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Bulletseeker Mach 4 doppler chrono
- Thread starter Mr.BR
- Start date
I tried once to get a reading on my .50bmg. Got one reading and the bullet seeker stopped reading anything. Got it replaced.
So are they an Australian based company now? This is the only website I can find now: https://www.speedtracker.com.au/
Sent a new msg through that website to see if they have plans to support early gen1 adopters.
Mine worked good for a while, and then quit working on rifles it had been just fine on. I could also never get it to align and read properly via mini-tripod, etc--which would be really handy for hunting rifles. It appears the Mach4+ has a better cone of alignment and is a nonissue?
Has anyone had any recent communication with the company? Has anyone ordered a 4+?
Sent a new msg through that website to see if they have plans to support early gen1 adopters.
Mine worked good for a while, and then quit working on rifles it had been just fine on. I could also never get it to align and read properly via mini-tripod, etc--which would be really handy for hunting rifles. It appears the Mach4+ has a better cone of alignment and is a nonissue?
Has anyone had any recent communication with the company? Has anyone ordered a 4+?
Garmin Xero anyone?
Low and behold. The markets do what the markets do.
I'll double down and say that in 2 years time there will be additional mass market, non-beta, production ready units for half the cost of the 599 msrp of the garmin. There will be additional competition in this space, internal and external to garmin. The ICs will drive down further, etc, etc.
Now that we have the garmin, however, which appears to be the first non-beta type offering in this space at half the cost of it's predicisors, we've gotten over the hump and this is likely the entry point for most enthusiasists.
While i can only imagine that Garmin units costs about 120$ out of the Taiwanese factory, they have seen market is ready to pay more and the rest will keep it that way . Have you seen anything shooting related get cheaper?
If anything in a decade prices only went up and dramatically so
chronographs went from 150$ to 1000$
shooting timers from 90 to 300$
Bipods from 100$ to near 1000$
Tripods from 200$ to near 1400$
You have to understand why Bulletseeker and Andi scan were priced so high, because in Europe where they come from Magnetospeed cost 600$ and Labradar is pushing 800$ and then you needed a carry case , tripod ,battery pack , Wiser precision mount etx and so new user friendly units could be priced higher. Plus none had Garmins Chinese or the other Chinese manufacturing capability
If anything in a decade prices only went up and dramatically so
chronographs went from 150$ to 1000$
shooting timers from 90 to 300$
Bipods from 100$ to near 1000$
Tripods from 200$ to near 1400$
You have to understand why Bulletseeker and Andi scan were priced so high, because in Europe where they come from Magnetospeed cost 600$ and Labradar is pushing 800$ and then you needed a carry case , tripod ,battery pack , Wiser precision mount etx and so new user friendly units could be priced higher. Plus none had Garmins Chinese or the other Chinese manufacturing capability
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Well, I just saw the micro doppler market entry price drop in half. So, yes, I have seen stuff get cheaper.
I completely understand why BulletSeeker, AndiScans were priced as they were. They were groundbreaking entries, cutting edge market. These fast movers in this space, generally and predictibly get usurped by mature players when they can offer their own at reduced prices, with more stable offerings that apeal to a much broader market - which is part of the reason - economies of scale - the price is able to be lower.
I think it's awesome to see the market come about and mature. I've designed and manufactured several products in that type of space myself, not electronics, but knowing the market it was going to create and my solutions would be usurped eventually. Knowing your initial market will be limited and you will be overtaken is one of the reasons for the higher prices, not to mention you're typically lacking the scale, buying power, and many other things that make it truely long term play.
I completely understand why BulletSeeker, AndiScans were priced as they were. They were groundbreaking entries, cutting edge market. These fast movers in this space, generally and predictibly get usurped by mature players when they can offer their own at reduced prices, with more stable offerings that apeal to a much broader market - which is part of the reason - economies of scale - the price is able to be lower.
I think it's awesome to see the market come about and mature. I've designed and manufactured several products in that type of space myself, not electronics, but knowing the market it was going to create and my solutions would be usurped eventually. Knowing your initial market will be limited and you will be overtaken is one of the reasons for the higher prices, not to mention you're typically lacking the scale, buying power, and many other things that make it truely long term play.
I have a Labradar, a Bulletseeker, and a Garmin on the way. Hoping I can throw the others in the garbage when the Xero arrives. Countless frustrations with the other two. Had a chance to sell the Labradar and accessories for like $800 earlier this year but stupidly kept it. The Garmin looks like it will make everything else a paperweight.
I have a MagnetoSpeed V2 that I've had for a decade, I have a Bulletseeker Mach4 that I'm not entirely happy with (location is too damn picky when shooting suppressed), and I ordered a Garmin the other day when they dropped, and it will be here tomorrow.
There are a few things the Bulletseeker does that the Garmin does not, but I hope Garmin will be listening to the customer's wants/needs, and will implement them in a future software update for the app. For example, the Garmin does not live-feed to your smartphone, therefore, you cannot quickly and easily swap between shot string sessions (and continue shooting and add to old saved sessions) just by selecting a different shot string in app, while never having to touch the unit itself, and keeping it in place on the bench. I really hope they update this.
For me the final straw with the Bulletseeker was the “fuck off” attitude when I asked if I could replace my finicky early model with the new version. That and charging $120 for a $3 cast aluminum cone that is practically necessary to make the thing work.
Yeah, mine won't work without the cone. You mean you actually got a response from the company? All this time and I have yet to hear a damn thing from anyone at Speedtracker... I even DM'd the dude on here when my first unit stopped working after 3 readings, and never heard shit. Luckily I did the smart thing and bought it from Midway, so I was able to return it and get another one. Luckily the new unit started working right, and has been thus far, but it's so damn finicky about picking up suppressed shots, I would be glad to send my unit back for a trade-in or upgrade to the new Mach4+ they're releasing that has an updated cone setup for better detection. They should upgrade our units with the new cone and hardware at the very least...
I would say Speedtracker/Bulletseeker and Andiscan are kinda outliers that probably only came to market as you couldn't get a Labradar for nearly 3 years in Europe. Also note both micro radars already existed for a year or two before first YouTube influencers made vids, Bullet seeker already had an air rifle model so the Mach 4+ is already gen3 , and Andyscan A2 is kinda gen3 as well.
Mach4 pricing also went through the roof by the manufacturer having a general distributor and changing one in the first couple of months. I got mine for about 700$ and months later i was looking at 1200$ tags at retailers (when i was talking to get a distribuition before anyone ever seen an unit in the wild i was first told great no problem, and that MSRP was to be about the same as Labradar, 3 months later i was told no dice as some distributors would handle multiple countries, 4 months later change in distributor and a massive price hike, couple months ago new model new prices and i lost all the patience for working with them...
Andiscan is a one-man band that kind of reminds me of how Adam McDonald of Autotrickler started and still works.
Guy decided to handle all sales directly so no distributors at all.
New radar Chrono still costs as much as Labrador and it sounds like the next batches will cost more, so technically chrono did not get cheaper it just got smaller
Mach4 pricing also went through the roof by the manufacturer having a general distributor and changing one in the first couple of months. I got mine for about 700$ and months later i was looking at 1200$ tags at retailers (when i was talking to get a distribuition before anyone ever seen an unit in the wild i was first told great no problem, and that MSRP was to be about the same as Labradar, 3 months later i was told no dice as some distributors would handle multiple countries, 4 months later change in distributor and a massive price hike, couple months ago new model new prices and i lost all the patience for working with them...
Andiscan is a one-man band that kind of reminds me of how Adam McDonald of Autotrickler started and still works.
Guy decided to handle all sales directly so no distributors at all.
New radar Chrono still costs as much as Labrador and it sounds like the next batches will cost more, so technically chrono did not get cheaper it just got smaller
These aren't fair comparisons at all.
Chronographs:
$150 for decades old technology that requires a decent amount of time downrange and the correct weather conditions to use.
$1000 for advanced radar that (theoretically) you strap to your gun and go, picking up hundreds of data points per shot and it sends data to your phone.
$600 for radar technology that is beyond forgiving and doesn't suck. Also sends all that data to your phone.
Bipods
$100 - stamped sheet metal harris with springs.
$1000 - The most versatile bipod anyone's ever seen that allows for crazy height changes, angles, etc, made from CNC machined aluminum
$300 - Gets you CNC machined parts resulting in a bipod that isn't basically made of springs so it's more stable.
Tripods:
$100 - Cheap thin extruded aluminum, used to work ok before we started shooting with/off of them or actually cared about stabillity.
$1000 - Carbon fiber and machined aluminum. The expensive ones are made by those who did all the necessary RND to design great products
$300-600 - Everyone else who blatantly copied the expensive products and made them overseas.
Please note that ALL the cheap options are still available and if anything are even cheaper. The problem is that they're outdated and can't do anything the new stuff does.
This is exactly why getting my money back from the one I bought was the best decision I've made in a long time.
I dgaf about price, I care about ease of use, accuracy, and reliability. I’d pay twice the price of a Labradar for a unit that turns on every time, gives accurate readings, doesn’t trigger on other peoples’ shots, doesn’t miss my shots, and doesn’t drop the Bluetooth connection every 40 seconds or every time my phone screen turns off.
I am fully aware of that but ultimately benjamins i am spending on shooting are only going up................. and i didn't even go at stuff that changed jack shit just got more expensive because they can , bullets,brass,gunpowder,primers
Sure F150 10y ago did not have shit load of features F150 2023 model has , but ultimately you paid more than 2x as much 10 years down the road .
Absolutely fucking not. WTF are they thinking. People actually buying this thing?
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Well it seems the whole business was acquired by Optex Systems Holdings, Inc so will see if it all fades into obscurity or gets a new lease of life
Current pricing is not competitive with Garmin or Labradar
www.sekr-tek.com
Current pricing is not competitive with Garmin or Labradar
HOME | Sekrtek High Tech Radar Chronographs, Speedtracker
Discover the latest in radar technology with Speedtracker, Sekr-Tek. Get accurate speed measurements with our top-of-the-line radar chronographs.
www.sekr-tek.com
Oooof.
Unless they either drop the price to 2-300 bucks for the current rig, it's going to fade into obscurity.
At 200, in the current market there will be some buyers - that is based on features. If it remains finnicky, it probably needs to be 100 to have buyers.
I suspect it was acquired for the IP and they will leverage that to build something better or use it to license the tech.
Unless they either drop the price to 2-300 bucks for the current rig, it's going to fade into obscurity.
At 200, in the current market there will be some buyers - that is based on features. If it remains finnicky, it probably needs to be 100 to have buyers.
I suspect it was acquired for the IP and they will leverage that to build something better or use it to license the tech.
Well it seems the whole business was acquired by Optex Systems Holdings, Inc so will see if it all fades into obscurity or gets a new lease of life
Current pricing is not competitive with Garmin or Labradar
HOME | Sekrtek High Tech Radar Chronographs, Speedtracker
Discover the latest in radar technology with Speedtracker, Sekr-Tek. Get accurate speed measurements with our top-of-the-line radar chronographs.
Given Optex is mostly active in the field of military optics it seems unlikely product would continue as is tech will likely be used in some new product.
The Garmin Xero will no doubt cause this entire product line to struggle (as it will the Labradar).
Long Live Capitalism !!!
The free market has a way of mercilessly punishing "late" and/or "over-priced".
Long Live Capitalism !!!
The free market has a way of mercilessly punishing "late" and/or "over-priced".
I can imagine if they wanted they can price them to compete with both, i can imagine manufacturing is cheap enough, but as they were the first to the market in rifle-mounted radars they pushed the pricing as far as the market could take and beyond.
But as i mentioned we live in era of 150$ shootingbags ,500$ scope mounts, 300$ scope levels ,1000$ bipods
At launch the first units cost slightly less than Labradar here in Europe, then it just snowballed with the general distributor deal it meant there were manufacturer, general distributor and dealer margins in the pricing
A few months ago, I was literally at the point of having one in my Shopping Cart at Midway USA and was one cl ick away from purchasing it. The little demon on my shoulder talked me out of it at the last minute. So thankful for that ...
Yep… Mine too. Sits in its pouch and collects dust until I decide to dust it off someday… Might call Midway and tell them it’s not functioning right (it still misses ALOT of shots, and is super finicky), and if they’ll hook me up with a refund, or store credit.
I just got this add to "upgrade" my BS4 by paying $575, which is basically the price of a chronograph that actually works; i.e., the Garmin. So I paid $1,000+fees and shipping for a piece of crap that does not work and they want me to pay another $575 to "upgrade" to one that might work?! Fool me twice, shame on me!!! What a joke!!! These people are complete scammers, but they did suck me in the first time....so good for them.
This is a gen-2 product in a market where Garmin jumped in with a gen-3. Until someone can come up with either:
1) A cheaper gen-3 product
OR
2) A gen-4 product
... every other product is drawing dead.
1) A cheaper gen-3 product
OR
2) A gen-4 product
... every other product is drawing dead.
I found that if you turn your device to airplane mode then just connect the speed tracker via Bluetooth it works great at least that's been my experience
Mine works ok but obviously these have no screen so everything has to be done through the app, which automatically makes it suck compared to the Garmin. I don’t think I’ll ever use mine again. Waste of a thousand bucks.
Yep, the reason it is a waste of a thousand bucks is nobody will buy them now on the used market. I had mine listed on SH for months for $250 or best offer and did not get a single response. I would probably have sold it for $100 just to get it out of my gun room but nobody even wants it at any price. All I can do is keep it as a reminder of bad decisions made to be an early adopter or chuck it because nobody is going to buy it and I haven't even been able to give it away. BTW, I love the Garmin and use it all the time.
So happy I bought mine through Midway. Returned it after the first range session where it didn't pickup any shots. Bought an AndiScan and it worked, but went with the Garmin as soon as it came out.
As much trouble as I've had with BOTH of mine (first one, and then the replacement unit), I think they owe those of us who had serious problems (and still have problems) a goddamn upgrade for FREE. If they don't, then they're nothing more than scammers and conmen. You ain't fooling me twice. Still might try to end up sending it back to Midway USA for a store credit.
I'm enjoying my Garmin XERO, it works perfect every time.
Missing tons of shots...And being SUPER picky about having to be placed perfectly every single time to pickup ANY shots. It's really annoying.
Ya I hear that it really is unfortunate and makes me wonder if maybe they got word that Garmin was coming out with the best device ever and bs rushed it out there..
Yeah, maybe to vacuum up some cash to recoup at least a bit of their R&D.
‘Cause when Garmin entered the chat…
YouTube: Bambi vs. Godzilla
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I'm new here (posting, that is, but I've been lurking for about 5 years, and aware of snipershide a lot longer. I'm really more of a reloader than an ELR participant... but have been reloading since 1975). Your folks' interest in chronographs caught my attention. I've been following this & chronograph threads here for a while mainly because the other chronographs I've bought (all optical: an original Shooting Chrony from the late 1970s, two F1 models from the late 1980s & early 1990s, and a few Caldwells) have all failed or been shot, and none are usable at night without special lighting. With age, I've become less tolerant of inconvenience, and complex set-ups have become increasingly annoying. The radar chronographs have always seemed interesting, but the technology immature (read that more inconvenient, inaccurate, annoying, etc...). It made little sense to upgrade. Until recently. Speedtracker (& its predecessor Bulletseeker, etc...) have been especially intriguing, but seemed fraught with problems, too. And pricey. Then with the sudden proliferation of radar/Doppler-based chronographs, costs started dropping, availability seems to be increasing & technology improving, and it made sense to re-examine options.
But one fundamental problem kept bugging me: From LabRadar to the Garmin and upcoming radar Caldwell chronographs & others, all of these have very EASILY breakable parts, most related to LCD displays (Ever damage a computer or other LCD display? Just dropping it a few inches & certainly from table-height can do it.) but also to potentially sensitive electronics, all within mere inches of blasts originating from chamber pressures exceeding 50,000 POUNDS (that's 25 TONS) per square inch. OK, I get it: pressures decrease as the projectile advances through the barrel, but even a conservative estimate of, say, a 55 gr. FMJ at the end of a 20" 5.56mm barrel harbors a pressure of "only" 10,000 PSI (that's FIVE TONS of force per square inch... mere inches away from a chronograph), a bit more than I'd like to expose sensitive electronics, LCD displays and so forth in a PLASTIC-housed precision instrument.
That's why the Speedtracker interested me. With recent competition, Midway dropped their price on the OLD model of the Speedtracker Mach4 to just over $500, and with a recent promotion, $480. So I pulled the trigger. Then I got the thing in 24 hours: It's enclosed entirely in metal (looks like extruded aluminum) except for the Radome, (antenna cover) which is a hard nylon-like substance (like the nose of an airliner... if you've ever been in an aircraft maintenance depot): Won't stand against a direct hit from a bullet, but a near supersonic wind: no problem.
So I put it through the tests. And then the problems started. All sorts of pairing problems: didn't show-up or nonsense readings. But I was using an old cellphone (a 10 year-old phone that cost me $30 is fine for voice calls... but NOT for use as a computer), so I got a $30 low-end Android tablet from WallyWorld, and guess what? ALL of the problems disappeared. It was the CELLPHONE, and NOT the Speedtracker that was the problem! Paired instantly, first time. Took my son's 177-cal airgun outside, held the Speedtracker with the same left hand that I held the foregrip & fired. 735 FPS. And I got good readings from 5 of the next 6 tries (I slipped once explaining one missed reading), in complete darkness (I had nearby house lights & shot into a dirt berm). Wow. Can't wait to try real firearms. And with the solid construction, I'm not going to worry about blast damage against the housing or a sensitive LCD display. Or dropping it from a short tripod or the shooting bench. I might even attach it near the muzzle of a barrel with a Pic rail. Unfortunately, I'm working the next three weekends, but I can't wait to see what it'll do on a real range.
But one fundamental problem kept bugging me: From LabRadar to the Garmin and upcoming radar Caldwell chronographs & others, all of these have very EASILY breakable parts, most related to LCD displays (Ever damage a computer or other LCD display? Just dropping it a few inches & certainly from table-height can do it.) but also to potentially sensitive electronics, all within mere inches of blasts originating from chamber pressures exceeding 50,000 POUNDS (that's 25 TONS) per square inch. OK, I get it: pressures decrease as the projectile advances through the barrel, but even a conservative estimate of, say, a 55 gr. FMJ at the end of a 20" 5.56mm barrel harbors a pressure of "only" 10,000 PSI (that's FIVE TONS of force per square inch... mere inches away from a chronograph), a bit more than I'd like to expose sensitive electronics, LCD displays and so forth in a PLASTIC-housed precision instrument.
That's why the Speedtracker interested me. With recent competition, Midway dropped their price on the OLD model of the Speedtracker Mach4 to just over $500, and with a recent promotion, $480. So I pulled the trigger. Then I got the thing in 24 hours: It's enclosed entirely in metal (looks like extruded aluminum) except for the Radome, (antenna cover) which is a hard nylon-like substance (like the nose of an airliner... if you've ever been in an aircraft maintenance depot): Won't stand against a direct hit from a bullet, but a near supersonic wind: no problem.
So I put it through the tests. And then the problems started. All sorts of pairing problems: didn't show-up or nonsense readings. But I was using an old cellphone (a 10 year-old phone that cost me $30 is fine for voice calls... but NOT for use as a computer), so I got a $30 low-end Android tablet from WallyWorld, and guess what? ALL of the problems disappeared. It was the CELLPHONE, and NOT the Speedtracker that was the problem! Paired instantly, first time. Took my son's 177-cal airgun outside, held the Speedtracker with the same left hand that I held the foregrip & fired. 735 FPS. And I got good readings from 5 of the next 6 tries (I slipped once explaining one missed reading), in complete darkness (I had nearby house lights & shot into a dirt berm). Wow. Can't wait to try real firearms. And with the solid construction, I'm not going to worry about blast damage against the housing or a sensitive LCD display. Or dropping it from a short tripod or the shooting bench. I might even attach it near the muzzle of a barrel with a Pic rail. Unfortunately, I'm working the next three weekends, but I can't wait to see what it'll do on a real range.
Not so... AI sounds like ME. I'm so old that I'm SURE that many of my habits & styles have been picked-up by AI authors & the like. Kinda like history: I have very little history to learn... I WAS THERE!
I've already kept mine from Midway too long for a refund & thrown-out the packaging. However, I WAS so impressed, that I DID buy the Speedtracker Mach4+. The ad that Spuzzcat posted from his May 2, 2024 message was still present on their website. I tried to use it & I got a message saying that the discount code was invalid. I sent a (very polite) message asking if the discount was still available, and got a reply from no less than Klara (mentioned here in earlier posts: Kozak, Klara <[email protected]>)! She opened-up the discount code, so I pulled the trigger AGAIN, & I now have a Mark4+ on the way! So I'll soon have TWO (although I'm still waiting for it... I'm currently on a business trip & obviously haven't checked my mail.)
So if NFshooter150 would be willing to go down to $200 (negotiable), shipped or delivered to the St. Louis, Missouri area, YES! I'd LOVE a 3rd Speedtracker. (As I am a new member, I hope that the MODERATORS would forgive this post as I am NOT making a sales solicitation, but simply responding to an earlier post... and if these two messages are a violation of service, that they simply would delete the offending post(s) rather than delete me. Sorry.)
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