Rifle Scopes Burris XTR3!!!

[BoulderE89]

I know of 5 failed xtr3 between myself and 2 other shooters. I've owned 4 mk5hd and know quite a few others who, like myself, no issues. I'd go mk5hd with the new pr2-mil reticle. I like mine a lot, just wish it had the bigger eyebox of the xtr3. Like supercorndogs said, they have their pros and cons, but to me, reliability is #1.

If you don’t mind me asking, what were the failures you saw?

 

[346ci]

I know of 5 failed xtr3 between myself and 2 other shooters. I've owned 4 mk5hd and know quite a few others who, like myself, no issues. I'd go mk5hd with the new pr2-mil reticle. I like mine a lot, just wish it had the bigger eyebox of the xtr3. Like supercorndogs said, they have their pros and cons, but to me, reliability is #1.

That is a large failure rate, what where the failures and how did Burris respond?

 

[346ci]

That sucks, what round or load are you shooting for such recoil?

 

[Chickentoast]

Mine is fine but I'm a fair weather shooter essentially playing long range 3D billiards. To me, glass is a bit better than MK5 also (had both at same time). I've shot a few hundred rounds of 308 and ~250 rounds of 300 RUM with mine.

 

[Birddog6424]

In all fairness, you were the one 2 years ago saying it was coming soon so...

Haha, true.

The decision makers at Burris had a change of heart on the illuminated version and ended up not sticking to the original plan. Then the whole thing turned into a feet dragging issue because there was no plan at all.

In a nutshell, the XTR3 is a victim of its own success.. I think at this point they are hoping the large backlog of orders that has made them reluctant to stop production on the Competition model and change over to the illuminated model, will change. I think they are hoping vendors will change their orders to the illuminated version once production begins.

Unlike past cases, a production start date is now on the calendar.

That is a large failure rate, what where the failures and how did Burris respond?

I'm also aware of about a handful of broken XTR3s. The first production run on the 30x and 18x scopes had a couple bugs. Khuber up there had issues as he mentioned, and there was a tracking issue. Sounds like his buddy got one as well, though I'm not aware of anyone on the Burris team in the last handful of years named Matt. @Glassaholic got an 18x with an issue. I'm aware of a couple others as well who got one out of that first run that needed to be returned, including a friend of mine in Utah. I'm only aware of one XTR3 after that initial run that needed to be returned. So only one person that I know of personally has returned this scope. Every other return I have learned about on forums such as this.

My circle of influence on these optics is as big as anyone I'm aware of not employed by Burris. I'm a PRS Match Director for the NW/RM Regional Series, and will be the Regional Director of that series for the 2022 season. I host a two day PRS Pro Series Qualifier every year, and I shoot about 20 single day and two day matches a year between the PRS and NRL. I talk to every shooter I see running a Burris, I've done that for years. I seriously doubt there is anyone outside of Greeley that has gotten as much face to face feedback on the XTR line in the last 5 years as I have.. I also have a Facebook page called Precision Rifle Series for Beginners with 40,000 members. We discuss optics, and Burris optics specifically all the time. I've been on this forum since 2014, and constantly get PMs to discuss Burris scopes.. And if all that isn't enough to establish bona fides, I talk to the Burris brand manager regularly.. the XTR3 is a well-covered subject. I'm personally aware of about 50 to 60 of these being in the wild. As in first or second person contact. I know of about 5 that were specifically bought to replace MK5s, all the buyers are happy, no issues. Some of those are from a gunsmith who offers the 18x XTR3 on a rifle package (about 20 last time I spoke to him). He chose it over the MK5 for performance and cost.

I havent seen or heard of anyone in over a year having an issue with an XTR3. Based on the number of these optics that go back to Greeley, I can tell you that just like the XTR2, this is one of the most durable optics on the market. For one guy to have first hand experience with a handful of breakages is a phenomenal level of bad luck. All evidence of this being a fragile optic from the shooting community I am deeply embedded in is to the contrary.

Glassaholic did an extensive write up here on the Hide on the 18x he received. He called it one of the best optics of its type under 2k. Edging out the MK5 and NX8. I believe he now owns a 30x.

Burris engineers designed this scope from the ground up and began producing it in a brand new facility in Colorado. So the fact that the early versions had some bugs comes as no surprise. They did an amazing job of immediately correcting those issues, and they haven't recurred. No scope is perfect, they all break. But the durability of the XTR3 and the low rate of return is as good as any scope in the industry at any price.

And just to add my personal experience to this novella, I've been running XTRs of one flavor or another in 3 Gun, Hunting, and PRS for 8 years. I've beat the living hell out of a few of them and had to dish them off cheap. Out of the 15 or more some odd XTR2s and XTR3s I've owned over this period of time, there is not one single ocassion they have failed to perform. Ever.

Unconditional Forever Warranty. Never needed it.

 

[Birddog6424]

10# all up 300 norma improved, 11# all up 338 rum. However after the initial replacements, I devoted these xtr3 to lighter recoiling rigs, but my light weight 6.5 saum also has caused the replacement 3.3-18x50 to have the same problem as the original 2. I do have another 3.3-18x50 and a 5.5-30 that aren't exhibiting these problems......yet.

Thats crazy. How on earth are you breaking so many scopes.

I have about 5 XTR3s total. Four 30x, one 18x.

I have one of them on a 300 Norma mag elk rifle that weighs in at 11.5 lbs. I've fired about 250 rounds through that rifle and scope. Even dropped it out of an ATV rack. No issues. I have another one on a 338 Lapua mag Savage 110 BA running 300gr Sierras with about 150 rounds on it. And I swapped that same scope onto a Steyr bolt action 50 caliber for about 70 rounds last summer for some long bomb fun. One on a 6GT and a 22BR for some unkind usage in PRS. And one on my 22 rimfire for PRS22 that gets some serious turret twisting. No issues.

Its a complete head scratcher to me that you are taking these things out when hardly anyone else is. I know bunches of guys using these in ELR and PRS that are having zero issues. Jason Chipley took 3rd overall at Scott Satterlee's Wyoming ELR match with an XTR3 and 300 Norma. Not to mention all his PRS time. @D_TROS runs the hell out of his in PRS and extreme team matches. There's tons of these out there that don't break like this. They've been cranking them out for two years now.

You've got bad juju.. If we ever meet in person, you're not allowed to touch my rifle.

 

[Chickentoast]

I had a dreaded '04 Range Rover for ~10 years and put about 120K miles on her. Never a hiccup. Both tails of the bell curve can be experienced! One of the few times in my life I've been lucky

 

[Birddog6424]

Talk to Matt Nietzke, a formerly sponsored Burris guy, there's a reason he dropped the free scopes. He had major problems went back to Kahles. Matt's a great shooter too, belive we was #11 at the Horandy PRS in Utah. He's running a 20# 6.5x47 so no recoil problems there. The quality control in these is just very hit and miss I feel.

Well we've tumbled down this rabbit hole far enough, so I figured it was time to get to the bottom of it. Here's the "other side of the story".

I dont know Matt. We have a ton of mutual friends and shoot a lot of the same matches.. I'm sure he's a very nice guy who's been dragged into this conversation. No one at Burris has heard of Matt. At least the two guys in charge of the team and "free scopes" havent heard of him. Its possible he may have been affiliated at the club level somewhere, friend of a friend, wearing the Burris logo, getting an insider discount or a discount certificate. In chatting with Dorgan, its possible he helped him get a deal. But Burris management didn't put him on the team or give him free products. So thank goodness for him he didn't have to "drop the free scopes".

In January of 2021 Matt sent in a 30x optic with "mushy turrets and parallax issues". For some reason, according to the technician notes, the turret was maxed out when received by Burris.. the customer had the turret dialed all the way up. The scope was tracking and parallax tested and passed 100%. The completely functional scope was returned to Matt within a two week time period.

(Edit: I've since found out that Matt won the Guardian match with his scope in November 2020. He contacted Dorgan about the turret feeling a little loose while dialed up. That explains why Burris received it in that manner.)

In March of 2021, Matt returned two 30x scopes to Burris. There is zero documentation showing any complaint or malfunction with either optic. Burris exchanged them for two 18x optics. It looks an awful lot like the customer simply returned two perfectly good scopes, and Burris was nice enough to exchange them, not for another pair of 30x, but for 18x. Definitely nice of them.

As for your scope returns Khuber, you and I spoke back in 2019 about the issue you believed you were having with your 30x that came out of the first run. I interceded on your behalf with Burris management. An RMA was sent to you, and you received a replacement scope in two weeks time.

They immediately replaced the scope you returned because they wanted to see what was wrong with it. I remember forwarding to you the theory they had about the possible cause. But as it turns out, complete inspection of the scope revealed nothing. Burris techs and engineers could find nothing wrong with your scope. And that's it. There's no further record of you returning an 18x or any other scope. According to Burris records you returned one scope two years ago that was handled promptly.

According to Burris records, none of these scopes were returned for tracking issues as you mentioned above. And only one scope, not three, was returned for FOV/mag ring issues. That one was yours, which we've already covered.

So according to Burris return and technician inspection notes, between the two of you, there were 4 returned scopes, or whats far more likely is three scopes, with the one Matt sent in January that was returned to him, being sent in again for exchange in March. Burris promptly repaired or replaced every one of them. And none of them were broken. Those are the facts according to Burris records.

Here's my opinion.

I would say you were treated great by Burris customer service. They easily could have inspected and returned your scope. It was fine. You got a new scope on a two week turnaround and according to their records, havent sent in another one since.

Matt was treated better than great, being allowed to exchange two 30x for two 18x. Sounds to me like someone decided they wanted the 18x instead and Burris was nice enough to swap them.

Yet here you are....talking about all these busted Burris scopes you've returned and how all these other Burris scopes you own are almost busted too. When no one else has the issues you are having in spades, it seems odd. When the folks that make the scope don't see the issue you claim you are seeing in multiple scopes it seems even odder. You seem to be the only guy on the planet having these problems with the XTR3, and you have seen it multiple times. It occurs to me that whatever it is you are seeing has no effect on the performance of the optic, so no one else pays any attention to it? But that's speculation, I have no idea what it looks like to you.

So I'm just going to leave this here. You've told your side, and now the folks in Greeley have allowed me to tell theirs.

That is a large failure rate, what where the failures and how did Burris respond?

See above...

 

[Yoteski]

My XTRIII continues to work great. Survived quite a few tough matches now with no ill effects. Still think they're one of the best values for the $. Will be running one in the NRL Hunter finale next week.

 

[Birddog6424]

My XTRIII continues to work great. Survived quite a few tough matches now with no ill effects. Still think they're one of the best values for the $. Will be running one in the NRL Hunter finale next week.

Good luck!!

 

[lennyo3034]

I was worried about the recoil on my B14R damaging my XTRIII so I moved it to my dasher.

 

[Chiavettas_Yum!]

Well we've tumbled down this rabbit hole far enough, so I figured it was time to get to the bottom of it. Here's the "other side of the story".

I dont know Matt. We have a ton of mutual friends and shoot a lot of the same matches.. I'm sure he's a very nice guy who's been dragged into this conversation. No one at Burris has heard of Matt. At least the two guys in charge of the team and "free scopes" havent heard of him. Its possible he may have been affiliated at the club level somewhere, friend of a friend, wearing the Burris logo, getting an insider discount or a discount certificate. In chatting with Dorgan, its possible he helped him get a deal. But Burris management didn't put him on the team or give him free products. So thank goodness for him he didn't have to "drop the free scopes".

In January of 2021 Matt sent in a 30x optic with "mushy turrets and parallax issues". For some reason, according to the technician notes, the turret was maxed out when received by Burris.. the customer had the turret dialed all the way up. The scope was tracking and parallax tested and passed 100%. The completely functional scope was returned to Matt within a two week time period.

(Edit: I've since found out that Matt won the Guardian match with his scope in November 2020. He contacted Dorgan about the turret feeling a little loose while dialed up. That explains why Burris received it in that manner.)

In March of 2021, Matt returned two 30x scopes to Burris. There is zero documentation showing any complaint or malfunction with either optic. Burris exchanged them for two 18x optics. It looks an awful lot like the customer simply returned two perfectly good scopes, and Burris was nice enough to exchange them, not for another pair of 30x, but for 18x. Definitely nice of them.

As for your scope returns Khuber, you and I spoke back in 2019 about the issue you believed you were having with your 30x that came out of the first run. I interceded on your behalf with Burris management. An RMA was sent to you, and you received a replacement scope in two weeks time.

They immediately replaced the scope you returned because they wanted to see what was wrong with it. I remember forwarding to you the theory they had about the possible cause. But as it turns out, complete inspection of the scope revealed nothing. Burris techs and engineers could find nothing wrong with your scope. And that's it. There's no further record of you returning an 18x or any other scope. According to Burris records you returned one scope two years ago that was handled promptly.

According to Burris records, none of these scopes were returned for tracking issues as you mentioned above. And only one scope, not three, was returned for FOV/mag ring issues. That one was yours, which we've already covered.

So according to Burris return and technician inspection notes, between the two of you, there were 4 returned scopes, or whats far more likely is three scopes, with the one Matt sent in January that was returned to him, being sent in again for exchange in March. Burris promptly repaired or replaced every one of them. And none of them were broken. Those are the facts according to Burris records.

Here's my opinion.

I would say you were treated great by Burris customer service. They easily could have inspected and returned your scope. It was fine. You got a new scope on a two week turnaround and according to their records, havent sent in another one since.

Matt was treated better than great, being allowed to exchange two 30x for two 18x. Sounds to me like someone decided they wanted the 18x instead and Burris was nice enough to swap them.

Yet here you are....talking about all these busted Burris scopes you've returned and how all these other Burris scopes you own are almost busted too. When no one else has the issues you are having in spades, it seems odd. When the folks that make the scope don't see the issue you claim you are seeing in multiple scopes it seems even odder. You seem to be the only guy on the planet having these problems with the XTR3, and you have seen it multiple times. It occurs to me that whatever it is you are seeing has no effect on the performance of the optic, so no one else pays any attention to it? But that's speculation, I have no idea what it looks like to you.

So I'm just going to leave this here. You've told your side, and now the folks in Greeley have allowed me to tell theirs.


See above...

I can understand that a company wants to defend its name, but I’m disappointed that Burris feels it necessary to publicly post such detailed customer information.

Good scopes, bad scopes, whatever. People move on and forget about product issues. What people don’t forget is when the company takes actions outside the line of professionalism. In my opinion, Burris just crossed that line.

 

[Birddog6424]

I can understand that a company wants to defend its name, but I’m disappointed that Burris feels it necessary to publicly post such detailed customer information.

Good scopes, bad scopes, whatever. People move on and forget about product issues. What people don’t forget is when the company takes actions outside the line of professionalism. In my opinion, Burris just crossed that line.

I disagree. This information was already brought onto this forum and publicly discussed. Names were already revealed, as were scope returns. I only provided dates and details of the returns. Thats it.

Matt's name was the one hung out in the wind, and I didn't do that. He was revealed as being on the Burris team, and returning broken scopes, and moving on to Kahles. I explained Matt wasn't on the team, showed the information that he had returned no broken scopes.

My post is simply a fact check of the information already given. At no point in time is any sensitive customer information revealed.

This isn't medical records, addresses or phone numbers. The information isn't harmful to anyone,, and its not protected.. This is scope return dates, the reason they were returned, and Burris' response. People ask for info of that nature all the time. And they discuss that very information on these pages whenever they talk about the customer service they received.. A poster on this page asked for feedback on Burris' response.

You are giving this far more brevity than it deserves. This stuff isn't a secret.. And I think the very large majority of people would agree that a business has every right to respond and tell the other half of the story. Anything else is simply tossing that business under the bus and calling them unprofessional for actually caring about what their customers think.

 

[Curr]

I'm glad you posted that @Birddog6424 and I thank you. This XTR III 5.5-30 is my first "nice" scope, on my first "accurate" rifle (Bergara BMP 6.5CM) as I dip my toe into this world, and I want all the clarity on all sides of the story. It makes me even more sure of my purchase, in this case. So thank you from a newbie (to this stuff).

 

[Mjnelson]

I have tried several scopes in this price range. Mark5, k624i, a few low scopes like the tango6, tract, and razor.
I’m no pro at reviews so I’m not going to write up a big long story, if anyone would like my take on a comparison feel free to pm me.
however this xtr3 I’m keeping. Best way to put it I think is it has mk5 glass, with a reticle that’s actually useful and killer fov. The 20 through 30 zoom is bright. If you ever look through a tract or tango6 you would know it gets dark fast. Razor is good if you must have illumination. Hint hint Burris. Doesn’t have any bad habits like heavy CA, extreme weight. Or tunneling. Turrets are good with lots of options for elevation and wind if you want them. Simple zerostop that’s fast to set and zero.
Good scope guys. For those with scope ADD, it’s a cure lol

 

[Hickswr]

Thanks Birddog!

An XTRIII is now on my shortlist b/c of your detailed & factual response.

 

[Chiavettas_Yum!]

I disagree. This information was already brought onto this forum and publicly discussed. Names were already revealed, as were scope returns. I only provided dates and details of the returns. Thats it.

Matt's name was the one hung out in the wind, and I didn't do that. He was revealed as being on the Burris team, and returning broken scopes, and moving on to Kahles. I explained Matt wasn't on the team, showed the information that he had returned no broken scopes.

My post is simply a fact check of the information already given. At no point in time is any sensitive customer information revealed.

This isn't medical records, addresses or phone numbers. The information isn't harmful to anyone,, and its not protected.. This is scope return dates, the reason they were returned, and Burris' response. People ask for info of that nature all the time. And they discuss that very information on these pages whenever they talk about the customer service they received.. A poster on this page asked for feedback on Burris' response.

You are giving this far more brevity than it deserves. This stuff isn't a secret.. And I think the very large majority of people would agree that a business has every right to respond and tell the other half of the story. Anything else is simply tossing that business under the bus and calling them unprofessional for actually caring about what their customers think.

I appreciate your response but still find it uncouth that a guy who hasn’t “entered the chat” is having his customer information put out based on some rando’s hearsay. If I was this Matt guy (which I’m not), I may not be pleased my name being dropped on the forum and being dragged into this without consent, nor the details related to supposed issues with his Burris customer service interaction.

However, this is just my opinion and I’m not wanting to beat a dead horse or further derail this thread.

In Burris’ defense and to try to bring this thread back on track, I absolutely love my XTR II for the value it has given me with 1000+ rds from 100 yards and past 1 mile. I’m holding off on the XTR III for illumination and I hope we see it soon.

 

[Birddog6424]

I appreciate your response but still find it uncouth that a guy who hasn’t “entered the chat” is having his customer information put out based on some rando’s hearsay. If I was this Matt guy (which I’m not), I may not be pleased my name being dropped on the forum and being dragged into this without consent, nor the details related to supposed issues with his Burris customer service interaction.

However, this is just my opinion and I’m not wanting to beat a dead horse or further derail this thread.

In Burris’ defense and to try to bring this thread back on track, I absolutely love my XTR II for the value it has given me with 1000+ rds from 100 yards and past 1 mile. I’m holding off on the XTR III for illumination and I hope we see it soon.

I agree with you there brother..

Matt got dragged into this on a name drop. He's a friend of Dorgan Trostel's who is the Burris shooter who started this thread two and a half years ago. Its my hope that he's understanding of the situation. I would certainly apologize if he wasn't. But I wouldn't be the only guy who owed him one.

Hang in there on the illuminated model. They are taking it to production soon. The goal, barring any unforeseen delays or design tweaks, is to have it on the shelves no later than the end of the year. That's direct from brand management.

 

[D_TROS]

Talk to Matt Nietzke, a formerly sponsored Burris guy, there's a reason he dropped the free scopes. He had major problems went back to Kahles. Matt's a great shooter too, belive we was #11 at the Horandy PRS in Utah. He's running a 20# 6.5x47 so no recoil problems there. The quality control in these is just very hit and miss I feel.

Matt is a good friend. He won a match using his scope XTR3 so not sure what else needs to be asked. lol. He has several scopes. I dont know if he wanted better glass or pref another retc I havnt asked him. He a grown man Im not baby sitting him and what he uses. I own or have owned every scope available except a ZCO... Its just nice to have a scope that doesnt break the bank that has all the features plus some to cover all my rifles (and my 4 sons rifles)

I work construction I cant afford 5 TT scopes. I follow this scope closely. I have heard of literally 0 tacking issues and an early run of scopes that had the image somehow shift when zooming (which was covered in this thread couple pages back) but it does not effect the tracking/performance of the scope at all.

Im not sure why you are coming so hard against this scope after this was covered so long ago...It has one of the best trrack records among scopes period. I have a phenominal shooting record with this scope including wins along with my fiend Matt. Ive used them since they came out and have not had a single issue. Lucky I guess

My XTRIII continues to work great. Survived quite a few tough matches now with no ill effects. Still think they're one of the best values for the $. Will be running one in the NRL Hunter finale next week.

Me too!! Super excited. I dropped my rifle and cant get a sunshade to screw on...I might have to test out the forever warranty!! after the match... lol.

I was worried about the recoil on my B14R damaging my XTRIII so I moved it to my dasher.

I was worried about the recoil on my XTRIII damaging my 6BR so I moved it to my 338.

True story. haha.



End of day, I will not only be supporting a local company that is going out of the way to make a USA made product, but I will take any growing pains they have to have the opportunity to do so. Burris is a really small company. What they have achieved is mind blowing. TOOOOOO many winy beeches complain about the state of the country then go to walmart and amazon to buy their shit. Go be a hypocrite somewhere else (myself included lol - dam that amazon is easy) BUY USA!!!

This thread is worthless w/o pics.

GL
DT

 

[Birddog6424]

Matt is a good friend. He won a match using his scope XTR3 so not sure what else needs to be asked. lol. He has several scopes. I dont know if he wanted better glass or pref another retc I havnt asked him. He a grown man Im not baby sitting him and what he uses. I own or have owned every scope available except a ZCO... Its just nice to have a scope that doesnt break the bank that has all the features plus some to cover all my rifles (and my 4 sons rifles)

I work construction I cant afford 5 TT scopes. I follow this scope closely. I have heard of literally 0 tacking issues and an early run of scopes that had the image somehow shift when zooming (which was covered in this thread couple pages back) but it does not effect the tracking/performance of the scope at all.

Im not sure why you are coming so hard against this scope after this was covered so long ago...It has one of the best trrack records among scopes period. I have a phenominal shooting record with this scope including wins along with my fiend Matt. Ive used them since they came out and have not had a single issue. Lucky I guess




Me too!! Super excited. I dropped my rifle and cant get a sunshade to screw on...I might have to test out the forever warranty!! after the match... lol.




I was worried about the recoil on my XTRIII damaging my 6BR so I moved it to my 338.

True story. haha.



End of day, I will not only be supporting a local company that is going out of the way to make a USA made product, but I will take any growing pains they have to have the opportunity to do so. Burris is a really small company. What they have achieved is mind blowing. TOOOOOO many winy beeches complain about the state of the country then go to walmart and amazon to buy their shit. Go be a hypocrite somewhere else (myself included lol - dam that amazon is easy) BUY USA!!!

This thread is worthless w/o pics.

View attachment 7677460


View attachment 7677465

GL
DT

Amen to all of that...

Funny that I have the exact opposite problem. After knocking over my rifle on one of those stupid chain swinging shooting platforms,, I cant get my sunshade off!

 

[Yoteski]

Me too!! Super excited. I dropped my rifle and cant get a sunshade to screw on...I might have to test out the forever warranty!! after the match... lol.

Technically I'll be RO/shooting since they were trying to find qualified RO's. Should be a good time!

 

[J-Ham]

Amen to all of that...

Funny that I have the exact opposite problem. After knocking over my rifle on one of those stupid chain swinging shooting platforms,, I cant get my sunshade off!

Maybe you & @D_TROS can just trade scopes, haha!

 

[Kane0519]

This thread is worthless w/o pics.

View attachment 7677460


View attachment 7677465

GL
DT

I like your tactical lizard to help adjust the magnification for you.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

how does the XTR III compare to the Ares ETR, if anyone is willing to share views? The price is a little higher for the burris, but I dont know anyone who owns one to try it out.

Shot a friend's ares side by side with my vortex, and convinced me enough to order an Ares for the glass quality.. Would really be interested in the burris 5.5-30x56 compared to the similar Ares ETR

 

[Glassaholic]

^^^ Ares is made in China, I would not buy it for that reason alone. Because of this, the extra cost of the XTR III assembled in the USA is well worth it to me.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

^^^ Ares is made in China, I would not buy it for that reason alone. Because of this, the extra cost of the XTR III assembled in the USA is well worth it to me.

Burris has sold scopes made by LOW (their LVPO for example), which is in Japan, with Athlon also using this company. I dont consider assembly country a heavy factor in how it performs for me when I shoot it.

 

[Birddog6424]

Burris has sold scopes made by LOW (their LVPO for example), which is in Japan, with Athlon also using this company. I dont consider assembly country a heavy factor in how it performs for me when I shoot it.

Athlon only has one scope, the Cronus, being made by LOW in Japan. Everything else is made in China.

Just because Athlon uses Japan for one optic and Burris has used Japan for optics, doesn't make them all the same. There's zero correlation there for a comparison.

The Ares is made in China, the XTR3 is made in Colorado. Burris has complete design and quality control over every single XTR3. Two people inspect each scope before it goes out the door. Athlon only tests a few scopes per batch of optics shipped to them from China. It's a complete different game with many reasons why the Burris made stateside is a better option.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Athlon only has one scope, the Cronus, being made by LOW in Japan. Everything else is made in China.

Just because Athlon uses Japan for one optic and Burris has used Japan for optics, doesn't make them all the same. There's zero correlation there for a comparison.

The Ares is made in China, the XTR3 is made in Colorado. Burris has complete design and quality control over every single XTR3. Athlon only tests a few scopes per batch of optics shipped to them from China. It's a complete different game with many reasons why the Burris made stateside is a better option.

I guess I wasnt clear enough previously. Im not looking at "country of origin/assembly" as a measurement. I get some feel good about it, but thats not what I'm interested in.

Vortex, by far, has had the best customer service for me, and they sell plenty of Chinese glass. Havent had to replace one yet, but when I have contacted them, for things like scope ring height recommendations, its clear their customer support is more knowledgable than the average CS, and is made up of people that shoot and are passionate. If they offered a scope in the magnification I'm looking for, I'd buy it already and not even post this question.

My point was, and still is, that if LOW is considered adequate for both Burris and Athlon, then its fair to say that both companies goals for quality control and value have some overlap. That says nothing about where they are at now, or where they have been on every single product. It is simply a statement that if we both buy groceries from the same place, we're likely not comparing dollar tree to whole foods, as much as one of us might want to say so.

I was looking for an objective comparison, because the XTR II compared to the Athlon option has been openly reviewed both on the hide and all over the internet, and in most cases, the Athlon was the clear winner, with the common point being "wait until the XTR III comes out". Googling this comparison provides a youtube video in the top results that compares Athlon and Burris XTRII side by side and also spells out a clear winner.

Others (significantly more respected than myself, an admitted newbie) have written here that within the price point the XTR III exists, there are many proven quality scopes (Athlon being one of them) that would likely be a better choice. Many of them dont wear a brand or receive free stuff, so I imagine that the bias isnt as significant as it could be, to make those kind of statements.

Similarly, the quality control is a non-factor for me, if the product quality isn't below-average to begin with. Per your own admission, the first XTR III's sold had issues as well, that made it past quality control: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/burris-xtr-ii.7024845/post-8861157 whether that number is minor or not, I wouldn't be happy to get one that made it past QC and have to deal with replacing a brand new product.

 

[Franko]

how does the XTR III compare to the Ares ETR, if anyone is willing to share views? The price is a little higher for the burris, but I dont know anyone who owns one to try it out.

Shot a friend's ares side by side with my vortex, and convinced me enough to order an Ares for the glass quality.. Would really be interested in the burris 5.5-30x56 compared to the similar Ares ETR

I owned an Ares ETR for my precision 22LR and sold it because eyebox was very tight at high magnification (and I spend a lot of time there) and I was spoiled by the better glass on my centerfire rifles. I replaced it with an XTR3 and am very pleased with it. The eyebox is much easier to deal with at high magnification, the FOV is wider, and the glass is nicer. It's not my ZCO 5-27 but for the money and my use case I don't think you can beat the XTR3. I have owned the scope for about 6 months and so far haven't had any issues.

 

[Hickswr]

how does the XTR III compare to the Ares ETR, if anyone is willing to share views? The price is a little higher for the burris, but I dont know anyone who owns one to try it out.

Shot a friend's ares side by side with my vortex, and convinced me enough to order an Ares for the glass quality.. Would really be interested in the burris 5.5-30x56 compared to the similar Ares ETR

I don’t understand why anyone would pay $1K for an ARES ETR when a Cronus can be had for not much more at all and the same price if buying used. What am I missing?

I have a Cronus and an ARES BTR ($350 new) but I’ve never even considered buying a ARES ETR ($1K made in China scope).

 

[AleksanderSuave]

I don’t understand why anyone would pay $1K for an ARES ETR when a Cronus can be had for not much more at all and the same price if buying used. What am I missing?

I have a Cronus and an ARES BTR ($350 new) but I’ve never even considered buying a ARES ETR ($1K made in China scope).

Ares ETR can be had for $899 . The Cronus is approx. $300 more for the best price Ive found. I havent found many for sale used, to be honest with you, at all. Would have certainly considered one if I saw it.

watching this video has me wondering what $300 more buys, rather than what $300 less gets. Locking turrets on the cheaper model, and better feeling turrets overall being key points in the video, if you're not interested in watching through all of it.

"slightly better glass" being Cronus's advantage. I guess I'd need to see one in person to know if its worth an extra $300 for me.

 

[D_TROS]

Ares ETR can be had for $899 . The Cronus is approx. $300 more for the best price Ive found. I havent found many for sale used, to be honest with you, at all. Would have certainly considered one if I saw it.

watching this video has me wondering what $300 more buys, rather than what $300 less gets. Locking turrets on the cheaper model, and better feeling turrets overall being key points in the video, if you're not interested in watching through all of it.

Not interested. They dont compare. AT ALL. Ive seen all of the Athlon scopes and the 3 times I saw them at matches and 2 of them broke. They have horrible FOV and i hate their retc. Vortex (G2)/Leupold (mk5) both smoke them as well. They have nothing I want.

You mentioned "(Athlon being one of them) that would likely be a better choice" yet you have admittingly not had them side by side. ummm what? I have. Multiple times. Athlon is crap. Literally crap. They make one decent scope and even it is sub XTR3. Closer to XTR2 with higher acceptable error in tracking.

Yes im a scope snob. Yes im a xenophobe. Take your china love to another Athlon love fest thread please. This isnt a "lets compare $300 shit scopes" thread.


Regards
DT

 

[Birddog6424]

You're going to get a significantly nicer eyebox in the XTR3. Not mention a much better FOV. The XTR3 has an edge to edge glass look to it when you get behind it. Very thin black ring of scope tube is visible. It makes a lot of other optics look like your looking through a tunnel or narrow tube.

And the glass is better. Plain and simple. I dont think any Athlon I've compared to the XTR3, including several Cronus', has as nice of glass. And I think out of all the scopes from LOW, the Cronus is one of the best optically. The rest of the scope around the glass isn't so great... The Ares isn't in the hunt..

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Not interested. They dont compare. AT ALL. Ive seen all of the Athlon scopes and the 3 times I saw them at matches and 2 of them broke. They have horrible FOV and i hate their retc. Vortex (G2)/Leupold (mk5) both smoke them as well. They have nothing I want.

You mentioned "(Athlon being one of them) that would likely be a better choice" yet you have admittingly not had them side by side. ummm what? I have. Multiple times. Athlon is crap. Literally crap. They make one decent scope and even it is sub XTR3. Closer to XTR2 with higher acceptable error in tracking.

Yes im a scope snob. Yes im a xenophobe. Take your china love to another Athlon love fest thread please. This isnt a "lets compare $300 shit scopes" thread.


Regards
DT

Color me shocked that you're not interested in an objective review by a forum member. I guarantee that at least 10 things around you right now, that you've paid for, are made in china.

If you feel so confident in your XTR III, send it to me. I'll gladly compare the two side by side for you.

 

[Birddog6424]

Color me shocked that you're not interested in an objective review by a forum member. I guarantee that at least 10 things around you right now, that you've paid for, are made in china.

If you feel so confident in your XTR III, send it to me. I'll gladly compare the two side by side for you.

Buy one, and compare it side by side.

It'll be the one you keep.

 

[Glassaholic]

Color me shocked that you're not interested in an objective review by a forum member.

I don't think D_TROS ever mentioned he wasn't interested in an objective review?

I guarantee that at least 10 things around you right now, that you've paid for, are made in china.

And why is that? Because the US has for far too long sold out manufacturing to the CCP. I too have Chinese made gear all around me, my stupid iphone that Apple uses to spy on me is made there, I also still have an Amazon account even though they are almost as bad (though I'm trying more to look at alternative places to purchase online), but 2020 "woke me up" and I sure as heck am trying my best to not fund our enemies, and just like my oath when I enlisted - that includes "both foreign and domestic". It's decision making time for patriotic American's.

If you feel so confident in your XTR III, send it to me. I'll gladly compare the two side by side for you.

He already knows the outcome, it's you who doesn't believe him.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

I don't think D_TROS ever mentioned he wasn't interested in an objective review?

Yes im a scope snob. Yes im a xenophobe. Take your china love to another Athlon love fest thread please. This isnt a "lets compare $300 shit scopes" thread.

Clearly. Very objective.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Buy one, and compare it side by side.

It'll be the one you keep.

Why? You're the one representing their brand. You want me to do the legwork in comparing your competing product?


I find it odd how aggressive the people tied to the brand are about the subject of a comparison. Must be a tough idea that the product you endorse should be able to stand on its own when compared objectively to a competitor.

 

[S3th]

Why? You're the one representing their brand. You want me to do the legwork in comparing your competing product?


I find it odd how aggressive the people tied to the brand are about the subject of a comparison. Must be a tough idea that the product you endorse should be able to stand on its own when compared objectively to a competitor.

BRB. Asking Tangent Theta to send me a scope to compare to my NX8.

 

[Long Range 338]

Why? You're the one representing their brand. You want me to do the legwork in comparing your competing product?


I find it odd how aggressive the people tied to the brand are about the subject of a comparison. Must be a tough idea that the product you endorse should be able to stand on its own when compared objectively to a competitor.

OMG, you post in the Burris thread and are surprised to find some fanboys…. Wait, head over to the Leupold thread and start telling them about Chicom gear then act surprised when someone mentions they are trying to support American companies.

 

[spife7980]

Well we've tumbled down this rabbit hole far enough, so I figured it was time to get to the bottom of it. Here's the "other side of the story".

I dont know Matt. We have a ton of mutual friends and shoot a lot of the same matches.. I'm sure he's a very nice guy who's been dragged into this conversation. No one at Burris has heard of Matt. At least the two guys in charge of the team and "free scopes" havent heard of him. Its possible he may have been affiliated at the club level somewhere, friend of a friend, wearing the Burris logo, getting an insider discount or a discount certificate. In chatting with Dorgan, its possible he helped him get a deal. But Burris management didn't put him on the team or give him free products. So thank goodness for him he didn't have to "drop the free scopes".

In January of 2021 Matt sent in a 30x optic with "mushy turrets and parallax issues". For some reason, according to the technician notes, the turret was maxed out when received by Burris.. the customer had the turret dialed all the way up. The scope was tracking and parallax tested and passed 100%. The completely functional scope was returned to Matt within a two week time period.

(Edit: I've since found out that Matt won the Guardian match with his scope in November 2020. He contacted Dorgan about the turret feeling a little loose while dialed up. That explains why Burris received it in that manner.)

In March of 2021, Matt returned two 30x scopes to Burris. There is zero documentation showing any complaint or malfunction with either optic. Burris exchanged them for two 18x optics. It looks an awful lot like the customer simply returned two perfectly good scopes, and Burris was nice enough to exchange them, not for another pair of 30x, but for 18x. Definitely nice of them.

As for your scope returns Khuber, you and I spoke back in 2019 about the issue you believed you were having with your 30x that came out of the first run. I interceded on your behalf with Burris management. An RMA was sent to you, and you received a replacement scope in two weeks time.

They immediately replaced the scope you returned because they wanted to see what was wrong with it. I remember forwarding to you the theory they had about the possible cause. But as it turns out, complete inspection of the scope revealed nothing. Burris techs and engineers could find nothing wrong with your scope. And that's it. There's no further record of you returning an 18x or any other scope. According to Burris records you returned one scope two years ago that was handled promptly.

According to Burris records, none of these scopes were returned for tracking issues as you mentioned above. And only one scope, not three, was returned for FOV/mag ring issues. That one was yours, which we've already covered.

So according to Burris return and technician inspection notes, between the two of you, there were 4 returned scopes, or whats far more likely is three scopes, with the one Matt sent in January that was returned to him, being sent in again for exchange in March. Burris promptly repaired or replaced every one of them. And none of them were broken. Those are the facts according to Burris records.

Here's my opinion.

I would say you were treated great by Burris customer service. They easily could have inspected and returned your scope. It was fine. You got a new scope on a two week turnaround and according to their records, havent sent in another one since.

Matt was treated better than great, being allowed to exchange two 30x for two 18x. Sounds to me like someone decided they wanted the 18x instead and Burris was nice enough to swap them.

Yet here you are....talking about all these busted Burris scopes you've returned and how all these other Burris scopes you own are almost busted too. When no one else has the issues you are having in spades, it seems odd. When the folks that make the scope don't see the issue you claim you are seeing in multiple scopes it seems even odder. You seem to be the only guy on the planet having these problems with the XTR3, and you have seen it multiple times. It occurs to me that whatever it is you are seeing has no effect on the performance of the optic, so no one else pays any attention to it? But that's speculation, I have no idea what it looks like to you.

So I'm just going to leave this here. You've told your side, and now the folks in Greeley have allowed me to tell theirs.


See above...

To catch up to the thread and then drag it back: I will just say that I like my cronuses just fine but I’m not sure why there’s a dick measuring contest going on…

But for the next rifle this post I quoted just sold me on an xtr3. I like that accountability that can be present.

 

[Chickentoast]

Lots of ghey in here right now, beating the dick of the dead horse.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

BRB. Asking Tangent Theta to send me a scope to compare to my NX8.

https://mavenbuilt.com/collections/demo-units Maven will send you a demo. And I dont see their shills calling any another brand "cheap chinese shit"

 

[AleksanderSuave]

OMG, you post in the Burris thread and are surprised to find some fanboys…. Wait, head over to the Leupold thread and start telling them about Chicom gear then act surprised when someone mentions they are trying to support American companies.

I dont really care about the fanboys. I was genuinely curious on a comparison between scopes in a similar pricepoint. Its clear the Athlon is better, or there wouldn't be so many fragile egos afraid of a competitor.

 

[346ci]

https://mavenbuilt.com/collections/demo-units Maven will send you a demo. And I dont see their shills calling any another brand "cheap chinese shit"

Give it up and start with a new attitude, you won't find any help being a dick to well respected members.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Give it up and start with a new attitude, you won't find any help being a dick to well respected members..

The lack of respect was only reciprocated after someone got uptight about their sponsor’s product and me asking some simple questions about how they compare.

My attitude isn’t the one that’s afraid of a foreign product being superior.

 

[Birddog6424]

You asked us how they compare, but now you are telling us they're superior? Suddenly you now know?

We told you how they compare. We've done it. You haven't. You aren't listening.

 

[BoulderE89]

FWIW, I recently sold my Athlon Cronus (incredible value Japanese made scope) to get a Burris xtr iii. for my own personal uses and reasons, I like the Burris more. Wider FOV and what I think is clearer glass and better reticle (love the scr2). and for context sake…I’m a vortex fanboy and run razor Gen 2s on my comp guns

 

[lennyo3034]

I dont really care about the fanboys. I was genuinely curious on a comparison between scopes in a similar pricepoint. Its clear the Athlon is better, or there wouldn't be so many fragile egos afraid of a competitor.

I’m not a huge fan of my XTR3 but still much prefer it over the Cronus I had. I have used the lower end Athlon scopes and I don’t see them as competition to the XTR3. In fact they are irrelevant to the conversation.

I do not represent either company and I paid retail for both scopes.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

You asked us how they compare, but now you are telling us they're superior? Suddenly you now know?

We told you how they compare. We've done it. You haven't. You aren't listening.

Sorry, the comparison must have gotten lost in shuffle with all the dick measuring about country of origin. Those foreign sourced parts must really be inferior. Im off now to pretend my "Made in the USA with global materials" Dewalt tools are all American too.