I am building a new rifle (Arc Archimedes LH, greyboe ridgeback and bottom plate, Tigger tech special) and I can not decide what version of 6mm to buy. Wanting to know your guys opinion on caliber and which brand of barrel to buy. Trying to not break the bank, but also make a rifle that will stand a chance in PRS once I get Better at competition. TIA
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Best 6mm for the dollar
- Thread starter BaronVonAaron
- Start date
if barrel life is a big factor id suggest a straight 6BR it is the most easy to load for 6mm and stupid accurate...if barrel life is not such a big concern then pick your poison.
I do hand load, I am okay with fireforming. I am wanting at least 1000-1500 rounds on a barrel.
Dasher will get you that barrel life or better. Or BRA/BRX, etc. straight BR will get even better barrel life, but about 100fps or so slower if that matters.
6x47 lapua is also good.
6cm is a straight up barrel burner, but you have good factory offerings.
Then there’s gay tiger. Jury still out on what the real world barrel life is vs the expectwd
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it’s the Indian not the arrow that makes the difference. Sometimes throw in a little luck and there you go.
I would go with 6 creed purely based on the availability of the brass.
I am not a fan of the barrel burners and would recommend something with the 6BR parent case; 6BR, 6 Dasher, 6BRA, 6BRX.
If I had to do it all over again I’d probably go with the 6 Dasher or 6 BRA over the 6BR. That way you can push it faster if need be or go with a mild load and retain the benefits of the 6BR.
Out of my 26” bbl I am getting 2900-2915fps w/ Berger 105gr Hybrids in a 6BR. Trajectory is within 0.1-0.2 mils out to 800yards of my 6.5CM. After that the 6BR starts to drop more. Still about the same MPH gun as my 6.5CM.
One big advantage of the 6BR is the inherent efficiency of the case. Recoil is a joke, almost like shooting a .223.
If I had to do it all over again I’d probably go with the 6 Dasher or 6 BRA over the 6BR. That way you can push it faster if need be or go with a mild load and retain the benefits of the 6BR.
Out of my 26” bbl I am getting 2900-2915fps w/ Berger 105gr Hybrids in a 6BR. Trajectory is within 0.1-0.2 mils out to 800yards of my 6.5CM. After that the 6BR starts to drop more. Still about the same MPH gun as my 6.5CM.
One big advantage of the 6BR is the inherent efficiency of the case. Recoil is a joke, almost like shooting a .223.
6mm br or bra. If you want more speed the 6mm creed with H1000/103-105's will get almost as much speed as quicker powders with far better barrel life over 4350 or RL16
Broughton's tend to be faster barrels than most. However you really can't go wrong with a good cut barrel. I would look for a deal for a Kreiger or Bartlein first then a Brux K&P or Rock Creek.
I have a 12tw Rock in 308 and a 8tw Krieger in 243. I shot out a Douglas air gauge and a few shillens in 243. Other than a bit quicker wear they were fine. I cannot say they were slower because I didn't have a crono to document them back then. This others have documented ymmv.
I have seen a cut barrel shoot 183 sierrias when a buttoned barrel with the same load not stabilize them.
Something to consider if you plan to run the 110's or 115's
Broughton's tend to be faster barrels than most. However you really can't go wrong with a good cut barrel. I would look for a deal for a Kreiger or Bartlein first then a Brux K&P or Rock Creek.
I have a 12tw Rock in 308 and a 8tw Krieger in 243. I shot out a Douglas air gauge and a few shillens in 243. Other than a bit quicker wear they were fine. I cannot say they were slower because I didn't have a crono to document them back then. This others have documented ymmv.
I have seen a cut barrel shoot 183 sierrias when a buttoned barrel with the same load not stabilize them.
Something to consider if you plan to run the 110's or 115's
There are plenty of 6.5CMs that shoot lights out - as well as 6.5x47, 6.5PRC, etc. They're not as flat as a hot 6mm, and they have a bit more wind. Compared to a Dasher, though, my 6.5CM has similar ballistics, and hits waaaaayyyyy harder down range. There's more recoil, obviously, but it's not at all unmanageable. And I've shot sub-half-MOA with this load routinely.
In addition, you have plenty of solid factory loads, and 2500+ round barrel life...
Barrel life and less recoil (Dasher / 6BRA) vs standard mags and flatter trajectory (6x47 / 6CM)
What I usually do to make these decisions is go through the reloading section and find the bullet, brass, barrel and barrel length I am using along with the resulting velocity and plug it into JBM/BallisticsARC and let the ballistics speak for themself.
The problem is that there is no "best" or we'd all be shooting it. You're gonna compromise somewhere. Here's my breakdown (with a lot of generalizations, YMMV):
Have fun and happy shooting
Josh
- 6BR
- Pros: no fire forming, factory Lapua brass, great barrel life (3k+ rounds), very low recoil (easiest to spot trace), easy to load for.
- Cons: slower than other options (2700-2800 ft/s typical), can make wind calling harder for inexperienced shooters, hard to load 110-115 gr bullets without sacrificing a lot of speed, requires specific magazines, no factory ammo.
- 6 BRA/BRX/Dasher
- Pros: factory Lapua brass (Alpha now for the Dasher), good barrel life (2k-2.5k typical), low recoil (still easy to spot trace), usually easy to load for.
- Cons: still slower than other options, but faster than the BR (2800-2950 ft/s typical), slightly easier wind calls but still tricky, can load 110-115 gr bullets but requires the correct reamer, requires specific magazines, fireforming (although minimal with the 6 BRA), no factory ammo.
- 6 GT
- Pros: feeds from standard AICS pattern magazines (no mods), lower recoil than others (should still be able to spot trace), loading appears easy with wide nodes, can shoot 110-115 gr bullets at okay speeds, faster than the 6BR and variants (2850-3050), Gay Tiger!
- Cons: limited brass and die production, no numbers on barrel life (should be in the +/- 2k mark), limited reamers available currently, lots of R&D required, no factory ammo.
- 6x47
- Pros: feeds from standard magazines, medium recoil (depending on load, should pick up some trace), typically easy to load for but there are some horror stories, can shoot 105-115's typically easily, Lapua factory brass available, good speeds (2900-3100 fts/s typical), easier wind calls than the slower calibers.
- Cons: lower barrel life than the BR variants (1500-2k typical), minor fireforming required (forming from 6.5x47L brass), no factory ammo available.
- 6 CM
- Pros: feeds from standard magazines, medium recoil (depending on load, can be trickier to pick up trace), typically easy to load for, factory brass, dies, ammo and components readily available, can shoot 105-115's typically easily, Lapua SRP brass readily available, highest speeds (2950-3150 typical), easiest wind calls (typically).
- Cons: shortest barrel life (1250-1750 typical), higher recoil than smaller cartridges (harder to spot trace).
- 243W/6SLR/6PRC/etc.
- Pros: SPEED!
- Cons: everything else.
Have fun and happy shooting
Josh
You are awesome, that gives me a lot of info. Thanks!The problem is that there is no "best" or we'd all be shooting it. You're gonna compromise somewhere. Here's my breakdown (with a lot of generalizations, YMMV):
As I said above, there are a lot of generalizations and you need to make a choice based on your needs. I went through this exercise last year and settled with the Dasher. Is it the best caliber? No. Does it do what I want it to do? Yes! Have I learned a lot from building one? Also, yes! Will it be my only 6mm ever? No.
- 6BR
- Pros: no fire forming, factory Lapua brass, great barrel life (3k+ rounds), very low recoil (easiest to spot trace), easy to load for.
- Cons: slower than other options (2700-2800 ft/s typical), can make wind calling harder for inexperienced shooters, hard to load 110-115 gr bullets without sacrificing a lot of speed, requires specific magazines, no factory ammo.
- 6 BRA/BRX/Dasher
- Pros: factory Lapua brass (Alpha now for the Dasher), good barrel life (2k-2.5k typical), low recoil (still easy to spot trace), usually easy to load for.
- Cons: still slower than other options, but faster than the BR (2800-2950 ft/s typical), slightly easier wind calls but still tricky, can load 110-115 gr bullets but requires the correct reamer, requires specific magazines, fireforming (although minimal with the 6 BRA), no factory ammo.
- 6 GT
- Pros: feeds from standard AICS pattern magazines (no mods), lower recoil than others (should still be able to spot trace), loading appears easy with wide nodes, can shoot 110-115 gr bullets at okay speeds, faster than the 6BR and variants (2850-3050), Gay Tiger!
- Cons: limited brass and die production, no numbers on barrel life (should be in the +/- 2k mark), limited reamers available currently, lots of R&D required, no factory ammo.
- 6x47
- Pros: feeds from standard magazines, medium recoil (depending on load, should pick up some trace), typically easy to load for but there are some horror stories, can shoot 105-115's typically easily, Lapua factory brass available, good speeds (2900-3100 fts/s typical), easier wind calls than the slower calibers.
- Cons: lower barrel life than the BR variants (1500-2k typical), minor fireforming required (forming from 6.5x47L brass), no factory ammo available.
- 6 CM
- Pros: feeds from standard magazines, medium recoil (depending on load, can be trickier to pick up trace), typically easy to load for, factory brass, dies, ammo and components readily available, can shoot 105-115's typically easily, Lapua SRP brass readily available, highest speeds (2950-3150 typical), easiest wind calls (typically).
- Cons: shortest barrel life (1250-1750 typical), higher recoil than smaller cartridges (harder to spot trace).
- 243W/6SLR/6PRC/etc.
- Pros: SPEED!
- Cons: everything else.
Have fun and happy shooting
Josh
Honestly I would go straight 6br. After building one I question why I also built a 6cm. The efficiency of this little round is amazing. To me it’s definitely an easy button for accuracy
The main thing I like about 6x47L was brass life, my brass is still good after 38-ish cycles. The other was past 1000Y where it kicked ass. My load was going 3175fps with 105's in a long barrel.
I got tired of replacing barrels, shot out 5 of them and partial amount of 2 others that got sold with those rifles. 1700 or so is about average barrel life but that's getting iffy for match use.
Went to 6mmBR, the low ES is amazing on these, like 5-6 fps, "(that's what my SD was with the 6x47L)", and the vertical can be stupid small at distance with 6mmBR. Only 900 rounds through mine so I'll be looking forward to what I end up with.
I like using only 30.3 grains of powder, and Lapua brass, plus not a hint of brass failing at 6 cycles with a warm load going 2906 fps!
Though 6mmBRA is appealing to me because of all the long range records it's accumulated the last 2 years in the benchrest world. Might do that next??
I got tired of replacing barrels, shot out 5 of them and partial amount of 2 others that got sold with those rifles. 1700 or so is about average barrel life but that's getting iffy for match use.
Went to 6mmBR, the low ES is amazing on these, like 5-6 fps, "(that's what my SD was with the 6x47L)", and the vertical can be stupid small at distance with 6mmBR. Only 900 rounds through mine so I'll be looking forward to what I end up with.
I like using only 30.3 grains of powder, and Lapua brass, plus not a hint of brass failing at 6 cycles with a warm load going 2906 fps!
Though 6mmBRA is appealing to me because of all the long range records it's accumulated the last 2 years in the benchrest world. Might do that next??
True and my bad
It's quite comparable to the 6CM in my mind (no experience with the caliber) other than the fact that you can get factory ammo for the 6CM. Thoughts?i'd say more in line with 6x47 regarding speeds, load ease, and barrel life. 2k isnt hard running a 105 around 3kTrue and my bad
my issue with berger 6CM factory is it's slow. if i want a 105 at 2950 i'd pick a different cartridge. great for lapua brass when you're done but it's slow. theyr 140gr 6.5 going 2830 is approproiate the 6CM should be 3050 imho
Slow for what though? You only gain maybe .5 elevation and .1 windage from 2950 to 3050.
Current Bullets have gotten to the point that speed is almost a futile chase when looking at 100fps past 2950/3000 area.
slow for the amount of powder behind it. when you could use a few grains or a lot of grains less with a different cartridge
2950 is solid for a 112/115 and the powder behind it from a creed
the berger stuff is also SUPER short coal. it looks funny
@BaronVonAaron
pull out you ballistics calculator and run some numbers....i shoot a 6BRX....with a 28" barrel(im running now)i can run a 105 hybrid at 3020 pretty easy...if i lean on it 3050-3070...heres a few numbers for you...
both shot at 1082yds in a 10mph 3 O'clock wind
115g DTAC at 3020...7.9mils elev 1.7mils wind
105 hybrid at 3020...7.4 mils elev 1.6 mils wind
DTAC in a 28" 6 creed to get 3020 42ish grains of H4350
105 hybrid in a 28" 6BRX 3020 32.9-33.1g of varget
IMHO theres no sense shooting heavy bullets in a 6mm unless your going to shoot them fast...like a 6SLR RL-26 and a 115g DTAC at 3250
pull out you ballistics calculator and run some numbers....i shoot a 6BRX....with a 28" barrel(im running now)i can run a 105 hybrid at 3020 pretty easy...if i lean on it 3050-3070...heres a few numbers for you...
both shot at 1082yds in a 10mph 3 O'clock wind
115g DTAC at 3020...7.9mils elev 1.7mils wind
105 hybrid at 3020...7.4 mils elev 1.6 mils wind
DTAC in a 28" 6 creed to get 3020 42ish grains of H4350
105 hybrid in a 28" 6BRX 3020 32.9-33.1g of varget
IMHO theres no sense shooting heavy bullets in a 6mm unless your going to shoot them fast...like a 6SLR RL-26 and a 115g DTAC at 3250
run the numbers and let me know what you come up with...i shoot 108s and 105s at 1082 im 7.6mils with a 108 berger BTT at 2980
When I went around this carousel the first time I went with 6xc.
How I compared 6xc to the others? Slightly less powder/speed than 6 creed but with a better barrel life. But also still faster than the br based cartridges. A happy compromise between the speed demons and the efficiency nerds. Very much like where the 6x47 and 6gt sits.
It also has the large primer by default (which is nice when shooting a large firing pined action so I dont puncture them) and no feeding issues. The large primer was a big push due to my rem700 action choice.
The most recent time around I went with a 6 dasher. I was building this one on an origin so I had a small firing pin to match the small primer which removed the puncture fear and mechanical ejection to deal with the short case ejection issues. Yeah its a bit of work forming them but jamming a bullet and pulling the trigger is all thats really necessary, and alpha is even selling dasher brass now. But it doesnt recoil much at all and is a dream to shoot.
Really with your set up it sounds like you could take any of these chamberings and be pleased with the results. I know I could.
Read up on the PRB blog. I know, its all sponsored bull shit and you cant believe anything published etc etc but its a nice over view.
Rifle Caliber – What The Pros Use
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And then they have some specific reloading info with an article on each,
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So to take it a view from a monetary perspective. I would argue you can see primers, brass(to an extent) and bullets as constants. they will always be the same regardless of caliber(for the most part).
depending on the caliber, you will use more powder and primarily, effect the barrel life. averaging the barrel life out will be greatest effect on overall "value".
$450 barrel
6BR (2500rds)- 18 cents/round fired
6x47 (2000rds)- 22.5 cents
6mm street cred (1500 rounds)- 30 cents
depending on the caliber, you will use more powder and primarily, effect the barrel life. averaging the barrel life out will be greatest effect on overall "value".
$450 barrel
6BR (2500rds)- 18 cents/round fired
6x47 (2000rds)- 22.5 cents
6mm street cred (1500 rounds)- 30 cents
I think Tubb had it right to begin with. When comparing the 6XC to 6CM, the 6XC produces comparable velocity, but uses a little less powder and has a longer case neck, both of which should help preserve barrel life. The 6XC should not be a barrel burner, unless you're loading it super hot.
I have never understood why everyone acted like the world had been somehow altered when they came out with 6CM. To me, the 6XC was the arguably the same or better in all categories.
Now everyone seems to overlook the 6XC when discussing 6mm's, and I'm not sure why. Norma, Peterson, Alpha brass all available with no necking down or fire forming BS. Rounds cycle through any 308-based mag with no drama whatever, which I don't think can be said for the BR variants (I've heard, never had one).
I think 6XC is the best all around 6mm. You can go faster with an SLR, or get better barrel life with a BR variant, but if you handload and want things as easy as pie, 6XC is the way to go.
I have never understood why everyone acted like the world had been somehow altered when they came out with 6CM. To me, the 6XC was the arguably the same or better in all categories.
Now everyone seems to overlook the 6XC when discussing 6mm's, and I'm not sure why. Norma, Peterson, Alpha brass all available with no necking down or fire forming BS. Rounds cycle through any 308-based mag with no drama whatever, which I don't think can be said for the BR variants (I've heard, never had one).
I think 6XC is the best all around 6mm. You can go faster with an SLR, or get better barrel life with a BR variant, but if you handload and want things as easy as pie, 6XC is the way to go.
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Do you have a link for info on the 115 hybrid? I didn't know they were going to make one
move shot both so I’m familiar with both...I’ll take the 105 hybrid if similar speeds.
I’ll take a 105 rdf. To true it out I used a .310 g7. Same as I’m using for the newer 115 rdf now.
i haven't seen or shot one but for a comp gun. cant justify the price for something im shooting half unsupported in a compromised position
now a 300 shooting 230gr bullets real far from prone. yes absolutely they're more expensive but for a HUGE BC gain
Barrels are cheap. This is an expensive hobby.
6x47 is a great compromise. My load out of a 27" Bartlein with an TB Ultra 7 with 40.2 grs. of H4350 with 105 Berger is 3225. Everyone would call bullshit if I said what my group size is. I don't shoot competitions and barrel life is good. Kills coyotes out to 1340 yrds. That's what I get paid for. If I cant use Lapua brass I don't shoot it.
6x47 is a great compromise. My load out of a 27" Bartlein with an TB Ultra 7 with 40.2 grs. of H4350 with 105 Berger is 3225. Everyone would call bullshit if I said what my group size is. I don't shoot competitions and barrel life is good. Kills coyotes out to 1340 yrds. That's what I get paid for. If I cant use Lapua brass I don't shoot it.
even then they would have to do something pretty impressive for me to pay that much for them especially with a can buy custom bullets for close to or a bit more.
I do not get caught up in high BC numbers anymore.
