Gunsmithing Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

ohnomrbillk

ohnomrbillk

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 30, 2004
234
19
Missouri
#1
Wanting a short setup with a suppressor. I would prefer not to use a lever action, falling block, break action, etc. I was thinking a single shot intended for a WSM, like a Savage Precision Target Action. Any thoughts appreciated. I know the 50 Beowulf would be close, but loading for the revolver and the rifle would be nice. Help and suggestions greatly appreciated.
 
#3
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

Thanks for the reply REM700MAN. The pump you suggested is very nice, but I still would really like a bolt gun, even if it is a single shot.
 
#4
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

375,

Yessir it is possible, and not too much of a hill to climb so far. I am currently building exactly the setup you describe, can't tell you what actually works or doesn't, since I haven't finished it yet, waiting on the dies from Lonnie with Hornady Custom Shop. I wanted a bolt gun repeater with a detachable magazine, so there are some curves in the road, yet to be eased around. Contact me by PM or e-mail and I will be happy to tell you what I "Think" I know about it so far.

HTH
Emory Jones
 
#5
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FTF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 375,

Yessir it is possible, and not too much of a hill to climb so far. I am currently building exactly the setup you describe, can't tell you what actually works or doesn't, since I haven't finished it yet, waiting on the dies from Lonnie with Hornady Custom Shop. I wanted a bolt gun repeater with a detachable magazine, so there are some curves in the road, yet to be eased around. Contact me by PM or e-mail and I will be happy to tell you what I "Think" I know about it so far.

HTH
Emory Jones </div></div>

email sent
 
#6
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

76254rdimensions.jpg
500-S&W2.gif

The rim of the rimmed cartridge 7.62x54R is .570" and the base is .486".
The rim of the rimmed cartridge 500 S&W is .556" and the base is .526".

That means a $50 shot out Russian WWII rifle could be converted without bolt face or extractor trouble.
I could chamber and thread a 50 cal barrel and be firing 50sw in a few hours....but...
That also means that the 500S&W has very little rim.
I am helping someone build a 50Rem from scratch right now, the 500S&W brass looks like a poor place to start.
I have converted Russians to 30-30 and to 45/70.
Both of those cartridges have strong rims.
The reason the 500S&W has such a wimpy rim is to fit them in a crowed little cylinder of a revolver.
With a rifle there is no such constraint, and a better 50 cal rimmed cartridge might be chosen.

You could spend $500 use a Rem700 action and it would be all matching:
1) Wimpy rim ready to fall off.
2) Wimpy extractor ready to fall off.
3) Wimpy bolt handle ready to fall off.

Then with a Rem700 if you have a stuck case, instead of jumping on the bolt handle like a pogo stick, you could hit the bolt handle with a wiffle bat.
 
#7
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

As another possible platform:

.450Marlin in any WSM/SAUM (magnum bolt face SA) bolt action. A greater selection of bullets, standard magnum bolt face.

disregard: I didn't catch the revolver/rifle ammo commonality.
 
#8
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
76254rdimensions.jpg
500-S&W2.gif

The rim of the rimmed cartridge 7.62x54R is .570" and the base is .486".
The rim of the rimmed cartridge 500 S&W is .556" and the base is .526".

That means a $50 shot out Russian WWII rifle could be converted without bolt face or extractor trouble.
I could chamber and thread a 50 cal barrel and be firing 50sw in a few hours....but...
That also means that the 500S&W has very little rim.
I am helping someone build a 50Rem from scratch right now, the 500S&W brass looks like a poor place to start.
I have converted Russians to 30-30 and to 45/70.
Both of those cartridges have strong rims.
The reason the 500S&W has such a wimpy rim is to fit them in a crowed little cylinder of a revolver.
With a rifle there is no such constraint, and a better 50 cal rimmed cartridge might be chosen.

You could spend $500 use a Rem700 action and it would be all matching:
1) Wimpy rim ready to fall off.
2) Wimpy extractor ready to fall off.
3) Wimpy bolt handle ready to fall off.

Then with a Rem700 if you have a stuck case, instead of jumping on the bolt handle like a pogo stick, you could hit the bolt handle with a wiffle bat. </div></div>

Would you be better off with the 500 Linebaugh? It has more rim. I load that one too.
 
#10
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">subsonic?

what powder and projectile? </div></div>

In the 500 smith, you can run up to a 700 grain bullet on a 1 in 10 twist. Check out http://www.john-ross.net/

H110 for a powder.
 
#11
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

The base is not .526. Someone has some bad info here and needs to do some homework. All the S&W cases I have examined (win,cbc,starline,etc...) has undercut of .474 dia x .05? long in front of the rim that is not shown in the above drawing.There is no WHIMPY rim. Truth is semiautos are harder on rims than bolt rifles. That being said I own a S&W 500 pistol and wanted a rifle to go with it as in the "Cowboy Concept". Do a Google search "500 S&W Saiga Conversion" and you will find my 500 S&W semiauto rifle. It was first listed in "theakforum" BIY section. Many of your questions will be answered by researching these forums. In two years I have never had one of the WIMPY rims give out or fail to extract. I too have modified Mosin rifles to 45-70,375 H&H and 223. These can be seen on the Gunco forum under the Mosin Pistol thread. I do agree that the WSM case does have potential as does the 500GXT (my version of the 500 Ultra Mag OAL of 2.8 for nato mag semi autos) because of the rimless design in a magazine fed weapon. To the guy doing the mag fed bolt gun adding a .015 x 30 Degree chamfer just a head of the .474 diameter under cut will help with feeding the 500 in a magazine as the rim does try to "Hang" on the undercut. A final note have chrono 385 CLHP Rem at over 2000 fps in my rifle and this is not a WHIMPY load. I do not claim to be an expert on anything but all of the above is true to the best of my knowledge.
Sincerely,
willie
BTW: I just calipered a Winchester 270WSM case and a Remington 300RUM case and Guess what? The 500S&W has a thicker and wider rim base.
 
#12
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

I have a completed bolt gun that is similar to what you are wanted.

Here are the specs.

-Mauser 96 action, cut in half, shortened and tig welded back together.

-Mauser 96 Bolt, fireing pin and extractor shortened and silver soldered together.

-Douglas 30" blank, contoured and cut to 16.5" chambered in .45 ACP.

-Custom made stock inletted and glass bedded for this action. Made from a blank. Finished in Matte clear coat. Internal single shot follower constructed of Devcon.

All metal parkerized.

I will post pictures later. Its a pretty cool rifle, I planned on building a can for it, but I have been too busy in the shop to even shoot this rifle.

I went with a .45 acp because it has almost the same bolt face as a 30-06 and it can be loaded to whatever I want. If it comes down to it I can always run a .460 Rowland reamer in if I need more performance.

Mark
 
#13
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: US Handgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a completed bolt gun that is similar to what you are wanted.

Here are the specs.

-Mauser 96 action, cut in half, shortened and tig welded back together.

-Mauser 96 Bolt, fireing pin and extractor shortened and silver soldered together.

-Douglas 30" blank, contoured and cut to 16.5" chambered in .45 ACP.

-Custom made stock inletted and glass bedded for this action. Made from a blank. Finished in Matte clear coat. Internal single shot follower constructed of Devcon.

All metal parkerized.

I will post pictures later. Its a pretty cool rifle, I planned on building a can for it, but I have been too busy in the shop to even shoot this rifle.

I went with a .45 acp because it has almost the same bolt face as a 30-06 and it can be loaded to whatever I want. If it comes down to it I can always run a .460 Rowland reamer in if I need more performance.

Mark </div></div>

Mark,
That sounds like an interesting setup. Do post pictures when you have the time.
 
#14
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

1.jpg


10 years ago I built a 45acp rifle with the Shilen barrel blank on a 1903 Turk Mauser action.

I run a little hotter than 460 Rowland loads [ ~ 50 kpsi] in 45acp brass, large rifle primers, and with 230 gr FMJ bullets.

With a rimmed case, the limit of pressure is not the primer pocket getting loose, so pressure can be higher. The straight wall cases become sticky and hard to pull out at higher pressures for bolt guns than for revolvers, per the John Bercovitz effect.

The trick to the 100 yard accuracy straight wall cartridges is to NOT use a sloppy SAAMI reamer.
The chamber is cut to fit the ammo that can be produced with a particular carbide resizing die. The loaded ammo is also resized.
 
#16
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

img0498i.jpg


The subject was: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

Not show your 45 ACP?

Bullet on the left = Wimpy 45ACP
Slug on Right = MACHO 700GR T-REX Ranger Rick
If both are traveling at the same speed (sub-sonic or super sonic) the Macho 700gr (3 times the weight of the WIMPY 230gr slug) will cause mass destruction of cataclysmic proportions. Just admit your wrong about your knowledge of the 500 S&W instead of some smoke screen 45ACP baloney.
 
#17
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: abwgtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
img0498i.jpg


The subject was: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

Not show your 45 ACP?

Bullet on the left = Wimpy 45ACP
Slug on Right = MACHO 700GR T-REX Ranger Rick
If both are traveling at the same speed (sub-sonic or super sonic) the Macho 700gr (3 times the weight of the WIMPY 230gr slug) will cause mass destruction of cataclysmic proportions. Just admit your wrong about your knowledge of the 500 S&W instead of some smoke screen 45ACP baloney. </div></div>

I was thinking a LFN cast bullet, but that one from Homer, Alaska just might tickle my fancy.
 
#18
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

Such terrible manners, could NOBODY be returning to SH?

That would be good.
Real men have a sense of humor that is loud, racist, sexist, gross, vulgar, and creatively offensive.
 
#19
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

Clark,
I found this site quite by accident surfing the net to find more about the 500 S&W. Although I have a vast knowledge and experience with this cartridge there is always something new and more to learn. When this misinformation (your post) was discovered I was compelled to educate you and those here on the subject. My sharing is based on hard facts and hands on working with the 500 S&W cartridge not mere speculation or prejudice. I hope everyone enjoyed the humor of my previous Wimpy vs Macho post.
Clark and I both have built on the Mosin action and it would be a cost worthy platform for a 500 S&W rifle. There maybe better actions but none cheaper. Green Mountain 15" pistol barrels can be had for $80. With a permanent extention to get it over 16" is the cheap way out. Pacnor is one of the few makers that offers a true 500 barrel in several twists including one that will stabilize the 700gr slugs. Best of luck on your quest for a "Sledge Hammer" rifle.
Sincerely,
Willie
 
#20
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

Willie,
Sorry if I miss guessed you were NOBODY.
Have you got a more detailed [than the one I found with Google] drawing or sketch of the 500sw case you can and would post?
Have you got any [non dead] links to your 500sw work that you can and would post?
 
#21
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

Clark,
I'm on the BlackBerry and need to post the info you want tonight on the Home puter. Although I do NOT advicate Wikipedia (anyone can post bs there) they do have a nice photo comparing the 44 & 500. In the photo you can see the undercut recess I have been refering to. HTH, willie
 
#24
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

Can't have too much gun, the 500 S&W blues, a case of "No replacement for displacement" fever. Had a guy at a gun show ask me what I needed a 500 S&W rifle for and had a "TactaCOOL" rifle over his shoulder. Wonder if he had a vibrator on that thing? What a BOZO! BTW I like all firearms. I am an amateur gunsmith and a machinist by trade, learn and openly share ideas and concepts about firearms here and other forums and like most don't have time for my own projects. I will not build, work on or repair any firearm but my own. All of the below is only my opinion or best guess and not written in stone.
1.Standard 500 S&W ammo cannot be used. Cases are modified by adding a .015 x 30 degree chamfer just a head of the .474 diameter under cut will help with feeding as some factory cases do not have this feature and without it case rim will hang on a standard undercut. It can be done on loaded factory ammo but is not advised so reload or have someone do it for you. I chose the 385gr Rem cuz of the BC and Hornady 300 were not available. The profiles of the above are conducive to mag feed weapons. This ammo works in any standard 500 S&W chambered weapon.
2. Saiga 410 gasblock or regular AK GB doesn't have enough material for a 500 barrel. So... 4 choices here
a. use a standard non-adjustible gasblock (RPK GB or substitute)
b. BIY GB standard or floating piston. Gas fixed or adjustable ( I went with adj cuz of ability to use mild to wild loads).
c. It might be possible to use one of the aftermarket abjustable GB (?).
d. Use a 12ga or 20ga Saiga floating GB (?).
3.Build It Yourself= PRICELESS

Disclaimer
The design, machining, welding, proof testing, hand fitting, hammering, cussing as in 100% of this conversion was done by me. TRY THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK. I guarantee some details were left out (some of my proprietary design). Mess with me and your dealing with the whole trailer park.
 
#25
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

That rim looks like it would work well for a hooked extractor, but in the application for a 50 I am working on right now it is not the best.

pix141288187.jpg

I bought this antique 1871 single shot pistol 3 weeks ago, and hope to build another.
To make 50 Rem brass, I need the rim to stick out.
 
#26
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

ohnomrbillk,
I do aplogize for hijacking this thead on "Bolt action 500S&W". I do indeed think a bolt rifle in 500 S&W is do able and would make a fine weapon sould you desire to build one.

Clark,
Looks like you have a real treasure there. By all means build a weapon to suit your own wants, needs and desires. I do remember that rolling blocks are a low pressure design and were .511 why in the hell would you build it in .500? Rolling Blocks were made in 7X57 Mauser BTW a rimless cartridge. There is no reason that a proper RB design would not function with the 500 S&W rim design or 45 Colt as it has a whimpy .015 rim. Pedersoli has made 45LC RB for years. If you want to blow smoke by all means go for it. I done here "A Fool argues with a Fool".
 
#27
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ohnomrbillk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: US Handgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a completed bolt gun that is similar to what you are wanted.

Here are the specs.

-Mauser 96 action, cut in half, shortened and tig welded back together.

-Mauser 96 Bolt, fireing pin and extractor shortened and silver soldered together.

-Douglas 30" blank, contoured and cut to 16.5" chambered in .45 ACP.

-Custom made stock inletted and glass bedded for this action. Made from a blank. Finished in Matte clear coat. Internal single shot follower constructed of Devcon.

All metal parkerized.

I will post pictures later. Its a pretty cool rifle, I planned on building a can for it, but I have been too busy in the shop to even shoot this rifle.

I went with a .45 acp because it has almost the same bolt face as a 30-06 and it can be loaded to whatever I want. If it comes down to it I can always run a .460 Rowland reamer in if I need more performance.

Mark </div></div>

Mark,
That sounds like an interesting setup. Do post pictures when you have the time. </div></div>

Alright, I have some free time. Its not the prettiest thing out there, but it was pretty much one of a kind. Everything required tons of attention.

DSC03412Large.jpg


DSC03414Large.jpg


DSC03415Large.jpg


DSC03413Large.jpg


You can see how heavy the barrel was before it was contoured, also the action was pitted pretty badly and just straight up abused. I polished out what I could eventually and parkerized it.

Also, all stock work was mainly done by hand. Inletting the barrel channel and action in.


DSC03469Large.jpg


DSC03473Large.jpg


DSC03475Large.jpg


DSC03476Large.jpg


DSC03477Large.jpg


DSC03478Large.jpg
 
#29
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

Handgunner,

Major Kudos on your 45ACP/Mauser Carbine!!!! That is one seriously "NICE" job you've done there. I have seen numerous builds using the "Kit" parts that were available for awhile, but no scratch built customs with the rec. shortened, fat barrel and custom stock, etc. Your's makes me jealous!! I have a soft spot in my heart for the old Lee Enfield DeLisle Carbines, still want to build or buy one of those someday before it's too late. Thanks for posting all the pictures and information.

Thank You,
Emory Jones
 
#30
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FTF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Handgunner,

Major Kudos on your 45ACP/Mauser Carbine!!!! That is one seriously "NICE" job you've done there. I have seen numerous builds using the "Kit" parts that were available for awhile, but no scratch built customs with the rec. shortened, fat barrel and custom stock, etc. Your's makes me jealous!! I have a soft spot in my heart for the old Lee Enfield DeLisle Carbines, still want to build or buy one of those someday before it's too late. Thanks for posting all the pictures and information.

Thank You,
Emory Jones </div></div>

Thank you.

Would I ever do it again.........HELL NO. Way too much work involved. I have not even shot this rifle yet or thought about a quick dot sight. Just too busy!
 
#32
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: abwgtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ohnomrbillk,
I do aplogize for hijacking this thead on "Bolt action 500S&W". I do indeed think a bolt rifle in 500 S&W is do able and would make a fine weapon sould you desire to build one.

</div></div>

No apology necessary, but it will cost you...pics of the Mosin
Bill
 
#33
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

Handgunner,

That is truly an awesome piece of work. I was just talking today about getting a rifle made for my 500 sw ammo. If you ever want to sell that rifle contact me first!
 
#34
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oregon Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Handgunner,

That is truly an awesome piece of work. I was just talking today about getting a rifle made for my 500 sw ammo. If you ever want to sell that rifle contact me first! </div></div>

Speak of the damned devil!
 
#35
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ohnomrbillk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: abwgtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ohnomrbillk,
I do aplogize for hijacking this thead on "Bolt action 500S&W". I do indeed think a bolt rifle in 500 S&W is do able and would make a fine weapon sould you desire to build one.

</div></div>

No apology necessary, but it will cost you...pics of the Mosin
Bill </div></div>

Made one in 223 single shot had major bolt mods for my son to doe hunt when he was 9yrs. Built one in 375 H&H (the black one with my muzzle break) 2 shot (1 in chamber 1 in mag). I made the scope mounts for both those two. My fave is in 45-70 4 shot (1 in chamber 3 in mag) with a PU mount modified to fit with a Leupold 3X as the other scopes (Simmons&Tasco) would not hold up to the recoil. Using 63grs of Reloader #7 with a 405gr jacketed bullet was getting over 2150 fps! Not your lever gun load, but for Ruger #1 or Siamese Mauser action rifles and a published load recommended for strong actions. The cool thing is I was using a 45-70 barrel from a Ruger #1. Peep sight made by yours truly.
img0459j.jpg

img0461ky.jpg

img0467l.jpg
 
#36
Re: Bolt gun in 500 S&W possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oregon Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Handgunner,

That is truly an awesome piece of work. I was just talking today about getting a rifle made for my 500 sw ammo. If you ever want to sell that rifle contact me first! </div></div>

Might consider it, I probably wont have any plans for this rifle anymore. I'm spread too thin!!!

Mark
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

9
Low cost chassis options
Replies
120
Views
2K
Dead Eye Dick
Dead Eye Dick
Old Man with Gun
Big Magnum Revolver, what is just right?
Replies
66
Views
2K
stefan73
stefan73
C
?? advice on selecting 300 prc rifle ??
Replies
12
Views
603
cellular
C
J
First long range bolt gun build
Replies
51
Views
1K
oldrifleman
oldrifleman
L
Accessories Gun room barrel clean out
Replies
1
Views
228
Adam B
Adam B
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts