Barrel life on 338 LM

[Sako man]

So, just got my DTA 338 LM conversion. It's a little used, few hundred rounds. Wondering what the expected life on a 338 LM barrel is? Think I have as well 190 rounds down the pipe on my TRG. Can't imagine the DTA barrel and the TRG barrel being that different.

….granted I would probably run out of money feeding these things before they could possibly burn out

 

[sib1948]

I have 1500-2000 through my Barrett MRAD and am expecting 5-10,000. Still shooting 0.5 MOA easily. My DTA 338 barrel has about 200 rounds on it. Expect to get 5-10,000, but we'll see. I shoot 40-60 rounds about twice a week. Never believed in "safe queens".

 

[19Scout77]

OP. For most members of this site barrel life is hypothetical as a tiny fraction have ever actually had a rifle rebarrelled due to being shot out. It is generally relevant only in terms of resale value.

 

[sfogold]

Will depend greatly on the round (300gn-250gn) and load. I shot out the barrel on my AI AX-338 after about 2000 rounds using 250gn Lapua Scenars with an average speed of 3025fps (96gns of N570). In this case, "shot out" meant that the group opened up to about 1.5MOA to 2.0MOA. At 1000 yards, that was just not acceptable and thus replaced the barrel. I have heard of shooters getting 5000 rounds from theirs, but without load data, it is hard to say how hard the barrel was pushed.

 

[CoryT]

Typical life of a .338 is 2500 to perhaps 3000 rounds. A conventional threaded barrel may be able to be setback and rechambered to get another 1500 or so. If anyone gets to 5000 with a .338 that still shoots <1.5 MOA, I'd sure like to hear about it. Thinking you'll get to 10,000 is delusional at best.

Barrels are a consumable, like ammo. Given the cost of .338 LM, even reloaded, the cost of a barrel is only a fraction of the cost of the ammo you fired through it. When it stops shooting well, just get another.

For an even more depressing view of barrel life, consider this, it's real life span is about 5-10 seconds. That's the amount of time bullets spend actually travelling down the tube. The rest of the time it's idle, serving only as a weight (maybe some cardio value there as you carry it around).

 

[sib1948]

I appreciate this practical advice. I guess it really depends how hard you push the loads. However, I believe the MRAD has a chrome lined barrel, so would you expect it's longevity to be better?

 

[alan98]

I have 1250 through mine. Bartlein Barrel using 92.0 H1000 and 300 Bergers. Still shooting well under MOA at 1k. If I get to 2000 with it still shooting the groups I'm getting, I'll be happy. I never thought they would last too long, but mine keeps on rocking.

Alan

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

I appreciate this practical advice. I guess it really depends how hard you push the loads. However, I believe the MRAD has a chrome lined barrel, so would you expect it's longevity to be better?

Exactly, don't expect a non chrome lined barrel to last as long. The chrome lining will greatly enhance barrel life, but "can" suffer accuracy loss.

 

[RHunter]

Guns I have shot the barrels out of only suffered throat erosion issues from nuclear loads. (which I consider anything over 3000 FPS) They still shot OK but they were not as accurate as they were when I got them from the smith and that is the usual understanding by most shooters for being shot out. Throat erosion is the whole reason guys will have the barrels set back, to get the new chamber past the erosion and return the accuracy.

Rifling lasts a long long time. I have seen a 30 year old chrome lined .223 that easily had 25,000 rounds through it and the rifling still looked new. The accuracy just sucked. The guy had the barrel set back about a quarter inch and it shot like it was new again...

 

[19Scout77]

Recut the chamber in a chromelined barrel? Interesting...

 

[poison123]

Exactly, don't expect a non chrome lined barrel to last as long. The chrome lining will greatly enhance barrel life, but "can" suffer accuracy loss.

I'm *Pretty* sure the Mrad does not use a chrome lined barrel.

 

[Sako man]

I'm *Pretty* sure the Mrad does not use a chrome lined barrel.

I did have an FN SPR A3G that had a chrome lined barrel and the story FN tells is that the FBI had tested that particular weapon to 30k rounds with maintained accuracy. I would not be surprised if the MRAD was chrome lined, not sure on this however. But this would increase barrel life by a good stretch.

 

[RHunter]

Recut the chamber in a chromelined barrel? Interesting...

Probably not the best thing to do without a carbide reamer but I have seen it done.

 

[poison123]

I did have an FN SPR A3G that had a chrome lined barrel and the story FN tells is that the FBI had tested that particular weapon to 30k rounds with maintained accuracy. I would not be surprised if the MRAD was chrome lined, not sure on this however. But this would increase barrel life by a good stretch.

Please post up a link supporting the MRAD has a Chromelined barrel.

 

[Sako man]

Please post up a link supporting the MRAD has a Chromelined barrel.

Poison, im not the guy with the MRAD. Ask him to do it, perhaps read the entire thread. Im not sure if it's chrome lined? Just saying I wouldn't be surprised.

But, if you google the FN SPR A3G you will see that it has a chrome lined barrel. The FN is a very accurate rifle so some manufacturers have found ways to make chrome lined barrels accurate.

 

[agbm]

Guns I have shot the barrels out of only suffered throat erosion issues from nuclear loads. (which I consider anything over 3000 FPS) They still shot OK but they were not as accurate as they were when I got them from the smith and that is the usual understanding by most shooters for being shot out. Throat erosion is the whole reason guys will have the barrels set back, to get the new chamber past the erosion and return the accuracy.

Rifling lasts a long long time. I have seen a 30 year old chrome lined .223 that easily had 25,000 rounds through it and the rifling still looked new. The accuracy just sucked. The guy had the barrel set back about a quarter inch and it shot like it was new again...

If you get the chamber end of your barrel a little longer you could set the barrel back many times and get 5000 - 10000 rounds easy. Check out the picture of the 2 barrel contours being compared, mine will be close to the top barrel contour. First picture on left side of page.Raptor LRSS

 

[PittsDriver]

FWIW: The M107A1 is listed on Barrett's site as chrome lined. I'm not so sure about the MRAD. I didn't run into that information anywhere while doing research for my 338LM buy. They just refer to it as "precision grade".

 

[RHunter]

If you get the chamber end of your barrel a little longer you could set the barrel back many times and get 5000 - 10000 rounds easy.

Agreed.

Case and point, I usually get Remington Varmint contours for my 30 cal LR rifles and I can only set them back once because of the contour. It's kinda painful when you have a great barrel with a good load tuned to the barrels harmonics and you can not set it back again.

 

[Sako man]

FWIW: The M107A1 is listed on Barrett's site as chrome lined. I'm not so sure about the MRAD. I didn't run into that information anywhere while doing research for my 338LM buy. They just refer to it as "precision grade".

Im sure its a great barrel though. If you have ever looked up close at an MRAD it's an impressive piece of equipment. Lots of detail in the machining.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

I'm *Pretty* sure the Mrad does not use a chrome lined barrel.

I have no idea if it does or not. I was just talking about chrome lined vs. non chrome lined in general.

 

[Frank Green]

Exactly, don't expect a non chrome lined barrel to last as long. The chrome lining will greatly enhance barrel life, but "can" suffer accuracy loss.

Chrome plated bores don't last any longer overall vs. a non chrome plated bore. Also chrome plated bores typically give up accuracy a lot sooner. Once the chrome starts to crack and chip/flake out of the throat your accuracy goes almost with out warning.

If chrome plated bores lasted longer or were more accurate then you have to ask yourself this question. Why doesn't the gov't/military require the ammunition test barrels to have a chrome plated bore?

Also if the chrome plating is improperly done you can have adhesion problems as well as another common problem is the chrome plating will build up more at the breech end and muzzle end of the barrel. This will have a negative effect on accuracy as the bore of the barrel will not have a uniform size.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Frank Green]

Barrel life and accuracy? The first question you have to ask yourself is what is your accuracy requirement? If one guys accuracy requirement is .5 moa and the next guys accuracy requirement is 1-1.5moa will have a great impact on what to expect for barrel life. Also are you talking 10 shot groups for accuracy or 5 or 3 shot? How many rounds in between cleanings?

Shooting loads with double based powders will reduce barrel life. Also mentioned earlier are what types of bullets are you shooting? A 250gr. bullet will give you a little more barrel life than a 300gr. bullet will. The longer bullet will have a negative effect as to wearing the barrel out quicker.

For an average? I would say good accurate barrel life and the accuracy requirement being 1moa or less. The requirement being 5 shot groups and say putting 25 rounds thru the barrel at a time. I'm going to say between 2000-2500 rounds tops.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

Chrome plated bores don't last any longer overall vs. a non chrome plated bore. Also chrome plated bores typically give up accuracy a lot sooner. Once the chrome starts to crack and chip/flake out of the throat your accuracy goes almost with out warning.

If chrome plated bores lasted longer or were more accurate then you have to ask yourself this question. Why doesn't the gov't/military require the ammunition test barrels to have a chrome plated bore?

Also if the chrome plating is improperly done you can have adhesion problems as well as another common problem is the chrome plating will build up more at the breech end and muzzle end of the barrel. This will have a negative effect on accuracy as the bore of the barrel will not have a uniform size.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Shows how much I know Thanks for correcting me. So if that's the case, why are ANY barrels Chrome lined? Benefits?

 

[Frank Green]

Shows how much I know Thanks for correcting me. So if that's the case, why are ANY barrels Chrome lined? Benefits?

I think the original reason was to help with corrosion resistance with all the corrosive ammo but I don't see how it helps at all.

I know the British did a test when they were starting to switch they're weapons over from .303 Brit to 7.62 Nato. If I recall correctly they did the test on converted Bren guns to 7.62 Nato in the mid to late .50's or early '60's. I would have to go thru my stuff again to look it up exactly. They tested chrome plated bores and unplated bores. What I seen from the data and what was listed was barrel life and accuracy were basically a wash. I don't know how many barrels they tested etc....off hand. I know barrel life for Vickers belt fed guns was stated at like 12000 maybe 15k rounds for the .303 in the Vickers belt fed guns. The guns would still function and sling bullets but the barrels we're not considered safe for overhead fire in support of advancing infantry and the barrels were suppose to be pulled from service. When they did the test on the 7.62 Nato Bren guns they got about the same for barrel life again in the unplated and plated bores and the barrel life wasn't really any different then the Vickers guns.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[oathkeeper]

What about stainless steel? It is a little harder then the standard steel, excellent at not retaining heat and has a much higher corrosion resistance.

-Dick-

 

[sib1948]

Contacted Barrett and MRAD barrels are 416R stainless steel-not chrome lined. We'll see how many rounds I can get out of mine before accuracy starts to fade.

 

[bruddah]

This is the first time I've ever heard anybody say a chrome lined barrel won't last any longer than a standard.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

This is the first time I've ever heard anybody say a chrome lined barrel won't last any longer than a standard.

That's what I thought as well. But when Frank Green says so, I believe it!

 

[bruddah]

That's what I thought as well. But when Frank Green says so, I believe it!

I'm not disagreeing with him, just trying to understand why. In industry, hard chrome definitely decreases the speed and amount of wear on a metal surface. I have seen the difference with my own eyes as a machinist.

 

[Sako man]

Contacted Barrett and MRAD barrels are 416R stainless steel-not chrome lined. We'll see how many rounds I can get out of mine before accuracy starts to fade.

SS is a little softer than ChomeMolly steel, which is probably what you were thinking. Chromemolly is different than chrome lined. But I disagree, a chrome lined barrel is on average going to last longer than other types of barrels, chrome lining is incredibly hard. Either way I doubt your going to be able to shoot your 338 barrel out. For every sixty rounds of 308 I have shot, I have only shot about ten 338 rounds. It's not something I do all the time.

The intention of my OP was really to figure out if 338 had any particular characteristics that would make it burn out faster than some calibers.

 

[sib1948]

I definitely believe Frank Green, since he has first hand knowledge. It is what it is. I'll let you know when mine tank!

 

[Frank Green]

What about stainless steel? It is a little harder then the standard steel, excellent at not retaining heat and has a much higher corrosion resistance.

-Dick-

Not any harder. Our steel for both is spec. around 30rc when we order it.

If anything the c.m. is tougher than the s.s. and not the other way around. That is a old false wise tale that you get more barrel life out of s.s. I was told that by a shooter back when I started hi power matches in the late '80's and there is no truth to it.

Yes it has more corrosion resistance but will still corrode/pit. You still have to take care of it.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Frank Green]

I'm not disagreeing with him, just trying to understand why. In industry, hard chrome definitely decreases the speed and amount of wear on a metal surface. I have seen the difference with my own eyes as a machinist.

Yes I do agree chrome plating does/can help with wear etc...on the metal surface when it comes to machining etc...some of our tooling here is hard chrome plated.

You all have to keep in mind the heat, pressure, how the metal expands and how much when all of a sudden there is 60k of pressure etc...when the throat starts to crack and wear and you have that plating on the bore it will chip and flake/peel out. Call it what you will. That plating is very hard and will crack and chip easily and once it does.....problems.

Again the data I have doesn't show that they flat out last longer etc...until I see someone do actual controlled testing and keep variables as much as possible out of the equation/testing your gonna have a hard time to convince me other wise.

I won't say who the manufacturer is/was but just not to long ago they had a couple of runs (I'm not talking like 10 barrels it was like a 100 or more) of .30cal. barrels where the bores were chrome plated and the guns were giving up the accuracy in like less than 200 rounds. If I recall correctly it was an adhesion problem/the chrome plating in the bore.

I also look at it this way. It's another variable to contend with and if problems start to happen your trying to figure out what is going on.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[matt2143]

Yea FN spr barrels were going to hell in record time. At least FN stepped up and replaced those barrels. As a mechanic I use chrome plated hard use tools all the time. The reason we do not use chrome plated impact sockets is because of the fact chrome plating does not like impact and stretching. I had a coworker using a chrome plated socket on an impact gun running lug nuts off. The chrome peeled back and turned into a high speed blender blade and severely cut three fingers to the bone. It is very hard and durable until the surface cracks and delaminates. From what I understand, the art to it is keeping the plating extremely consistent thickness wise while ensuring proper adhesion to produce accurate plated barrels

 

[Sako man]

Yes I do agree chrome plating does/can help with wear etc...on the metal surface when it comes to machining etc...some of our tooling here is hard chrome plated.

You all have to keep in mind the heat, pressure, how the metal expands and how much when all of a sudden there is 60k of pressure etc...when the throat starts to crack and wear and you have that plating on the bore it will chip and flake/peel out. Call it what you will. That plating is very hard and will crack and chip easily and once it does.....problems.

Again the data I have doesn't show that they flat out last longer etc...until I see someone do actual controlled testing and keep variables as much as possible out of the equation/testing your gonna have a hard time to convince me other wise.

I won't say who the manufacturer is/was but just not to long ago they had a couple of runs (I'm not talking like 10 barrels it was like a 100 or more) of .30cal. barrels where the bores were chrome plated and the guns were giving up the accuracy in like less than 200 rounds. If I recall correctly it was an adhesion problem/the chrome plating in the bore.

I also look at it this way. It's another variable to contend with and if problems start to happen your trying to figure out what is going on.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Thanks for chiming in. It makes sense if you have material separation due to extreme pressures or poor plating adhesion. Good stuff.

 

[bruddah]

Yes I do agree chrome plating does/can help with wear etc...on the metal surface when it comes to machining etc...some of our tooling here is hard chrome plated.

You all have to keep in mind the heat, pressure, how the metal expands and how much when all of a sudden there is 60k of pressure etc...when the throat starts to crack and wear and you have that plating on the bore it will chip and flake/peel out. Call it what you will. That plating is very hard and will crack and chip easily and once it does.....problems.

Again the data I have doesn't show that they flat out last longer etc...until I see someone do actual controlled testing and keep variables as much as possible out of the equation/testing your gonna have a hard time to convince me other wise.

I won't say who the manufacturer is/was but just not to long ago they had a couple of runs (I'm not talking like 10 barrels it was like a 100 or more) of .30cal. barrels where the bores were chrome plated and the guns were giving up the accuracy in like less than 200 rounds. If I recall correctly it was an adhesion problem/the chrome plating in the bore.

I also look at it this way. It's another variable to contend with and if problems start to happen your trying to figure out what is going on.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Thanks for the input Frank.

 

[Alpine 338]

Barrel life and accuracy? The first question you have to ask yourself is what is your accuracy requirement? If one guys accuracy requirement is .5 moa and the next guys accuracy requirement is 1-1.5moa will have a great impact on what to expect for barrel life. Also are you talking 10 shot groups for accuracy or 5 or 3 shot? How many rounds in between cleanings?

Shooting loads with double based powders will reduce barrel life. Also mentioned earlier are what types of bullets are you shooting? A 250gr. bullet will give you a little more barrel life than a 300gr. bullet will. The longer bullet will have a negative effect as to wearing the barrel out quicker.

For an average? I would say good accurate barrel life and the accuracy requirement being 1moa or less. The requirement being 5 shot groups and say putting 25 rounds thru the barrel at a time. I'm going to say between 2000-2500 rounds tops.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

In your opinion, how much is barrel life reduced with double-based powder compared to single-based powders, is it significant? There's a leading powder manufacturer that claims their double-based powders don't increase barrel wear.

Also, when you compare a 250-gr bullet having less wear then a 300-gr bullet, I can plainly see how that would hold true if both bullets are traveling at the same speed or velocity, but typically a lighter bullet will travel much faster, inducing a higher wear rate, and I can assume that would offset the two wear factors (bearing surface vs. speed). Is that a safe assumption?

 

[Blackbrush]

And lighter bullets run larger powder payloads....

If I could indulge Frank further, what about the claims of Melonite/nitriding? I wish I went through enough barrels to generate statistically meaningful data.

 

[bruddah]

And lighter bullets run larger powder payloads....

If I could indulge Frank further, what about the claims of Melonite/nitriding? I wish I went through enough barrels to generate statistically meaningful data.

I'm also interested to hear about the melonited barrels vs longevity. I've read it last longer than chrome. (or at least that's the claim)

 

[Frank Green]

In your opinion, how much is barrel life reduced with double-based powder compared to single-based powders, is it significant? There's a leading powder manufacturer that claims their double-based powders don't increase barrel wear.

Also, when you compare a 250-gr bullet having less wear then a 300-gr bullet, I can plainly see how that would hold true if both bullets are traveling at the same speed or velocity, but typically a lighter bullet will travel much faster, inducing a higher wear rate, and I can assume that would offset the two wear factors (bearing surface vs. speed). Is that a safe assumption?

What powder manufacturer and which powder? First I've heard of it. 3 places out of several that we make ammunition test barrels for when we've gotten on the subject all have told me that the data they have the double base powders burn the barrels faster. I cannot put a number on it off hand. I don't have enough data.

Longer bullets vs. shorter bullets. Regardless of velocity the longer bearing surface of the longer bullet will wear the barrel faster. If you shoot 155gr. .308 bullets at 2900fps. and you also shoot 175gr. bullets at 2700fps. yes the 175's are going a little slower but not enough to make a difference but again the longer surface area will wear the barrel more quickly. No way around it.

Later, Frank

 

[Frank Green]

And lighter bullets run larger powder payloads....

If I could indulge Frank further, what about the claims of Melonite/nitriding? I wish I went through enough barrels to generate statistically meaningful data.

Right now from actual data that I have in my hands. The melonite treated barrels are lasting approx. double the life when it came to accuracy.

I do have a melonite treated barrel in .260Rem. on one of my guns but I'm no where near having it shot out.

Later, Frank

 

[Blackbrush]

So is that a Bartlein endorsement? Warranty issues? Who did your barrel please? Thank you much!

 

[bruddah]

Right now from actual data that I have in my hands. The melonite treated barrels are lasting approx. double the life when it came to accuracy.

I do have a melonite treated barrel in .260Rem. on one of my guns but I'm no where near having it shot out.

Later, Frank

That is good to know. I've got a couple different melonited barrels, and that is what they claimed as well.

 

[08GTCS]

Coming from not only a Barrett Armorer, but a MRAD owner, the MRADs are not chrome lined.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Barrett 98B.. 27” barrel….1/4 to1/2 moa rifle

H1000 and 300 Scenars …2108 rounds down the barrel
Accuracy still very good

Always was pushed hard, fairly hot load.
Worst case work load.. Ft. McCoy, WI. 43 rounds fired in a 6.5 minute course of fire.

Barrel checked and recorded 1/2/14, 38 thousands throat erosion from when new.


Cheers
oneshot.onehit