Bore Brush

[snake_charmer]

I've put a couple hundred rounds down range with my savage. I've searched for some threads about cleaning and the general consensus is to wait until the barrel starts to degrade in accuracy and then clean. However, no one talks about using a brass/copper bore brush but rather just running the foam down the barrel, waiting overnight, running a couple dry patches, and then followed up with 1-2 lubrication patches. My question is at what point do you run a bore brush down the barrel, 1,000 rounds? I've been considering a bore snake to use after each range trip to get the major stuff out and let the rifle go 300-500 rounds between each cleaning. Just trying to gauge, thanks.

 

[M40_A1]

What the hell is a "bore brush"?

 

[Bender]

Bore snake for loose stuff. Copper solvent and a jag when it does not group anymore. could be 1000 rounds or 12,000. I have read of guys on here that have 5,000+ and only bore snake every 50-100 or so. He was still hitting nickles at 200yds and says he may never clean it.......

 

[damoncali]

I clean after every range session. Contrary to urban legend, there is no harm in running a few patches (and that is all it takes) every 100 rounds or so. A nylon brush speeds things up and reduces the number of patches required. I don't get why people are so afraid to scrub out the bore. You're not going to hurt anything.

 

[snake_charmer]

What the hell is a "bore brush"?

Idk I was trying to recall what the fitting was referenced as. Possibly a nylon brush but it's brass or copper idk. Scrubs the hard deposits from the barrel. Some say one direction, some say both ways, some say not to use them at all due to the severity of the material. They come in the Otis cleaning kits. Mine came for 9mm, 40, 45, 10-12 gauge, 2.23/5.56, & .308.

 

[G22OneShot]

I have to vote for using the brush but have my reasons. To start I use a bartlein 5R barrel (properly broke in) and have consistant 1/2 mos groups when shooting. I clean after every range session whether one round or a hundred. When I clean I start with nylon brush and BoreTech copper solvent. Ten passes (both directions) followed by two wet patches on a jag from chamber to muzzle. Then repeat cycle until zero copper or carbon left. Usually 7 or so cycles (15 to 20 minutes). I don't use any harsh cleaners and don't let anything sit in the barrel. Once clean I take extra time to wipe out chamber and bore with dry patches. BoreTech has preservative for barrel if used every month or so. Otherwise clp for storage and alcohol patch before shooting. Has worked great for me and have had no accuracy issues. Now for the why, its a work rifle in LE. That is, the only shot that matters is the cold bore. So clean bore makes for consistancy on that first shot of the day. Second is rifle inspection after a shot is fired LOD. Two dirty rifles and one round out makes for some questions. (not so sure about this second one but its how I was trained so its how I do) Different uses or disciplines probably benefit from a different process but for me, clean clean clean and don't spare the brush. Should be noted the only reason I don't use brass is you will never know when the barrel is clean as you will get blue on the patches as the solvent is eating the brush.

 

[djskit]

I have to vote for using the brush but have my reasons. To start I use a bartlein 5R barrel (properly broke in) and have consistant 1/2 mos groups when shooting. I clean after every range session whether one round or a hundred. When I clean I start with nylon brush and BoreTech copper solvent. Ten passes (both directions) followed by two wet patches on a jag from chamber to muzzle. Then repeat cycle until zero copper or carbon left. Usually 7 or so cycles (15 to 20 minutes). I don't use any harsh cleaners and don't let anything sit in the barrel. Once clean I take extra time to wipe out chamber and bore with dry patches. BoreTech has preservative for barrel if used every month or so. Otherwise clp for storage and alcohol patch before shooting. Has worked great for me and have had no accuracy issues. Now for the why, its a work rifle in LE. That is, the only shot that matters is the cold bore. So clean bore makes for consistancy on that first shot of the day. Second is rifle inspection after a shot is fired LOD. Two dirty rifles and one round out makes for some questions. (not so sure about this second one but its how I was trained so its how I do) Different uses or disciplines probably benefit from a different process but for me, clean clean clean and don't spare the brush. Should be noted the only reason I don't use brass is you will never know when the barrel is clean as you will get blue on the patches as the solvent is eating the brush.

I'm not going to argue with what works for you and that the results satisfy your needs and understand that you have substantially higher liability potential if you get it wrong.

But look at it a different way (consider this an academic discussion) ...this regime consists a LOT of work and spends a LOT of time on cleaning barrels but has no reference point of what is being avoided. Some of what I'm reading sounds like "I know where my clean cold bore shoots, therefore, I need to have a clean bore every time I shoot".

I'm in the camp of cleaning every couple hundred rounds. I've gone 600+ with no degradation in accuracy. I clean every 200-300 "just because". My clean bore is consistently off...but all my dirty bore shots agree. Your solution is to always have a clean bore, mine is it to avoid it.

When I do clean, I use foamy wipe out. Apply, let sit 6-8 hours, 3 dry patches. Depending on how the last one looks, I may do one or 2 more rounds. No brushes needed.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I use a brass bore brush and Eezox on all my firearms.
Just be sure to use a bore/chamber or muzzle guide when do'n any clean'n.
LG

 

[wrangler5]

If I were in the same business as G22OneShot I'd do exactly what he does - clean after every session, and zero the scope for a cold clean bore.

But I just shot my first F Class match, after spending a year, off and on, getting my cheap rifle and cheap scope to shoot 1.5" groups at 300 yards. (I didn't shoot clean in my first 600 yard match, but I do think my setup will hold that accuracy level out there once I learn more about reading wind.) In the process I've learned that cold bore shots go somewhere other than where the scope is zeroed for groups, and clean cold shots go somewhere different. It takes from 5 to 10 shots after a cleaning before they're back where the crosshairs point. Since my "game" involves 15 shot strings plus sighters and is best performed with a dirty bore, I do NOT clean after every session. I DO clean the bore if I'm going to shoot a load with a different powder, as I've found that each powder seems to like it's own fouling.

I do feel guilty about it, as I was raised to clean every gun every time you shoot it, and generally have been doing so for going on 60 years. But Varget is hard to get these days, and bullets aren't free, so I'm learning to live with the guilt of an "unclean" gun.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

'1.5" groups at 300 yards', sez Wrangler5.
What's the caliber and load-
3 or 5 shot groups?
Any pictures of the targets?
LG

 

[wrangler5]

'1.5" groups at 300 yards', sez Wrangler5.
What's the caliber and load-
3 or 5 shot groups?
Any pictures of the targets?
LG

Marlin X7VH in 223, 26" heavy barrel in factory stock (not free floated)
Berger 70gVLD bullets over 24.2g Varget, Remington 7 1/2s, Lapua brass, neck sized, bullet set back from lands ~0.065 (less setback gave bigger groups)
Nikon Buckmasters 6-18x40 scope
Shot on 6/5/14 from a bench with a Harris bipod and a rear sand bag
5 shots, size determined by eyeballing caliper over widest 2 shots less 0.22 - the grid squares are 1 inch

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Marlin X7VH in 223, 26" heavy barrel in factory stock (not free floated)
Berger 70gVLD bullets over 24.2g Varget, Remington 7 1/2s, Lapua brass, neck sized, bullet set back from lands ~0.065 (less setback gave bigger groups)
Nikon Buckmasters 6-18x40 scope
Shot on 6/5/14 from a bench with a Harris bipod and a rear sand bag
5 shots, size determined by eyeballing caliper over widest 2 shots less 0.22 - the grid squares are 1 inch

View attachment 40674

If that group is an avg, and not a fluke-
DON'T EVER SELL IT!--
LG

 

[wrangler5]

Well, it's the only 300 yard group I've shot, but the 200 yard groups are usually under an inch, so I don't think it's a fluke. For a sub-$300 rifle I am VERY pleased with it, although my sub-$300 scope is going back to Nikon for attention and then down the road - it stopped tracking properly at my 600 yard sight in session after I cranked it up 13 minutes from the 300 yard setting, and took almost 40 shots to get zeroed at 600.

Now it took a LOT of shots to develop this load, but this is my first centerfire rifle with a scope, and my first effort at working up an accurate long range load, so I had a lot of basics to learn. Only some of which was how it shot when clean or dirty (to get back on topic.)

 

[djskit]

I think the old "clean your rifle after every trip to the range" is a carry-over from the days of corrosive primers, when that was a necessity.

 

[wrangler5]

It may be older than that. Black powder guns didn't last long, or at least didn't stay in very good shape, without pretty prompt cleaning after use.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

It may be older than that. Black powder guns didn't last long, or at least didn't stay in very good shape, without pretty prompt cleaning after use.

You clean BP with soapy water. So YEAH oil'n the metal is a must.
I shoot BP in a Sharps rifle. It looks as good today as when I bought it from Shiloh Sharps over 12 years ago.
LG

 

[Pinecone]

It also comes from the military.

But in the military, if you damage your barrel with cleaning, the armourer changes it for you, at no cost to you. What is the cost to YOU, if you overclean and damage your barrel?

And more barrels are damaged by cleaning than by shooting.

 

[rduckwor]

Well, it's the only 300 yard group I've shot, but the 200 yard groups are usually under an inch, so I don't think it's a fluke. For a sub-$300 rifle I am VERY pleased with it, although my sub-$300 scope is going back to Nikon for attention and then down the road - it stopped tracking properly at my 600 yard sight in session after I cranked it up 13 minutes from the 300 yard setting, and took almost 40 shots to get zeroed at 600.

Now it took a LOT of shots to develop this load, but this is my first centerfire rifle with a scope, and my first effort at working up an accurate long range load, so I had a lot of basics to learn. Only some of which was how it shot when clean or dirty (to get back on topic.)

Well, don't send your scope off too quickly.

My Buckmaster ( same model as yours) only had about 55 MOA total vertical adjustment span. Remember its only a 1" tube.

It wasn't nearly enough for me to get a dialed 600 yard impact. Different optic may be your best solution.

Good luck,

 

[rduckwor]

I have to vote for using the brush but have my reasons. To start I use a bartlein 5R barrel (properly broke in) and have consistant 1/2 mos groups when shooting. I clean after every range session whether one round or a hundred. When I clean I start with nylon brush and BoreTech copper solvent. Ten passes (both directions) followed by two wet patches on a jag from chamber to muzzle. Then repeat cycle until zero copper or carbon left. Usually 7 or so cycles (15 to 20 minutes). I don't use any harsh cleaners and don't let anything sit in the barrel. Once clean I take extra time to wipe out chamber and bore with dry patches. BoreTech has preservative for barrel if used every month or so. Otherwise clp for storage and alcohol patch before shooting. Has worked great for me and have had no accuracy issues. Now for the why, its a work rifle in LE. That is, the only shot that matters is the cold bore. So clean bore makes for consistancy on that first shot of the day. Second is rifle inspection after a shot is fired LOD. Two dirty rifles and one round out makes for some questions. (not so sure about this second one but its how I was trained so its how I do) Different uses or disciplines probably benefit from a different process but for me, clean clean clean and don't spare the brush. Should be noted the only reason I don't use brass is you will never know when the barrel is clean as you will get blue on the patches as the solvent is eating the brush.

G22, I understand this works well for you and your situation. What happens if you have to take a second follow-up shot? How do you compensate for the somewhat warmer, dirtier bore and the shift in POI?

Thanks,

 

[wrangler5]

Well, don't send your scope off too quickly.

My Buckmaster ( same model as yours) only had about 55 MOA total vertical adjustment span. Remember its only a 1" tube.

It wasn't nearly enough for me to get a dialed 600 yard impact. Different optic may be your best solution.

Good luck,

I've been there. The scope is sitting on a 20 minute base to which I've added about another 15 minutes of shim at the back. As mounted, the 600 yard zero is still well within the physical limits of the scope's range of elevation clicks (as I checked 'em out when I first got it - I only got 51 3/4 minutes of elevation between the resistance points at both ends of travel.) But the innards just aren't moving 1/8 minute for each click I put on a turret. So I THINK it can stand some attention from Nikon - if for no other reason than that I can then sell it with a clear conscience.

 

[rduckwor]

I've been there. The scope is sitting on a 20 minute base to which I've added about another 15 minutes of shim at the back. As mounted, the 600 yard zero is still well within the physical limits of the scope's range of elevation clicks (as I checked 'em out when I first got it - I only got 51 3/4 minutes of elevation between the resistance points at both ends of travel.) But the innards just aren't moving 1/8 minute for each click I put on a turret. So I THINK it can stand some attention from Nikon - if for no other reason than that I can then sell it with a clear conscience.

Roger that. Horse of a different color then. Good Luck with it.

 

[G22OneShot]

Rduckwor,
Follow-up is taken as required. We use databooks for what poi shift can be expected. In all honesty with the barlein the shift is so minimum I make no adjustment. My last 700p I got almost an inch shift up and a quarter right after cold bore. So documented it in the log and it was always the same. So when we train I know what to expect with it.

My original post was meant more as an answer to the OP to say that use of a brush is not a bad thing but that a copper brush makes it hard to tell when the rifle is actually clean.

As to shoot clean or dirty we shoot clean for my previous mentioned reasons. We also still break in barrels which is anothe topic that there is a lot of opinions on. Essentially the use the brush was recommended by my rifle builder for the break-in and for regular cleaning. Trainers have also required it so it has been our practice.

I'd love to not have to clean it as often as I'd easily get more range time rather then run back and clean before the end of the training day.

 

[snake_charmer]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm gonna pick up a bore snake tomorrow before my range trip. In the future I'll probably go 300 rounds before doing a thorough cleaning with the brass brush. I was just a little worried it would be too harsh on the barrel, thus causing it harm. This stuff isn't cheap and I wanna put all my cash in ammo.

 

[M40_A1]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm gonna pick up a bore snake tomorrow before my range trip.

If your barrel is considered match grade, then you should skip the bore snake IMO. They are only popular because they are fast and easy, but have no place in a match barrel except in an emergency. They become contaminated with the very first pass, and every subsequent pass from then on until you throw the thing away is dragging all that abrasive combustion byproduct crap through your bore which will speed wear on the throat, leade, and lands. You'd be better off not cleaning at all.

 

[rduckwor]

Rduckwor,
Follow-up is taken as required. We use databooks for what poi shift can be expected. In all honesty with the barlein the shift is so minimum I make no adjustment. My last 700p I got almost an inch shift up and a quarter right after cold bore. So documented it in the log and it was always the same. So when we train I know what to expect with it.

My original post was meant more as an answer to the OP to say that use of a brush is not a bad thing but that a copper brush makes it hard to tell when the rifle is actually clean.

As to shoot clean or dirty we shoot clean for my previous mentioned reasons. We also still break in barrels which is anothe topic that there is a lot of opinions on. Essentially the use the brush was recommended by my rifle builder for the break-in and for regular cleaning. Trainers have also required it so it has been our practice.

I'd love to not have to clean it as often as I'd easily get more range time rather then run back and clean before the end of the training day.

Thanks for the reply. I have a factory 5R that sounds just like your old 700P, except the cold/clean is down 1 inch and maybe 1/2 inch to the right consistently. So when taking that first cold/clean shot, is it your practice to dial it or hold it off?

Thanks,

 

[G22OneShot]

For me I zero for the cold bore and hold for the follow up. (for the 700p) Reasoning is the high stress of that cold shot. Too much to go wrong as it is, I want that first round going where the crosshairs are. For the follow-up, if needed, its coming quick, no time to dial, so hold off. With the Bartlein its all the same hole between the cold and follow-ups so no worries there.