Barrel temperature ?

[Baddog 0302]

Do you worry about how hot your barrel gets ? The reason I ask is that the range ** I watched two shooters , both shooting 6 CM's, they would shoot 5 rounds in about 4 min. then one had an IR thermometer and he would check both barrels and they would also point to temperature strips on their barrels. They repeated the shoot, check barrel temperature two more times then put their rifles in the rack and got two more "toys".
So, my question is, is there a MAX barrel [at the chamber/throat area] temperature when you stop shooting and let your barrel cool ?

** ambient temperature was about 85*

 

[Bacarrat]

I shoot until I can't touch the barrel any longer. People should realize that a barrel is a consumable and enjoy shooting and not worry about a couple of degrees here or there.

 

[Jgault]

That sounds like a miserable way to spend a day at the range, I’ve never given the barrel temperature a second thought unless it’s to hot to hold.

 

[tmauto769]

If I remember right the paperwork that came with my MPA said do not exceed 122*F, it came with one of those temp stickers on it as well.

 

[Supersubes]

If I remember right the paperwork that came with my MPA said do not exceed 122*F, it came with one of those temp stickers on it as well.

That would mean if you weren't in the shade on a sunny day, you couldn't shoot the rifle at all, since it would already exceed that temp before the first shot is fired.

Too hot to hold is around 130-140. Quite cool in my opinion. Just shoot, let the target tell you if the barrel is too hot.

 

[Ledzep]

When I can't see through the heat waves.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

spit on it, if it sizzles let it cool.

 

[Baron23]

Perhaps they were just playing around collecting data w someone’s new IR thermo?

 

[Gohring65]

I just shoot five rounds and let it cool for 10 minutes. I take 4-6 rifles with me to range so I can cycle thru them and never stop shooting.
A AR 15 and a 308 bolt gun are great for high volume shooting and not worrying about barrel life. So if someone has a barrel burner they should have one of them with them to fill in while the barrel burner cools, especially if you’re paying by the hour to be at the range.

 

[Baddog 0302]

The problem with "to hot to hold" is that where you grab the barrel is a bit of a distance from the chamber/throat area. Maybe to hot to keep a finger in that area would be better.
Consumables, true, but do you have $ 600.00 + laying around for a premium barrel, maybe $ 450.00+ for a Criterion or other mid lever barrels ?
It's nice to live vicariously through someone else's bank account, for me, it's easier to take another rifle , even my 10-22 to shoot while the others cool.

 

[spife7980]

At a match you may not be able to get away with it due to time constraints but a cool barrel certainly isn’t going to shoot worse or erode out faster than a scalding hot barrel will.

I stick one of these in there whenever I can to help keep its temps down.

 

[Supersubes]

The problem with "to hot to hold" is that where you grab the barrel is a bit of a distance from the chamber/throat area. Maybe to hot to keep a finger in that area would be better.
Consumables, true, but do you have $ 600.00 + laying around for a premium barrel, maybe $ 450.00+ for a Criterion or other mid lever barrels ?
It's nice to live vicariously through someone else's bank account, for me, it's easier to take another rifle , even my 10-22 to shoot while the others cool.

Were you “asking for a friend” in your OP? It sounds like youre one of the two shooters you mentioned.

 

[Bacarrat]

The problem with "to hot to hold" is that where you grab the barrel is a bit of a distance from the chamber/throat area. Maybe to hot to keep a finger in that area would be better.
Consumables, true, but do you have $ 600.00 + laying around for a premium barrel, maybe $ 450.00+ for a Criterion or other mid lever barrels ?
It's nice to live vicariously through someone else's bank account, for me, it's easier to take another rifle , even my 10-22 to shoot while the others cool.

In this hobby, we plan for rebarreling at one point if we are shooting enough. Just like how I planned on having a lot of components to reload way ahead of time.

 

[DIBBS]

At a match you may not be able to get away with it due to time constraints but a cool barrel certainly isn’t going to shoot worse or erode out faster than a scalding hot barrel will.

I stick one of these in there whenever I can to help keep its temps down.
View attachment 7864924

@spife7980 what are we looking at?

 

[spife7980]

@spife7980 what are we looking at?

Chamber chiller
Little fan with batteries on top.
Blows ambient air down the bore to help cool it inside out as well.

It’s been smashed and jbwelded and superglued back together a few times.

 

[Gohring65]

In this hobby, we plan for rebarreling at one point if we are shooting enough. Just like how I planned on having a lot of components to reload way ahead of time.

Why would anyone deliberately accelerate barrel wear at the range practicing? We all plan on rebarreling, but I’m not going to speed up the process for no reason. Why would anyone do that.

 

[Bacarrat]

Why would anyone deliberately accelerate barrel wear at the range practicing? We all plan on rebarreling, but I’m not going to speed up the process for no reason. Why would anyone do that.

Why shoot at all then? I'm going to shoot at the rate I want and not worry about barrel wear because it's going to wear out at one point. I rather enjoy shooting then worrying about it.

 

[Pharmseller]

Carry a rectal thermometer with you at all times.

It’s multi-purpose.

 

[Gohring65]

Why shoot at all then? I'm going to shoot at the rate I want and not worry about barrel wear because it's going to wear out at one point. I rather enjoy shooting then worrying about it.

Several reasons for not shooting hot.
But a couple important ones for me is, throat erosion and groups opening up.
There is absolutely no benefit in precision with a hot barrel. If I go to the range and burn thru 100 rounds with a hot barrel, I’d be rebarreling once a month.

 

[tuckybill]

Hammer forged barrels will wander all over the target when hot compared to the cooler first shots. That has been my experience. One reason you see no hammer forged barrels at any match being used by serious shooters. Maybe they were testing that theory out.

Years ago Sako used Lothar Walter button rifled barrels on their 6MM PPC rifles because they coudln't get the results they needed from their own hammer forged barrels though the course of a match. Hammered barrels are good for hunting where you just shoot one or two shots but for range time you have to really let them cool if they start to warm up. A fat varmint stays cool much longer than a sporter type.

 

[Bacarrat]

Several reasons for not shooting hot.
But a couple important ones for me is, throat erosion and groups opening up.
There is absolutely no benefit in precision with a hot barrel. If I go to the range and burn thru 100 rounds with a hot barrel, I’d be rebarreling once a month.

If you think so. If you have a shit barrel maybe. I have done load workups with around 40-50 rounds in about 30 minutes, and have shot really tight groups at the end of the test session. This has been done on multiple calibers and multiple barrels. But if you want to waste time and let it cool down to ambient, you do you.

 

[Gohring65]

If you think so. If you have a shit barrel maybe. I have done load workups with around 40-50 rounds in about 30 minutes, and have shot really tight groups at the end of the test session. This has been done on multiple calibers and multiple barrels. But if you want to waste time and let it cool down to ambient, you do you.

Mmm-k I will.
Wasting time is rebarreling every other month waiting on the smith to chamber and set headspace or waiting on the barrel to be cut at the manufacturer, then start over with load development. I can shoot and let it cool, get on a barrel wait list, get the barrel and after a year or two schedule the replacement with my smith, and not have wasted any time at all.

 

[pineoak]

Drives some guys nuts at my range, but on hot days... without a barrel cooler the chamber and can just don't cool down.

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[theLBC]

obviously several schools of thought and probably no "wrong" answers.
i am a poor, but shoot and wait is not a hobby i want and neither is a rifle rotation.
i run a gas gun in preparation for "zombies" so my use case is completely different than prs or elr shooters that focuses on small groups on paper.
that said, i don't have problems hitting steel out to 800 yards from a 20" chrome-lined hammer forged fn barrel without worrying about how many shots i have already taken. i would consider my rifle a piece of crap if that was the case...
but then i am not dumping mags very often either, unless the real zombies show up*.

* or i get rich

 

[spife7980]

I just hating wondering why my 6.5 creed is done at 1800 rounds or my 6xc at 1200.

I’ve gone from one trainer rifle to two so that I don’t have to swap those barrels prematurely too.

 

[kthomas]

I try not to get them too hot - but I don't have any specific way to quantify exactly how hot, and what's the threshold for "too hot" anyways?

I usually bring two rifles to the range, usually a .308 and 6BRA or 6.5 Creedmoor. I'll shoot ~3 5-round groups with one, and at that point I'll take a break, swap to the other rifle, do some dry firing and then more live fire.

I'm not going to pretend that if I had an IR heat gun I would know the temperature in which the threshold has been reached and I have to change guns. I don't think there's a magic number, so getting that level of resolution on temperature is a bit overkill in my mind.

If I'm worried about it, I'll touch around the barrel from the chamber to the muzzle to feel how hot the rifle is. Completely unscientific. If I think it feels too hot (again, very unscientific and subjective), I let it rest.

 

[Supersubes]

Why would anyone deliberately accelerate barrel wear at the range practicing? We all plan on rebarreling, but I’m not going to speed up the process for no reason. Why would anyone do that?

Deliberately accelerate, or just shooting as much as necessary? The shooting hot/barrel wear claims are anecdotal at best imo. The snipers hide way of loading two grains over max is whats doing it.

 

[acudaowner]

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and some plastic hose totally worth it unlike that chamber chiller with 1/8 the air being moved and double the cost .
pump on amazon hose might be I already had mine . but the easies and cheapest method of keeping your barrel cool is not to get it too hot to begin with .

 

[cas6969]

I've been using an IR thermometer on my rifles a bit lately, mostly because there's one in the vehicle I take to the range. I started doing it with one particular rifle because it was walking the POI when it heated up, and I was curious if I could find the point at which is started.
The most recent time was because I was having trouble focusing on the target. Since I'm having vision issues as of late, and it's been a long time since I had to deal with heat mirage, I assumed it was my eyes. When the "Duh" light bulb went off over my head, I got the thermometer to see at what temps the mirage was starting to be an issue. Also started comparing heating of extruded powders vs ball powder. I also found where the barrel heated the most interesting, I assumed it would be closer to the throat, but it was in fact about mid barrel. Never stop learning, even if it that's the only purpose it serves.

My old Jeep will need a new engine in the future, it's just a fact. So why change the oil or use coolant.

 

[moosemeat]

I do 35 round strings for score at one local match once a month. Have been for 7 years. Get as many x at the end as at the beginning.
I dont try to abuse my rifle or its barrel. I use it.
The jeep oil thing is misleading. If you said you wouldn't drive it on hot days over 65 that would be more accurate.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Do you worry about how hot your barrel gets ? The reason I ask is that the range ** I watched two shooters , both shooting 6 CM's, they would shoot 5 rounds in about 4 min. then one had an IR thermometer and he would check both barrels and they would also point to temperature strips on their barrels. They repeated the shoot, check barrel temperature two more times then put their rifles in the rack and got two more "toys".
So, my question is, is there a MAX barrel [at the chamber/throat area] temperature when you stop shooting and let your barrel cool ?

** ambient temperature was about 85*

Just dumb

 

[Jmkjr87]

When I practice for prs I shoot my rifle just like I would at a match. I shoot 10 or 12 round stage, 90 or 105 second par times and I go to it. I'll usually burn up 50 to 100 rounds when I shoot for practice. I shoot 10 rounds and give it 5 to 10 mins in the shade but on a hot day the barrel really doesn't cool down, but either way a barrel is a consumable and I rebarrel ever year. If last years barrel is still good I will use it for practice if not the match barrel gets used for practice. This Fudd nonsense of checking Temps with a IR thermometer and firing 3 shots then putting your rifle in your air conditioner truck because of MUH throat erosion is just stupidity. Stop being poor

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Chamber chiller
Little fan with batteries on top.
Blows ambient air down the bore to help cool it inside out as well.

It’s been smashed and jbwelded and superglued back together a few times.
View attachment 7865008

How much faster does it cool it down? I typically wait 6 min between groups when doing testing, otherwise the I only worry about if it's Messing up my site picture and I can't mag down much more

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Deliberately accelerate, or just shooting as much as necessary? The shooting hot/barrel wear claims are anecdotal at best imo. The snipers hide way of loading two grains over max is whats doing it.

For some reason people seem to not realize most max loads in manuals are indeed very close or at SAAMI max pressure.

A lot of people would be surprised if they actually pressure tested their 6 dasher and 6bra 26” barrels running 2950.

 

[spife7980]

How much faster does it cool it down? I typically wait 6 min between groups when doing testing, otherwise the I only worry about if it's Messing up my site picture and I can't mag down much more

I haven’t quantified it other than it’s appreciably faster than without. Especially if you get it hot enough for mirage to be an issue.
One barrel with it and one without it will be quite noticeable if I don’t swap and share it between the two between strings.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I haven’t quantified it other than it’s appreciably faster than without. Especially if you get it hot enough for mirage to be an issue.
One barrel with it and one without it will be quite noticeable if I don’t swap and share it between the two between strings.

I've thought about getting one several times just to make testing go faster. Shooting 10 sets waiting 6 min between sets , plus all the other crap it takes a long time.

 

[iceng]

Just follow the teenageer willy rule.

Dont touch it if you cant touch it with your willy. Its simple, universal, and works.

 

[spife7980]

I've thought about getting one several times just to make testing go faster. Shooting 10 sets waiting 6 min between sets , plus all the other crap it takes a long time.

Do it. The chamber chiller might be a bit more fragile but he’s sent me new pieces when the 3d printed stuff breaks (like when a cousin drops an ar10 bolt carrier release on it…) but it’s only 5% as annoying sounding as a riflekuhl noisy cricket and you can even get usb rechargeable now vs my AAs.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Do it. The chamber chiller might be a bit more fragile but he’s sent me new pieces when the 3d printed stuff breaks (like when a cousin drops an ar10 bolt carrier release on it…) but it’s only 5% as annoying sounding as a riflekuhl noisy cricket and you can even get usb rechargeable now.

Is that the best one to get? "Chamber chiller"? I've only ever seen the riflekuhl one

 

[spife7980]

Is that the best one to get? "Chamber chiller"? I've only ever seen the riflekuhl one

They were sponsoring my first match and so that’s who I went with first. There are several variations out there. I prefer it to the riflekuhl 100 to 1. The riflekuhl is sooooo damn annoying.

 

[kthomas]

For some reason people seem to not realize most max loads in manuals are indeed very close or at SAAMI max pressure.

A lot of people would be surprised if they actually pressure tested their 6 dasher and 6bra 26” barrels running 2950.

It doesn't help that BR based cartridges hide pressure signs really well.

 

[RUTGERS95]

At a match you may not be able to get away with it due to time constraints but a cool barrel certainly isn’t going to shoot worse or erode out faster than a scalding hot barrel will.

I stick one of these in there whenever I can to help keep its temps down.
View attachment 7864924

What is that.
Disregard, read further. Thx

 

[Gohring65]

Deliberately accelerate, or just shooting as much as necessary? The shooting hot/barrel wear claims are anecdotal at best imo. The snipers hide way of loading two grains over max is whats doing it.

I don’t know about that.
I’ve personally seen someone roach a 300 rum barrel in 600 rounds by running it hot, when most see 1000 rounds before accuracy suffers.
Ask any barrel manufacturer what causes barrel wear. They’ll tell you heat. Ask them what helps and they’ll tell you letting it cool between groups. They sell barrels and will still tell you that.
Some will get more specific, they tell you X number of rounds in a competition setting, and Xx number of rounds in a hunting rig with the same cartridge. It all has to do with heat and rounds fired.
There’s probably a hundred years of data out there on barrel heat, round count and throat erosion.

 

[cas6969]

A lot of people would be surprised if they actually pressure tested their 6 dasher and 6bra 26” barrels running 2950.

No, no, no, they know how to read pressure signs.

 

[Supersubes]

E

I don’t know about that.
I’ve personally seen someone roach a 300 rum barrel in 600 rounds by running it hot, when most see 1000 rounds before accuracy suffers.
Ask any barrel manufacturer what causes barrel wear. They’ll tell you heat. Ask them what helps and they’ll tell you letting it cool between groups. They sell barrels and will still tell you that.
Some will get more specific, they tell you X number of rounds in a competition setting, and Xx number of rounds in a hunting rig with the same cartridge. It all has to do with heat and rounds fired.
There’s probably a hundred years of data out there on barrel heat, round count and throat erosion.

You’d have to isolate just how much chamber pressure he was running to make any definitive statement about whether it was shooting hot or loading hot that killed it. The 300 RUM is a barrel torching monster to begin with. Its easy to reason out that more heat is bad, just how bad is mostly a guess though.

 

[308pirate]

Why would anyone deliberately accelerate barrel wear at the range practicing? We all plan on rebarreling, but I’m not going to speed up the process for no reason. Why would anyone do that.

It depends what you are using or plan to use the rifle for.

Some shooting sports have rapid or sustained rates of fire. Sometimes with little to no time for the rifle to cool down between strings. How do you practice that?

 

[308pirate]

I don’t know about that.
I’ve personally seen someone roach a 300 rum barrel in 600 rounds by running it hot, when most see 1000 rounds before accuracy suffers.
Ask any barrel manufacturer what causes barrel wear. They’ll tell you heat. Ask them what helps and they’ll tell you letting it cool between groups. They sell barrels and will still tell you that.
Some will get more specific, they tell you X number of rounds in a competition setting, and Xx number of rounds in a hunting rig with the same cartridge. It all has to do with heat and rounds fired.
There’s probably a hundred years of data out there on barrel heat, round count and throat erosion.

Um, how about you worry about your rifles and stop paying attention what others do or why?

Unless you're paying for someone else's barrels, never mind them.

 

[308pirate]

The shooting hot/barrel wear claims are anecdotal at best imo. The snipers hide way of loading two grains over max is whats doing it.

Um....no

Heat checking/cracking is a real thing, and not just in rifle throats. The same exact failure mode is present in high pressure die cast tooling particularly when being injected with metals that have a higher melting point like copper and its alloys.

Heat, not pressure, kills barrels. Unless your put so much more pressure in it that you exceed the elastic deformation limit. Then yes, pressure kills barrels.

 

[Gohring65]

Um, how about you worry about your rifles and stop paying attention what others do or why?

Unless you're paying for someone else's barrels, never mind them.

Am I missing something?
Or is this a conversation about barrel heat. What do you think the thread is about?

 

[Gohring65]

It depends what you are using or plan to use the rifle for.

Some shooting sports have rapid or sustained rates of fire. Sometimes with little to no time for the rifle to cool down between strings. How do you practice that?

I said deliberately accelerate it, if your comp discipline calls for it, you’re not deliberately accelerating it, you’re going to have to shoot hot.