Best varmint rifle from factory?

[flashhole]

I went the route of the Kimber Longmaster Classic in 223 with the 24" barrel. This is it with a 10X variable scope. I'v since switched out the scope for a Zeiss Conquest 4-14. It loves 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and 63 grain Sierra Semi Spitzers and anyting heavier. It has a 1:9 twist.



This is a game we play at the range ... throw your ante in the pot ... everyone gets their own target, first shot must be in the 10 ring, everyone shoots. Everyone with a clean 10 ring shot moves to round 2. Next shot must be fully on the target but not touching another bullet hole. Everyone with a clean shot moves to round 3 etc. You keep shooting till everyone drops out and someone gets the money. Then you do it again. The target keeps getting smaller and smaller. This was at 100 yards. It gets real tough at 200 yards. This target was a winner. Bragging rights are great.

 

[flashhole]

Upper target another winner, lower target a loser because I clipped another bullet hole.

 

[long range newbie]

I like the XLR chassis, never have seen a whiskey chassis before (in real life) and the xlr is cheaper. I also don't know of any savage rifles that come at as good as of a deal as the tikka varmint.

 

[long range newbie]

they use to make kimber rifles in oregon . but now not, I even know where the factory use to be at.

 

[ranger1183]

The Steyr Tactical Elite is a factory rifle that I would stack up against any other factory rifle. Without going to a custom built rifle, this Steyr is more accurate than any other factory rifle I have ever shot.
STEYR ELITE :: steyr-mannlicher.com :: count on it

Yeah but they're like 2300 and I could get a tikka and deck it out for that price. (tikka t3 varmint 820, base 80, bolt shroud/handle kit 130, 750 for chassis, 40 for warne rings, and ~400 for decent scope). all adds up to 2220

Sorry, didnt see the $1200 budget on the first read. In that case a 5R Stainless Steel Remington 700 is the way I'd go. So many great upgrades for it and so much demand and value on resale. Those .223 AI mags and chassis systems really make for a stand out rifle.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I've just broke in a Savage VLP-DBM .308. It is shooting sub moa at 2670 fps with the trigger set at 2.5 lbs. I have to say I am impressed. It was ordered sight unseen. What came into the shop is what I got. All I did was a visual inspection before the purchase.

 

[FailToObserve]

I like the XLR chassis, never have seen a whiskey chassis before (in real life) and the xlr is cheaper. I also don't know of any savage rifles that come at as good as of a deal as the tikka varmint.

Not pushing one or the other on you. Just showing some pros and cons on the price. Performance, in my opinion, will be the same out of the box.
Price to price on just the rifle the Tikka wins. It has plastic bits. Can't beat that when going cheap. However, savage has a better backing on parts and you could even change the barrel on your own no hassle (wrench and go gauge is all you need). Savage also doesn't need to be trued. If you stick with early game the Tikka will win. If you think about the long run they will both cost the same .

A lot of different variables. You can't go wrong with either one. What is most important to you? $1200 and out of the box accuracy alone can't determine either one of these.

 

[long range newbie]

Most important thing is to have 24in bbl, 1:8 (1:9 may be acceptable), nice trigger, nice bolt (smooth), nice bolt handle, detachable mags, I'd also like it to be at least 3/4 moa. Weigh about 9lbs max (I might be ok with little heavier) threaded would be a plus. I'd spend more if It came in a nice stock.

 

[Smooth_87]

Most important thing is to have 24in bbl, 1:8 (1:9 may be acceptable), nice trigger, nice bolt (smooth), nice bolt handle, detachable mags, I'd also like it to be at least 3/4 moa. Weigh about 9lbs max (I might be ok with little heavier) threaded would be a plus. I'd spend more if It came in a nice stock.

You just described tikka varmint ;-)

 

[long range newbie]

I know >.< just wanting to make the right choice.

 

[CrossHare]

This!!
The Steyr will out shoot any factory stick I've ever shot. The only way to beat one is to go the custom route and even then you'll have your work cut out for you.

The Steyr Tactical Elite is a factory rifle that I would stack up against any other factory rifle. Without going to a custom built rifle, this Steyr is more accurate than any other factory rifle I have ever shot.
STEYR ELITE :: steyr-mannlicher.com :: count on it

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I have a custom Remington 700 $2,300 and will shoot just a good as the Savage $850 I mentioned above so it doesn't need to be a custom rifle. And you're not paying attention to his budget.

BTW, that is a kick ass Kimber rifle, flashhole !!!

 

[Surgikill]

If you want customizability go with a Remington. However a nice savage or cz would leave You with 400-500 for a scope

Sent from GS3 Synergy

 

[346ci]

If you want customizability go with a Remington. However a nice savage or cz would leave You with 400-500 for a scope

Sent from GS3 Synergy

Does that remy come with a 'Smith? If not, you are going to need one. On the other hand, Savage is user friendly and has just as much aftermarket parts.

I haven't played with a Tikka much but they seem very well built. I know their aftermarket support is growing which is great. I'd put the Savage and Tikka way ahead of anything remy currently has to offer.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Is Tikka associated with Sako associated with Beretta now. My only concern is parts. I have a Sako Finnfire that is super. The only problem is parts.

 

[700sendero]

Remmy 700 sps tac 20" 1 in 9...mine shoots well with 60 gr v max..put a swfa s.s of your choice on it. Mount an rings 1k..

 

[Surgikill]

Does that remy come with a 'Smith? If not, you are going to need one. On the other hand, Savage is user friendly and has just as much aftermarket parts.

I haven't played with a Tikka much but they seem very well built. I know their aftermarket support is growing which is great. I'd put the Savage and Tikka way ahead of anything remy currently has to offer.

I don't disagree with you. Personally I hate Remington and Remington style actions. That's why i stick with CZ. Not much aftermarket availability but I really like them. Amazing trigger and a nice sturdy action. Not to mention they shoot lights out. I was torn between CZ and Savage and i went with CZ because i have shot one before. I want to buy a savage in the future, but i don't think I'll ever by a Remington.

Sent from GS3 Synergy

 

[SporterII]

Styer looks decked out to me.
I did not even know of them.
Where do I put my bipod and where are they sold?

 

[Crosshair]

This is a great thread concerning a Tikka Varmint and some cool upgrades:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...on-rifles/40156-tikka-t3-varmint-project.html
The Tikka would be my pick and they are getting more and more aftermarket options all the time.

 

[Cobracutter]

Not pushing one or the other on you. Just showing some pros and cons on the price. Performance, in my opinion, will be the same out of the box.
Price to price on just the rifle the Tikka wins. It has plastic bits. Can't beat that when going cheap. However, savage has a better backing on parts and you could even change the barrel on your own no hassle (wrench and go gauge is all you need). Savage also doesn't need to be trued. If you stick with early game the Tikka will win. If you think about the long run they will both cost the same .

A lot of different variables. You can't go wrong with either one. What is most important to you? $1200 and out of the box accuracy alone can't determine either one of these.

What are you talking about? If anything a Savage is going to be unreliable over the long haul. Tikka's are probally the most true factory action you can buy.... as been said by many of the smiths on this very website. Tikka All day everyday over a Savage.

 

[Cobracutter]

Is Tikka associated with Sako associated with Beretta now. My only concern is parts. I have a Sako Finnfire that is super. The only problem is parts.

Tikka is a subsidiary of Sako.

Its Basicaly the same exact quality, slightly different designs, made on the same machinery. Both companies are owned by Berretta and BerrettaUSA is fucking RETARDED when it comes to supporting them.

The good news is, they rarley need parts/upgrades.

 

[Cobracutter]

The Steyr Tactical Elite is a factory rifle that I would stack up against any other factory rifle. Without going to a custom built rifle, this Steyr is more accurate than any other factory rifle I have ever shot.
STEYR ELITE :: steyr-mannlicher.com :: count on it

Thats Like someone asking about a SPS tactical getting recomended a GAP Crusader or Surgeon Scalpel.

 

[dKilla]

My Rem 700 SPS-V shot 3/4" out of the box with factory ammo. Changed out the stock for a VLS takeoff that I picked up from the classifieds on this site and put a Timney trigger in it. It now shoots 1/4 - 1/2" with several different hand loads.

 

[RonA]

well never really shoot 200yards plus its dense brush here and I can always take out the 260 or something bigger if I need more umph for the wind or distance. I might consider another caliber

200 yards or less varmint rifle and you're looking at cannons. I've got a Remington model 7 with a 1-13tw Kreiger #4 barrel in .221 Fireball for sale that will shoot chipmunks at that distance all day, use less powder doing it, weighs less, and will last longer than the .223.

 

[Cobracutter]

My Rem 700 SPS-V shot 3/4" out of the box with factory ammo. Changed out the stock for a VLS takeoff that I picked up from the classifieds on this site and put a Timney trigger in it. It now shoots 1/4 - 1/2" with several different hand loads.

Yea its amazing how everyone on this site has a 700 SPS or other $500 gun that shoots better than GAP's and Suergeons... Yet it never happens in person when I actualy shoot around them.

 

[dKilla]

Best varmint rifle from factory?

Well sir, I have nothing to prove...admittedly, I spent probably $1000 on reloading components working up a few loads that shoot that well. Clearly there's no interest here.

I'll kindly move on if my input is not wanted. For the record, however...

Best group:

First group with lam stock:

Pic of original rifle:

Pic of out of the box group with factory ammo:

Pic of rifle as it stands today:

 

[dKilla]

Yea its amazing how everyone on this site has a 700 SPS or other $500 gun that shoots better than GAP's and Suergeons... Yet it never happens in person when I actualy shoot around them.

Expensive tools are no more precise than a hatchet in the hands of a talentless hack. Many have witnessed skilled artists/craftsman create beautiful sculptures with little more than a chainsaw, a chisel and a block of wood or ice.

There are plenty of sub-MOA,100 yard $500 rifles on the market...sub-MOA shooters are another matter. Here's how mine shot out of the box:

And after some work:

 

[Hunt4life]

Gun either shoots or it doesn't. Custom guns just help guarantee better accuracy, but even they have their problems. About 95% of accuracy comes from the barrel any way, other 5% in concentricness of the action and bedding.

 

[dKilla]

Best varmint rifle from factory?

Expensive tools are no more precise than a hatchet in the hands of a talentless hack. Many have witnessed skilled artists/craftsman create beautiful sculptures with nothing more than a chainsaw, a chisel and a block of wood or ice. There are plenty of 100 yard sub-MOA $500 rifles on the market....sub-MOA shooters are another matter, entirely.

For the record, here's my SPS-V .243, brand new with scope mounted:


And here's the first group I shot with it and factory ammo


And here's the upgraded rife:


And the best group the first time I took that out:


And finally, the best group I've shot with it during load development (.265")

Yea its amazing how everyone on this site has a 700 SPS or other $500 gun that shoots better than GAP's and Suergeons... Yet it never happens in person when I actualy shoot around them.

 

[Surgikill]

[MENTION=81527]dKilla[/MENTION] that last group is velocity deviation. Tighten up your load tolerances and that will become one hole

Sent from GS3 Synergy

 

[dKilla]

Best varmint rifle from factory?

[MENTION=81527]dKilla[/MENTION] that last group is velocity deviation. Tighten up your load tolerances and that will become one hole

Sent from GS3 Synergy

[MENTION=88318]Surgikill[/MENTION]
Thanks, I thought it was either that or me not breaking the shot at the same point in my breath cycle.

 

[paindoc]

[MENTION=81527]dKilla[/MENTION] that last group is velocity deviation. Tighten up your load tolerances and that will become one hole

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More likely breaking the shot at different points in the breathing cycle. His velocities would have to vary more than 10% between shots at this difference to produce that much vertical discrepancy.

 

[Surgikill]

More likely breaking the shot at different points in the breathing cycle. His velocities would have to vary more than 10% between shots at this difference to produce that much vertical discrepancy.

Can you explain how that would affect it? I've never heard that before so I'm curious.

Sent from GS3 Synergy

 

[dKilla]

Zoom way in and watch your crosshairs rise as you exhale and fall as you inhale. If you're not breaking the shot at the same point in your breathing cycle it will cause vertical stringing in your shots. I actually think I learned about it the first time watching some instructional videos that I found on the homepage of this site. I'm at work now but I'll see if I can dig them up and post a link when I get home tonight.

 

[paindoc]

Can you explain how that would affect it? I've never heard that before so I'm curious.

Sent from GS3 Synergy

The principal reason a shot string appears in a vertical fashion is that at the point the shot is released, if there is any difference in intrapleural volume (air in the lungs), the rifle will be pointed either higher or lower. Eg. During inhalation, the rifle will point downward and during exhalation the rifle will point upward. So if the shot breaks at different points in the breathing cycle the shots will have this classic grouping pattern.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Originally Posted by dKilla View Post
My Rem 700 SPS-V shot 3/4" out of the box with factory ammo. Changed out the stock for a VLS takeoff that I picked up from the classifieds on this site and put a Timney trigger in it. It now shoots 1/4 - 1/2" with several different hand loads.

Yea its amazing how everyone on this site has a 700 SPS or other $500 gun that shoots better than GAP's and Suergeons... Yet it never happens in person when I actualy shoot around them.

What's the deal. He never compared his Remington to anything. It's not that difficult to get a .75" group with a new rifle at 100 yards. It's almost point blank. So, if he is getting smaller groups with hand loads it only makes sense. He is not saying it happens all the time. I never assumed that when I read it. Also, taking out that BS factory trigger made a big difference as well. He got a good rifle out of the box. It happens. Go figure.

 

[Surgikill]

The principal reason a shot string appears in a vertical fashion is that at the point the shot is released, if there is any difference in intrapleural volume (air in the lungs), the rifle will be pointed either higher or lower. Eg. During inhalation, the rifle will point downward and during exhalation the rifle will point upward. So if the shot breaks at different points in the breathing cycle the shots will have this classic grouping pattern.

Does this happen on a lead sled as well?

Sent from GS3 Synergy

 

[dKilla]

Does this happen on a lead sled as well?

Sent from GS3 Synergy

Never shot off one but I doubt it would happen if you had the rifle locked into a lead sled.

 

[dKilla]

[MENTION=88318]Surgikill[/MENTION]

Here's the link to the vid I referenced earlier. It's #4 of, I believe, 9 total.

Lesson 4 - YouTube

 

[dKilla]

Best varmint rifle from factory?

What's the deal. He never compared his Remington to anything. It's not that difficult to get a .75" group with a new rifle at 100 yards. It's almost point blank. So, if he is getting smaller groups with hand loads it only makes sense. He is not saying it happens all the time. I never assumed that when I read it. Also, taking out that BS factory trigger made a big difference as well. He got a good rifle out of the box. It happens. Go figure.

Yeah, some guys just can't wrap their head around the fact that you don't have to spend $2500 on a rifle to be able to hit the broad side of a barn. The original poster is looking for. .223 that'll shoot under an inch at 100 yards...hell, go down to your local Wally World and buy whatever bolt rifle they have in stock, pick up some quality ammo and you're pretty much good to go. The guy isn't looking to shoot holes in the foreheads of mosquitos at 1000 yards. Ease up!

On a side note.. If it makes anyone feel better, I probably spent another $500 testing different reloading components to find a few good loads for my 700. The process will likely never end.

 

[BJ343]

I cant see the Remington 700 Police mentioned in .223...I have one and man it is a hammer, I had a pro trigger job done on it lightened a bit, I've worked up two perfect hand loads 55gn and 69, shoots one hole groups all day at 100....(sure it doesnt have a detachable mag)

 

[Graham]

Best varmint rifle from factory?

If a rifle doesn't shoot well at 100 yards, it's broken.

 

[paindoc]

Does this happen on a lead sled as well?

Sent from GS3 Synergy

No. If the rifle has no contact with the body whatsoever and if the rifle is locked in solidly then there sould be no effect in regards to breathing.

 

[hahco]

Zoom way in and watch your crosshairs rise as you exhale and fall as you inhale. If you're not breaking the shot at the same point in your breathing cycle it will cause vertical stringing in your shots. I actually think I learned about it the first time watching some instructional videos that I found on the homepage of this site. I'm at work now but I'll see if I can dig them up and post a link when I get home tonight.

dkilla: I like the laminate stock on that rifle. Boyds or Remington factory take-off of a VLS?

 

[dKilla]

dkilla: I like the laminate stock on that rifle. Boyds or Remington factory take-off of a VLS?

VLS takeoff. Got it from a guy on the classifieds here.

 

[Graham]

Does this happen on a lead sled as well?

Then it doesn't matter because you will never be able to get the rifle zeroed in the first place.

 

[Surgikill]

Then it doesn't matter because you will never be able to get the rifle zeroed in the first place.

?

Sent from GS3 Synergy

 

[hahco]

friends don't let friends use a lead sled ...

 

[Graham]

?

Exactly the reaction most people have when they try to zero by clamping their rifle into a device.

You are not pressure testing barrels. Ditch the tourist traps, especially those that will hinder what you are trying to achieve.



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[Surgikill]

Funny cause I'm not doing that. Don't assume.

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