Bighorn Origin or TL3

[Brad27]

Hi everyone. I’m thinking about jumping into my first custom. I’m currently shooting a Remington 700 and I’m getting sick of the quality issues I’ve noticed here and there so I decided to just spend the money and get what I actually wanted in the first place. I’m looking at getting either a Bighorn Origin or TL3 barreled action and I’m curious if the $400 difference is notable enough to save a little longer or if I should just spend it on ammo. For the time being my work schedule won’t allow much for competition shooting but I’d like to dabble in some club matches when things slow down if that makes any difference. Thank you.

 

[kriller134]

I have both. Save the money for a barrel. It’s only worth it if you have to have the different features the tl3 offers.

 

[DIBBS]

Numerous threads on the subject...

Try the search function top right of screen...

Here's one thread to get you started.

Origin vs tl3

Thinking of building a rifle and am fairly new at all of the custom options. The bighorns get some good praise and am thinking that is the way I would like to go. From what I can tell it is what they are made out of and pinned vs integral recoil lug are the differences. What is the real...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Thorbeast]

I would only do the TL3 if you want a field- capable switch barrel. If you don't plan on swapping barrels at the range I would 100% and twice on Tuesday just get an Origin.

I have two TL3's and one Origin. My Origin is super smooth. I love it.

What about the TL3 makes it better for a field capable switch barrel setup?

 

[archangel485]

Integral recoil lug

Just curious, have you done any testing on barrel swapping to see if point of impact changes more for one than the other? A discussion I had in the past was whether or not that integral lug actually helps with this, but none of us could actually test it to answer the question. I wouldn't be surprised to find out there isn't much advantage to the integral lug due to the pins on the Origin. I have "field swapped" barrels on my origin several times, the swap itself is no big deal obviously, but I did have to rezero, but I'm not convinced I wouldn't have to with a TL3. I'll have a TL3 in 2 or 3 weeks so hopefully can do some testing myself.

To the OP, only reason I'm getting a TL3 rather than another origin is I had a cert. Since they are options, I did get the medium tang and a 30moa rail, but I could have certainly lived with the options the Origin comes with.

 

[Chargerguy]

The short action origins are stainless steel now like the TL3/SR3. There’s really not much that the TL3 offers over the Origin unless you want TL3 specific options like the AW mag cut, integral recoil lug, etc. that you can’t get on the Origin. Do you prefer a swept bolt handle or straight? Will you ever run BDL bottom metal? Just some things to consider.

 

[RFutch]

I saved enough on my first two Origins, by not getting the TL3, that it almost paid for my third Origin.

 

[b6graham]

I prefer Origin for swept bolt handle to match RimX

 

[Blaiz1]

I would only do the TL3 if you want a field- capable switch barrel. If you don't plan on swapping barrels at the range I would 100% and twice on Tuesday just get an Origin.

I have two TL3's and one Origin. My Origin is super smooth. I love it.

AGREE

 

[Brad27]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I’ll be building off an origin.

 

[archangel485]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I’ll be building off an origin.

Buy one from @Front Range Precision. He's a hide supporter, great prices, regularly gets them in stock and is a great guy to work with.

 

[archangel485]

I have conducted a s

I have conducted a significant amount of testing with my two TL3's. The return to zero is the best you will get. Better than an AI quic-loc.

How are you "field swapping"?

Cool, good to know. How good is it exactly? I know nothing about AI quic-loc I'm afraid, but I usually have to move my scope 1-2 tenths from it's original zero when swapping barrels on my Origin.

The way I'm swapping barrels, starting with my entire rifle assembled is:

• I put the barrel in a barrel vise as close to the front of the chassis as I can get it and clamp it down
• Using Bighorn's rear entry action wrench, a breaker bar and socket, I break the barrel loose
• I remove the barrel from the barrel vise
• Sitting on a chair, I set the butt of the stock on the ground and put the rifle between my legs to keep it from falling over while I unscrew the barrel from the action by hand
• Ensuring I have adequate anti-seize compound on the threads, I take my other barrel and screw it in by hand as far as it will go
• I put it back in the barrel vise and using the action wrench, a torque wrench and a socket, I torque it down to 80ft-lbs
• In my case I have to change bolt heads

I personally don't actually do this in the field, I do it at home, but the same process could be used in the field as long as you had a way to secure the barrel vise. The first time I made the swap I took notes on how much I had to adjust the scope, then when I went back to the first barrel I adjusted the scope the opposite direction by that same amount. I have since made the barrel swap between the 2 barrels about 3 times and what I have found is I generally have to move the scope some additional amount, usually on the order of 1-2 tenths of a mil, but the most I've had to do is 3 tenths. I have wondered if this difference is due to the non-integral lug or if it's perhaps some other factor, such as the amount of rotation of the barrel when torqueing. I'm thinking it's possible that even when using a torque wrench, which itself has some tolerance level, the amount of compound, the temperature of the steel, the exact location the barrel is clamped in the vise, and probably other factors could influence exactly how much 80 ft-lb of torque rotates the barrel into the action, I'm simply hypothesizing, it may not be enough to matter, but I would also not think that recoil lug can move enough to matter either, so I'm very interested to know what results a TL3 would produce.

What is your field swapping process?

 

[archangel485]

I leave the rifle assembled and using a crow's foot on a 1/2" drive torque wrench, I grab the wrench flats on the muzzle to torque and break torque. I trap the rifle between my thighs/ knees muzzle up. This presents the wrench flats at about chest/ neck level in order to comfortably wrench on. I use 40 ftlbs of torque. I've tested hand tight, 20, 30, and 40 and haven't seen a poi shift as long as some amount of torque is used.

I see more zero shift from bore condition and shooting position. To put it simply I haven't had to rezero my turrets in over a year on my 6 Dasher. The Marine Corp did a study about 15 or so years ago on "cold bore" effects. What they found is that the vast majority of what was being attributed to cold bore shifts in the group of shooters was actually due to "cold shooter". Guy's taking a couple of rounds to "warm up". I personally have had a rifle that had a cold bore shift that was very repeatable. But I found out with my gunsmith that the action was not square. It was a slab-sided action. The inlet in the chassis was made for the perfect action and the action was not. We bedded it and that cold bore shift went away. I think if a rifle has a cold bore shift it's a mechanical deficiency. The cold shooter thing is why we now use dot drill exercises. Basically getting after the shooters repeatable precision over the rifles accuracy. Position as a fundamental and the natural point of aim component of position building has the greatest effect on your zero. I guarantee torquing (no matter how light) a properly machined barrel on an action face with an integral lug will have less variance than our ability to repeat our zeros. The difficult part of testing this is separating your marksmanship affect from the rifles mechanical affect since you have no way of testing without you in the equation. I mean hell, we've seen a difference in chrono data between shooting from a bench, seated vs in the prone.

All this to make the point that the most accurate thing I can say is that I haven't had to rezero in over a year of matches with my barrel off and back on in between each match.

Where it gets difficult is three barrels for one rifle x 4 switch barrel rifles. I honestly cannot remember each individual barrel's zero offset to within .1 mrad for all those barrels across 4 rifles. I only maintain a 0/0 zero on one barrel per rifle. All the others are an offset. So far the best method is to write myself an email, subject titled the rifle name with the zeros for each barrel in the body. I always have my phone on me and Gmail's search function is pretty good.

Thanks for sharing. I have not noticed cold bore shifts, only shifts when changing barrels. Have you had similar results with your Origin? Or do you not take the barrel off of your Origin?

 

[Matt_3479]

I was in your shoes ans went tl3 just for the fact I know if I bought the origin I’d always wonder in the back of my mind.. what if? Is it better? Should I have just gotten the tl3? The peace of mind from all the wondering is the only reason I bought the tl3. I went through it before and it drove me nuts lol

 

[Gtscotty]

The short action origins are stainless steel now like the TL3/SR3. There’s really not much that the TL3 offers over the Origin unless you want TL3 specific options like the AW mag cut, integral recoil lug, etc. that you can’t get on the Origin. Do you prefer a swept bolt handle or straight? Will you ever run BDL bottom metal? Just some things to consider.

I assume you mean the actual construction of the Origin is SS, finish wise I think they still only come in black nitride as opposed to matte SS like the SR3 and TL3.

I got my Origin in last week, called Zermatt to ask a few questions, they said that they were way out on direct purchase shipments and to buy from one of their dealers. I got mine from Northland Shooter Supply, but I believe Altus also had some.

 

[Chargerguy]

Your assumption is correct. I meant the material not the finish.