Buying new car help

Double3

33
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 25, 2013
2,059
145
Ohio
I know there are some current/former car salesman or dealers on here and I'm looking for a little input.

It's been a while since my wife and I purchased a new vehicle as we drive them for as long as we can. My wife is starting a new job and wants a new vehicle. She will be making a significant amount more than she did before so I'm willing to buy new this time just so she can get exactly what she wants and I know she will drive it for many years.

I'm sure it's different at all dealers but what can I expect when negotiating pricing on a new vehicle (or even used if they have what she wants). She is looking at Honda CRVs and you're looking at 33K or so brand new for the highest end.

Where would you expect them to have these marked up? Does cash talk?
We are in a position to do things how we want. I'm willing to walk right out the door if they don't want to deal so I'll probably have to make my wife go somewhere else.

Any tips are greatly appreciated as I really hate going to dealerships....
 
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sales men get paid on commission.......the more cars they sell durring a day, the more money they make.

what i do is devote an ENTIRE DAY to buy my car.......and i make sure i spend all day with the salesman......ask to see and drive different cars (even if i already know what i want)......just waste time....that way the only way the salesman makes money is if I actually buy a car that day, hes not going to put in all that effort to not make a sale.

then when you negotiate the price, be sure to get the "Best offer" in writting.....and straight up tell them " im going to take this to XXXXX dealer down the street, and i guarantee theyll beat it".........then LEAVE, actually get up and leave the dealership.

you will have a phone call within an hour from the dealership telling you theyll take a grand off.


ive used this technique on my last few cars and works every time.
 
Bought a new Honda last year. No one was willing to talk deep discounts on the model I was interested in, they said if I was willing to look at the Odyssey, they would deal. I guess it depends on what they're selling and what they're not. I paid with a check and toward the end of negations I mentioned it would be a 'cash' deal and asked if that could helpp get costs down a little more. They said they'd prefer I finance and the assholes ran a hard check on my credit before they'd even take the check.
 
1- Check Consumer's Reports for reliability etc. Make sure yore getting one well recomended.

2-Are you sure you want to go NEW? Check out Ebay motors. You can get much better deals if the car has few miles on it and someone needs to sell because they didnt do their homework. If a person really needs to sell you can really negotiate.

The last one I bought was an 05 MB, bought in 09 with 30K miles. Got it for $27,000. Dealer price on a new one was $55,000. Comparable used at the dealer was still $42,000 due to the low miles. So I got a nearly new vehicle for $15,00 less than dealer. Just check the reviews/feedback of the person selling it.

3-If you choose to go new, listen to the advice above. Car salesmen are roughly comparable to slime. NOt all of them but most. One thing Id add is as soon as you walk in they will want tons of personal info. DONT GIVE T TO THEM. If you dont buy they will hound you and it gives you a control point by refusing.
 
I bought a new 17 Mustang this past spring.

I totally agree with walking away from the table. I had a number we were working on. I wasn't happy so I walked out. Salesman walked out after me and suddenly had a better number.

Then to make it even funnier, that salesman told me it had satellite radio when it did not. THEN they actually asked me to go half on it. Livid is an understatement. I walked away because a dealer across town had the exact same car (color options and everything) I explained to that dealer what had happened. They matched the price I was at, knocked off more since this one didn't have the SAT radio either, AND had a better extended warranty package.

Do some research on what's available in your area. Honda's are more like Toyota's in that the demand seems higher do I wouldn't expect a lot of play on the numbers but they'll deal.

One other game I've seen them play. They'll bring out a sheet showing you're buying UNDER invoice. (If that's the case, how do they make money?). Incentives based off number of vehicles sold rather than individual sales. That way they can say "you're buying UNDER invoice. See how good this deal is!"

Good luck and happy driving!
 
I'm not a dealer, but found a way that worked for me when I bought my first all new truck in 2009. Previously, I bought off-lease with only one other new car. That car deal was a freakin' nightmare of many hours of hard sell tactics by the dealer and I still didn't end up with the deal I should have received.

First, do your research online and really find out what the normal asking prices are for the car you want. Then start a car buying inquiry online and limit your inquiry to dealerships within the area that you are willing to travel for the deal. No trade in, no fancy color (unless your wife has her heart set on a specific color. This will limit your negotiating ability). You will get all kinds of responses, many of them fishing for you to come down to their lot and test drive what they have. Respond to all inquiries with a basic canned response, telling them exactly what you are looking for, that you do not need to test drive a vehicle as you expect that it will drive and act just like a new vehicle should. Give them a date when you will make your decision and be sure to specify that any price quoted is an out-the-door price that includes all taxes, fees and transfer costs. Tell them that the best offer by that date will get your business.

Your responses will be less the second time around. If they call you, and they will, repeat the same story and stick with it. Usually, the options will quickly weed down to two or three dealers who actually have what you want and are willing to negotiate by email. Keep all offers in email (in writing). Verbal offers over the phone are worth nothing without email verification. You have to stay in charge of your purchase, which means not getting tied to one place. It's easier to negotiate if you know exactly what you want and you are not captive there at the physical dealer location. Decide what options you can do without if a really good offer comes up that isn't exactly what you specified. Resist going to a dealer until you have made your decision and are ready to sign the papers for the deal.

Know that it is often possible to get a better deal when shopping close to the end of the month, as many if not all dealers have monthly sales incentives and the pressure is on at the end of the month.

Be willing to by last year's model if there is one still on the lot. There are factory incentives for slow moving cars that stay on the lot longer than a couple months. If you shop now, a 2017 model is actually last year's model already. Many 2018 model year vehicles are already being sold.

Be willing to buy one that was used at the dealer for 300-3000 miles. Those miles mean nothing and are sometimes worth $5,000-10,000 off the list price.

If you do have a trade in, wait until you are already agreed on a price and are at the dealer to sign. That way, anything they offer for your trade-in will be additional $ off of your final price. When throwing the trade-in in the mix before agreeing on a price, there are all kinds of ways to muddy up the waters as to what you are actually paying for your vehicle.

Don't discuss that it will be a cash deal until the very end after you already have a price. A dealer wants your financing deal and cash doesn't necessarily help your negotiation.

Using these tactics made for the least stressful car deal I've ever done and I ended up saving almost $15,000 off of list for my truck, in addition to the fact that I got extras that I didn't specify up front. In may case, it was the end of September 2009 and I bought a 2009 truck that had been in the lot for way to long because the interior was a champagne color. This made for $6,000 of factory incentives that the dealer passed on to me to close the deal. I bought high quality $600 seat covers in the color I wanted the same week.
 
Use TruCar or Edmunds to figure out what people are actually paying. It will give you a bell curve. Figure out where you want to be on the curve and stick with it. Check for factory rebates online. Subtract rebates from point on the price curve. For every dealer logo on the vehicle, subtract $200 from price. Buying a vehicle that is currently on the lot usually doesn't save any money. My preference is to buy one that is already on order. Dealers like having a vehicle sold as soon as it hits the lot just as much as they like selling one that has been there a few months. If you can, try to shop at the end of the month/end of the year.

I would consider any vehicle with more than 7 miles used and would not let the dealership wash it before taking possession.
 
If you do have a trade in, wait until you are already agreed on a price and are at the dealer to sign. That way, anything they offer for your trade-in will be additional $ off of your final price. When throwing the trade-in in the mix before agreeing on a price, there are all kinds of ways to muddy up the waters as to what you are actually paying for your vehicle.

^^^Invaluable. Keep the 2 deals separate.

 
sales men get paid on commission.......the more cars they sell durring a day, the more money they make.

what i do is devote an ENTIRE DAY to buy my car.......and i make sure i spend all day with the salesman......ask to see and drive different cars (even if i already know what i want)......just waste time....that way the only way the salesman makes money is if I actually buy a car that day, hes not going to put in all that effort to not make a sale.

then when you negotiate the price, be sure to get the "Best offer" in writting.....and straight up tell them " im going to take this to XXXXX dealer down the street, and i guarantee theyll beat it".........then LEAVE, actually get up and leave the dealership.

you will have a phone call within an hour from the dealership telling you theyll take a grand off.


ive used this technique on my last few cars and works every time.

Damn you're cold. My Granpa used to do that even when he wasn't looking to buy a car. I don't know if he liked driving all the cars, or driving all the salesmen nuts. He always got a good price on new cars though.

Best way to get the best price, is buy 4 or 5 cars from them every couple years.
 
I'm not a dealer, but found a way that worked for me when I bought my first all new truck in 2009. Previously, I bought off-lease with only one other new car. That car deal was a freakin' nightmare of many hours of hard sell tactics by the dealer and I still didn't end up with the deal I should have received.

First, do your research online and really find out what the normal asking prices are for the car you want. Then start a car buying inquiry online and limit your inquiry to dealerships within the area that you are willing to travel for the deal. No trade in, no fancy color (unless your wife has her heart set on a specific color. This will limit your negotiating ability). You will get all kinds of responses, many of them fishing for you to come down to their lot and test drive what they have. Respond to all inquiries with a basic canned response, telling them exactly what you are looking for, that you do not need to test drive a vehicle as you expect that it will drive and act just like a new vehicle should. Give them a date when you will make your decision and be sure to specify that any price quoted is an out-the-door price that includes all taxes, fees and transfer costs. Tell them that the best offer by that date will get your business.

Your responses will be less the second time around. If they call you, and they will, repeat the same story and stick with it. Usually, the options will quickly weed down to two or three dealers who actually have what you want and are willing to negotiate by email. Keep all offers in email (in writing). Verbal offers over the phone are worth nothing without email verification. You have to stay in charge of your purchase, which means not getting tied to one place. It's easier to negotiate if you know exactly what you want and you are not captive there at the physical dealer location. Decide what options you can do without if a really good offer comes up that isn't exactly what you specified. Resist going to a dealer until you have made your decision and are ready to sign the papers for the deal.

Know that it is often possible to get a better deal when shopping close to the end of the month, as many if not all dealers have monthly sales incentives and the pressure is on at the end of the month.

Be willing to by last year's model if there is one still on the lot. There are factory incentives for slow moving cars that stay on the lot longer than a couple months. If you shop now, a 2017 model is actually last year's model already. Many 2018 model year vehicles are already being sold.

Be willing to buy one that was used at the dealer for 300-3000 miles. Those miles mean nothing and are sometimes worth $5,000-10,000 off the list price.

If you do have a trade in, wait until you are already agreed on a price and are at the dealer to sign. That way, anything they offer for your trade-in will be additional $ off of your final price. When throwing the trade-in in the mix before agreeing on a price, there are all kinds of ways to muddy up the waters as to what you are actually paying for your vehicle.

Don't discuss that it will be a cash deal until the very end after you already have a price. A dealer wants your financing deal and cash doesn't necessarily help your negotiation.

Using these tactics made for the least stressful car deal I've ever done and I ended up saving almost $15,000 off of list for my truck, in addition to the fact that I got extras that I didn't specify up front. In may case, it was the end of September 2009 and I bought a 2009 truck that had been in the lot for way to long because the interior was a champagne color. This made for $6,000 of factory incentives that the dealer passed on to me to close the deal. I bought high quality $600 seat covers in the color I wanted the same week.

+1.

What I've personally done to buy my vehicle, is to show Internet price for the model I wanted, to the sales dude from the dealership, then offer to buy at this price as the only option I will agree to. No BS talk, just yes or no. No negotiations, nothing to discuss... Typically, Internet price is $2K-$3K less than at the dealership. It worked.
 
I use a "creampuff dealership." Always used, never new, nothing on the lot more than 4 years old or 40K miles, generally speaking, and I don't zero in on specific models or colors. I look for deals in a given niche, or genre, and do a hard KBB comparison, as well as a review search, while I have it out to test. I get COO info, like insurance and GAP, as well, so I have a good idea of the actual price before looking at the Carfax. The Internet is invaluable, and smart phones are a godsend. So far, so good, and no major headaches yet.
 
I am not a very good negotiator. I want what i want. I am never happy if i settle for a color or option that i did or did not want. One is sun/moon roofs. I hate them with a passion. I don't see it as money saved if it is not what I want. I tend to keep my vehicles a long long time. If i can find what i want slightly used i am okay with that. If not i order new.

Did that in December 2001 for my f350, manual trans, manual transfer case, no carpert. Everyone laughed at me but i get offers to buy the truck weekly that approach. 65% of what i paid in February 2002.

Last year i replaced a car i purchased in 1995 (1993 model) Daughter wreaked it or I would still have it.
That car ended up costing just about $102 a month with gas, maintenance, insurance over the 21 years i owned it.

I don't mind a deal but when i am shopping for a 6.5CM I dont give .308s even a first look.
 
Toyota quality isn't what it once was. They have dropped a notch or 2 in then last 10nyears. Still well made. Ford quality has went up leaps and bounds in last 10 years. GM still sucks and probably always will.

Honda cars are not very stylish in my opinion which is fine. Thry focus on quality and that is about it.

I said for years that when the "jap's" capacity reached that of GM/Ford you would see some quality issues and that has been proven with Toyota getting into the top 3.

Honda doesn't have the capacity to manufacture that many vehicles a year.

Personally being a mechanic and seeing everything for the current vehicles going back 3 years or so i would put Honda at the top. Toyota/Ford tied for 2nd and everything else basicly trash. That is for sedans(cars)

Suv's and especially Trucks are different.
 
I can talk more to the vehicle type, and what seems to come with that, than I can to general car buying. I own a crv that I bought new a few years ago, and the thing I remember being surprised by at first, was how little a price break you seemed to get by going for a used CRV. I love mine, and the large number of folks I know who have them, all love theirs too. Sadly, the dealerships know this, and treat used almost like new, so don't expect them to just offer a vastly lower used price (that said, if you can get a used one for any less, go for that. It'll still be a great car). I managed most of the price dropping on mine by getting the list of "extras" and going down it with a pen, going "don't care, don't care, don't care". And making clear what I didn't feel was worth paying for as an "extra". That all came off the price.

That said, I was also in NO hurry to buy the car. I actually went back to a few places, a few months apart, and waited for the best price when they were trying to offload new 14's they still had, because they were starting to get 15's in.

That's my experience with buying a crv.
 
What worked well for me on my past two cars.

Figure out exactly what model and trim level you want. Use Edmunds or Kelly Blue Book to send an email inquiry to all dealerships you are willing to drive to. The more you select the better your odds. I drove 60 miles for my last car but saved several thousand. Both sites give you a list of dealerships that you can select and send an email to. The email should state that you are looking to purchase X model with Y trim level within the next 2 weeks and ask which colors they have and what the prices are. It's a pain and everyone wants to call but I've managed to keep all negotiations on email and been able to get very good deals. Just keep in mind that they probably get tons of emails that don't materialize so set yourself apart by responding promptly and being courteous.

As an aside, I found that the "fair purchase price" on Kelly Blue Book was pretty representative of an "average" deal you could get if you walked in and negotiated "moderately" with a dealership. Use that to gauge where to start and watch the price move throughout the season and year. When you use the email method you spread your footprint and increase the likelihood of finding a motivated seller and therefore can do significantly better.

Oh, and I enjoy negotiating, talking about cars, checking out different models, understanding their value and speaking with different sales people. My wife on the other hand sees a car and falls in love... Needless to say, I leave her at home when I want to find a good deal.

Good luck!
 
Primer on Buying a Car (New or Used)

Couple points as at one time I was on the dark side selling cars and trucks for several major dealers at a low point in my life. They wanted to make me management so they taught me the tricks of the trade.

1. Dealers pay actual invoice for the vehicle each and every time. But that is not how much it might actually cost them in the end so knowing dealer invoice pricing does not mean it helps you. So just offering $500 over invoice might be the sucker deal of the month. There could be thousands of behind the scenes money left on the table.

2. Manufacturers track 60 and 120 day inventory in the field of every model monthly and adjust monthly what is called "holdback". They send every new car dealer a holdback sheet monthly with the new figures. Think of it as a rebate to the dealer when he sells that vehicle and sends the paperwork to the manufacturer. That is how you see dealers selling below invoice and still making money. You really think they are selling that vehicle for a loss? That is also why you see certain models advertised certain months by all dealers. They are getting big holdback to push that model out fast.

3. Holdback is always highest at end of model year, especially before a major body/motor change. They want to push out the old model before the new one is on the lot.

4. Very few ways to find what actual holdback is, but I have seen it as has as $7000 or more at end of model year on ford pickups for example. Typical is $800-1800 for lower end and up to $2500-4000 for higher end vehicles but that will fluctuate monthly depending on what the manufacturers want the dealers to push. End of model years, those numbers can vary greatly. New body style change coming out and that number will go way up. You can use a CU or True Value buying service to get a ballpark price of what that vehicle is available for sale at. Remember, the dealer pays the CU or buying service normally $500 if they refer you to them. You can use that as a bargaining chip in final price.

5. All dealerships run on numbers regardless of what they tell you. They all set a quota monthly to hit. Every morning sales meeting starts with the weekly and monthly numbers count for the dealership and each salesman. First half the month, the sales manager works on maximizing his profit per vehicle. Last half he is looking at hitting his target sales number. He is paid % commission on hitting numbers, so he actually can let a vehicle go for no profit, hit his number or a higher quota number and increase his overall sales commission big time by selling those last few vehicles. The dealership is only tracking number of vehicles sold and average profit per vehicle. Salesman might not be on commission, but guarantee that the sales manager is on commission, and more numbers the higher his % overall.

Best days to buy a new or used are the last three days of the month to buy, that manager is working hard to hit is number and not worrying about profit. Salesmen are working hard to hit their numbers also. This is key. However, some dealers have become wise to people knowing this and adjust their sales months to the 15[SUP]th[/SUP] of each month. Find out when your dealers sales month ends. Just ask the salesman.

6. The secret is to know their game is "what is your payment"! I cannot emphasize that enough. How can they get you into a car at that payment, even if it means they move you down to a cheaper car. They want to know if a trade is involved upfront as that allows them to sandbag $2-4K profit almost everytime. Do not play that game! Walk in state you are not a payment buyer, you have pre-approved % interest and not interested in a trade. You have thrown them off their plan and into your plan. You must stick to it and not fall for them to push you back into the payment game as they most certainly will try.

7. NEVER talk trade until a price is agreed upon, and THEN throw a trade in if you plan on trading. He is only going to give you "Blackbook" value no matter what anyway. That is relatively easy to find thru bank or CU or just stop at a lot and ask. Always better to sell yours outright anyway unless you do not want to go thru the hassle. Blackbook is the weekly book of what that car/truck sells for at the local auctions. ALL dealers subscribe to it and use it religiously as it is their Bible. They might tell you they use Kelly’s Blue Book or something else, but that is BS. Blackbook value is what they call "real money", or exactly what they car is worth and they can buy/sell it for at the auctions. Think about it, why is a dealer going to give you more "real money" for a vehicle than he can buy it for. If he knows you have a trade upfront he suckers deals the value of the trade often ending up making an extra $1-2K over no trade. They love you telling them up front you have a trade. Now later they act mad that you threw it in at the last moment AFTER you got an agreed price and they lost that extra money. They will try to lowball the value by not giving you all the credit for the adds in the book. You must KNOW what your trade is worth before and then tell them that. Ask them to show you in the Blackbook.

8. If you are financing, go in with firm % financing approved or known. They get you to agree on "Payment" that has added warranty, and other goodies rolled in and finish the sale in the Finance and Insurance (F&I) office, where the real money is made. Know your FICA rating, tell the salesman/manager you have what level credit you have and NOT to add anything to the payment except principle and interest and tax even IF you are making payments. Their job is to put you into the highest interest (not the lowest) loan, loaded with all the extras at your agreed payment or even a few dollars more. Focus on final price, not payments until then. It is pretty easy for you to know what your payment window is and then back figure what total price that equals out to. Keep that total price figure in mind.

9. Even then, the first time he little sheet the salesman brings back to you will only show payment and not what all is rolled into that price. They are trying to put you into their plan on payments which will include, warranty, life insurance and all the extras included. They want you to agree to the payment price with that included so you buy it in the Finance and Insurance office. Do not fall for it. He will act ignorant of the interest also. The sales manager will always try to use the HIGHEST interest he can to a payment buyer. If it does, take a quick look, tell the salesman that is not what you wanted, do not discuss, tell him to take back and have final price put on it and ask what % they are using. DO NOT discuss payment until final price is agreed upon. You should have idea what your payment will be BEFORE walk in if you have done your homework.

10. Here is where the dealership makes the real money. The F&I office farms your credit app to 30-40 places, selects the HIGHEST not LOWEST interest that gets you to the "agreed payment" and makes more money selling a higher interest loan than lower ones. The manufactures now often give you 0% financing and that is hard to beat. If buying a used, get an approved rate ahead of time you can get them to give you a lower rate IF you want to finance with them. They will sell you scotchguard, extended warranties etc that are marked up 2-3x. You can negotiate at least 50% off if you want one quite easy. They want to sell you on them and will take a lesser profit versus zero. The F& I guys are the highest paid people at the dealership and they make more money for the dealership than the sales dept.

11. IF you are a payment buyer, and just a few dollars off your target payment, tell the F&I manager to pull out a "% off coupon" out of his desk to help you hit your payment. Trust me they have them. Lenders give them to the dealers for putting so many loans to them or as an incentive to send loans to them. Loan managers at banks etc, have monthly goals too. They get coupons for 1/4-1/2% off a loan from lenders as incentives in cases like this. They rat hole them for circumstances to make the deal go thru and will never admit they have them unless forced to.

12. If a buying service is offered by your credit union, bank, USAA, or even Trucar etc, get a price from them. I have told a manager he has to beat that price for me to NOT use the buying service. The dealer pays the buying service a fee, (usually minimum $500) so he just cuts it and gives it to you in a lower price.

13. In buying used cars, you need to know that the real trade in value was of the car you are looking at. You can go to a local small car dealer and ask him to give you the Blackbook trade in with all the adds (leather, sunroof, electric seats, trim package etc) and deductions for manual trans, high miles also. Figure average profit for a used car is $1500 to maybe $2000 but I have seen $7500 because the owner did negotiated from MSRP and told them he had a trade up front. There is a base price for each model, trim level and a whole list of adds and minuses you need to look at to get the correct value. A yearly subscription costs about $70 and you get a book each week for you locality.

14. You need to do your homework before you look for a vehicle. Call sales manager tell him what you are looking for, no time to BS, you want his best price. Tell him you are not a payment buyer even if you are. That takes them out of the payment game, which is what they want. You can easily figure your payment with online calculators or your bank can tell you that it will be X$ per 100 financed. Now most large big dealers have an "internet salesman" who handles all internet inquiries. That person is normally the best salesperson and wants to get you in there to deal. Get him to agree to a sales figure BEFORE you come in. They will try to forget they did that too.

All large and major dealerships work this way. The local lot dealer might vary a lot at times.

Yes, some here will disagree with what I said and the sales manager loved to see them walking thru the door as they always had a big lollipop stick hanging out of their rear end.

two examples.

New car MSRP $32,000 trade car worth $6000 Black book. You tell them no trade and argue for best price $28,000 then throw trade in for BB value of $6000 for difference of $22,000. they will try to lowball the BB value but if you know it before hand they will come up to it.

New car MSRP $32,000 trade car worth $6000 Black book. They tell them you have a trade up front and they come back with $32,000 sticker price and trade value of $4500. You end up arguing on the trade and finally get them to $6000. You end up paying $26000 and they dealer just made an extra $4000 by you telling them you had a trade.
 
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Thanks everyone for the information.

She did add the Nissan Rogue so it will be between the 2. Where she wants to go has each with exactly what she wants.

Unfortunately she will be very specific on what she wants and wants to leave with a new car today.... When she wants something she wants it yesterday which will ultimately hurt my dealings but maybe since there are 2 vehicles involved and separate Honda and Nissan sides maybe that can help.

I've taken all the info I've read and have done a bunch of research. I told her I'm not walking in there and bending over.

We will see how this goes this afternoon.
 
First of if you have a Costco and you're a member get a quote through them first. If not, go through the internet sales team at a dealership. They are normally the same as fleet sales. I purchase all of my cars this way. I send an email asking for a quote on a specific vehicle with the options I want. I'll do that to 3 or 4 dealers. I have built a relationship with one dealer in particular, just happens to be the Costco Ford dealer in my area, this dealer is always $600 less than others. The base price always starts out $100 below invoice. The last car I purchase MSRP was $50,115.00 and I paid $46,493.71 before Tax, Tags and Title. Also, I will never go into a dealer again and sit there for hours as they try to break you down, F that. Buying cars the way I do, means 15 minutes of paper work and I am out the door. I have paid cash or financed vehicles and it always takes the same amount of time to do the paper work.