Build Vs. Modify

[lawofsavage]

I need some advice on my situation... I am very interested in entering into the sport of long range precision rifle shooting and want to enter into some competitions next year.

Right now I have a Savage 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor with a Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24 FFP.

The only thing I know right now is that I am definitely going to upgrade the optics either to NF NXS 5.5-22x56 or IOR 6-24. And that the caliber is going to be 6.5 Creedmoor. These are the only two constants everything else is variable.

I have about $5000 saved up just for this but I would like to be as thrifty as possible and save any extra while still getting quality equipment... It doesn't need to be top quality but it needs to be good enough for long range precision and dependable.

Right now I am having trouble deciding on buying a Manners T5 with chassis system for the Savage and also adding a Krieger Barrel.

VS.

I've already got a Rem 700 action so I could get a AICS get it completely built by JP Precision, nice trigger, krieger, etc.....

Which route would you go as an experienced shooter and if you don't mind explaining why?

Also, which one do you thing will be more accurate or do you thing it would be very different since the only differences will be the action and the stock both having the Krieger barrel.

Also, I don't care about weight very much I don't want to go over about 15 lbs. so weight to me isn't and issue for this build. I hunt alot and I've got a hunting rifle already I want this to be good for tactical style competitions and as accurate as possible.

I'd appreciate any feedback and be very thankful as I'm very interested in this sport.

 

[Temp9]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

I think this is mainly based on which stock you like best. I personally think you should build off your existing rifle. Why do you need to change the barrel? Poor accuracy? Your current setup is very capable. Your stock could use an upgrade if you're on the stoc --erm-- factory stock, and the T5 you picked out will serve you well.

I don't think you'd gain anything by going to a Remington action. Accuracy should be pretty much identical. With the Savage, you gain user serviceability. With the Remington, you buy into the vast aftermarket options.

On the other hand, if you sold your current rifle and your Remington action, you could afford to upgrade your action to a Stilen or equivalent, with change left over. Then you could build off of a top-of-the-line action, with top-of-the-line parts throughout. Honestly, you still won't be getting much more than you would out of the Savage/Manners/Krieger, but some people like having the best. Just a thought.

Also, consider setting aside some money for your ammo options (ie. start handloading if you aren't already). This will do more for your accuracy than you may realize. If you go the Savage route, I'd recommend putting some cash into a DBM system, like CDI. Manners inlets for CDI's, so keep that in mind when/if ordering a stock. A couple magazines is a good idea.

Again, my choice would be to build off your Savage. With a good stock and a Krieger barrel, your gun will be shooting amazingly well. The money you save can be put into your scope, rings, bases, trigger, etc, as well as range gear. Whichever route you take, I doubt you'll be disappointed.

 

[SigsauerP229]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

If you modify your existing 6.5 it will be money in the bank but I don't think you will have a great resell value on it.

If I wanted new I'd buy all the parts and send them off to a smith and with the scope you'd be under $5000.

If used is an option I'd wait till a nice used GAP or similar rifle becomes available in the exchange forum and I'd buy that. $2500 to $3000 seems to be pretty much the norm for the upper end customs used. Leaves a decent chunk to spend $1200 on the lower end to $2500 on the higher end for a peice of glass.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

As a new entrant to precision shooting and competition, I'd counsel a conservative approach.

There are no inherent glaring flaws in what you already have. I'd take advantage of the convenient fact that you already own what you have, and use it thoroughly until you can put your finger directly on what deficits it applies to your capability.

It is often a desire amoung entrants to start with advanced gear, assuming it will insert them into the learning process further along than otherwise. New guys always blame the gear. It's not the gear.

I'd love to be able to buy my way into the X-Ring; but simply, that never works.

Again simply; You need to get good enough before you can get any real benefit out of advanced gear.

Until then, all your upgrade money can buy is diappointment. I know this is hard to hear, but we all went through this.

Greg

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As a new entrant to precision shooting and competition, I'd counsel a conservative approach.

There are no inherent glaring flaws in what you already have. I'd take advantage of the convenient fact that you already own what you have, and use it thoroughly until you can put your finger directly on what deficits it applies to your capability.

It is often a desire amoung entrants to start with advanced gear, assuming it will insert them into the learning process further along than otherwise. New guys always blame the gear. It's not the gear.

I'd love to be able to buy my way into the X-Ring; but simply, that never works.

Again simply; You need to get good enough before you can get any real benefit out of advanced gear.

Until then, all your upgrade money can buy is diappointment. I know this is hard to hear, but we all went through this.

Greg </div></div>

This is a very good point and one I have thought about many times. The reason that wanted to go ahead and put my rifle together is that I was one of those kids who already had a savings account by age 12 on his own and I think my parents lied to me and I'm actually Jewish because I HATE spending money on things. I wouldn't say I'm cheap because I don't like cheap products but if I don't go ahead and get it now I may never be able to justify spending on this again.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SigsauerP229</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you modify your existing 6.5 it will be money in the bank but I don't think you will have a great resell value on it.

If I wanted new I'd buy all the parts and send them off to a smith and with the scope you'd be under $5000.

If used is an option I'd wait till a nice used GAP or similar rifle becomes available in the exchange forum and I'd buy that. $2500 to $3000 seems to be pretty much the norm for the upper end customs used. Leaves a decent chunk to spend $1200 on the lower end to $2500 on the higher end for a peice of glass. </div></div>

That would be a much better value I think, I am just a little apprehensive about buying used for some reason. I guess a bolt rifle is not the most complex piece of equipment to have inspected though.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think this is mainly based on which stock you like best. I personally think you should build off your existing rifle. Why do you need to change the barrel? Poor accuracy? Your current setup is very capable. Your stock could use an upgrade if you're on the stoc --erm-- factory stock, and the T5 you picked out will serve you well.

I don't think you'd gain anything by going to a Remington action. Accuracy should be pretty much identical. With the Savage, you gain user serviceability. With the Remington, you buy into the vast aftermarket options.


On the other hand, if you sold your current rifle and your Remington action, you could afford to upgrade your action to a Stilen or equivalent, with change left over. Then you could build off of a top-of-the-line action, with top-of-the-line parts throughout. Honestly, you still won't be getting much more than you would out of the Savage/Manners/Krieger, but some people like having the best. Just a thought.

Also, consider setting aside some money for your ammo options (ie. start handloading if you aren't already). This will do more for your accuracy than you may realize. If you go the Savage route, I'd recommend putting some cash into a DBM system, like CDI. Manners inlets for CDI's, so keep that in mind when/if ordering a stock. A couple magazines is a good idea.

Again, my choice would be to build off your Savage. With a good stock and a Krieger barrel, your gun will be shooting amazingly well. The money you save can be put into your scope, rings, bases, trigger, etc, as well as range gear. Whichever route you take, I doubt you'll be disappointed. </div></div>

The reason for building off of Remington action is twofold: I like the AICS the best I just love the way it feels and I just have the old 700 action laying around not being used and I can't sell it because my granddad who passed away gave it to me and I don't think I should sell it and I also can't use it because it's got the youth stock and the barrel is shot so I thought it would be neat to use that action for something.

 

[DeSnifter]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

I would agree with that sentiment. Start competing now with what you have. Sure, you may be at a disadvantage, but that is how you learn. Take the opportunity to find what works best for you and what doesn't. It will also give you the opportunity to talk to other shooters and see how their gear feels to you. There are few things more stupid then spending $5,000 on a setup you've never felt or utilized. After competing for a year, you will know what you want with much greater clarity.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

Ideally, that is what I would do. I am just afraid I won't get myself a nice setup once I see mine will work.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

One of my other main questions was will accuracy be the same with AICS+Rem Action+ Krieger vs Manners T5+Savage 12 action+ Krieger?

 

[DeSnifter]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

I would imagine accuracy to be similar if you are using the same barrel for either set up. My point is yes, your set up will work, but I can almost guarantee that you will find things about it that you don't like. The only way to find out what you want, is to actually use it. You may find you hate the tiny thumbhole on the AICS, or the weight of the stock in dynamic competitions. You may find you want a specific barrel length. None of us here can tell you what will work for you, the only way you can find out is to try it yourself. Personally I hate the AICS chassis, while my partner in competitions loves it. FWIW I went ahead and ordered a Black Ops Precision SPECTER-BABR. It is lightweight, and perfect for the tactical style competitions I do. Before that I had a TRG-22 which was less than ideal for it.

 

[cuffm4615]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

Law my suggestion is to just build off your existing 700 action. Find a good gunsmith (Many great ones here on the Hide). Preferably one with a short waiting time on builds. Send him your parts (ie barrel, prefered stock, trigger etc.). And have him true your action, put the parts together and bed your stock. Your rifle will be a tack driver for a fraction of the cost (since you already have the action). And you will have the peace of mind of knowing that your rifle is virtually a "brand new" custom rifle built by a quality Smith. And yes use the left overs on your glass (DON'T GO CHEAP)!!!

 

[mattlewis]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

you just have to decide if you a DIY kind of person or not, and if you're capable of pulling a project like this off.

you won't really save any money either way. one way you'll have the satisfaction of having done a lot of the work yourself, the other way you won't have to screw with doing the work yourself.

sometimes it's harder to get gunsmiths to to "piece work" than it is to get them to build you a complete custom rifle. talk to some and see. there's a bunch of them on this site and others that would help you either direction you go.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattlewis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you just have to decide if you a DIY kind of person or not, and if you're capable of pulling a project like this off.

you won't really save any money either way. one way you'll have the satisfaction of having done a lot of the work yourself, the other way you won't have to screw with doing the work yourself.

sometimes it's harder to get gunsmiths to to "piece work" than it is to get them to build you a complete custom rifle. talk to some and see. there's a bunch of them on this site and others that would help you either direction you go. </div></div>


The only way I'd really save money is just to slap a Manners T5 on for 485+shipping +huge wait time and just shoot it and go to some classes then go from there.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cuffm4615</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Law my suggestion is to just build off your existing 700 action. Find a good gunsmith (Many great ones here on the Hide). Preferably one with a short waiting time on builds. Send him your parts (ie barrel, prefered stock, trigger etc.). And have him true your action, put the parts together and bed your stock. Your rifle will be a tack driver for a fraction of the cost (since you already have the action). And you will have the peace of mind of knowing that your rifle is virtually a "brand new" custom rifle built by a quality Smith. And yes use the left overs on your glass (DON'T GO CHEAP)!!! </div></div>

That's what I would prefer to do I think and I'd really like to use Jody at JP Precision I visited his shop and saw some of his projects and I was pretty impressed. He is also local which is nice and doesn't involve shipping.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DeSnifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would imagine accuracy to be similar if you are using the same barrel for either set up. My point is yes, your set up will work, but I can almost guarantee that you will find things about it that you don't like. The only way to find out what you want, is to actually use it. You may find you hate the tiny thumbhole on the AICS, or the weight of the stock in dynamic competitions. You may find you want a specific barrel length. None of us here can tell you what will work for you, the only way you can find out is to try it yourself. Personally I hate the AICS chassis, while my partner in competitions loves it. FWIW I went ahead and ordered a Black Ops Precision SPECTER-BABR. It is lightweight, and perfect for the tactical style competitions I do. Before that I had a TRG-22 which was less than ideal for it. </div></div>

That's what I was thinking as well as far as accuracy. I just wasn't sure if the bedding systems and aluminum vs fiberglass would make any difference. Thanks for the help.

You have an extremely good point about dynamic environments (comp gun). I have shot both from a bench and liked both although different. I'm going to look up the Black Ops.....

 

[jonbearman]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

If you order a new shilen action complete with a select match barrel and you get a trigger and their proprietary reciever. Then all you need is a stock.Shilen provides the rest for 1500.00 tyd.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonbearman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you order a new shilen action complete with a select match barrel and you get a trigger and their proprietary reciever. Then all you need is a stock.Shilen provides the rest for 1500.00 tyd. </div></div>

That might be a VERY nice option if I decide to sell the Savage. I'm about to call them and see what type of stocks it can drop into.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

I just called Manners and there is a 16 week wait. I just don't think I can handle that when I could get a chassis system for about the same price anyway the only advantages I see of going that route and they are big advantages are top notch CS and lower weight.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

I am now looking at chassis systems for both......

 

[tigerfan_9]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

stockysstocks.com have some manners and mcmillans of various configurations in stock (depending on what action you are using).

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

Now it's pretty much down to just slapping an xlr chassis on the savage and shooting it....

or

Complete AICS Rem 700 build

or

Both and give one as a really expensive present to my Dad or brother and have fun putting them together, although I think I would have more fun putting a lift on my truck....

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerfan9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">stockysstocks.com have some manners and mcmillans of various configurations in stock (depending on what action you are using). </div></div>

Website says they are out of stock on the T5's, I'm about to call....

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

I just called and they said there is no way to know that Manners just ships them whatever they can every week, so it could be between 1-12 weeks depending on Manners. Their website is updated in real time as well so if it says out of stock then it's accurate.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

These just look like such a quality product and so easy to use I'm sold on this for the Savage.....

http://shooterreviews.com/xlr-industries-evolution-precision-rifle-chasis-system/

Does anyone have experience with one?

 

[XLR]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

Here you go sir:

http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads....rue#Post3460208

-Kyle ~ XLR

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

Thank you very much! What is your lead time on an order right now?

 

[XLR]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

We have about a 10 week lead time right now.

-Kyle ~ XLR

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Build Vs. Modify

I'll probably be giving you a call tomorrow then.