Best .300 Blackout Ammo for HD?

[1911addict42]

Good evening guys,

There’s some discussion of this topic online, but unclear to me, and I’m not knowledgeable enough to understand the technical aspects of ballistics, KE etc.

Is there any expanding, subsonic ammunition for HD, something that doesn’t have major problems with over penetration? I’ve seen some products mentioned like Hornady 190, and something from Gorilla, but I’m not sure I’m understanding what I’m reading...Much if the info is also somewhat outdated.
Seems like a lot of new products are being released due to its popularity, so hoping there’s something that can effectively be run suppressed indoors now.

Price isn’t much of an issue, because I’d be buying small quantities to have loaded in a few mags, training will he done with much cheaper ammo.

 

[Ledzep]

Do you run a suppressor?

If you don't, forget about subsonic.

If you do, you have to make the judgement call between producing quiet shots and pistol-like wound channels (subsonic) and rifle-like wound channels (supersonic). I can tell you from animals as small as raccoons, the super-sonic 110-125gr class of expanding bullets produce much faster incapacitation than subsonics.

As far as subsonics go, the 190 sub-x is the best thing I've used for terminal performance. Within the confines of a subsonic load, it's very consistent, accurate, and does expand, but there is always a pretty big gap between sub and super terminal impacts.

 

[Dryan910]

Lehigh Maximum Expansion

 

[1911addict42]

Do you run a suppressor?

If you don't, forget about subsonic.

If you do, you have to make the judgement call between producing quiet shots and pistol-like wound channels (subsonic) and rifle-like wound channels (supersonic). I can tell you from animals as small as raccoons, the super-sonic 110-125gr class of expanding bullets produce much faster incapacitation than subsonics.

As far as subsonics go, the 190 sub-x is the best thing I've used for terminal performance. Within the confines of a subsonic load, it's very consistent, accurate, and does expand, but there is always a pretty big gap between sub and super terminal impacts.

Right now I don’t run a suppressor, but I have a couple that are in NFA jail. So I’d want to know which ones would be best for with a suppressor, and without. Hornady 190 for subs. What about supers?

 

[TACC]

I have not done any ballistic tests, or real life kill shots, but the suporessed federal 220 grain is the quietest and most accurate out of my 8.5 inch with a centurion liberty supressor on it. I have it sighted in at 50 yards

 

[1911addict42]

I have not done any ballistic tests, or real life kill shots, but the suporessed federal 220 grain is the quietest and most accurate out of my 8.5 inch with a centurion liberty supressor on it. I have it sighted in at 50 yards

Are you expecting any particular result in terms of over penetration? Or was that not a factor for you?

 

[bfoosh006]

The Barnes 110gr TAC TX bullet is used by many ammo manufacturer's in their 300BK Supersonic ammo.

That bullet is a well respected 300BK load.

However ... most copper bullets prefer velocity to expand, so.. to short a barrel might effect its performance.

I use it in my 8.5"-10.5" 300BK barrels.

 

[MPDS13]

Hornady 190 SubX for sub sonic
Barnes 110 or 120 TAC-TX for supersonic

 

[Bevo]

Discreet Ballistics 188gr Selous for subsonic...Hornady 190 SubX if availability or price scares you away from Discreet.

Barnes 110 for supers. Those fuckers are awesome.

 

[SBRSarge]

The Barnes 110gr TAC TX bullet is used by many ammo manufacturer's in their 300BK Supersonic ammo.

That bullet is a well respected 300BK load.

However ... most copper bullets prefer velocity to expand, so.. to short a barrel might effect its performance.

I use it in my 8.5"-10.5" 300BK barrels.

I’m with you on the 110gr Blacktip. There is a reason so many companies load it, it works very well out of long and short barrels. It was purpose built for the blackout velocities and expands down to 1300fps.

I get 1968 fps out of my 6.25” barrel and 2105 out of my 8” gun.

 

[SBRSarge]

Discreet Ballistics 188gr Selous for subsonic...Hornady 190 SubX if availability or price scares you away from Discreet.

Barnes 110 for supers. Those fuckers are awesome.

I use the Hornady 190 SubX for subsonic. They are one of the best performing sub loads in the FBI protocol.

I tried the discreet load in my three blackouts, (all with 1:7 twist) and they key holed in all of them. I think they re-designed the projectile so maybe they’d be fine now.

 

[1911addict42]

I use the Hornady 190 SubX for subsonic. They are one of the best performing sub loads in the FBI protocol.

I tried the discreet load in my three blackouts, (all with 1:7 twist) and they key holed in all of them. I think they re-designed the projectile so maybe they’d be fine now.

Trying to get my hands on those but they’re nowhere to be found.

 

[awpk03s]

I like the Hornady 125gr SST bullet for a supersonic load. Fiocchi makes a good factory offering with this bullet if you don’t reload.

As already mentioned and I’ll echo again, Hornady 190gr Sub-X for subsonic.

 

[rdog52]

Tagging in for reference...

 

[CrabsandFootball]

If you aren't running a Can, go supers. 8" is more than enough with the 300BLK getting most of its velocity before that.

No reason to handicap yourself for a SD weapon.

Barnes 110gr as mentioned is a man stopper. Its an easy choice.

 

[1911addict42]

If you aren't running a Can, go supers. 8" is more than enough with the 300BLK getting most of its velocity before that.

No reason to handicap yourself for a SD weapon.

Barnes 110gr as mentioned is a man stopper. Its an easy choice.

I just bought some Gorilla 110, which looks similar. But I’ll buy Barnes and Sig when I can find it. I do have a few cans in jail.

 

[McCrazy]

If you get on YouTube, there are quite a few videos of guys putting various .300 BO rounds into ballistic gel; both supersonic and subsonic.

The supersonic definitely do a better job of producing cavitation and a large temporary wound cavity due to their higher velocity.

110 gr. +/- a little bit really seems to be the sweet spot for the .300 BO. Much lighter than that and the bullet construction is too light and the bullets don't penetrate much or fragment upon impact. Much heavier and the velocity drops too much to get a large wound cavity and many projectiles won't expand because they were designed for .308 velocities.

This is the biggest problem with the subsonics. Sure, they are cool and everyone loves shooting a quiet gun. The problem is at that velocity the projectiles won't expand and don't produce any significant wound cavity. They basically poke holes and overpenetrate while preserving their kinetic energy instead of passing it on to their target.

 

[db2000]

190 Sub-X and Speer TNT 125

 

[Crews]

All the regurgitated internet rhetoric about using subsonic ammo is just asinine. There is literally ZERO common sense justification to limit yourself with the much poorer associated terminal performance. I bet none of the people who bring it up have ever watched a hog be shot with subsonic, it’s a joke.

God forbid I ever have to use a gun to protect my family. But if I am ever forced to, I’ll be using the ammunition capable of stopping the threat in the fastest fashion. I’d suggest OP do the same.

 

[AMG04]

I run supersonic 125 Speer TNTs. The suppressor keeps the noise and concussion down to a reasonable level when in tight spaces (indoors, vehicle, etc).

No need to run subsonic in my opinion.

 

[SBRSarge]

I think we’re starting to get to the meat of the matter. With or without a can, supers will be much more effective than subs.

I have lots of subs and enjoy shooting them for the giggle factor, and for quiet close-range training. My house gun has the 110gr blacktips and when work decides to allow 300blk SBRs I’ll carry them on duty.

Lots of folks load these bullets; Corbon, Black Hills, Barnes, Dallas Reloads to name a few.

 

[1911addict42]

I think we’re starting to get to the meat of the matter. With or without a can, supers will be much more effective than subs.

I have lots of subs and enjoy shooting them for the giggle factor, and for quiet close-range training. My house gun has the 110gr blacktips and when work decides to allow 300blk SBRs I’ll carry them on duty.

Lots of folks load these bullets; Corbon, Black Hills, Barnes, Dallas Reloads to name a few.

Can you explain more as to why you, and some others, are not in favor of any subs? Something like the Hornady 190 looks like it was designed specifically to suppress well AND perform well in CQB/HD scenarios. What am I not understanding?

 

[texag0842]

Hard to find anything in stock.

I ordered some 110gr from Gorilla but its been 2 weeks and still haven't received it. I really didn't want to load 300blk but looks like I will be buying a set of dies.

Question is do I load it on the RL1100 or just Co-Ax

 

[Crews]

Can you explain more as to why you, and some others, are not in favor of any subs? Something like the Hornady 190 looks like it was designed specifically to suppress well AND perform well in CQB/HD scenarios. What am I not understanding?

The Hornady may be better than most, but it’s still a solution looking for a problem. There is simply no dependable substitute for speed when it comes to terminal performance. To argue otherwise is ignorant.

 

[alamo5000]

For subs I keep a mag of the maximum expansion on the ready. For supers there are a number of interesting things in the 110 to 125 range that will definitely work. I have not shot any of the SubX so I cannot say one way or another but lots of people love em though.

That said I recently switched back to my 10.5 5.56 for true HD situations. I run heavy 77 grain ammo. A big part of that switch back was mainly because of how the rifle was set up (with a light a so forth) whereas I still need to buy a new light one for the blackout. I live in a very rural area so a light is pretty much a requirement.

That said I do plan to keep the blackout handy, if for nothing else that undesirable animals or whatnot creep up into my yard and I need to take them out without alarming the neighbors.

As far as why supers vs subs, I would venture to say that most bullets are speed dependent to get terminal performance. There are exceptions but they are just that, exceptions. Speed often time winds up with at the very least cavitation on target, which is a desirable trait for sure. It doesn't always work out that way because some bullets that's just how they are. That said you can play the odds though and find ammo that will do what you like over 90% of the time (at least).

 

[SBRSarge]

Can you explain more as to why you, and some others, are not in favor of any subs? Something like the Hornady 190 looks like it was designed specifically to suppress well AND perform well in CQB/HD scenarios. What am I not understanding?

I prefer supers over subs for a HD or duty round, but do not dislike subs. They are great fun and rounds like the SubX are effective for their purpose. For HD, I would be comfortable with the SubXs if no other option was available. But given the choice, I’d take supers like the black tip.

I think of subs as kind of like pistol caliber carbines, which I think are cool and useful in their own right for close up stuff. Short, handy, mush less flash and boom, etc. The 300blk sub is roughly comparable to a hot rodded 45acp for energy, just with a bit better ballistic coefficient. (Blacktip v 190 SubX energy is 1340 ft lbs v 465 ft lbs. A 45acp is around 350ft lbs.)

But supers give me more versatility for most uses that I would have. They have more energy than subs at any range. They flatten the trajectory so my Point Blank Range is greatly extended and they maintain effective terminal performance out to several hundred yards. I wouldn’t expect an on duty engagement to reach much more than 100 yards, in fact most take place well under that. But at any range I could reasonably foresee needing to shoot, I don’t have to worry about hold over and such.

In recap, subs are great for close stuff. I like shooting them and would be cool with the SubX for HD and duty if I couldn't carry supers. Were I carrying a 300 on duty, I’d keep a magazine of the SubX rounds handy. They’d be great to kill an injured deer for instance.

But supers give me a bit more potential range and lots more energy on target.

But, in the end, put either round where it needs to go and you will likely be fine.

Cheers,
SBR

 

[McCrazy]

Can you explain more as to why you, and some others, are not in favor of any subs? Something like the Hornady 190 looks like it was designed specifically to suppress well AND perform well in CQB/HD scenarios. What am I not understanding?

@1911addict42, I have reposted my previous post to answer your question.

If you get on YouTube, there are quite a few videos of guys putting various .300 BO rounds into ballistic gel; both supersonic and subsonic.

The supersonic definitely do a better job of producing cavitation and a large temporary wound cavity due to their higher velocity.

110 gr. +/- a little bit really seems to be the sweet spot for the .300 BO. Much lighter than that and the bullet construction is too light and the bullets don't penetrate much or fragment upon impact. Much heavier and the velocity drops too much to get a large wound cavity and many projectiles won't expand because they were designed for .308 velocities.

This is the biggest problem with the subsonics. Sure, they are cool and everyone loves shooting a quiet gun. The problem is at that velocity the projectiles won't expand and don't produce any significant wound cavity. They basically poke holes and overpenetrate while preserving their kinetic energy instead of passing it on to their target.

 

[1911addict42]

@1911addict42, I have reposted my previous post to answer your question.

To your point about the subsonics, there are some out there that will expand. At least according to the way they’ve been designed. But I understand where you and others have gone with this.