Rifle Scopes Beat my Leica's Low Light Performance and Weight

[107driver]

Hello All,
I love my Leica Magnus 1.8-12x50i for its low light performance--side by side it beat my buddy's Swaro. The only thing I don't like is the simple reticle with no holdover marks. I am looking for something to top a Seekins Havak Element 6.5 PRC, and wondering if you experts can recommend something that would be:

• Lighter than the 24.7 oz Leica
• Equal or better low-light ability
• More reticle options
• Approximately 3-18x or higher magnification
• Cost around $2500? I have some flex here.

Thank you for your expertise and advice,
--Matt

 

[ma smith]

Here's a thread with a good discussion.

Rifle Scopes - ZCO 2-16

When is ZCO going to make a scope similar in size and zoom to a NX8. Something like a 30mm 2-12 or 2-16?

www.snipershide.com

 

[107driver]

Hej MA Smith, interesting discussion there but it mainly seemed like a wish list for manufactures to produce the ideal MPVO. A worthy endeavor to be sure, but being the impatient cranky type I am hoping for an immediate solution.

 

[ALShooter]

Bullet points 1 & 2 pretty much close the door. The Magnus is one of the best low light scopes out there..

 

[SniperBro]

Did someone say @lowlight?

 

[WB300]

I missed the boat on the Magnus. Looked through a few and WOW! Discontinued and near impossible to find.

 

[Glassaholic]

Hello All,
I love my Leica Magnus 1.8-12x50i for its low light performance--side by side it beat my buddy's Swaro. The only thing I don't like is the simple reticle with no holdover marks. I am looking for something to top a Seekins Havak Element 6.5 PRC, and wondering if you experts can recommend something that would be:

• Lighter than the 24.7 oz Leica
• Equal or better low-light ability
• More reticle options
• Approximately 3-18x or higher magnification
• Cost around $2500? I have some flex here.

Thank you for your expertise and advice,
--Matt

Don't really do the SFP thing anymore so if you'd consider FFP (which adds a little weight) then the TT315M has no peer at 27oz, I know you mentioned $2500 with some flex, give @MOUNTIC a shout. If you only want SFP then I'll have to defer to others, ILya (@koshkin) would be a good resource as I know he too loves the Magnus scopes.

Maybe the new Schmidt & Bender 3-18x42, but 42mm will limit low light performance. I am very excited about the new Steiner T6Xi 3-18x56 but at 34.4 oz this is way above your weight limit. Years ago I had a limit of 30oz for my crossover scopes, but I've changed that to 35oz and it's opened up a lot more doors.

 

[Just Macca]

The Blaser 2.8-20x50 jumped to mind - which is at 27oz with a rail (so minus rings from the weight equation). But it has a simple duplex unfortunately. Everything else is top tier though and if it had even a basic reticle with bask marks I’d have one.

The Tangent Theta Hunter at 26.98oz is as close to perfection as it gets.

I also really like my 21.7oz Vortex LHT 4.5-22, but that’s a divisive scope for some. Mines held zero superbly and aside from some lacklustre controls, I’m happy.

 

[107driver]

Don't really do the SFP thing anymore so if you'd consider FFP (which adds a little weight) then the TT315M has no peer at 27oz, I know you mentioned $2500 with some flex, give @MOUNTIC a shout. If you only want SFP then I'll have to defer to others, ILya (@koshkin) would be a good resource as I know he too loves the Magnus scopes.

Maybe the new Schmidt & Bender 3-18x42, but 42mm will limit low light performance. I am very excited about the new Steiner T6Xi 3-18x56 but at 34.4 oz this is way above your weight limit. Years ago I had a limit of 30oz for my crossover scopes, but I've changed that to 35oz and it's opened up a lot more doors.

Thank you! I’m open to FFP but not sure I would benefit if I’m not using it to estimate range.

 

[Glassaholic]

Thank you! I’m open to FFP but not sure I would benefit if I’m not using it to estimate range.

If you ever miss and see your hit, it is the perfect ruler right in front of you

 

[UNRL Ghandi]

I'm looking for a similar scope. I have the Zeiss V8 1.8-14x and it is awesome but it's a bit bulky and the reticle is just a duplex style. The illumination is awesome though and the magnification range is perfect for my hunting environment. Really hoping Zeiss adds a subtended reticle at some point to their V8 line.

I am currently looking at the March 1.5-15x. It looks promising with the MTR-4 reticle except I don't like how the reticle subtends at 10x and not 15x but it's probably the best one I've found for the lightweight hunter .308 I'm building. 21.5 oz and only 10.6 inches long.

 

[107driver]

If you ever miss and see your hit, it is the perfect ruler right in front of you

Aaaaand my ignorance rears it’s head again.

 

[Glassaholic]

Aaaaand my ignorance rears it’s head again.

Try not to think of mil or moa reticles as “ranging” systems but rather measuring systems. You make your adjustments and hold POA on target, take the shot and notice your POI was .6 mil lower than your POA, you could dial this on your turret or even faster, you just hold over the appropriate value (the ruler in front of you), I think I have some images or diagrams that might help but I’ll have to dig those up. In the same way you keep your scope at zero (no turret adjustment) and you use your LRF and see your target is 427 yards, your ballistic program says that is 3.2 mils based on your cartridge and atmospherics, you can now place the reticle 3.2 mils high, center crosshair will be above your target and the hash mark for 3.2 mils will now be on target. Same thing for wind, you hold your wind using the reticle hash marks. This is where tree reticles can come from n handy. Some SFP scopes have mil or moa hash mark reticles, but they are calibrated only at a certain magnification so if you’re off on mag and you hold what you think is the proper mil/moa value it will be wrong. This is part of the big advantage of FFP reticles, they are always calibrated regardless of magnification.

 

[Philys21]

it doesn’t check all your boxes but I’m very impressed with my S&B T96.

 

[107driver]

Try not to think of mil or moa reticles as “ranging” systems but rather measuring systems. You make your adjustments and hold POA on target, take the shot and notice your POI was .6 mil lower than your POA, you could dial this on your turret or even faster, you just hold over the appropriate value (the ruler in front of you), I think I have some images or diagrams that might help but I’ll have to dig those up. In the same way you keep your scope at zero (no turret adjustment) and you use your LRF and see your target is 427 yards, your ballistic program says that is 3.2 mils based on your cartridge and atmospherics, you can now place the reticle 3.2 mils high, center crosshair will be above your target and the hash mark for 3.2 mils will now be on target. Same thing for wind, you hold your wind using the reticle hash marks. This is where tree reticles can come from n handy. Some SFP scopes have mil or moa hash mark reticles, but they are calibrated only at a certain magnification so if you’re off on mag and you hold what you think is the proper mil/moa value it will be wrong. This is part of the big advantage of FFP reticles, they are always calibrated regardless of magnification.

Thank you. Super clear explanation. Definitely makes me lean towards the FFP.

 

[Mbaysinger89]

Thank you. Super clear explanation. Definitely makes me lean towards the FFP.

There are only 2 downsides to FFP reticles. I think you need all the information, not just the good parts. On low power, usually between 3-6x most reticles will be unusable in lowlight hunting situations. Illumination helps that alot, but you lose your fine aiming point. The other side of that are FFP reticles that are usable at low power are generally very thick at the top of the magnification range.

I have both SFP and FFP for different purposes. If you want better lowlight performance than the Magnus you're going to have to shell out some money. Its some of the best glass out there. If you want holdovers thats great, but personally dialing for elevation is easier than memorizing dope for using hold overs for a hunting rifle.

 

[Pronghunter]

Thread is a year old, but I just finished a VERY long winded hunting season. Some may be interested is only reason for bringing the thread to life.
I have a Swaro Z6i 2.15x56 (sent in for repairs ) a S&B Polar 4-16 and have two Magnus. 2.3-16x56 and a 1.8-12x50.

I can tell you without any question that both Magnus are absolute gems. Better resolution, but its low light ability cannot be beat. The Polar was close and one really had to pay careful attention to see the difference, but where the Magnus showed just how well it was at dark was it’s ability to still show color of leaves, bushes grass etc. when the other two could not. Why on earth Leica discontinued the Magnus in the US is beyond me. The only other Optic I’d like to compare it to would be a Swaro Z8i, but I just can’t imagine it being better.

 

[Glassaholic]

Thread is a year old, but I just finished a VERY long winded hunting season. Some may be interested is only reason for bringing the thread to life.
I have a Swaro Z6i 2.15x56 (sent in for repairs ) a S&B Polar 4-16 and have two Magnus. 2.3-16x56 and a 1.8-12x50.

I can tell you without any question that both Magnus are absolute gems. Better resolution, but its low light ability cannot be beat. The Polar was close and one really had to pay careful attention to see the difference, but where the Magnus showed just how well it was at dark was it’s ability to still show color of leaves, bushes grass etc. when the other two could not. Why on earth Leica discontinued the Magnus in the US is beyond me. The only other Optic I’d like to compare it to would be a Swaro Z8i, but I just can’t imagine it being better.

Apparently Leica is still making the Magnus but not importing them to the US, only available outside the US market

 

[Charger442]

Thread is a year old, but I just finished a VERY long winded hunting season. Some may be interested is only reason for bringing the thread to life.
I have a Swaro Z6i 2.15x56 (sent in for repairs ) a S&B Polar 4-16 and have two Magnus. 2.3-16x56 and a 1.8-12x50.

I can tell you without any question that both Magnus are absolute gems. Better resolution, but its low light ability cannot be beat. The Polar was close and one really had to pay careful attention to see the difference, but where the Magnus showed just how well it was at dark was it’s ability to still show color of leaves, bushes grass etc. when the other two could not. Why on earth Leica discontinued the Magnus in the US is beyond me. The only other Optic I’d like to compare it to would be a Swaro Z8i, but I just can’t imagine it being better.

Apparently Leica is still making the Magnus but not importing them to the US, only available outside the US market

I tried getting one from Slovenia. No dice. Still looking for someone from the EU to sell me a Magnus. So far no luck

 

[koshkin]

I had a Magnus 1.8-12x50 a while back, but a friend of mine really wanted it, so it went to him. It is still the best SFP hunting scope I have seen to date, although I do like S&B Polar. I am testing the new 3-18x42 &B Meta and I think they did a lot of things right with this scope. It is designed as an all rounder, rather than a low light specialist, but given the objective diameter it is quite exceptional in low light.

ILya