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Show me where it says you can’t regulate firearms.
Keep and bear arms... as far as I’m aware there’s zero mention of regulation.
Actually a pistol can go to rifle form with a 16 inch plus barrel. And back to a pistol again. It just can never have been registered as a rifle.so, if the stabilizer is the "illegal aspect" of the pistol, here are my thoughts:
1) many people will take the easiest path - not selling, destroying, filing paperwork, or surrendering it, but rather turning it into a rifle. It is currently legal to change a lower from pistol to rifle, but not from a rifle to pistol.
therefore; if you turn your pistol into a rifle and then eventually this ruling is overturned, you cannot legally revert it back to it's original configuration. it must stay a rifle.
2) the other cheap and easy option: if the old-style pistol buffer tubes are not affected by this, since they are not designed to be shouldered, then an easy legal solution would be to put on an old style buffer tube for the duration of the injunction. Your pistol remains a legal pistol, and afterwards the tube can be replaced again with the pistol tube/stabilizer.
correct??? or am I wrong at any point?
and does retaining the stabilizer in the interim constitute constructive possession?
This. The pistol to rifle and back again conundrum only applies to how it was originally manufactured. If it was manufactured as a rifle, it cannot be configured as a pistol. However, if it was originally manufactured as a pistol, it can be made into a rifle, then back into a pistol. This was confirmed by the TC Contender case a few decades ago…Actually a pistol can go to rifle form with a 16 inch plus barrel. And back to a pistol again. It just can never have been registered as a rifle.
Regulated militia.This garbage about "well if people weren't using them like SBR's, the ATF wouldn't be "clamping down"".... needs to go too. People doing legal things with legal items, that are CONSTITIONALLY PROTECTED , is not a reason for some UNELECTED BUREAUCRAT to make new law.
Regulated militia.
I cant have surface to air missiles, F-15 with weapons, a nuke. But but but the constitution...
Their is a ton of regulation on what you can have as a civilian. These “unelected burocrats” as you call them are granted power through “elected” officials. They have and are doing it, you saying they cant... its happening, regardless.
Your arguments don't hold water... lots Reeee!
You need to refine your argument if you are going to make real progress.
Regulated militia.
I cant have surface to air missiles, F-15 with weapons, a nuke. But but but the constitution...
Their is a ton of regulation on what you can have as a civilian. These “unelected burocrats” as you call them are granted power through “elected” officials. They have and are doing it, you saying they cant... its happening, regardless.
Your arguments don't hold water... lots Reeee!
You need to refine your argument if you are going to make real progress.
Right to Bear arms
Ask your self this. Are you okay with any one, with no regulation having the ability to possess a Nuclear warhead? Like Billy the town meth cook having canned sunshine?
If you cant make a convincing argument to some one playing the devils advocate... you will never win over someone who truly disagrees with you.The terminology "well regulated" has already been correctly defined ITT, as it was used at the time of the writing, and you know this.
So because there is a ton of regulation on things, the constitution doesn't matter? That's one hell of a take.
Look I know you lean to the left by your comments on other things, but I would think someone who claims to be pro 2A would not excuse agencies making law and ignoring the constitution. The SupreaM Court has already ruled on this same issue so that "congress delegated it to the unelected agencies men" is flatly wrong as well.
Like I said, get the liberal nonsense out of your life, it's making your mind weak and submissive.
Deep in the final rule document I saw a picture of an AR pistol with the old school pistol buffer tube that’s like 6” being used as an example of a “non-shoulderable” pistol, so I think the old pistol buffer tube would be ok, but who knows. I would not leave a carbine style tube on it if I were worried about it. None of this is exactly logical.so does simply removing the brace suffice? I’ve read a few different post on other forums mentioning a pistol buffer tube. Wasn’t sure if the brace needs to be removed and they expect a pistol buffer tube to be installed as well.
That would be here:Show me where it says you can’t regulate firearms.
Keep and bear arms... as far as I’m aware there’s zero mention of regulation.
Wow, just wow this govt we have.
Exactly the reason I have PinKoJuan, blocked.Those are the powers given. All other powers are reserved for the state. The government is told what it can do, not what it can’t. Everything not named, is unlawful.
We the people operate under common law; if it’s not listed as illegal, it’s legal.
The Government is bound, similar to Napoleonic law, where, unless listed, it’s illegal. The default for Uncle Sam is no. The default for the people is yes.
With that said- you can now see your comment represents a disgusting heresy to American Liberty. It’s fundamentally completely perverse. This mindset is subtle, yet so powerful that certain groups have barred slaves (freed or not) from participating. The slaved or cuckolded mind/will is a real danger to free men.
If you cant make a convincing argument to some one playing the devils advocate... you will never win over someone who truly disagrees with you.
The point is, i bet you dont want billy the meth cook make nukes in his “lab”.
Highlighting that you are not a pure 2A supporter, As you yourself would likely want to regulate billy
Thats a lot of words to avoid a direct answer. Answering a question with multiple questions. I aint your wife...I have made the argument and proven it true already.
We have a method for addressing such concerns as nuclear weapons in citizens hands, IF.... that is a concern.
Do you think the laws (and these are real laws, not a rogue agency making rules they don't have the authority to make), stop Mr meth head from making meth in his moms out building?????
Do laws stop terrorist from getting dirty bombs and rockets and anything else they can get their hands on????
Cost (be that monetary, politically, or socially) is what keeps bad things bad. Laws against legal God fearing law abiding Americans having this or that type of weapon doesn't do anything but take rights away.
Yes, I'm very pro 2A!
Thats a lot of words to avoid a direct answer. Answering a question with multiple questions. I aint your wife...
Yes/no are you okay with citizens owning nuclear arms?
The point is you are avoiding the fact that I bet you don't, meaning only support 2A when it benefits you.
View attachment 8051595
Right to bear arms...
Which is not just guns.
My billy example is pointing out your hypocrisy on the matter.
Yep... avoiding a direct yes/no answer. I would assume you do in-fact support arms regulation. As you have multplie times avoided answering... So screamming Reeee the 2A gives me the right to have x... is a weak argument, especially when you do infact support regulation. But thats seemingly not something you are willing to admit!I'm not avoiding anything. Like I said, we have a method to allow for our constitution to be altered. We've done it before (surprise surprise). If something is that important, then we have a way to do it. Your talking in circles isn't making any point or doing anything other than making you look more foolish.
Rogue agencies making law is bogus. PERIOD.
Yep... avoiding a direct yes/no answer. I would assume you do in-fact support arms regulation. As you have multplie times avoided answering... So screamming Reeee the 2A gives me the right to have x... is a weak argument, especially when you do infact support regulation. But thats seemingly not something you are willing to admit!
Some would see the 2A as giving government the right to regulate. A well regulated milita...
The power the ATF, DoJ is using to regulate arms is derived from congressional and presidential power, elected officials who have appointed these people. There are in fact “elected” officials that are allowing this and pushing, under the umbrella of their interpretation of the law.
View attachment 8051603
Hows it feel to infringe on billys right to possess arms???
You still haven't answered yes/no. Because you are a hypocrite, who would regulate billy’s access to arms.Ok, sorry I said anything
You aren't capable. I've addressed everything and you keep acting like I'm ignoring something. Let me spell this out for you and then be done with this, as you are clearly a liberal, who's content to make excuses and talk in circles when proven wrong.
IF THERE IS NEED TO HAVE SOME REGULATION ON THE 2ND AMENDMENT, (such as nuclear weapons in your example ) WE HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL METHOD TO DO SO. THAT METHOD IS NOT A ROGUE AGENCY MAKING ARBITRARY RULES.
NO, THE 2ND AMENDMENT DOES NOT GIVE ANY POWER TO REGULATE THE BEARING OF ARMS. THAT IS FALSE, AND SOMETHING MADE UP BY YOU AND THE LIBERALS LIKE YOU. THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED ITT.
THE 2ND EXPRESSLY FORBIDS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FROM REGULATING ARMS. THE CONSTITUTION EXPRESSLY FORBIDS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FEOM DOING ANYTHING THAT ISNT EXPRESSLY GRANTED TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
Now I am done with you, but I will say again. You need to get away from the OBVIOUS liberal influence in your life, it's making your brain weak.
Awe... Cancal culture. Having your opinions challeged.I’m really surprised that so few have put greengo on ignore.
This would a one point he makes in the video I posted above. It’ll be a trap for some.So does this rule essentially reclassify AR/Ak pistols to SBRs?
Only reason I ask is because states like IL, SBRs and silencers are illegal. So if in a state where SBRs are already banned but pistols were legal, if you registered it as a free NFA item you would in theory get a knock on the door from a 3 letter agency or state police for possession of an SBR right?
I doubt many people will comply with this rule to begin with, just curious.
Probably more like this. Big data. The feds will have a list of almost everyone with a brace. And almost everyone with an AR. How did they get this list? By seeing that you bought an AR accessory on Amazon. By hacking SB's shipping list. By looking thru 50 million 4473 scans. And the cherry on top, by looking at the NFA list of morons who registered their SBRs in 2023. So what will they do with this info?The ATF isn't going to be coming to your door, nor will your local police to collect your guns.
This is death by a thousand cuts... Police will be called because your neighbor is tired of hearing your shit and call in a noise complaint, pd will show up, see you have one of "those" stocks and issue a court appearance, collecting the firearm for evidence with the promise of returning firearm pending out come.
Substitute whatever reason you want for police contact above and you will now have how it will go down.
A lot of folks will have sold their ARs at gun shows, or lost them in boating accidents. Their cans will have been stolen, the night before they received notice turn them over.Probably more like this. Big data. The feds will have a list of almost everyone with a brace. And almost everyone with an AR. How did they get this list? By seeing that you bought an AR accessory on Amazon. By hacking SB's shipping list. By looking thru 50 million 4473 scans. And the cherry on top, by looking at the NFA list of morons who registered their SBRs in 2023. So what will they do with this info?
One day, they will promulgate a rule saying something like AR-15s are machine guns. (Recall the bumpstock?) Because they can't be registered, they must be turned in. This rule will be posted in the congressional record and most of these people will get a letter telling them how to turn in their "machine gun".
So no, the ATF is not coming to your house. But until you turn your Ar-15 in, certain things will happen. Your CDL will be suspended. Your nursing license will be suspended. Your 1040 won't be accepted. Your credit card will be turned off. Your EBT card will be dead. Your pilot's ATP rating will be suspended. Your medical license will be suspended. Your smart phone won't work. Your kids won't be able to register for school.
That's how they will do it.
Good luck with that.A lot of folks will have sold their ARs at gun shows, or lost them in boating accidents. Their cans will have been stolen, the night before they received notice turn them over.
"manufactured". does that apply to factory lowers that were purchased as a receiver only and then built into either rifles or pistols?This. The pistol to rifle and back again conundrum only applies to how it was originally manufactured. If it was manufactured as a rifle, it cannot be configured as a pistol. However, if it was originally manufactured as a pistol, it can be made into a rifle, then back into a pistol. This was confirmed by the TC Contender case a few decades ago…
United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Co. - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
exactly. they are a soulless federal agency. It's like the line from Mel Brooks.Good luck with that.
and the technology is already patented for the biometric data and the cryptocurrency idea they are trying to push. Patent 666, of all things.Probably more like this. Big data. The feds will have a list of almost everyone with a brace. And almost everyone with an AR. How did they get this list? By seeing that you bought an AR accessory on Amazon. By hacking SB's shipping list. By looking thru 50 million 4473 scans. And the cherry on top, by looking at the NFA list of morons who registered their SBRs in 2023. So what will they do with this info?
One day, they will promulgate a rule saying something like AR-15s are machine guns. (Recall the bumpstock?) Because they can't be registered, they must be turned in. This rule will be posted in the congressional record and most of these people will get a letter telling them how to turn in their "machine gun".
So no, the ATF is not coming to your house. But until you turn your Ar-15 in, certain things will happen. Your CDL will be suspended. Your nursing license will be suspended. Your 1040 won't be accepted. Your credit card will be turned off. Your EBT card will be dead. Your pilot's ATP rating will be suspended. Your medical license will be suspended. Your smart phone won't work. Your kids won't be able to register for school.
That's how they will do it.
BAFTE has already stated they will not approve Form 1 submittals from applicants in states where SBRs are illegal.So does this rule essentially reclassify AR/Ak pistols to SBRs?
Only reason I ask is because states like IL, SBRs and silencers are illegal. So if in a state where SBRs are already banned but pistols were legal, if you registered it as a free NFA item you would in theory get a knock on the door from a 3 letter agency or state police for possession of an SBR right?
I doubt many people will comply with this rule to begin with, just curious.
I’m all for GOA, but I’m confused on why they’re assuming anyone’s background check will take longer than 88 days. I’m not putting anything past the ATF with all of this new nonsense, they may try to pull something, but traditionally, wait time is not due to the background check itself taking that long. Otherwise all of us that have waited 1 yr + for a suppressor would’ve gotten a knock at the door. For the record, I don’t think there should be a NFA, but looking at this video I think (I hope) some communication wires might’ve gotten crossed somewhere.
BAFTE has already stated they will not approve Form 1 submittals from applicants in states where SBRs are illegal.
When the Constitution was written, flintlocks were the firearms of the day for civilians and military alike. Since the 2nd A protects flintlocks and they were military firearms, the 2nd A protects the right of the people to own military weaponsThis phrase doesn’t mean what you think it means.
When the amendment was written, “regulated” meant in good working order.
As in a well regulated watch keeps time to the second.
Under the founders meaning, a “well regulated militia” is one that is correctly equipped and trained in the use of small arms and infantry tactics, and so is capable of acting in the defense of the people and the state.
In other words, the people should have unfettered access to military small arms and training.
BAFTE has already stated they will not approve Form 1 submittals from applicants in states where SBRs are illegal.
For anyone keeping track the final rule has not yet been published in the Federal Register. The 120 days has not yet started.