bushing in the back is sticky to ball powders, we included a brush to handle that. Powder shouldn't stick anywhere else. If there's any static on plastic parts it will go away with use as powder dust settles in. You can try and speed that process up with a dryer sheet if it's in fact static.
A heavier hopper means risk of tipping over. We tried to push the hopper as far front as possible.
If you feel the need to shim and change the tilt angle, start by looking at what the calibrated flow rate is. You want that close to 0.15 GN/s. If it's under 0.10 then tilt down, if it's over 0.20 then tilt up. Quickly make changes by adjusting the scale feet. The scale doesn't need to be level so you can use the bubble as a reference for tilt.
We were going to have an adjustment screw in the back but changed our minds for a few reasons. It is hard to set that screw perfectly within 5 thou before shipping, and because it was a sharp set screw head, it was digging into the rubber bumpers in a way that varies between units and with the weight of powder in the hopper. It was not precise. So we changed the design to have a machined cavity of depth 0.110" and for the ones already machined we chose and measured bumpers front and back that provide that exact tilt angle. Going forward the housing sits on three identical bumpers and achieves the same result, it's always 0.110 for every unit, or at least within 5 thou.
I found in my testing, and from the experience of all the beta testers, that 0.110 was the right amount that gives a good average flow rate with average powders, while also working with fine ball and large magnum powders.
If the tilt needs to be adjusted, I'd like to hear about it and understand why and test that for myself here. But we start by looking at the flow rate and the other settings.
I don't always check all the forums but I do check and answer every email so please email me details of any concerns and I'll find time to dedicate to answering properly.
The bushing in the back is sticky to ball powders, we included a brush to handle that. Powder shouldn't stick anywhere else. If there's any static on plastic parts it will go away with use as powder dust settles in. You can try and speed that process up with a dryer sheet if it's in fact static.
A heavier hopper means risk of tipping over. We tried to push the hopper as far front as possible.
If you feel the need to shim and change the tilt angle, start by looking at what the calibrated flow rate is. You want that close to 0.15 GN/s. If it's under 0.10 then tilt down, if it's over 0.20 then tilt up. Quickly make changes by adjusting the scale feet. The scale doesn't need to be level so you can use the bubble as a reference for tilt.
We were going to have an adjustment screw in the back but changed our minds for a few reasons. It is hard to set that screw perfectly within 5 thou before shipping, and because it was a sharp set screw head, it was digging into the rubber bumpers in a way that varies between units and with the weight of powder in the hopper. It was not precise. So we changed the design to have a machined cavity of depth 0.110" and for the ones already machined we chose and measured bumpers front and back that provide that exact tilt angle. Going forward the housing sits on three identical bumpers and achieves the same result, it's always 0.110 for every unit, or at least within 5 thou.
I found in my testing, and from the experience of all the beta testers, that 0.110 was the right amount that gives a good average flow rate with average powders, while also working with fine ball and large magnum powders.
If the tilt needs to be adjusted, I'd like to hear about it and understand why and test that for myself here. But we start by looking at the flow rate and the other settings.
I don't always check all the forums but I do check and answer every email so please email me details of any concerns and I'll find time to dedicate to answering properly.
This:
...should not be happening. Put the glass cup directly under the funnel about 1/4" offset and the funnel should be within about 1/8" of the top of the cup. With the stock platen - remove the aftermarket parts and try it normal. I've run a lot of ball powder through and it doesn't splash. If this is a problem then send me a picture side-on by email and maybe a video.
...should not be happening. Put the glass cup directly under the funnel about 1/4" offset and the funnel should be within about 1/8" of the top of the cup. With the stock platen - remove the aftermarket parts and try it normal. I've run a lot of ball powder through and it doesn't splash. If this is a problem then send me a picture side-on by email and maybe a video.
Hi,
One more thing about the tilt I wanted to talk about. The small tube and the way powder flows should be exactly the same as V1, V2, and V3. So whatever tilt angle you needed for V3 is probably the same tilt angle you'll need for V4. If you need to shim it differently for different powders then you also probably needed to adjust the base screw in V3 back and forth for different powders - it's the same concept.
With V3 we wanted 0.5 GN/s at full speed. With V4 we are looking for 0.15 - 0.20 in calibration which should be about the same.
The speed and precision of the last couple grains, and last few kernels, should also be exactly the same as a tuned V3. If it's not, it can probably benefit from tuning. V4 is not any faster or slower except with the large tube vs AutoThrow.
The difference with V4 is that the settings are numbers instead of trial and error. So you can switch powders faster without retuning everything. There's also a lot more than can be changed other than just the three sliders on the settings page. The app controls about 20 values which I can update. Your feedback makes that happen sooner rather than later.
I hope that a fixed tilt angle works with all powders, maybe we should be using 80 or 90 thou instead of 110 if most of you have a 20 thou shim in place. But whatever it is please let me know if you really, really need to change tilt angles when switching between two powders, and which powders, so I understand and can recreate it here.
I had planned on integrating a bubble level into the housing but with the bubble in the scale, it seemed redundant, and I was having a hard time figuring out how to mount a bubble at an angle (intentionally not level) and then have a foot adjustment to make the bubble centered to produce an upward tilt of a very specific and precise angle. I eventually decided to just level the scale which makes the platform level and then build the tilt into the housing. If necessary, a shim is a repeatable object that can be labeled, put in or taken away consistently, without having to turn a screw and involve trial and error. It seemed like a better way forward but I'm open to suggestions.
One more thing about the tilt I wanted to talk about. The small tube and the way powder flows should be exactly the same as V1, V2, and V3. So whatever tilt angle you needed for V3 is probably the same tilt angle you'll need for V4. If you need to shim it differently for different powders then you also probably needed to adjust the base screw in V3 back and forth for different powders - it's the same concept.
With V3 we wanted 0.5 GN/s at full speed. With V4 we are looking for 0.15 - 0.20 in calibration which should be about the same.
The speed and precision of the last couple grains, and last few kernels, should also be exactly the same as a tuned V3. If it's not, it can probably benefit from tuning. V4 is not any faster or slower except with the large tube vs AutoThrow.
The difference with V4 is that the settings are numbers instead of trial and error. So you can switch powders faster without retuning everything. There's also a lot more than can be changed other than just the three sliders on the settings page. The app controls about 20 values which I can update. Your feedback makes that happen sooner rather than later.
I hope that a fixed tilt angle works with all powders, maybe we should be using 80 or 90 thou instead of 110 if most of you have a 20 thou shim in place. But whatever it is please let me know if you really, really need to change tilt angles when switching between two powders, and which powders, so I understand and can recreate it here.
I had planned on integrating a bubble level into the housing but with the bubble in the scale, it seemed redundant, and I was having a hard time figuring out how to mount a bubble at an angle (intentionally not level) and then have a foot adjustment to make the bubble centered to produce an upward tilt of a very specific and precise angle. I eventually decided to just level the scale which makes the platform level and then build the tilt into the housing. If necessary, a shim is a repeatable object that can be labeled, put in or taken away consistently, without having to turn a screw and involve trial and error. It seemed like a better way forward but I'm open to suggestions.
After further evaluation, it seems that when I adjusted the transition down to 1.0gr, that was the issue of why the small tube motor was acting erratically. The time segment from transition to target was too small. I moved the transition up to 1.7gr. I left the large motor speed at 5, which gave a flow rate of 13.9gr/s. And I lowered the small motor speed down to 3, which gave a flow rate of .15gr/s.
For this powder, IMR4198, those settings above proved to be the sweet spot. The small tube motor behaved as it was supposed to. The target weight was reached (+/-.02gr) every time. And a lot of throws were perfect to the zero. Lesson learned.
Man, the V4 really works well with extruded powder. Once you get the flow rate right.
Thank you Adam for your help.
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Got mine Friday, haven't even had a chance to open the box yet. Looking forward to trying it out for sure. For those still waiting, from the time I got my email letting me know it was ready and to make my payment it was a week until it shipped, then another week until it arrived. Hope that helps. For reference, I reserved mine at 2:15pm atlantic time on 3/12.
Edit: Good to see some info from Adam on the thread, much appreciated @adamjmac. If I have any issues with the unit, I'll be sure to email you, but am guessing I won't need to after reading your info posted here.
Edit: Good to see some info from Adam on the thread, much appreciated @adamjmac. If I have any issues with the unit, I'll be sure to email you, but am guessing I won't need to after reading your info posted here.
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I saw one of the reviews that showed the upgraded cup doesn’t fit as well on the original tray. I’d been thinking about upgrading to 419 parts for the V3 but hadn’t got around to it. Now they’re running a cyber sale and I don’t want to buy anything without it still being valid. So I know the lid is redundant now but can anybody please enlighten me/us on what will still be relevant?
If you've got a V03, the Area 419 tray is a handy upgrade, but the location of the drop spout in the V04 is moved forward a bit so that it doesn't align with the centered divot that the powder cup rests in. It doesn't prevent you from doing accurate drops, but it negates the handiness of the new tray.
From what I've seen, the only thing that may transfer would be the cup. Everything else has changed.
A little V4 experiment...
8.5gr Power Pistol (small flake)
Under 180gr XTP for .44 SPECIAL
Out of 50 throws, 48 were 8.48gr, the other 2 were 8.5. No over throws. I didn't time it but it was fast enough. Fast throw with the large tube to approx 7.5gr then the small tube took over.
I found 3 flakes on the scale that I think fell out of the funnel when the pan was not under it.
There was a lot of powder clinging to the hopper after it was emptied. I used a small soft twisted brush to get it all out along with a used dryer sheet. Aside from the clingers it handled the fine powder, well, fine. Maybe once it's had more powder through it that issue will go away.
Not the application I bought it for but wanted to see none the less.
This is with a V4 and Scale combination without any modifications or aftermarket stuff.
8.5gr Power Pistol (small flake)
Under 180gr XTP for .44 SPECIAL
Out of 50 throws, 48 were 8.48gr, the other 2 were 8.5. No over throws. I didn't time it but it was fast enough. Fast throw with the large tube to approx 7.5gr then the small tube took over.
I found 3 flakes on the scale that I think fell out of the funnel when the pan was not under it.
There was a lot of powder clinging to the hopper after it was emptied. I used a small soft twisted brush to get it all out along with a used dryer sheet. Aside from the clingers it handled the fine powder, well, fine. Maybe once it's had more powder through it that issue will go away.
Not the application I bought it for but wanted to see none the less.
This is with a V4 and Scale combination without any modifications or aftermarket stuff.
Their cup works great. I’ve never been a fan of the shot glass. I found powder bounced a lot with the V3. I used it once with extruded powder in the V4. Nope.
I happened to have a second 419 cup, and it works very well with the V4. The rest of Area419 stuff……..
I just received my V4 yesterday. I was a 3/12 between 3:07pm and 10:35pm Atlantic reservation holder and paid back in August maybe. Have not had a chance to open the box, but looking forward to it!
I hope to get shipping notification soon. I am same date time slot. Looking forward to it.
Damn. I thought the whole "pay invoice" was because your order was shipping out in 3-5 days. I got my invoice and paid on Thanksgiving... hopefully, I get it shortly and not in late January or February.
For my shipment, I did not receive any notice that it had shipped, it just arrived on my doorstep. It was a happy package receipt for me!
From Adam's email from this summer, shipment is being made based on reservation date/time, and you could pay just before shipment or early and wait, with supposedly no negative impact on your reservation time. I just paid because I hoped it might ship earlier and I might forget to pay later.
If your reservation was like mine, it should ship shortly I would assume as he is shipping the 3/12 3-10:34pm Atlantic reservations.
I didn't pay when I got my first notice and opted to pay when it was 'soon to be shipped'. Hence my question. Mine was reserved in the same time frame as you. Just sent him an email to ensure no issues with my invoice as per the above, mine should've shipped by 11/26; I paid 11/24.
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I just got email from Adam. Mine should be shipping this week. I was March 12th 3-10pm, so they are a few weeks behind, but not bad.
Gmail had this in my "promotions" folder that I don't look at due to dozens of garbage emails a day. Just caught it in time (I think) to make shipping this week.
3/12 between 3:07pm and 10:35pm
- received an invoice to pay on 11/24
- received tracking number 12/9
- received an invoice to pay on 11/24
- received tracking number 12/9
Well, after reading this (just happened to see it as I was scrolling past), I started to wonder about what was up with my order. I ordered early, but still hadn't seen anything.
Soooo...I log into my gmail and search on "Adam V4"...nope, just the normal notices about what order they were shipping in, and that my order was supposed to ship on the 12th of Nov..
Hmmm...on a whim I searched on "Adam MacDonald", and lo and behold, there's my request for payment...dated Nov 25th. WTF?!?!?
I then noticed that it came from a different email address than all the other correspondence. FML...smdh...
Payment submitted. Now I guess I wait.
Smh.
Constructive criticism to Adam.
In the future if there is a waiting list I would suggest keeping all the correspondence tied to the same email address. With it all defaulting to the "Promotions" inbox, and it being the holiday season, it's no surprise it got buried/lost. Also, may want to consider having people enter a mobile phone number for SMS text notifications of shipment/payment requests, without necessarily signing up for a barrage of advertisements.
Just a thought for future endeavors....
Soooo...I log into my gmail and search on "Adam V4"...nope, just the normal notices about what order they were shipping in, and that my order was supposed to ship on the 12th of Nov..
Hmmm...on a whim I searched on "Adam MacDonald", and lo and behold, there's my request for payment...dated Nov 25th. WTF?!?!?
I then noticed that it came from a different email address than all the other correspondence. FML...smdh...
Payment submitted. Now I guess I wait.
Smh.
Constructive criticism to Adam.
In the future if there is a waiting list I would suggest keeping all the correspondence tied to the same email address. With it all defaulting to the "Promotions" inbox, and it being the holiday season, it's no surprise it got buried/lost. Also, may want to consider having people enter a mobile phone number for SMS text notifications of shipment/payment requests, without necessarily signing up for a barrage of advertisements.
Just a thought for future endeavors....
I doubt yours is delayed by missing early payment. I paid on 11/24 and got tracking yesterday. However, it still hasn't shipped.
Man, I've had mine for 3 weeks, Haven't taken it out the box hahaha... Literally collecting dust right now.
Update: Mine just shipped. Christmas going to be quite nice this year (AT-X gets out of jail just before as well).
Why do people put the scales on marble slabs? I've always thought about putting them on subwoofer iso pads to deep them away from vibration, but never done it. I guess marble has the big advantage of set and forget for leveling. It doesn't exactly squish.
Vibration and consistent leveling. I use 1.5" sorbothane rubber bumpers on the slab underneath to help even more.
I picked up my marble slab at a counter shop for $10. So no-brainer and doesn't hurt.
Wondering with all the tweaking that can be done in the app, if everyone submitted their found sweet spots for powders, if they could integrate a powder type menu in the app which would then auto set to those settings? Would be a bit of a pain to set up at first, but would be really handy.
I found using the calibrate function works pretty well each time you change powders. The setting that seems to make the biggest difference is the transition weight, set too low you'll overshoot a lot, set too high it will add quite a bit of time to each load. I am finding 1.6 is a pretty good compromise.
One thing I have noticed is with ball powder because it's so fine it very consistently stops at 0.02 before the target which makes sense since that's the accepted accuracy. My simple solution was to set the target 0.02 higher.
I hit the calibrate button, and run the speed slider at 8. That tends to keep overcharging to a minimum.
I have a customer sending in a V4 for me to make some improved parts. Billet is sweet, but unnecessary for lots of components here. We'll be following up with the tastiest prints this side and that side of the Mississippi. Really should just be doing them OEM. The stock FDM prints I've seen look really gross.
Excellent! I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
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Just looked in other folder, found a shipping notice 
will be here next Wed just in time for Christmas My order # is 13113 and I reserved on March 12th 3-10pm. So they are running about a month behind from original estimated shipping.
will be here next Wed just in time for Christmas My order # is 13113 and I reserved on March 12th 3-10pm. So they are running about a month behind from original estimated shipping.
Excellent news.Just looked in other folder, found a shipping notice
You order number is ~couple of hundred lower than mine so should be soon.......
Im not sure the order number is related to your actual reservation slot - could be based on when you ordered after getting the email notifying you that you can order. My order is 12878 but I reserved on March 18th so looks like Jan/Feb.Excellent news.
You order number is ~couple of hundred lower than mine so should be soon.......
Unless there is some highly unusual reason to deviate I imagine the order numbers are chronological (it simply makes sense). My order was placed between March 12th & March 16th according to the email I received.
The dates (ie a day or two after the poster quoted previously) and the relatively close order number suggest it shouldn't be too far away. But if this isn't the case, I ain't too troubled as my current setup makes decent ammo anyways (3 x sub 0.2MOA groups today at 100M & 300M).
Excellent! Mine as well. Only reason I want the V4 (already have a V3) is that it will make load development (testing different powders) a little easier.
My theory on the order numbers is that Adam sent a bunch of emails out on the same day for different slots. So if I happen to place my order before you, then my order number will be lower but not necessarily ship first. Who knows - like you, my current set up works and will be receiving mine sometime before the spring when I really need it. Im March 18th so am in the slot sometime after Jan.
