what do guys think,,,night force,schmidt and bender,,what is the best,for rugged,low light,all ranges,,,is the schmidt,,really worth it ,,my buddys got them on his sako ,said he would let me look through them,,this weekend,,,im used to walmart rifle combos scopes,i got my millett 6x25 x56,i was like wowwwwwwwwwwww,,,ill prob. fall out on the clarity of a real scope, lol,,,thanks for your input guys!!
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Rifle Scopes best glass
- Thread starter cowboy25actual
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Re: best glass
you can buy USO S&B or NF . Take your pick. you could buy Premier. It is all great glass. I buy USO. They make it like I want it. And it looks cool too. Chicks dig it.
you can buy USO S&B or NF . Take your pick. you could buy Premier. It is all great glass. I buy USO. They make it like I want it. And it looks cool too. Chicks dig it.
Re: best glass
I have a S&B, NF, Lep,and USO scopes. All are great scopes for each of their price differences. The USO scope I like more because you can bulid the scope. If you shoot alot. You might say oh I wish this $3000 S&B scope did this or this 1800 scope does this. Then you call USO and tell them exactly what you what. I think that is makes them a stand alone company.
If you add the customer service on top of this. There would be no comparison. USO would be far in the lead.
Just m 2cents
I have a S&B, NF, Lep,and USO scopes. All are great scopes for each of their price differences. The USO scope I like more because you can bulid the scope. If you shoot alot. You might say oh I wish this $3000 S&B scope did this or this 1800 scope does this. Then you call USO and tell them exactly what you what. I think that is makes them a stand alone company.
If you add the customer service on top of this. There would be no comparison. USO would be far in the lead.
Just m 2cents
Re: best glass
I predict a revelation in your shooting life soon.
Never personally been blessed enough to use one but USO is obviously in a league of its own. Dont ever handle one if you dont want to have to lust after one the rest of your life (or just go ahead and buy one). All mentioned are good scopes and have thier place, quality needed will determine how much you have to spend. Handle them YOURSELF and then make your decision. Very hard to pick the right glass for you on others opinions. You know what they say about opinions......... Have fun.
okie
I predict a revelation in your shooting life soon.
okie
Re: best glass
IMO, Hensoldt/Zeiss best glass. Though S&B is nowdays same or very close second.
Btw, I wonder who makes lenses/coatings for USO, traditionally us glass does not work in low light too well -but USO seems to be exception.
IMO, Hensoldt/Zeiss best glass. Though S&B is nowdays same or very close second.
Btw, I wonder who makes lenses/coatings for USO, traditionally us glass does not work in low light too well -but USO seems to be exception.
Re: best glass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO, Hensoldt/Zeiss best glass. Though S&B is nowdays same or very close second.
Btw, I wonder who makes lenses/coatings for USO, traditionally us glass does not work in low light too well -but USO seems to be exception.
</div></div>
I've always wondered about this also. Before I knew anything or talked to anyone who used USO scopes, I always thought there is no US-made glass that can compare to the German stuff.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO, Hensoldt/Zeiss best glass. Though S&B is nowdays same or very close second.
Btw, I wonder who makes lenses/coatings for USO, traditionally us glass does not work in low light too well -but USO seems to be exception.
</div></div>
I've always wondered about this also. Before I knew anything or talked to anyone who used USO scopes, I always thought there is no US-made glass that can compare to the German stuff.
Re: best glass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO, Hensoldt/Zeiss best glass. Though S&B is nowdays same or very close second.
Btw, I wonder who makes lenses/coatings for USO, traditionally us glass does not work in low light too well -but USO seems to be exception.
</div></div>
I've always wondered about this also. Before I knew anything or talked to anyone who used USO scopes, I always thought there is no US-made glass that can compare to the German stuff. </div></div>
Does USO state their scopes are, including lenses, 100% US -made btw?
Dont have too much experience about USOs, just thinking.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO, Hensoldt/Zeiss best glass. Though S&B is nowdays same or very close second.
Btw, I wonder who makes lenses/coatings for USO, traditionally us glass does not work in low light too well -but USO seems to be exception.
</div></div>
I've always wondered about this also. Before I knew anything or talked to anyone who used USO scopes, I always thought there is no US-made glass that can compare to the German stuff. </div></div>
Does USO state their scopes are, including lenses, 100% US -made btw?
Dont have too much experience about USOs, just thinking.
Re: best glass
Though IMO, glass is a small part of the overall package heres how I see it-
Of what I have owned- S&B, NXS, USO. In that order. Not much dif in the NXS and USO, but the S&B is definately a wee bit better. With that said, Im really wanting to give a Premier a try.
Though IMO, glass is a small part of the overall package heres how I see it-
Of what I have owned- S&B, NXS, USO. In that order. Not much dif in the NXS and USO, but the S&B is definately a wee bit better. With that said, Im really wanting to give a Premier a try.
Re: best glass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cowboy....its cheaper just to shoot heroin between your toes...... </div></div>
lol....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cowboy....its cheaper just to shoot heroin between your toes...... </div></div>
lol....
Re: best glass
A similar question was just asked here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=181368
My first and only scope was one I got for my Airforce air rifle, which I used for my AR15 with good result. So I pretty much ventured into the scope world almost the same as you.
With that said, I am waiting for my first "real" scope, an USO SN3 3.8-22x illuminated mil/mil with mil GAP reticle. This is after I looked through a friend's SN3 3.2-17x moa/moa and had scope envy ever since.
A similar question was just asked here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=181368
My first and only scope was one I got for my Airforce air rifle, which I used for my AR15 with good result. So I pretty much ventured into the scope world almost the same as you.
With that said, I am waiting for my first "real" scope, an USO SN3 3.8-22x illuminated mil/mil with mil GAP reticle. This is after I looked through a friend's SN3 3.2-17x moa/moa and had scope envy ever since.
Re: best glass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A similar question was just asked here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=181368
My first and only scope was one I got for my Airforce air rifle, which I used for my AR15 with good result. So I pretty much ventured into the scope world almost the same as you.
With that said, I am waiting for my first "real" scope, an USO SN3 3.8-22x illuminated mil/mil with mil GAP reticle. This is after I looked through a friend's SN3 3.2-17x moa/moa and had scope envy ever since. </div></div>
I'm getting ready to order my first USO, but I don't know if I want the 17x or 22x SN3, I've never had a scope over 18.6x and I've "heard" higher power scopes can suffer from mirage. I'm currently using an NXS but like you after looking through a USO I've had scope envy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A similar question was just asked here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=181368
My first and only scope was one I got for my Airforce air rifle, which I used for my AR15 with good result. So I pretty much ventured into the scope world almost the same as you.
With that said, I am waiting for my first "real" scope, an USO SN3 3.8-22x illuminated mil/mil with mil GAP reticle. This is after I looked through a friend's SN3 3.2-17x moa/moa and had scope envy ever since. </div></div>
I'm getting ready to order my first USO, but I don't know if I want the 17x or 22x SN3, I've never had a scope over 18.6x and I've "heard" higher power scopes can suffer from mirage. I'm currently using an NXS but like you after looking through a USO I've had scope envy.
Re: best glass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm getting ready to order my first USO, but I don't know if I want the 17x or 22x SN3, I've never had a scope over 18.6x and I've "heard" higher power scopes can suffer from mirage. I'm currently using an NXS but like you after looking through a USO I've had scope envy. </div></div>
I don't have experience pertaining to mirages and high power scopes so can't really make recommendation with either. I do know that shooting my friend's rifle up to 17x in the wind (45mph+) and heat (120 at one time) of Inland Empire, CA was no problem at all. Search here for other people's opinions of USO, there are plenty.
For the type of occasional bench shooting I do, I won't find the USO lacking in anyway. Regardless, I am restraining myself from looking through any S&B or other higher end scopes for fear of more scope envy.
I've seen Zeiss and S&Bs several times during past SHOT, but you can't really judge the scopes much in those convention centers other than build quality, if even that.
Being a short drive distance (+-20 minutes) from USO helps with the decision also.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm getting ready to order my first USO, but I don't know if I want the 17x or 22x SN3, I've never had a scope over 18.6x and I've "heard" higher power scopes can suffer from mirage. I'm currently using an NXS but like you after looking through a USO I've had scope envy. </div></div>
I don't have experience pertaining to mirages and high power scopes so can't really make recommendation with either. I do know that shooting my friend's rifle up to 17x in the wind (45mph+) and heat (120 at one time) of Inland Empire, CA was no problem at all. Search here for other people's opinions of USO, there are plenty.
For the type of occasional bench shooting I do, I won't find the USO lacking in anyway. Regardless, I am restraining myself from looking through any S&B or other higher end scopes for fear of more scope envy.
Being a short drive distance (+-20 minutes) from USO helps with the decision also.
Re: best glass
thanks for the input,,this is the best sight everyone cool,,and really tries to help,,ill save for my upgrade and ill pratice with what i got,till i can at least hit the inside of the barn,,,,could you shut the barn door pls,,,thanks guys
thanks for the input,,this is the best sight everyone cool,,and really tries to help,,ill save for my upgrade and ill pratice with what i got,till i can at least hit the inside of the barn,,,,could you shut the barn door pls,,,thanks guys
Re: best glass
I try to get the most magnification/features I can afford. Worst thing is when you dial up to 22x, or 25x in the 5-25x SN3 model you see everything else other than the target (mirage, etc.), which is unlikely, you just dial down to 17x and use that instead...
Kidding of course, but if you should get a USO that is not functioning 100%, John and his crew of shooters will take care of you no questions asked.
I try to get the most magnification/features I can afford. Worst thing is when you dial up to 22x, or 25x in the 5-25x SN3 model you see everything else other than the target (mirage, etc.), which is unlikely, you just dial down to 17x and use that instead...
Kidding of course, but if you should get a USO that is not functioning 100%, John and his crew of shooters will take care of you no questions asked.
Re: best glass
Does anyone know, definitively, who USO and Premier source their glass from? AFAIK, high-end glass is not made in the USA.
Does anyone know, definitively, who USO and Premier source their glass from? AFAIK, high-end glass is not made in the USA.
Re: best glass
When I was taking the USO tour, I was told the Horus reticles were sourced from Horus, and other reticles are from another US company. Since they make other parts in house, I would assume they're made in USA.
Don't know about springs and such that may be in the scope.
When I was taking the USO tour, I was told the Horus reticles were sourced from Horus, and other reticles are from another US company. Since they make other parts in house, I would assume they're made in USA.
Don't know about springs and such that may be in the scope.
Re: best glass
Usually, like with German optics manufacturers, they mention where lenses come.
Even if USO does lens grinding and coatings inside house, they still would have to buy (very high quality) raw lenses from somewhere.
My SWAG is Schott glasswerk, Germany...
Usually, like with German optics manufacturers, they mention where lenses come.
Even if USO does lens grinding and coatings inside house, they still would have to buy (very high quality) raw lenses from somewhere.
My SWAG is Schott glasswerk, Germany...
Re: best glass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Usually, like with German optics manufacturers, they mention where lenses come.
Even if USO does lens grinding and coatings inside house, they still would have to buy (very high quality) raw lenses from somewhere.
My SWAG is Schott glasswerk, Germany...
</div></div>
I too don't believe the glass itself came from the USA even if ground, polished and coated here -- and if it did, that might explain why many think the other high-end scopes have glass that is just a touch better. I'm into astronomy (with high-end telescopes) and was pretty bummed to learn that, like too many things these days, the best often comes from Germany or Japan. On the other hand, the best amateur telescope mounts are made here in the USA!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Usually, like with German optics manufacturers, they mention where lenses come.
Even if USO does lens grinding and coatings inside house, they still would have to buy (very high quality) raw lenses from somewhere.
My SWAG is Schott glasswerk, Germany...
</div></div>
I too don't believe the glass itself came from the USA even if ground, polished and coated here -- and if it did, that might explain why many think the other high-end scopes have glass that is just a touch better. I'm into astronomy (with high-end telescopes) and was pretty bummed to learn that, like too many things these days, the best often comes from Germany or Japan. On the other hand, the best amateur telescope mounts are made here in the USA!
Re: best glass
I ordered a premier based on what I have heard about the glass being as good as the s and b. with the price point being a cool 1k less than the s and b, it sounds like a very good purchase. from what the guys selling the premiers are saying, the glass is German. Don't know if that makes it as good or better or what then some of the other but the reviews are coming back as incredible at a what seems like a very reasonable price point for the quality. RG
I ordered a premier based on what I have heard about the glass being as good as the s and b. with the price point being a cool 1k less than the s and b, it sounds like a very good purchase. from what the guys selling the premiers are saying, the glass is German. Don't know if that makes it as good or better or what then some of the other but the reviews are coming back as incredible at a what seems like a very reasonable price point for the quality. RG
Re: best glass
I have or have had USO, NXS, Luepy MK 4, and Horus. The Mk 4 was a touch more grainy and with less light transmission,the others were all very comprable. Personally, I want a S&B. Accepting donations.
I have or have had USO, NXS, Luepy MK 4, and Horus. The Mk 4 was a touch more grainy and with less light transmission,the others were all very comprable. Personally, I want a S&B. Accepting donations.
Re: best glass
My 5x25x58 T-Pal came yesterday, and its a monster. It is clear, has positive clicks, and spec'ed out exactly like I wanted. You cant ask for much more. I am just waiting for my rifle to get here next week, i will mount it and have some fun at the range. We will see how the tracking is when the rifle gets here.
My 5x25x58 T-Pal came yesterday, and its a monster. It is clear, has positive clicks, and spec'ed out exactly like I wanted. You cant ask for much more. I am just waiting for my rifle to get here next week, i will mount it and have some fun at the range. We will see how the tracking is when the rifle gets here.
Re: best glass
Didn't say if u were hunting or just shooting at targets late. If hunting is your game leave the NF, leupys, and pm2s alone, their fovs suck as does their late evening performance imo compared to say a vmv, z6 or sb classic-not pm2. FOV is huge for late hunting.
Didn't say if u were hunting or just shooting at targets late. If hunting is your game leave the NF, leupys, and pm2s alone, their fovs suck as does their late evening performance imo compared to say a vmv, z6 or sb classic-not pm2. FOV is huge for late hunting.
Re: best glass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy25actual</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...best,for rugged,low light,all ranges</div></div>You're on the right track: exit pupil and glass are not the most important features of a scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy25actual</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...best,for rugged,low light,all ranges</div></div>You're on the right track: exit pupil and glass are not the most important features of a scope.
Re: best glass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casscad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't say if u were hunting or just shooting at targets late. If hunting is your game leave the NF, leupys, and pm2s alone, their fovs suck as does their late evening performance imo compared to say a vmv, z6 or sb classic-not pm2. FOV is huge for late hunting. </div></div>
Here is the summation. Above. The crux of the matter, or getting to it... "hunting or just shooting at targets late"
My rifles are hunting/precision rigs. Most go about 11.5 to 12 lbs without scope. Some are precision AR and go over 12 with a full magazine. A scope is actually a scopesight. Call me a traditionalist. Not many opportunities for sniping from a hide out to 1000+ yds in my AO. Not many static targets.
Got rid of an 8-32x NXS R2 because it was too damn heavy and not that much better than Leupold Mk4s I had. I do have a 2.5-10 24mm NXS FC2 on a short barreled AR-10, but it is fairly light.
A 17 lb tactical rifle is just too specialized and too heavy for field use. My opinion. I don't need optics that test with the best camera lenses. I need an optic that is compact, rugged, tracks reliably, and is lightweight.
I am constantly amazed by the over-specialization of gear the enthusiasts and operators discuss on this sight. Carrying a 17lb rifle in the field is about like wearing a 10lb pair of boots; it will kick your ass, no matter how good your conditioning.
Do I need to see the whisker-hairs on the wheat stalks blowing at 1000yds to gauge the wind? No. Just need to see how the stalks lean. The extra 2lbs of lens gangs and heavy ground glass does not do anything for my shooting. I mean, you are shooting across conditions you cannot control or be sure of. Those conditions influence your bullet travel while the best sight picture does nothing more for you (except mentally) than the iron sights aligned on the same target.
I am a camera guy. Owned Canon F and Leica M eqpt in the mid-70s; made a living at it for a while. I know photography demands are different from scopesights when it comes to delivering their intended purpose.
Buy what you want, of course, yet from my perspective I see most of these heavy high-precision rifles with top notch glass as overly specialized and impractical.
Sniping is not about shooting from a poured concrete bench. I almost believe that a sniping team would need a corps of sherpas to carry their ancillary gear into the field. A 17lb rifle is not a hunter's tool, but a sniper is a hunter.
I don't need to be able to read a tire's manufacturing date code, or load range at 1000 yds to put a bullet through it and disable the vehicle. The analogy applies to all shooting tasks, except maybe the police marksman or hostage rescue shooter. Where innocent lives are at stake only the best is warranted. Those shooters are operating close, from a fixed position of their choosing, and are supplying intel to their team leader. Very different from a field operational sniper.
It is my opinion that the best glass is not always integral to the best sight. My goal is to have the best sighting system, the glass is not crucial.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casscad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't say if u were hunting or just shooting at targets late. If hunting is your game leave the NF, leupys, and pm2s alone, their fovs suck as does their late evening performance imo compared to say a vmv, z6 or sb classic-not pm2. FOV is huge for late hunting. </div></div>
Here is the summation. Above. The crux of the matter, or getting to it... "hunting or just shooting at targets late"
My rifles are hunting/precision rigs. Most go about 11.5 to 12 lbs without scope. Some are precision AR and go over 12 with a full magazine. A scope is actually a scopesight. Call me a traditionalist. Not many opportunities for sniping from a hide out to 1000+ yds in my AO. Not many static targets.
Got rid of an 8-32x NXS R2 because it was too damn heavy and not that much better than Leupold Mk4s I had. I do have a 2.5-10 24mm NXS FC2 on a short barreled AR-10, but it is fairly light.
A 17 lb tactical rifle is just too specialized and too heavy for field use. My opinion. I don't need optics that test with the best camera lenses. I need an optic that is compact, rugged, tracks reliably, and is lightweight.
I am constantly amazed by the over-specialization of gear the enthusiasts and operators discuss on this sight. Carrying a 17lb rifle in the field is about like wearing a 10lb pair of boots; it will kick your ass, no matter how good your conditioning.
Do I need to see the whisker-hairs on the wheat stalks blowing at 1000yds to gauge the wind? No. Just need to see how the stalks lean. The extra 2lbs of lens gangs and heavy ground glass does not do anything for my shooting. I mean, you are shooting across conditions you cannot control or be sure of. Those conditions influence your bullet travel while the best sight picture does nothing more for you (except mentally) than the iron sights aligned on the same target.
I am a camera guy. Owned Canon F and Leica M eqpt in the mid-70s; made a living at it for a while. I know photography demands are different from scopesights when it comes to delivering their intended purpose.
Buy what you want, of course, yet from my perspective I see most of these heavy high-precision rifles with top notch glass as overly specialized and impractical.
Sniping is not about shooting from a poured concrete bench. I almost believe that a sniping team would need a corps of sherpas to carry their ancillary gear into the field. A 17lb rifle is not a hunter's tool, but a sniper is a hunter.
I don't need to be able to read a tire's manufacturing date code, or load range at 1000 yds to put a bullet through it and disable the vehicle. The analogy applies to all shooting tasks, except maybe the police marksman or hostage rescue shooter. Where innocent lives are at stake only the best is warranted. Those shooters are operating close, from a fixed position of their choosing, and are supplying intel to their team leader. Very different from a field operational sniper.
It is my opinion that the best glass is not always integral to the best sight. My goal is to have the best sighting system, the glass is not crucial.
Re: best glass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cartman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Usually, like with German optics manufacturers, they mention where lenses come.
Even if USO does lens grinding and coatings inside house, they still would have to buy (very high quality) raw lenses from somewhere.
My SWAG is Schott glasswerk, Germany...
</div></div>
I too don't believe the glass itself came from the USA even if ground, polished and coated here -- and if it did, that might explain why many think the other high-end scopes have glass that is just a touch better. I'm into astronomy (with high-end telescopes) and was pretty bummed to learn that, like too many things these days, the best often comes from Germany or Japan. On the other hand, the best amateur telescope mounts are made here in the USA! </div></div>
Believe it or not Midway sells SN-3s and in the description it states the glass is Schott.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cartman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Usually, like with German optics manufacturers, they mention where lenses come.
Even if USO does lens grinding and coatings inside house, they still would have to buy (very high quality) raw lenses from somewhere.
My SWAG is Schott glasswerk, Germany...
</div></div>
I too don't believe the glass itself came from the USA even if ground, polished and coated here -- and if it did, that might explain why many think the other high-end scopes have glass that is just a touch better. I'm into astronomy (with high-end telescopes) and was pretty bummed to learn that, like too many things these days, the best often comes from Germany or Japan. On the other hand, the best amateur telescope mounts are made here in the USA! </div></div>
Believe it or not Midway sells SN-3s and in the description it states the glass is Schott.
