Need to get rid of that fagbag LaPierre and put someone competent in his place.
BIDENS STABILIZER BAN
- Thread starter summitsitter
- Start date
Need to get rid of that fagbag LaPierre and put someone competent in his place.
I’ve been studying the NFA and related legal discussions on the 2A since I was a kid, because I asked the adults I respected who should have been knowledgeable about the subject, “Grandpa, Dad, why can’t I have an M-16? I want an M-16."
I heard all kinds of evasive answers that told me they didn’t really know. I eventually learned it had something to do with some agency called the ATF and legislation Congress passed in 1934 to go after gangsters, which still didn’t make any sense. “What does this have to do with me and my M-16?"
I then learned that I could get an M-16, if we applied for the right paperwork, paid a special tax to exercise that right to this weird agency. It seemed odd and much different than the normal process of just going to the gun store and buying one. It never made sense.
Fast forward several decades, after learning more and seeing conflicting information from various dealers, supposed experts, gun writers, and Fudds, and I got tired of all the speculation and just printed out the 1934 NFA Hearings, held by the 73rd Congress on April 16, 18, and May 14, 15, and 16 of that year.
What I read was astounding. These guys had no real respect for the Constitution, and were pretty brazen in how they approached its restrictions. The AG was an abject retard who thought there were 500,000 gangsters roaming around with Thompson SMGs and Colt Automatics (1911s). The Asst AG was equally deficit in the brains department. Colt had to be brought in to testify that they had only made a limited number of them for Auto Ordnance, and most of them went to police, banks, postal service, USMC, and the FBI. They had been on the civilian market since 1921, but didn’t sell well due to their price.
For those that don’t know, former DNC Chairman and then Attorney General Homer Stille Cummings, was one of the main proponents and drafters of the NFA. Very early on in the testimony on Day 1, the following exchange took place between Congressman McClintic and the AG:
MR. McCLINTIC: I would like to ask just one question. I am very much interested in this subject. What in your opinion would be the constitutionality of a provision added to this bill which would require registration, on the part of those who now own the type or class of weapons that are included in this bill?
ATTORNEY GENERAL CUMMINGS: We were afraid of that, sir.
MR. McCLINTIC: Afraid it would conflict with State laws?
ATTORNEY GENERAL CUMMINGS: I am afraid it would be unconstitutional.
Former DNC Chairman and then Attorney General Homer Still Cummings
As you read through the NFA hearings, you find crazy things like this on almost every page.
AG Cummings basically wanted a way to arrest and convict guys like Dillinger (they mentioned Dillinger many times throughout the hearings) without any due process:
AG Cummings: "…And I am assuming in all this, of course, that the criminal elements are not going to obtain permits and they are not going to obtain licenses, and they are not going to be able to bring themselves within those protective requirements. Therefore, when we capture one of those people, we have simply a plain question to propound to him—where is your license; where is your permit? If he cannot show it, we have got him and his weapons and we do not have to go through an elaborate trial, with all kinds of complicated questions arising. That is the theory of the bill.”
"Now, you say that it is easy for criminals to get weapons. I know it; but I want to make it easy to convict them when they have the weapons. That is the point of it. I do not expect criminals to comply with this law; I do not expect the underworld to be going around giving their fingerprints and getting permits to carry these weapons, but I want to be in a position, when I find such a person, to convict him because he has not complied.”
Summary: I want to avoid due process of law when I find a suspected bootlegger, bank robber, or gangster and charge him with firearms possession, with no real way for him to defend himself in court.
The NFA was drafted as a knee-jerk reaction to the criminal gangsters that Congress created with Prohibition, but only the ones who hadn’t bought off enough Congressmen, Senators, Presidents, Mayors, Police Chiefs, etc. Prohibition thoroughly corrupted the US from sea to shining sea, with a few exceptions in dry counties.
The huge bootlegger bosses like Joseph P. Kennedy and Arnold Rothstein didn’t like the smaller ones edging into their markets, so they used corrupt law enforcement to go after the "little operations”. So Papa Joe Kennedy’s net worth went from $4 million to $180 million in 6 years, while Al Capone got rolled up and charged with tax evasion, sent to Alcatraz.
JFK (L), Papa Joe (center), and Joe Jr. (killed in APHRODITE in WWII)
Drunkard Eliot Ness (L), Chicago Outfit Crime Boss Al Capone (R)
The boozer Eliot Ness then got sent away from the big cities to persecute bootleggers in the Ozarks and Ohio, even burning down shanty towns looking for his suspects. 3 failed marriages and a DUI accident later, and he was a washed-up common bum telling stories at the local bar before he died a drunk at age 54. Hollywood (a creation of organized crime) would idolize him right along with the gangsters in films. In ATF lore, Eliot Ness is a hero to be emulated, while the truth about his life has been suppressed and replaced with a comic book story for the masses.
The NFA was drafted after Prohibition ended in 1933, but there were still residual opportunists engaged in organized and violent crime in its wake. The big gangsters had taken over the government by that stage:
1. Papa Joe Kennedy was made the new SEC Chairman after swindling millions from people in Wall St. scams.
2. FDR was in the WH with Kennedy money and Hollywood influence having gotten him elected, along with help from other big organized crime bosses.
3. Meyer Lansky organized a multi-billion organization called The National Crime Syndicate, whose revenue were being invested into legitimate businesses and political briberies.
The big gangsters were rolling in cash-flow from prostitution, illegal narcotics, import duties secured for alcohol during Prohibition at bargain deals, racketeering, gambling halls, slot machine parlors, night clubs and expanding their empire across the US after solidifying its foothold during Prohibition. It was now in their interests to protect the banks where they deposited their collective billions each year. They didn’t like little wannabe gangsters like Dillinger and Bonny and Clyde running around upsetting things, so just as they corrupted law enforcement during Prohibition in all the major cities, it was now time to expand the same model to the Federal level and go after the little gangsters.
It should be no surprise that Homer Stille Cummings was the DNC Chairman who campaigned hard for FDR to get elected. The DNC was thoroughly in-bed with the unions and organized crime. The unions had seen a huge decline in members from 1923-1933, but when FDR got elected, one of the first acts he passed was the collective bargaining ability under the National Industrial Recovery Act of June, 1933. That act created the Public Works Administration as well, and laid the groundwork for a resurgence of unions in the US.
Anyway, such was the political, legal, and criminal nature of US government at the time. Under that context, we read through the NFA Hearings of 1934. If you’re not much of a reader, suffice it to know that the AG and proponent of the NFA openly admitted it was unconstitutional on Day 1.
If you haven’t read through the NRA President and Executive Officer’s testimonies before Congress during the NFA Hearings, they are a mixed bag. Without them, especially President Karl T. Fredrick, pistols would have been NFA items since that time, which was one of the main targets of Organized Crime stooge and US Attorney General Homer Stille Cummings.
The NRA President was a multiple Olympic Gold Medal winner in pistol, and had over 1000 pistols in his collection. He felt it would be excessive and unconstitutional for them to charge a stamp tax for each of his pistols, and he also recounted how the NRA kept track of all the newspaper clippings of incidents where people exercised their rights to keep and bear arms to protect themselves.
Many of the Congressmen scoffed at him and his assertions that pistols could be used for self protection. They had very lengthy debates about the 2nd Amendment, Bill of Rights, rights of the People versus this crime-fighting initiative launched by the AG, with the blessing of FDR.
The NRA President and XO went along with the restrictions/excessive taxation scheme on machine-guns for some reason. I never gave them permission to act on my behalf, nor did any of us, so their agreement with organized crime representatives masquerading as government officials has no merit to me from a legal perspective, except when they argued against any of the proposed infringements on the 2A, 4A, 5A, and due process of law.
A benefit we are seeing from the NRA losing its influence lately is that multiple organizations and local sheriffs are fighting back against the ATF. NRA could easily be penetrated and corrupted, whereas multiple tentacles are much harder to identify and deal with for criminals in government.
TLDR: ATF is literally a criminal organization started by high-level criminal stooges in government who were owned by the National Crime Syndicate.
Once the FDR admin got into the WH, they appointed high positions of government to their friends, as Presidents do, and one of these political friends pushed for a Congressional act to help the big crime organizations shut down all the little ones by means of confiscating their firearms, then prosecuting them without due process, in a special ATF kangaroo court system.
This is why guys who get thrown in Federal prison for 7-10 years for exercising their rights never have a chance to go through any due process. The whole thing is literally the construct of gangsters and their paid-off politicians from 1934, nothing more.
It’s an antiquated system that wasn’t even remotely Constitutional by their own admissions during days of Congressional testimony, but helped racketeers disarm the populace from being able to protect themselves. An armed populace exercising their rights defeats racketeering at an organic level, so they passed NYC’s pistol/billy club/blackjack/stiletto bans with the Sullivan Act already back in 1911, which was wholly unconstitutional and part of the big Irish Democrat Tammany Hall political machine gangsters who didn’t like all the Italians, Russian Jews, Sicilians, Poles, etc, coming in and getting uppity.
They banned the possession of any arms that could be concealed, and issued permits to their racketeer enforcers, who were often police officers “doing security” on the side on weekends.
Once the FDR admin got into the WH, they appointed high positions of government to their friends, as Presidents do, and one of these political friends pushed for a Congressional act to help the big crime organizations shut down all the little ones by means of confiscating their firearms, then prosecuting them without due process, in a special ATF kangaroo court system.
This is why guys who get thrown in Federal prison for 7-10 years for exercising their rights never have a chance to go through any due process. The whole thing is literally the construct of gangsters and their paid-off politicians from 1934, nothing more.
It’s an antiquated system that wasn’t even remotely Constitutional by their own admissions during days of Congressional testimony, but helped racketeers disarm the populace from being able to protect themselves. An armed populace exercising their rights defeats racketeering at an organic level, so they passed NYC’s pistol/billy club/blackjack/stiletto bans with the Sullivan Act already back in 1911, which was wholly unconstitutional and part of the big Irish Democrat Tammany Hall political machine gangsters who didn’t like all the Italians, Russian Jews, Sicilians, Poles, etc, coming in and getting uppity.
They banned the possession of any arms that could be concealed, and issued permits to their racketeer enforcers, who were often police officers “doing security” on the side on weekends.
Last edited:
The SBR provisions of the NFA were an unforeseen blunder. AG Cummings had no intent of even mentioning rifles in the NFA original draft, and they were not included in it. The original draft included shotguns with barrels shorter than 16”, which they called sawed-off shotguns, because they were used by gangsters. It also included machine-guns, pistols, and silencers or mufflers.
Within minutes of the AG saying a registration scheme would be unconstitutional, a numbskull retard from Minnesota, Congressman Knutson, asked the AG if he wouldn’t mind if they amended the bill to include rifles as well, and for extra credit, why not increase the barrel length to 18”.
From Page 13 of the NFA Hearings
Mr. Knutson: General, would there be any objection, on page 1, line 4, after the word “shotgun” to add the words “or rifle” having a barrel less than 18”? The reason I ask that is I happen to come from a section of the State where deer hunting is a very popular pastime in the fall of the year and, of course, I would not like to pass any legislation to forbid or make it impossible for our people to keep arms that would permit them to hunt deer.
AG Cummings: Well, as long as it is not mentioned at all, it would not interfere at all. (The gun-grabbing AG was literally telling him there was no need to even mention rifles.)
Mr. Knutson: It seems to me that an 18-inch barrel would make this provision stronger than 16 inches, knowing what I do about firearms.
AG Cummings: Well, there is no objection as far as we are concerned to including rifles after the word “shotguns” if you desire.
Mr. Knutson: Why should we permit the manufacture, that is, permit the sale of the machine guns to any one outside of the several branches of the Government-for instance, the Federal Government, the sheriff’s officers, and State constabularies?
AG Cummings: Well, there are other conceivable uses. For instance, in banking institutions, we want to protect the banks.
Page 14 excerpt
AG Cummings: The same company, if I recall correctly, the Colt Co., manufactures the Browning gun. But the Browning gun is not easily transportable; it is a large, cumbersome weapon that would probably not be used by the criminal class. So that it is not absolutely necessary to bother with it.
Congressman Knutson was a Nazi sympathizer during World War II, even after Dec. 1941. He was listed in Nazi documents found after the war as an asset for them. The heyday an attorney or team of attorneys could have with the NFA in court would be brutal.
This whole cursed SBR provision came from a retard Nazi sympathizer who wanted to protect deer-hunting back home. That’s literally why we have the SBR provision added to the NFA. When they went around on the last day of finalizing the bill, they almost forgot about it, but Knutson piped-in again and reminded them of the conversation about increasing the barrel length for both shotguns and rifles.
This whole thing is simply a complete and utterly-profane violation of actual US Law.
Within minutes of the AG saying a registration scheme would be unconstitutional, a numbskull retard from Minnesota, Congressman Knutson, asked the AG if he wouldn’t mind if they amended the bill to include rifles as well, and for extra credit, why not increase the barrel length to 18”.
From Page 13 of the NFA Hearings
Mr. Knutson: General, would there be any objection, on page 1, line 4, after the word “shotgun” to add the words “or rifle” having a barrel less than 18”? The reason I ask that is I happen to come from a section of the State where deer hunting is a very popular pastime in the fall of the year and, of course, I would not like to pass any legislation to forbid or make it impossible for our people to keep arms that would permit them to hunt deer.
AG Cummings: Well, as long as it is not mentioned at all, it would not interfere at all. (The gun-grabbing AG was literally telling him there was no need to even mention rifles.)
Mr. Knutson: It seems to me that an 18-inch barrel would make this provision stronger than 16 inches, knowing what I do about firearms.
AG Cummings: Well, there is no objection as far as we are concerned to including rifles after the word “shotguns” if you desire.
Mr. Knutson: Why should we permit the manufacture, that is, permit the sale of the machine guns to any one outside of the several branches of the Government-for instance, the Federal Government, the sheriff’s officers, and State constabularies?
AG Cummings: Well, there are other conceivable uses. For instance, in banking institutions, we want to protect the banks.
Page 14 excerpt
AG Cummings: The same company, if I recall correctly, the Colt Co., manufactures the Browning gun. But the Browning gun is not easily transportable; it is a large, cumbersome weapon that would probably not be used by the criminal class. So that it is not absolutely necessary to bother with it.
Congressman Knutson was a Nazi sympathizer during World War II, even after Dec. 1941. He was listed in Nazi documents found after the war as an asset for them. The heyday an attorney or team of attorneys could have with the NFA in court would be brutal.
This whole cursed SBR provision came from a retard Nazi sympathizer who wanted to protect deer-hunting back home. That’s literally why we have the SBR provision added to the NFA. When they went around on the last day of finalizing the bill, they almost forgot about it, but Knutson piped-in again and reminded them of the conversation about increasing the barrel length for both shotguns and rifles.
This whole thing is simply a complete and utterly-profane violation of actual US Law.
Last edited:
Another thing that’s absolutely crazy about the NFA: They never even discussed silencers. I can’t find mention of silencers other than them being listed in the draft and the final bill. Other people have mentioned this, but since I don’t trust anyone to do my reading for me, I poured through the whole thing myself, highlighting and tabbing pages where these egregious violations of our laws jump out. Nothing about silencers, mufflers, or suppressors is ever discussed.
Imagine an accessory that was never even discussed in legislation leading to the arrest and imprisonment of untold numbers of people, taxed at $200 a pop, with threats of $250,000 fines and imprisonment up to 10 years.
100% unconstitutional, illegal, and criminal misuse of the legislative process. Also, punishable by USC 18 sections 241 and 242.
Imagine an accessory that was never even discussed in legislation leading to the arrest and imprisonment of untold numbers of people, taxed at $200 a pop, with threats of $250,000 fines and imprisonment up to 10 years.
100% unconstitutional, illegal, and criminal misuse of the legislative process. Also, punishable by USC 18 sections 241 and 242.
<... >
Damn those numbskull retard legislators from Minnesota.
If they aren't mucking up legislation they're off grabbing the tittys of sleeping service women!
Yes, silencers are only mentioned in the initial and final drafts. They were never discussed during the 5 days of actual hearings. No reasons, discussions, conversations, questions, or testimony was recorded about why silencers were included in the NFA.
Hearings 1932b.
babel.hathitrust.org
The only other place I see them mentioned is here
but no record of open discussion that I have seen either.
Many bills are passed which the details are not openly discussed. Hell look at omibus that was passed before the 2022 Christmas holiday. While I don’t agree with what they did, it doesn’t seem out of the ordinary of “ business as usual” in DC.
Imo States are going to have to stand up. I am hearing reports of Sheriffs across the nation refusing to co operation.
I have the whole 1934 NFA hearings printed out, tabbed, spiral bound, and highlighted.
That Commerce Committee hearings screen shot is not from the NFA. NFA was April 16 & 18, then May 14, 15, & 16, 1934 before the Committee on Ways and Means in the House of Representatives.
That’s from May 28 and 29, 1934 under Commerce, to tax small arms, and regulate imports and interstate traffic of them. They also included a blackjack, sawed-off shotgun, brass knuckles, tear gas pistol, and ammunition for such weapons. That’s on page 1 of those bills.
That Commerce Committee hearings screen shot is not from the NFA. NFA was April 16 & 18, then May 14, 15, & 16, 1934 before the Committee on Ways and Means in the House of Representatives.
That’s from May 28 and 29, 1934 under Commerce, to tax small arms, and regulate imports and interstate traffic of them. They also included a blackjack, sawed-off shotgun, brass knuckles, tear gas pistol, and ammunition for such weapons. That’s on page 1 of those bills.
Seems to me that this new ATF scam about braces is a great opportunity for SCOTUS, to right a major wrong with all of this NFS nonsense
The NRA is not on our side, and hasn't been for years.
NRA-ILA | Updates to ATF Final Rule on Stabilizing Braces
On Monday, January 30, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives’ (ATF) published the final Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached “Stabilizing Braces” rule for public inspection in the federal register.www.nraila.org
There are some interesting clarifications in this article, and considering it comes from NRA I consider that info reliable.
I'm a Benefactor Life member. I've purchased Life memberships for my wife, son, daughter, and daughter-in-law. Up until Oct. 2017, I made quarterly donations to the ILA. You could say I'm invested in the NRA.
On Oct. 2nd, 2017, I mailed a check for $500 to the ILA. On Oct. 5th, I put a stop-payment on that check and ordered tar and feathers from Amazon and had them sent to Wayne LaPierre and Chris Cox. The NRA will not get another nickel from me until Wayne & Co. are gone and I see that the NRA is back on track.
My wife and I, along with several friends, were at the 2019 convention when WLPs shenanigans started to come really come to light. I was able to meet LTC. West, shake his hand, and thank him for what he was trying to do. A few other board members who where on our side, as well. Tim Knight stands out.
The current incarnation of the NRA needs to be burned to the ground.
The disillusion with NRA’s behavior is one of the better things to come out of the fight over the past several years, because instead of them being able to control the narrative through a single bottleneck, we now have multiple organizations, avenues, and more buy-in from people who get irate with their Reps and Sheriffs.
Before, they would just see the NRA write a strongly-worded letter, and say, “Well, I guess they’re doing the best they can to fight for us."
Before, they would just see the NRA write a strongly-worded letter, and say, “Well, I guess they’re doing the best they can to fight for us."
At this time I am convinced that we can get silencers and SBRs ripped out of the NFA by challenging them in court for review under Bruen.
The last weeks have seen TROs and rulings against:
New Assault Weapons Bans and firearm restrictions (IL/NJ/NY)
Existing Assault Weapons Bans and magazine restrictions (CA)
loss of 2nd amendment rights for people under restraining orders (TX) (Was this the Lautenberg rule?)
loss of 2nd amendment rights for people with drug convictions (MJ) (Oklahoma)
loss of carry privileges for non-violent felony convictions
TRO against existing CT AOW restrictions due to ATF Pistol Brace reclassifications (this is huge and impacts other states wherein the ex-Pistol is now an illegal AOW)
Getting a court case where the silencer/SBR portions of the NFA are challenged under Bruen historical text and tradition standards should see them eliminated. A key element in said review of laws is where the judge has to eliminate the govt right to act for public safety reasons (I forget the legal term for this). Its been a key weapon for them and its gone.
The left and the gun control loonies are only starting to realize that just about everything they accomplished in the last 40 years is slowing getting flushed down the shitter.
The last weeks have seen TROs and rulings against:
New Assault Weapons Bans and firearm restrictions (IL/NJ/NY)
Existing Assault Weapons Bans and magazine restrictions (CA)
loss of 2nd amendment rights for people under restraining orders (TX) (Was this the Lautenberg rule?)
loss of 2nd amendment rights for people with drug convictions (MJ) (Oklahoma)
loss of carry privileges for non-violent felony convictions
TRO against existing CT AOW restrictions due to ATF Pistol Brace reclassifications (this is huge and impacts other states wherein the ex-Pistol is now an illegal AOW)
Getting a court case where the silencer/SBR portions of the NFA are challenged under Bruen historical text and tradition standards should see them eliminated. A key element in said review of laws is where the judge has to eliminate the govt right to act for public safety reasons (I forget the legal term for this). Its been a key weapon for them and its gone.
The left and the gun control loonies are only starting to realize that just about everything they accomplished in the last 40 years is slowing getting flushed down the shitter.
26 States have now enjoined together with the lawsuit against the pistol brace fiasco, along with SB Tactical, B&T, and a disabled veteran.
I was getting ready to write to our State AG to recommend this, but he’s ahead of the power curve.
ATF checked off so many boxes with violations of the Articles of the Constitution, multiple SCOTUS rulings, actual Congressional laws protecting the people from nefarious attacks on our birthrights, that they are going to be curb-stomped in court.
I was getting ready to write to our State AG to recommend this, but he’s ahead of the power curve.
ATF checked off so many boxes with violations of the Articles of the Constitution, multiple SCOTUS rulings, actual Congressional laws protecting the people from nefarious attacks on our birthrights, that they are going to be curb-stomped in court.
It wouldn't have taken 40 years if we still had balls like they did 250 years ago. They must shrink and become useless over time.
Problem is the findings get appealed and held up in courts forever and the citizen continues to get screwed out of their rights! What punishment is there for passing blatantly un-Constitutional laws? Rhetorical question, I know the answer.
Its going to take individual states to write laws to stand up to this, like Texas did with suppressors . I personally feel that is the place to start, especially when I see what's going on at the federal level.
The ATF does not have enough man power to enforce much, if State and local law enforcement doesn't help them.
The ATF does not have enough man power to enforce much, if State and local law enforcement doesn't help them.
The Great Depression, World War II, and 1950s-forward involved a lot of public schooling and media propaganda to promote the idea that FDR and Progressives were the American Way, while making movies about Eliot Ness and his hand-selected band of agents tackling organized crime. It was all BS designed to lull people into sheep.
SC of Oregon denied state request to implement the magazine ban as part of State Gun Control Referendum.
This is a ruling that keeps in place the lower court stoppage of the Gun Control Law.
It was stopped because it was set to go active (the licensing portion for purchasing) before the state had a licensing mechanism.
And a 2nd Chinese Balloon was taken down as it entered US territorial waters near Alaska @40K feet.
This is a ruling that keeps in place the lower court stoppage of the Gun Control Law.
It was stopped because it was set to go active (the licensing portion for purchasing) before the state had a licensing mechanism.
And a 2nd Chinese Balloon was taken down as it entered US territorial waters near Alaska @40K feet.
Last edited:
The NRA helped Biden to get the first AWB passed. That should have told all of you everything you needed to know
Why don’t some of you fucktards proofread your posts before you make yourselves look so stupid?
Why, because then we would miss out on high quality contributions like yours!
NRA has screwed up a lot of things but they fought the 1994 AWB with one of the most energetic campaigns against 2A violations of their history. They also fought the 1989 CA AWB Roberti-Roos Bill with a big front-page fold-out add showing all the types of rifles the CA AWB would ban in the April '89 American Rifleman.
Democratic Congressman Jack Brooks from Texas actually tried to get the AWB section removed from the Clinton, Feinstein, Biden Crime Bill of 1994 because he knew it would result in a Democrat shellacking in November. That November, the biggest turnover of the House and Senate in US History happened (until post-Obamacare), and a lot of that was due to the NRA’s messaging and communication to its members.
Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, and Gerald Ford all wrote a letter to Congress asking them to support the 1994 AWB.
George H.W. Bush did not join in on that former President effort, even though he signed the infamous Bush importation ban of 1989.
You have to dispassionately look at the facts and realize things get more complex than just R vs D, favorite President vs the dirtbags, etc.
Last edited:
100% I agree with this statement. I too am a life member and they will not got one more penny from me until this regime is gone.
So I was watching the Armed Overly Explanatory Scholar on youtube. His new video goes in the SAF suit vs. the Stabilizer ban. It seems like a solid procedural one, taking on the numerous areas where the ATF is redefining existing law and enumerates on just about every bit of their regulatory overreach.
I had to unsubscribe from that guy. His click bait titles and 5-9 minute videos where his final conclusion is "its still in the courts hands" are unwatchable to me now.
First let me get this out of the way. The ATF and NFA need to be abolished. They are tyrannical and unconstitutional.
Now for all of the people saying "There aren't enough agents, what can they do?"
Well lets look at what is happening already
1. We have seen videos of agents sometimes 3-4 going to a persons home, out of the blue, and asking to see their firearms. From the videos we have seen, most of the individuals have not complied. However how many people have complied and we have just never seen it? These agents have full time jobs. They are out and about.
2. Take the glock switch for example. The ATF coordinates with local or state ERS or SWAT teams to go to every house they suspect of having one of the switches. These raids happen all over the country, multiple times a week.
3. A lot of people talk a tough game online or to friends and family about what they would do if the ATF came to their door. I'm sure we've all been guilty of that. However, when faced with a SWAT team breaching your door at 3 in the morning, your wife screaming and your kids crying... 99% of us would comply. Im sure there is some keyboard warrior that is itching to say that there is no way he would comply not matter what. Well good for you bud, maybe you are that 1%. However statistics and history are not in favor of EVERYONE being part of that 1%. Unfortunately history also shows that the 1% who do resists also rarely make it out alive.
Resisting as an individual will get you no where aside from an early grave or the rest of your life in prison.
Resisting as small groups also has not turned out well under the tyrannical ATF. Wako being a prime example.
Resisting in large organized numbers is how its done, through groups like GOA or the like. Eventually there will come a time where we will need to take these groups offline and start organizing in the numbers like we have seen in the BLM riots etc.. That is the only meaningful way.
I understand that organizing like that is very hard for the gun community. We would have every media station, news organization, social media company, politician (right and left) etc.. blocking us, banning us, blacking us out, dehumanizing and vilifying us. All that would happen if we could even get together to organize. But, at the end of the day, that is what needs to happen if we are going to have any meaningful impact to curb mass government over reach. My guess is that something will spark this kind of protest. Wako and Ruby Ridge were too long ago for most Americans to remember or care about and the main stream media during that time had 100% control over the narrative. However I feel that an event like that happening again, might be enough to get the ball rolling, as horrific as it would be. The media has lost their death grip on the narrative and people are able to see and hear things that the Gov doesn't want them to. Usually its called dis or misinformation. (See past 3 years for reference)
Only time will tell I guess.
Now for all of the people saying "There aren't enough agents, what can they do?"
Well lets look at what is happening already
1. We have seen videos of agents sometimes 3-4 going to a persons home, out of the blue, and asking to see their firearms. From the videos we have seen, most of the individuals have not complied. However how many people have complied and we have just never seen it? These agents have full time jobs. They are out and about.
2. Take the glock switch for example. The ATF coordinates with local or state ERS or SWAT teams to go to every house they suspect of having one of the switches. These raids happen all over the country, multiple times a week.
3. A lot of people talk a tough game online or to friends and family about what they would do if the ATF came to their door. I'm sure we've all been guilty of that. However, when faced with a SWAT team breaching your door at 3 in the morning, your wife screaming and your kids crying... 99% of us would comply. Im sure there is some keyboard warrior that is itching to say that there is no way he would comply not matter what. Well good for you bud, maybe you are that 1%. However statistics and history are not in favor of EVERYONE being part of that 1%. Unfortunately history also shows that the 1% who do resists also rarely make it out alive.
Resisting as an individual will get you no where aside from an early grave or the rest of your life in prison.
Resisting as small groups also has not turned out well under the tyrannical ATF. Wako being a prime example.
Resisting in large organized numbers is how its done, through groups like GOA or the like. Eventually there will come a time where we will need to take these groups offline and start organizing in the numbers like we have seen in the BLM riots etc.. That is the only meaningful way.
I understand that organizing like that is very hard for the gun community. We would have every media station, news organization, social media company, politician (right and left) etc.. blocking us, banning us, blacking us out, dehumanizing and vilifying us. All that would happen if we could even get together to organize. But, at the end of the day, that is what needs to happen if we are going to have any meaningful impact to curb mass government over reach. My guess is that something will spark this kind of protest. Wako and Ruby Ridge were too long ago for most Americans to remember or care about and the main stream media during that time had 100% control over the narrative. However I feel that an event like that happening again, might be enough to get the ball rolling, as horrific as it would be. The media has lost their death grip on the narrative and people are able to see and hear things that the Gov doesn't want them to. Usually its called dis or misinformation. (See past 3 years for reference)
Only time will tell I guess.
That is exactly what I did, for the same reasons. His shitty titles sound like there was a ruling and its rarely the case.
I got weak last night though.
Also, instead of giving an update he would recite the entire case, every freaking time.
I do recommend 4 Boxes Diner. While he can be rather strident but he sticks to facts and good legal arguments.
He also gets to the point quick. As much depth as you want.
He isn't click baity, and he will do short updates.
He puts out updates on every major case going.
If I recall correctly they were added due to fears of “poaching” for meat during the Great Depression, livestock or otherwise.
People have speculated for generations about why Silencers/Mufflers were included in the NFA. We just don’t have any discussion from the proceedings to explain the reasoning behind it. There are no source documents or discussions from the 1934 NFA hearings that I’m aware of, and scholars throughout the years have searched, finding nothing. It’s one reason why I printed out the NFA and studied it so extensively over the years. I had assumed that they had at least one little conversation or mentioning of why they included silencers/mufflers. They simply didn’t.
I’ve been looking through some of the State bans on specific firearms in the 1920s, which is where the 12rd magazine capacity + semi auto = machine-gun in some of the legislators’ minds came from during the NFA hearings. That discussion actually happened, and the NRA's General Reckord shut it down and set the definition of a semi-automatic firearm as one where a single action of the trigger results in one cartridge fired.
Certain members of Congress were trying to define semi autos as machine-guns, as had been done in Rhode Island with the 12rd automatic/semi-automatic ban.
I saw something where there was discussion about a particular crime committed with a suppressed rifle, but can’t find the reference anymore.
We just don’t know why the NFA included suppressors/silencers/mufflers. Congress and the DoJ were equally-ignorant then as they are now about all things firearms-related. Many of the comments were preposterously-uninformed and grossly erroneous.
I did learn that in addition to being a Nazi sympathizer/asset later during WWII, Congressman Knutson (who put us in this position with SBRs), was caught and arrested for sodomy in Arlington with a Bureau of Labor employee in 1924.
Arlington, Virginia is right across the Potomac from historic DC, where ANC is located. It’s part of the DC metro area. Looks like Knutson liked to go engage in homosexual acts in between screwing over the electorate. His Congressional colleagues came to his aid during his trial, testifying to his good moral character. That city and legislative body has been eyeball-deep in the swamp for much longer than most would ever know.
Last edited:
The is no such thing as Justice, let alone equal justice under the law. They (both parties) trample over the Constitution every day. And when has the Republican Party when they had majorities done anything about this or any other egregious laws (death tax, emanate domain, and many others)? They don't stand with us and neither does the Supreme Court. Lower your expectations to zero so you won't be disappointed yet again. Until the head of the snake is removed, it will be death by 1000 cuts.
Sorry to be Debbie Downer but those are the facts.
Sorry to be Debbie Downer but those are the facts.
We’ve had a lot of wins over the past 30 years.
When I was a kid, Concealed Carry was only for "special people", relatively unheard of outside of Diane Feinstein and her Husband, judges, LEOs, and security guards for those "special people”. We went from that to a wave of shall-issue States, and now a new wave of Constitutional carry States:
AR-15s were seen as something negative by a lot of gun owners, with no useful or legitimate purpose other than to buy because people saw them in movies. If you were a new AR-15 manufacturer at SHOT, you were seen as an eyesore.
The general consensus among academia and the liberal elites who controlled media and universities was that the 2A was an outdated concept with no bearing to modern America, and was only for a militia that no longer exists. Heller kinda curb-stomped that from a SCOTUS perspective.
"Saturday Night Specials” were the targeted firearm class at the time, "inherently-evil with no purpose other than cheap kills in the inner city”. Multiple SCOTUS decisions have eliminated that faulty concept.
The Clinton/Biden/Feinstein Assault Weapons Ban went into effect in 1994. Spine-split, dented, unreliable pre-ban AR-15 mags went for $60-$80 a pop. LEO Glock Mags with the LE/Gov’t Use Only markings ironed out by scammers went for the same. Rifle manufacturers were using existing surplus magazines to design actions around, like ArmaLite Inc., CMMG, RRA, etc. Even 2 years into the Clinton AWB, this is what the cover of American Rifleman looked like:
Silencers were as rare as hens teeth. I never saw anyone with one in many years of shooting across multiple States, most of which were very friendly States to NFA items ownership pre-1986, back when it was easy to Form-1 an SP-1 into select fire.
Contrast that with today....
CCW is almost the National standard, which is our biggest win in practical terms of day-to-day self and family protection against criminal opportunists.
AR-15s became as common as 10/22s and then proliferated even more. It’s not uncommon for gun owners to have multiple AR-15s now, and the chamberings for them have increased to support hunting, long range, subsonic suppressed, and long list of wild-catters, collectors, HD, pistol AR-15s by the tens of millions even among 1st-time buyers...
Gun advertisements have almost become standardized with AR-15s as the unquestioned firearm of the US.
Where I live, every time I’ve gone to the range over the past 15 years, someone usually has at least one suppressed firearm, myself included.
When I go to matches out of State, several competitors are shooting suppressed and the silencer industry is more vibrant than it has ever been.
The real loss was a mixed bag with a win in 1986 with FOPA, where list-keeping was forbidden, but anti-freedom types slipped in the Hughes Amendment at the tail end of the debate and closed the MG registry to newly-manufactured MGs.
But it has mostly been win after win at the National level. State level has been a mixed bag as of late, but pistol braces allowed people to own AR-15s in States where AR-15 rifles were banned.
There’s a ton of legislative and judicial momentum in our favor. 26 States filing lawsuit against DOJ/AG/ATF over this is a big deal.
5th Circuit ruling on loss of 2A rights under civil restraining orders (18 USC 922 G8) being unconstitutional (a month ago) was appealed and 5th Circuit restated and reinforced ruling.
And you quoted me why? Please spare me your cheerleading and pretty pictures. Until Republicans in Congress stop abdicating their responsibilities, throw people in jail and proactively defend the constitution, this slow burning of our rights will continue. Thirty years to chip away at the injustices THEY allowed to happen is the part you got right. They had many chances to deal with an out of control ATF and they did nothing.We’ve had a lot of wins over the past 30 years.
When I was a kid, Concealed Carry was only for "special people", relatively unheard of outside of Diane Feinstein and her Husband, judges, LEOs, and security guards for those "special people”. We went from that to a wave of shall-issue States, and now a new wave of Constitutional carry States:
AR-15s were seen as something negative by a lot of gun owners, with no useful or legitimate purpose other than to buy because people saw them in movies. If you were a new AR-15 manufacturer at SHOT, you were seen as an eyesore.
The general consensus among academia and the liberal elites who controlled media and universities was that the 2A was an outdated concept with no bearing to modern America, and was only for a militia that no longer exists. Heller kinda curb-stomped that from a SCOTUS perspective.
"Saturday Night Specials” were the targeted firearm class at the time, "inherently-evil with no purpose other than cheap kills in the inner city”. Multiple SCOTUS decisions have eliminated that faulty concept.
The Clinton/Biden/Feinstein Assault Weapons Ban went into effect in 1994. Spine-split, dented, unreliable pre-ban AR-15 mags went for $60-$80 a pop. LEO Glock Mags with the LE/Gov’t Use Only markings ironed out by scammers went for the same. Rifle manufacturers were using existing surplus magazines to design actions around, like ArmaLite Inc., CMMG, RRA, etc. Even 2 years into the Clinton AWB, this is what the cover of American Rifleman looked like:
Silencers were as rare as hens teeth. I never saw anyone with one in many years of shooting across multiple States, most of which were very friendly States to NFA items ownership pre-1986, back when it was easy to Form-1 an SP-1 into select fire.
Contrast that with today....
CCW is almost the National standard, which is our biggest win in practical terms of day-to-day self and family protection against criminal opportunists.
AR-15s became as common as 10/22s and then proliferated even more. It’s not uncommon for gun owners to have multiple AR-15s now, and the chamberings for them have increased to support hunting, long range, subsonic suppressed, and long list of wild-catters, collectors, HD, pistol AR-15s by the tens of millions even among 1st-time buyers...
Gun advertisements have almost become standardized with AR-15s as the unquestioned firearm of the US.
Where I live, every time I’ve gone to the range over the past 15 years, someone usually has at least one suppressed firearm, myself included.
When I go to matches out of State, several competitors are shooting suppressed and the silencer industry is more vibrant than it has ever been.
The real loss was a mixed bag with a win in 1986 with FOPA, where list-keeping was forbidden, but anti-freedom types slipped in the Hughes Amendment at the tail end of the debate and closed the MG registry to newly-manufactured MGs.
But it has mostly been win after win at the National level. State level has been a mixed bag as of late, but pistol braces allowed people to own AR-15s in States where AR-15 rifles were banned.
There’s a ton of legislative and judicial momentum in our favor. 26 States filing lawsuit against DOJ/AG/ATF over this is a big deal.
I agree with you, but despite all of the RINOs, we got common use CCW for millions, Constitutional Carry in 25 States so far, AR-15s in most gun-owner homes, widespread general use of suppressors, and now over 40 million PDW pistols with braces.
Seems like a lot of winning, regardless of what spineless politicians in DC have been doing. Whatever formula has been creating that, I’m all in favor in continuing it until we nullify the ATF and NFA.
Be careful patting yourself on the back before you dislocate your shoulder again.
And get a wheel or 3 of cheese to go with your whine.
History pornI’ve been studying the NFA and related legal discussions on the 2A since I was a kid, because I asked the adults I respected who should have been knowledgeable about the subject, “Grandpa, Dad, why can’t I have an M-16? I want an M-16."
I heard all kinds of evasive answers that told me they didn’t really know. I eventually learned it had something to do with some agency called the ATF and legislation Congress passed in 1934 to go after gangsters, which still didn’t make any sense. “What does this have to do with me and my M-16?"
I then learned that I could get an M-16, if we applied for the right paperwork, paid a special tax to exercise that right to this weird agency. It seemed odd and much different than the normal process of just going to the gun store and buying one. It never made sense.
Fast forward several decades, after learning more and seeing conflicting information from various dealers, supposed experts, gun writers, and Fudds, and I got tired of all the speculation and just printed out the 1934 NFA Hearings, held by the 73rd Congress on April 16, 18, and May 14, 15, and 16 of that year.
What I read was astounding. These guys had no real respect for the Constitution, and were pretty brazen in how they approached its restrictions. The AG was an abject retard who thought there were 500,000 gangsters roaming around with Thompson SMGs and Colt Automatics (1911s). The Asst AG was equally deficit in the brains department. Colt had to be brought in to testify that they had only made a limited number of them for Auto Ordnance, and most of them went to police, banks, postal service, USMC, and the FBI. They had been on the civilian market since 1921, but didn’t sell well due to their price.
For those that don’t know, former DNC Chairman and then Attorney General Homer Stille Cummings, was one of the main proponents and drafters of the NFA. Very early on in the testimony on Day 1, the following exchange took place between Congressman McClintic and the AG:
MR. McCLINTIC: I would like to ask just one question. I am very much interested in this subject. What in your opinion would be the constitutionality of a provision added to this bill which would require registration, on the part of those who now own the type or class of weapons that are included in this bill?
ATTORNEY GENERAL CUMMINGS: We were afraid of that, sir.
MR. McCLINTIC: Afraid it would conflict with State laws?
ATTORNEY GENERAL CUMMINGS: I am afraid it would be unconstitutional.
Former DNC Chairman and then Attorney General Homer Still Cummings
As you read through the NFA hearings, you find crazy things like this on almost every page.
AG Cummings basically wanted a way to arrest and convict guys like Dillinger (they mentioned Dillinger many times throughout the hearings) without any due process:
AG Cummings: "…And I am assuming in all this, of course, that the criminal elements are not going to obtain permits and they are not going to obtain licenses, and they are not going to be able to bring themselves within those protective requirements. Therefore, when we capture one of those people, we have simply a plain question to propound to him—where is your license; where is your permit? If he cannot show it, we have got him and his weapons and we do not have to go through an elaborate trial, with all kinds of complicated questions arising. That is the theory of the bill.”
"Now, you say that it is easy for criminals to get weapons. I know it; but I want to make it easy to convict them when they have the weapons. That is the point of it. I do not expect criminals to comply with this law; I do not expect the underworld to be going around giving their fingerprints and getting permits to carry these weapons, but I want to be in a position, when I find such a person, to convict him because he has not complied.”
Summary: I want to avoid due process of law when I find a suspected bootlegger, bank robber, or gangster and charge him with firearms possession, with no real way for him to defend himself in court.
The NFA was drafted as a knee-jerk reaction to the criminal gangsters that Congress created with Prohibition, but only the ones who hadn’t bought off enough Congressmen, Senators, Presidents, Mayors, Police Chiefs, etc. Prohibition thoroughly corrupted the US from sea to shining sea, with a few exceptions in dry counties.
The huge bootlegger bosses like Joseph P. Kennedy and Arnold Rothstein didn’t like the smaller ones edging into their markets, so they used corrupt law enforcement to go after the "little operations”. So Papa Joe Kennedy’s net worth went from $4 million to $180 million in 6 years, while Al Capone got rolled up and charged with tax evasion, sent to Alcatraz.
JFK (L), Papa Joe (center), and Joe Jr. (killed in APHRODITE in WWII)
Drunkard Eliot Ness (L), Chicago Outfit Crime Boss Al Capone (R)
The boozer Eliot Ness then got sent away from the big cities to persecute bootleggers in the Ozarks and Ohio, even burning down shanty towns looking for his suspects. 3 failed marriages and a DUI accident later, and he was a washed-up common bum telling stories at the local bar before he died a drunk at age 54. Hollywood (a creation of organized crime) would idolize him right along with the gangsters in films. In ATF lore, Eliot Ness is a hero to be emulated, while the truth about his life has been suppressed and replaced with a comic book story for the masses.
The NFA was drafted after Prohibition ended in 1933, but there were still residual opportunists engaged in organized and violent crime in its wake. The big gangsters had taken over the government by that stage:
1. Papa Joe Kennedy was made the new SEC Chairman after swindling millions from people in Wall St. scams.
2. FDR was in the WH with Kennedy money and Hollywood influence having gotten him elected, along with help from other big organized crime bosses.
3. Meyer Lansky organized a multi-billion organization called The National Crime Syndicate, whose revenue were being invested into legitimate businesses and political briberies.
The big gangsters were rolling in cash-flow from prostitution, illegal narcotics, import duties secured for alcohol during Prohibition at bargain deals, racketeering, gambling halls, slot machine parlors, night clubs and expanding their empire across the US after solidifying its foothold during Prohibition. It was now in their interests to protect the banks where they deposited their collective billions each year. They didn’t like little wannabe gangsters like Dillinger and Bonny and Clyde running around upsetting things, so just as they corrupted law enforcement during Prohibition in all the major cities, it was now time to expand the same model to the Federal level and go after the little gangsters.
It should be no surprise that Homer Stille Cummings was the DNC Chairman who campaigned hard for FDR to get elected. The DNC was thoroughly in-bed with the unions and organized crime. The unions had seen a huge decline in members from 1923-1933, but when FDR got elected, one of the first acts he passed was the collective bargaining ability under the National Industrial Recovery Act of June, 1933. That act created the Public Works Administration as well, and laid the groundwork for a resurgence of unions in the US.
Anyway, such was the political, legal, and criminal nature of US government at the time. Under that context, we read through the NFA Hearings of 1934. If you’re not much of a reader, suffice it to know that the AG and proponent of the NFA openly admitted it was unconstitutional on Day 1.
It actually saddens me beyond words this country's state of affairs. I'm watching it get flushed down the toilet almost real time, and yes to some degree venting here. Then there are morons like you among us on top of everything else!
Similar threads
