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Rifle Scopes Burris XTR3!!!
- Thread starter D_TROS
- Start date
go to 406bullets.com
my friend who invented the bipod sells em. they are not mdt.
tripod spikes are amazing. really amazing.
GL
DT
my friend who invented the bipod sells em. they are not mdt.
tripod spikes are amazing. really amazing.
GL
DT
So this happened today. Just one question.
How do you NOT put "Made in USA" anywhere on it???
How do you NOT put "Made in USA" anywhere on it???
Certain rules about % of parts being from USA, but they should at least have “Assembled in USA” I agree. Tell us how you like it once you get it to the range.
Just finished the 2020 Bushnell Elite Tactical Sniper Challenge in Ellerbe, NC. 3 days in the forest covering over 30 miles forced rucks between shooting stages. our packs weighed ~65lbs with rifle pistol ammo food tripod and camping gear (tent 2lb bag jet boil), and any other misc we may need. If you at any ruck you dont make the req max time per mile you are done for the weekend.
I was using the Lanner 5400 Seek Outside my partner has a K2 2200. His pack was grossly full mine was way to big.
The elevation change on rucks, 17* weather, snow, rain, and muddy roads made for a LONG weekend but we survived (and i mean survived) for a 2nd place finish in the toughman division firing over 100 rifle and pistol rnds ea.
Kelbly's Inc. Rifle
Burris Optics XTR3
SIG SAUER Pistols
Ivory Holsters
@MDT_OFFICIAL LSS-XL stocks
The biggest plus i feel besides having smoking accurate rifles was how well our packs rode. Nver a rub or hot spot or cramping. Beautiful when a plan works. (my calfs on day 3 on other hand...lol)
Biggest downside - weight
spots to cut:
- pistol P320 X5
- tripod (feisol)
- bipod (Ckye-Pod triple pull)
Anyway to stay on topic of thread, the XTR3 was perfect. My partner using the 3-18. me the 5-30
Cant tell you how good it is to truly be able to trust a scopes tracking...THEN good glass as well.
HASHTAGMERICA!!!
GL
DT
I was using the Lanner 5400 Seek Outside my partner has a K2 2200. His pack was grossly full mine was way to big.
The elevation change on rucks, 17* weather, snow, rain, and muddy roads made for a LONG weekend but we survived (and i mean survived) for a 2nd place finish in the toughman division firing over 100 rifle and pistol rnds ea.
Kelbly's Inc. Rifle
Burris Optics XTR3
SIG SAUER Pistols
Ivory Holsters
@MDT_OFFICIAL LSS-XL stocks
The biggest plus i feel besides having smoking accurate rifles was how well our packs rode. Nver a rub or hot spot or cramping. Beautiful when a plan works. (my calfs on day 3 on other hand...lol)
Biggest downside - weight
spots to cut:
- pistol P320 X5
- tripod (feisol)
- bipod (Ckye-Pod triple pull)
Anyway to stay on topic of thread, the XTR3 was perfect. My partner using the 3-18. me the 5-30
Cant tell you how good it is to truly be able to trust a scopes tracking...THEN good glass as well.
HASHTAGMERICA!!!
GL
DT
What do you mean by "spots to cut", are you meaning these items were too heavy and you need to look for something lighter?
it got to 17* at night...mid 30's during the day. never noticed anything getting tough to spin or fog which is super nice.
one morning we did have to deal with the sun just peaking over the trees and was looking straight into the sun at white targets in the snow. I was able to see all the targets exceot for the smaller long distance one that wasn't painted.
yes sir cut weight. really want to be under 60 lbs.
regards
DT
I don't think they are out yet, still. I emailed burris asking about it a couple weeks ago and no response...
Makes sense. All sales are handled through distributors. The item number used by Burris may not be the item number used by the vendor.
The feisol is a fantastic tripod. As good as anything IMO.
The trick came with mounting a different size head in the bowl. I had to cut pop can spacers (1/2" wide 6" long) to wrap around the ball head to get a snug fit then cranked the set screws down. WAY more effective than screwing the ballhead on the flat plate. Do not do that. very wobbly.
Would I get a RRS if the prices were the same? probably. but they arnt. its over double and I got this used for like 300.
MAKE sure you get the 406bullets.com spike feet for your tripod tho. very big improvement over the rubber feet that fall out.
GL
DT
Man that's tough. The Gen2 has been around the block. I loved mine other than the locking knobs. Accidentally hit those a lot which was a nuisance.
Give it a year and I will say yes. Right now I give the edge to Gen2. There is always kinks to work out. Right now I say the glass is a push and tracking is a push. Just track record only can be filled with time. Ive been using them for going on 3 yrs now with nary a hiccup.
Ill nvr steer someone from a Gen2 tho. Just a solid option. But again, they are considerably differnet price differences. Isnt retail on the Gen 2 like $2500? too lazy to check right now but I know its several hundred more.
I feel confident saying this, cant go wrong with either. And Im not a Vortex fan. Both have top notch warranty lolol.
GL
DT
That's not even close to comparing apples to apples. Going off website pricing.
G2: $2899.99
XTR3: $2159
that's a little more than considerable price difference to me.
Obvious in that suggested price is quality of components. If the XTR3 can be mentioned in the same sentence as a G2, that's a win win IMO.
and its MADE IN AMERICA!!
F ya.
YMMV
DT
Great match this weekend. Was lucky to pull off a 2nd place. Was first rolling into the last stage up by 2 shots over dude that won. Went up and missed first 3 shots on a skylined targets. Darn it darn it lol. He cleaned the stage. Still happy.
Elevation was flat right on and during sight in I thought I missed the target a couple times as my shot went inside my previous shot. This bad boy is flat shooting.
MAN this blackbear action is crazy smooth. Literally had to check a couple times to make sure a round fed into chamber. I have or have owned all actions except for an Impact, and this guy is noticeably by far the smoothest Ive ran.
The only down side is the flat base of the action I cant swap into other stocks BUT XLR makes a chassi that is inletted for it. I hope other companies start to do the same. Will be a big selling pt but I guess I cant complain my Kelblys bedded KTS stock had no problems with accuracy dept.
SPECS
- Blackbear Action
- Krieger barrel 26"
- VV N140 30.0 grains
- 105 bergers going 2800
- Kelbly KTS stock
- Burris XTR3 with race dial (very very useful)
- SCR2 retc
- SAP 2 rnd holder (short br version)
Regards
DT
Elevation was flat right on and during sight in I thought I missed the target a couple times as my shot went inside my previous shot. This bad boy is flat shooting.
MAN this blackbear action is crazy smooth. Literally had to check a couple times to make sure a round fed into chamber. I have or have owned all actions except for an Impact, and this guy is noticeably by far the smoothest Ive ran.
The only down side is the flat base of the action I cant swap into other stocks BUT XLR makes a chassi that is inletted for it. I hope other companies start to do the same. Will be a big selling pt but I guess I cant complain my Kelblys bedded KTS stock had no problems with accuracy dept.
SPECS
- Blackbear Action
- Krieger barrel 26"
- VV N140 30.0 grains
- 105 bergers going 2800
- Kelbly KTS stock
- Burris XTR3 with race dial (very very useful)
- SCR2 retc
- SAP 2 rnd holder (short br version)
Regards
DT
Made in america is debatable. If are, Burris made a huge mistake in not putting anywhere on the box or scope.
Msrp doesn't mean anything. 90% of the time, msrp is high and street price is low so that people think that they are getting a deal and it sells more. Who would look at a G2 at almost $3k or a Leupold for $6k? But people see them on the streets for 40% off and it looks like a huge steal. I'm not arguing for or against either scope , just saying that comparing MSRP is pointless unless that's the price you are paying.
"Made" in America is probably the wrong term, it should rather be "Assembled" in America as I believe parts are still coming from overseas. The Vortex AMG series I believe are the only truly "Made" in America scopes where everything is sourced here in the USA (though latest gens have their reticles etched in Germany, but glass is still from USA if I recall). That being said, I still think Assembled in USA holds some weight, instead of having cheap labor overseas they are deciding to put together here in the USA and in the long run that benefits everybody (in the USA of course).
The actually street prices (which one can assume are MAP prices) are very similar between the two, and the Mark 5hd also depending on models chosen.
3.6-18 MK5 $1800
3.3-18 XTR3 $1750
3-18 RZR G2 $1700
5-25 MK5 $2000
5.5-30 XTR3 $1850
4.5-27 RZR G2 $2000
Vendor prices are often even closer.
I looked through a burris for a quick moment at a recent match, glass looked good and I could easily ID targets out to 800.
I dont know the answer to that..
Vendors handle all Burris sales. They have these in Greeley and are shipping. Vendors should have these products in hand very soon.
I’ve struggled with this for years.
It seems like Burris has a few guys in the product management and engineering department that are clearly very smart and capable of coming out with features and tweaks that are unique and desirable.
Yet time and time again they seem to be hampered by what I assume is out-of-touch European ownership and bureaucracy.
It’s disappointing to see yet another Burris product that seems to be on-par (in terms of IQ) with 5-year-old Vortex product at a similar street price point.
Another pain-point is the service; not even speaking to the warranty itself, but Burris needs to unfuck their service department.
It’s pretty disheartening to have multiple friends return (or later sell at a loss) products that I recommended because of obvious, easily verifiable failures (flickering illumination under recoil on carbine LPVOs) and have them report back that the service folks at Burris called them liars and returned their scopes back as-is.
The complete lack of effort to fix their service and pricing has all the hallmarks of European management; when buyers are faced with choosing between the two optics with very-accessible Vortex veteran or industry discounts that bring the G2 under the XTR3 price, Burris just got handed another L.
It seems like Burris has a few guys in the product management and engineering department that are clearly very smart and capable of coming out with features and tweaks that are unique and desirable.
Yet time and time again they seem to be hampered by what I assume is out-of-touch European ownership and bureaucracy.
It’s disappointing to see yet another Burris product that seems to be on-par (in terms of IQ) with 5-year-old Vortex product at a similar street price point.
Another pain-point is the service; not even speaking to the warranty itself, but Burris needs to unfuck their service department.
It’s pretty disheartening to have multiple friends return (or later sell at a loss) products that I recommended because of obvious, easily verifiable failures (flickering illumination under recoil on carbine LPVOs) and have them report back that the service folks at Burris called them liars and returned their scopes back as-is.
The complete lack of effort to fix their service and pricing has all the hallmarks of European management; when buyers are faced with choosing between the two optics with very-accessible Vortex veteran or industry discounts that bring the G2 under the XTR3 price, Burris just got handed another L.
XTR3 sales are doing very well. There have been a couple new product bugs, but they are working on them, and returns have been minimal.
The glass, features, and price point is right where they want it to be. They never set out to make an alpha glass scope. If its equal to a 5 year old Razor that happens to be the best selling precision rifle competition scope on the market, then so be it.
And just like everyone else, CS horror stories abound. Everyone has some to share, it's a Pandoura's box in this day and age. I've had lousy issues with both Vortex and Bushnell, but still enjoy the brands, I still own products from both manufacturers. I think Vortex is probably the best CS in the business, but that still doesnt save them from making mistakes and upsetting customers. They have very deep pockets and make good use of it.
Feedback has been pretty positive over the handful of social media sites I follow. I'm sure Burris will do just fine with the optic. Appreciate the feedback though..
The glass, features, and price point is right where they want it to be. They never set out to make an alpha glass scope. If its equal to a 5 year old Razor that happens to be the best selling precision rifle competition scope on the market, then so be it.
And just like everyone else, CS horror stories abound. Everyone has some to share, it's a Pandoura's box in this day and age. I've had lousy issues with both Vortex and Bushnell, but still enjoy the brands, I still own products from both manufacturers. I think Vortex is probably the best CS in the business, but that still doesnt save them from making mistakes and upsetting customers. They have very deep pockets and make good use of it.
Feedback has been pretty positive over the handful of social media sites I follow. I'm sure Burris will do just fine with the optic. Appreciate the feedback though..
Man I really appreciate the thought and time put into your reply. I’m currently running a gen 2 3-18 and was looking at the bigger 4.5-27 or the 5-30 XTR III. Not in a hurry so I’ll keep tabs on how they continue to perform. Figured you would be the guy to ask, so thanks again.
So, I've been running the XTR III 5.5-30X56 for a little while now for a review I was working on and along the way I'd been comparing it to my NF 5-25 ATACR. Unfortunately, I don't have a Vortex Gen II to compare it to but compared to the NF, the two are really very close. Doing a side by side comparison of the two looking at the same objects, the NF had a little better IQ with less CA and maybe slightly better resolution. That being said, the Burris was no slouch so when I say the NF had slightly better IQ I mean that if the NF was a 10, the Burris would be a 8.5-9. I did notice that when the scopes were set to the same magnification it seemed like the Burris had a slightly better eye box with a similar field of view.
I've tested the tracking on both scopes and both scopes tracked perfectly, nothing really earth shattering to report there. I like the feel of the elevation knob better on the NF but I think that's because I'm used to it, the Burris elevation knob is still very audible and tactile, not mushy at all. Oddly enough, the Burris has better feel on the windage knob compared to the NF. Parallax is equal between them in so far as feel and function, but I'd say the numbers on the Burris are closer to being accurate, at least as far as I could unscientifically test at 50, 100, 300 and closer out to infinity.
All in all I think the Burris is a solid option in the sub-$2000 category considering that it's more than a $1,000 cheaper than the NF, lighter, and the same length while having an extra 5X on the top end. Again, I don't have a Gen II Razor to compare this too but I imagine it'd compare favorably there as well while also being much lighter. I've good luck with Burris optics in the past so I have every confidence in this scope.
I've tested the tracking on both scopes and both scopes tracked perfectly, nothing really earth shattering to report there. I like the feel of the elevation knob better on the NF but I think that's because I'm used to it, the Burris elevation knob is still very audible and tactile, not mushy at all. Oddly enough, the Burris has better feel on the windage knob compared to the NF. Parallax is equal between them in so far as feel and function, but I'd say the numbers on the Burris are closer to being accurate, at least as far as I could unscientifically test at 50, 100, 300 and closer out to infinity.
All in all I think the Burris is a solid option in the sub-$2000 category considering that it's more than a $1,000 cheaper than the NF, lighter, and the same length while having an extra 5X on the top end. Again, I don't have a Gen II Razor to compare this too but I imagine it'd compare favorably there as well while also being much lighter. I've good luck with Burris optics in the past so I have every confidence in this scope.
I'd be curious, you mention FOV was fairly similar but the XTR III is using what appears to be a wide angle eyepiece and spec wise shows much wider FOV at the bottom end compared to the ATACR. If you get a chance, take a look with both set at bottom mag and then around 10x on both and share your results, also, while you're testing this, also look at edge to edge sharpness between the two at these mags. This is one area (FOV) where it seems the XTR III has a big advantage which I've come to appreciate in newer scopes.
I can do that, maybe today but it's about dark when I get home usually. I knew right after I hit post reply that I should've prefaced that when I said the FOV was similar, my unscientific method for testing this was to put them on the same magnification, pointed at the same object, and observe. Generally, I saw objects in about the same place in the field of view as the other one but no real way to measure the actual FOV.
That's what I do as well, I don't actually measure but I set both to the same magnification and then observe the extremes of the left and right side of the FOV (edges). One other consideration is the fact that magnification ring markings are not always accurate, so 10x on one scope and 10x on another scope could actually be slightly "off", but no need to burden yourself with that, I trust your eyes as you are familiar with both scopes.
Right, but specs don't always represent the whole picture. I use specs as the starting point, but field use trumps everything else
Ok, so I just compared the two again 25X, 19X, 10X, and low power. 25X was easy because the magnification ring on both scopes is engraved with a "25" but after that it gets a little iffier because they are engraved the same. The NF is engraved with "19" but I had to go just past the "20" on the XTR III, same for "10", the NF isn't labeled so I lined it up between "9" and "11".
Now all that being said, the object that I was viewing was about 1,200 yards away with an adjacent field on the left side and trees the other side. Due to my positioning I also had a power pole about 75 yards away that will come into play later.
25X: It was really too close to call between the two, what I could see in the FOV was pretty much the same.
19X: Still pretty close to call definitively.
10X: The edge goes to the XTR III as the wider FOV is becoming more noticeable, I can see a little more into the adjacent field and a good bit of the power pole in the right side of my field of view. With the NF the FOV is more narrow and I'm not seeing as much of the power pole.
Low power (5X for the NF, 5.5X for the XTRIII): Yeah the difference in FOV here is pretty stunning, the Burris is much wider compared to the NF, I'm seeing way back to the corner of the adjacent field and the whole width of the power pole and then some. In the NF, I have about half the pile of lumber that's in the back corner of the field in the left side of my FOV and can't quite see the entire width of the power pole in the right side.
In terms of edge to edge clarity both scopes are good, I didn't notice any major edge distortion or anything in either scope. Again, the eye box is a lot better on the Burris at just about every magnification compared to my ATACR but the ATACR had better IQ in my opinion, that being said the difference really wouldn't hold you back.
So there you have it. In my opinion, both have great fit and finish, perfectly functional, tracking is spot on. An edge goes to the NF for overall image quality but concedes some ground to the Burris in terms of eye box and FOV at lower magnification.
Now all that being said, the object that I was viewing was about 1,200 yards away with an adjacent field on the left side and trees the other side. Due to my positioning I also had a power pole about 75 yards away that will come into play later.
25X: It was really too close to call between the two, what I could see in the FOV was pretty much the same.
19X: Still pretty close to call definitively.
10X: The edge goes to the XTR III as the wider FOV is becoming more noticeable, I can see a little more into the adjacent field and a good bit of the power pole in the right side of my field of view. With the NF the FOV is more narrow and I'm not seeing as much of the power pole.
Low power (5X for the NF, 5.5X for the XTRIII): Yeah the difference in FOV here is pretty stunning, the Burris is much wider compared to the NF, I'm seeing way back to the corner of the adjacent field and the whole width of the power pole and then some. In the NF, I have about half the pile of lumber that's in the back corner of the field in the left side of my FOV and can't quite see the entire width of the power pole in the right side.
In terms of edge to edge clarity both scopes are good, I didn't notice any major edge distortion or anything in either scope. Again, the eye box is a lot better on the Burris at just about every magnification compared to my ATACR but the ATACR had better IQ in my opinion, that being said the difference really wouldn't hold you back.
So there you have it. In my opinion, both have great fit and finish, perfectly functional, tracking is spot on. An edge goes to the NF for overall image quality but concedes some ground to the Burris in terms of eye box and FOV at lower magnification.
Magnification rings are usually engraved wrong in the center of the adjustment range, so you have to be careful there.
The most direct way to measure FOV on tactical scopes is to use the reticle. On 25x, you can easily calculate how many mrad (or MOA if you are one of those weirdos) the FOV is. As you go down in magnification, some reticle do not extend all the way out, but at higher mags you should be able to measure quite easily.
ILya
The most direct way to measure FOV on tactical scopes is to use the reticle. On 25x, you can easily calculate how many mrad (or MOA if you are one of those weirdos) the FOV is. As you go down in magnification, some reticle do not extend all the way out, but at higher mags you should be able to measure quite easily.
ILya
