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Big fella, a yes or no question is asked in a room of 30 people. You are the only person to raise their hand when asked if yes is the answer, 29 others say no...... Doesn't mean you are wrong, BUT you should probably seriously consider that as the most likely result and consider the fuck out of your reasoning before continually backing yourself.OK, let's resort to name calling and other insults. All of you that are naysayers, you have forgotten something that you were probably once taught, just because you disagree with someone doesn't necessarily make that person wrong. You need to sit back and listen and learn. You claim to be shooters, yet, you don't seem to care about or understand the science of shooting.
You can say that I'm going in circles, but, not one of you have offered any other explanation for your beliefs other than quality means more than weight. If you could give just one explanation other than my writing is incomprehensible.
Sounds to me like you are the victims, victims of falling for the marketing hype of barrel manufacturers. Less stress in a material doesn't change its specific heat. And there is no process that can magically make it so.
I was trying to help you understand a principle that, to me, is extremely simple. I offered it in hopes that you would use the information to improve your game.
If you want to refuse to accept an argument that was actually presented with some actual scientific principles and simple analogies, then that is fine. Again, that doesn't necessarily make me wrong.
As far as my cleaver snips, it was only because I didn't want to return your snips by referring to you as world class, close minded assholes, which is exactly what you are being.
Late … but I found this thread researching heat not for the topic of barrel life but more for velocity and better forecasting cold bore POI vs running a stages during a hot active day or PRS.
Something stuck in my head a few weeks ago, was shooting w my kid the day before a match to check some speeds snd noticed our shot string increased velocity from shot 1 to shot 10 or so. It was 80 degrees outside.
I just want to be able to be able to forcast my elevation on a cold bore shot vs once I got the barrel hot. I’m considering using my barrel temperate in my velocity calculations on StrelokPro instead of just using air temperature in enviromentals.
If it’s 80 degrees outside and my cold bore shoots 2800 fps, I would like to know what’s going to happen to my velocity when that barrel starts cooking to 130 degrees. I’m thinking to leave the 80 degrees in the environment calculator for air density, however, I might try increasing muzzle velocity inputs as my barrel starts to resemble a furnace.
An IR laser thermometer might really help understand muzzle velocity better so you can get better forecasting and powder sensitivity.
I think the Mile to Matches podcast covered this around ep16… good stuffLate … but I found this thread researching heat not for the topic of barrel life but more for velocity and better forecasting cold bore POI vs running a stages during a hot active day or PRS.
Something stuck in my head a few weeks ago, was shooting w my kid the day before a match to check some speeds snd noticed our shot string increased velocity from shot 1 to shot 10 or so. It was 80 degrees outside.
I just want to be able to be able to forcast my elevation on a cold bore shot vs once I got the barrel hot. I’m considering using my barrel temperate in my velocity calculations on StrelokPro instead of just using air temperature in enviromentals.
If it’s 80 degrees outside and my cold bore shoots 2800 fps, I would like to know what’s going to happen to my velocity when that barrel starts cooking to 130 degrees. I’m thinking to leave the 80 degrees in the environment calculator for air density, however, I might try increasing muzzle velocity inputs as my barrel starts to resemble a furnace.
An IR laser thermometer might really help understand muzzle velocity better so you can get better forecasting and powder sensitivity.
Here is 20-30 shot string in 5-10 minutes. I ran my scope from 200-1000 back to 100 to check zero with a HOT barrel. Not bad for an off the shelf Ruger RPR with a can. 5 shots.Again, you are not correct.
I have been shooting for quite some time and had hundreds, possibly more conversations on why to use what.
Not a single one has ever, ever been about barrel temp and long shot strings with more or less barrel mass.
Guys were shooting 20 shot string stages at rifles only 20 years ago with non truck axle barrels. An m24 at the time was considered very large for a practical rifle.
You are absolutely making assumptions based on what you feel is fact. You are correct that more mass = more shots to heat up.
You are incorrect that precision/accuracy will degrade in 20 rounds or less on a stage to necessitate the larger mass barrel.
This isn’t 1995. If your barrel can’t handle 20 rounds without accuracy/precision degradation, it’s garbage. And there is no reason needed to run them in PRS for that reason.
We are running large barrels for weight. For the balance and recoil mitigation.
You are as far off as you can be.
A scary topic and some heated points of view.Let’s cut out all the “I think” stuff.
Who here has a non junk barrel of any contour, be it the thinnest or a 1.25” or larger straight taper that consistently has decreased accuracy and/or precision over the course of a 20-30 shot string?? As far as practical stuff. I’m not talking a .2 BR rifle shooting .45 now and not being able to win a BR match.
And, if so, who has one that continued to do so after the installation of a mirage shield or band?
Not talking throat wear/erosion. That’s a separate convo.
Anyone at all? If so, post the details and the pics and such. I’d seriously love to see it. As I’ve yet to find any decent barrel not able to handle the shot strings typically considered “normal” for our purposes. And by that, I mean none that did and were held as acceptable by the manufacturer.
Any that did show any issues were promptly replaced by the respective manufacturer as that shouldn’t happen.
I think the Mile to Matches podcast covered this around ep16… good stuff
Beware, on a polished barrel, an IR temp reading can vary quite a bit depending on lighting conditions.
Not sure if this response is to me... never said anything about 100-200 shot strings. But I certainly think 20-40shot strings with a caliber over 6mm or sub 3kfps is a fair goal. I also think more than 3rounds or 8 rounds is required. As in holding a group size, group location, low extended SD's... and actually I think if we can solve 100+shot strings other issues will be solved also. I would not consider a TRG-42, agreed older (2002), a junk gun, but on its best day the stock barrel does not hold a candle to our tech as the round count goes up- as in 8,9 ,10... To your point- and I am not taking away from it- a huge percentage of shooters are more than happy with 3-5shots. Not an issue with that stance. Others... if my life depends on it I will want a system that can deliver precise rounds for as long as I need it too...I might be out of line here, but 100 or 200 yard shot strings are not going to prove anything in regards to an increase of 50 fps due to higher barrel temperatures.
I was referring to the groups at 100 and 200 yards , not shot counts. I was responding to all the pictures of group sizes and I’m not sure what those can teach us about muzzle velocity if they are taken at such short distances.Not sure if this response is to me... never said anything about 100-200 shot strings. But I certainly think 20-40shot strings with a caliber over 6mm or sub 3kfps is a fair goal. I also think more than 3rounds or 8 rounds is required. As in holding a group size, group location, low extended SD's... and actually I think if we can solve 100+shot strings other issues will be solved also. I would not consider a TRG-42, agreed older (2002), a junk gun, but on its best day the stock barrel does not hold a candle to our tech as the round count goes up- as in 8,9 ,10... To your point- and I am not taking away from it- a huge percentage of shooters are more than happy with 3-5shots. Not an issue with that stance. Others... if my life depends on it I will want a system that can deliver precise rounds for as long as I need it too...
To that I am absolutely in agreement. To a certain range velocity is king. Gravity is the over-riding input. To your point creating a "zero" on a system in which the intersecting lines of bore height and line of sight within given distances in my mind can create error- including hiding velocity issues. Do an exercise on a ballistic solver. Plot +/-10yds or meters from a 100yd zero and see the small variation that occurs over blank yards distance. The variation might well be within the standard accuracy of your platform. Now apply a +/-10yd zero to a 100yd (example) sight in and see were the rounds go as the distance increases. While we zero at 200m (down side has started) we also recognize the need to really isolate the platform from the shooter. Solid rifle, solid shooter, good trigger pull- consistency. While everybody might not have $800+ in rifle platform rest components- a shot group of 10 or more should start producing a true group and true sight in value for the optic.I was referring to the groups at 100 and 200 yards , not shot counts. I was responding to all the pictures of group sizes and I’m not sure what those can teach us about muzzle velocity if they are taken at such short distances.
Thanks Op