California fires

[ArmyJerry]

You are telling me all these houses are in federally controlled forests?

This fire guy should be fired for not doing their main job between fires, its called prevention. This is not a natural disaster its a recurring insurance job, trying to milk the US to keep their ponzi scheme going out there.

The guy goes on ""The president’s message attacking California and threatening to withhold aid to the victims of the cataclysmic fires is Ill-informed, ill-timed and demeaning to those who are suffering as well as the men and women on the front lines. "

You guys think the other states should pay for a fires in your state like its an entitlement and I am telling you its not even constitutional, not even for floods or actual natural disasters, yet here you Cali people are thinking the federal government (meaning the other 49 states) owes you a bail out for a largely self inflicted preventable annual fire. I am telling you that you are are severely mistaken.

You all are misjudging how what you all refer to as "rednecks" view Cali, our national bonds are not what you might think they are anymore, you've looked down your noses too long, you broke the chains that bound us together. Its over

Trumps tweet did not bring me to my conclusions, my experience doing business in that shithole and travelling that once beautiful state has.

 

[DOA]

The tree huggers and their extreme environmental management ideas are to blame for the vast spreading of fires like this. They are sooo consumed with keeping mankind out of their sacred forests that they don't allow fire breaks to be constructed, nor any prescribed burning of underbrush. Their backwards thinking is destroying way more trees than they even dreamed of protecting.

I say no more federal aid due to poor decisions made at the local level

Yup. I live near one of the major fires. Brown would rather give money to the illegal wetbacks and blame the fires on global warning (hoax) rather than spend the money on land management. We can't even cut a fucking tree down near our homes without endless red tape and bureaucracy bullshit.

 

[softcock]

A buddy of mine sent me Pic. today . He doing fire control , flying UH60 down Cal. hills . Says the place is burning up .
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[Deleted member 10043]

We've got brothers living in occupied territories like California. I pray for them. As for the rest? I'm having a hard time being the shepherd.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Texas is sending 200 ff, no problem with this type of help i just dont want bailout $ going there to the entitled.

The "double wide living" from "redneck hoods" are on the way

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/G...evastating-California-Wildfire-500247002.html

 

[CypressJeff]

California's forest grow unchecked.

https://lhc.ca.gov/sites/lhc.ca.gov/files/Reports/242/Report242.pdf

 

[Diver160651]

California's forest grow unchecked.

https://lhc.ca.gov/sites/lhc.ca.gov/files/Reports/242/Report242.pdf

You are telling me all these houses are in federally controlled forests

Trumps tweet did not bring me to my conclusions, my experience doing business in that shithole and travelling that once beautiful state has.

No - I am not that is my point -- You sighted Trump who was miss informed.. Trump was talking about the Forests.

Ya, nobody here is disputing that the Nation Forests have been mismanaged. It has been a hot topic here in CA amongst us that hunt and run in the Alpine country for several decades - Plumas National Forest is east and at a higher altitude of where the Camp fire (named after the area NOT the cause).

Paradise the town now gone, was in the grass lands and scrub Oak foothills only about 2,000 feet high and a yes some pine trees. But it isn't the dense forest you guys keep talking about. This area is just east of highway 99, West of the forest on the fringe of cattle country and hot and dry as hell in the summer, but this summer has been exceptionally dry. BTW - Usually, Ski resorts try to open by next week and we've had no rain or measurable snow.

This was more like horse country than the images one might expect if they imagined the miss managed forests. I am not saying that it didn't have to many wooden structures with shake roofs or that it was not a tinder box..

Quotes like "you've looked down your noses too long" apparently go both ways... Elitism sucks no mater what side of the fence one is from.

Some of these posts makes us sound just like the people we do not like when we jump on the topic ill-informed and act like we know better or are better than the people who lost everything, some their lives.

 

[2ndamendfan]

This thread could use some tits. Very depressing up to this point.

 

[j-huskey]

Obama was the best gun sales president after Bill Clinton.

What's the fire sales president's legacy gonna be ?

 

[ArmyJerry]

Ammo

 

[2ndamendfan]

I think we can all agree these motherfuckers need to be shot. Few dead looters might put a stop to the problem.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/looters-...ed-of-impersonating-us-forest-service-workers

 

[Diver160651]

I think we can all agree these motherfuckers need to be shot. Few dead looters might put a stop to the problem.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/looters-...ed-of-impersonating-us-forest-service-workers

ya, but once again that article is wrong it isn't 64,000 homes.. I f'ng hate the news as nobody seems willing to check what they say or write..

but point taken.. if true they should be shot..

 

[2ndamendfan]

I am sure it is suppose to be either 640 destroyed or 64,000 evacuated. I get your point.

 

[Diver160651]

It still is big over 6,400 "structures" including barns, homes + business etc..

 

[QuickNDirty]

https://canadafreepress.com/article...d-bipartisan-wildfire-management-bill-in-2016

That dude is such an ass.

I've been to Cali a handful of times and, with the exception of the government there, and most of the people, it is a fantastic place. I'm truly sickened by the losses going on there, especially after watching a crazy XJ driver trying to be a hero (barely made it out), but at the end of the day... This problem is largely self inflicted. I regard it the same as suicide.

Sucks, but not something I'm going to shed a tear over.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Yea that is big. Still over 200 missing. I think death total will be huge.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Watch this, right at the end (57 sec mark) you will see vehicles with trails/pools of "liquid" flowing from them. Also notice they have no, radiators, a/c condensers or tranny coolers. The fire was hot enough to melt Aluminum. Heat exchangers are pretty thin so they would melt first. Melting point is twice that of Lead, 1220*
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peo...-town-wiped-off-map-after-wildfire/vi-BBPBze5

 

[Waorani]

Watch this, right at the end (57 sec mark) you will see vehicles with trails/pools of "liquid" flowing from them. Also notice they have no, radiators, a/c condensers or tranny coolers. The fire was hot enough to melt Aluminum. Heat exchangers are pretty thin so they would melt first. Melting point is twice that of Lead, 1220*
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peo...-town-wiped-off-map-after-wildfire/vi-BBPBze5

Smokey the Bear seemed to have made it through ok. Ironic!

 

[Diver160651]

https://canadafreepress.com/article...d-bipartisan-wildfire-management-bill-in-2016

That dude is such an ass.

I've been to Cali a handful of times and, with the exception of the government there, and most of the people, it is a fantastic place. I'm truly sickened by the losses going on there, especially after watching a crazy XJ driver trying to be a hero (barely made it out), but at the end of the day... This problem is largely self inflicted. I regard it the same as suicide.

Sucks, but not something I'm going to shed a tear over.

Yes, Brown and 8 years with Jerry Brown & Gavin Newsum (the guy that really let SF's homeless run out of control) has been the #2 guy for those 8 years and now Governor.. I get it.. believe me ~ it sucks.. We haven't begun to see the worst of these clowns.. wait until Gavin sits in the main chair in a couple of months.. Yep he is the same one related thru his former marriage to famed gun grabber Nancy Pelosi

But it might be worth your time to know that few of those people who are in that area, the same area with "don't tread on me" flags and road side banners, the people that have been promoting the Jefferson State, voted for those two clowns..

 

[QuickNDirty]

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[101stinfantry]

Seems like California has been on fire for the last 10 years, I'm really surprised that there is anything left to burn. Next will be mud slides. Why does anyone let the undergrowth/brush grow up that close to their damn house anyway?

 

[Diver160651]

Smokey the Bear seemed to have made it through ok. Ironic!

Ya, so did a lot of the trees.

 

[Foul Mike]

I would agree with ill-timed.
I think the fires are horrible beyond my comprehension.
Politics out, I Pray for all involved. FM

 

[Threadcutter308]

Great.......You couldn't have tried and successfully found a less appropriate time for like minded infighting.

Any of you happen to notice the outright thievery going on in the AZ, FL and now GA elections ?

Stop fucking fighting amongst yourselves, we need to be together, acting as one and fighting the real enemy. It ain't us, get that through your thick skulls.

The liberals ("communists", for those of you who will take umbrage with my otherwise "polite" description) have this down to an art form. What do we do ? Resort to fighting amongst ourselves. Knock it the fuck off, you're just playing into their hands.

 

[ArmyJerry]

I gotta say I think these fires are intentionally started. Not by the locals in this case either. That's the assertion of the l.p. also

 

[Diver160651]

I gotta say I think these fires are intentionally started.

While it would not surprise me.. When the wind gusts and blows up 80km, anything from a BBQ to old embers from the night before are a bomb.. local power lines (not the big towers) in the high winds are at the top of the list.

During some crazy high winds last year, driving thru the grass land area near the sac river, it looked like a 747 did nosedive or the like. Little fires were burning everywhere there was a barbed wire fence, cyclone fence etc..anything that created an eddy or trapped debris became the home for a new fire... it was an unreal scene.. ..

BTW just another stupid fact, but an important one, super heavy smoke can stall a vehicle... just like it chokes us out

 

[MarinePMI]

How did this happen? Easy. The fucks in Sacramento spent $300M subsidizing electric vehicles for all the wealthy hipster city dwellers, and spent $30M on forest management. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the final outcome to that sort of thinking...

 

[2ndamendfan]

While it would not surprise me.. When the wind gusts and blows up 80km, anything from a BBQ to old embers from the night before are a bomb.. local power lines (not the big towers) in the high winds are at the top of the list.

During some crazy high winds last year, driving thru the grass land area near the sac river, it looked like a 747 did nosedive or the like. Little fires were burning everywhere there was a barbed wire fence, cyclone fence etc..anything that created an eddy or trapped debris became the home for a new fire... it was an unreal scene.. ..

BTW just another stupid fact, but an important one, super heavy smoke can stall a vehicle... just like it chokes us out

About the same as natural gas leaks after an earthquake. People that don't understand 50mph winds with no rain and 15% humidity just don't understand how volatile the situation is. Winds can carry and keep an ember alive for miles.

I disagree with a bunch said here, but I do agree the forests are being mismanaged. The tree huggers want it to be natural. Should have learned in the 80's when Yellow Stone almost burnt to the ground that does not work. Those fires were caused by lighting.
These fires are related to man. Camp fire was supposedly started from a camp fire (homeless or hunter really doesn't matter at this point). If we didn't have people/property in the way letting it burn wouldn't be an issue. Here in Utah that happens from time to time.
Just like everything the government does, spend $100,000,000 now to prevent or $3,500,000,000 to repair. No one ever listens to chicken little. The sky does in fact fall from time to time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_fires_of_1988



https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/02/booming/lessons-from-the-yellowstone-fires-of-1988.html

 

[Waorani]

Even where there is fire management they have to contend with the public bitching about smoke, or the wind shifting and smoking out an interstate causing a pileup, etc, etc. It also doesn't help that the general public perception is that National Forests are National Parks and timber harvest, fuel reduction, etc are often stymied by law suits from wacko environmental groups.

 

[Blutroop]

I have a few things I fell compelled to point out. While I am sympathetic to anyone that has lost most.. I’ve lost most a few times myself) Californians wanna claim they are on the front line.. the front line actually starts at the east border of comifornia. Oregon and Washington are occupied territory too.. anyone in occupied territory has had plenty of time to leave or Excape to friendly territory. Survive, evade, resist, Escape. As far as the forests go, here we burn wood for warmth and energy. We have a lot less fires near populated areas. Commifornians wanna come up here and get upset because we drive on our beach? Line up, harness up, pull all my carts full of my salmon, my fishing nets, my firewood, any seal or bear we legally get, and my camping gear, and I will have a lot less need to drive on the beach.. when I was there in the 90’s and saw bums in tourist areas too lazy to get out of their sleeping bags to go piss, feces on the sidewalks, and pay toilets.. I knew Cali was doomed.

 

[Nik H]

Flew into LA today....smoke reminds me of being in Shanghai...

As much as I don't like it here, I wouldn't wish the fire on anyone. It is bearing down on Malibu now which is some of the nicest beach I have ever seen

 

[ArmyJerry]

Malibu is nice, hope they put it out, hope they join in redneck navy style.

 

[Diver160651]

FYI remember the #2 post in this thread Friday afternoon?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...7208a8-e6e8-11e8-8449-1ff263609a31_story.html

 

[hic28]

FYI remember the #2 post in this thread Friday afternoon?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...7208a8-e6e8-11e8-8449-1ff263609a31_story.html

That’s the same thing that started the fires in Santa Rosa that wiped out entire neighborhoods.

 

[Diver160651]

That’s the same thing that started the fires in Santa Rosa that wiped out entire neighborhoods.

Crazy- high winds not the homeless Californians (as you know many if not most come from other states) seem to once again be the issue.

San Bruno where all those houses blew up, was also PG&E — but that was a gas line.. I could see the flames from my house.

PG&E like what you guys have down South, is investor owned not a State run organization. Talk now seems to look like they might, in the future be to shutting down power to entire sectors when high winds in dry areas look to be a threat.

Either way, we the people end up paying the settlements through increases rates and others loose lives and property. Bummer all the way around.

If they still need help with livestock as the week closes, I might drive up and help for a few days.

 

[hic28]

In Redding this summer, pG&E sent letters saying they were going to shut off power if the temp was over 105* (or something close). I think I threw mine away otherwise I’d post the letter.

For those that don’t know, Redding regularly sees 115* in July/August/September. So shutting off power can seriously affect the elderly as well as destroy entire refrigerators full of food along with a bunch of other problems.

It would probably be cheaper in the long run for them to run power under ground than pay for the damage caused from winds fucking up their above ground transmission lines

 

[Blutroop]

If y’all insist in staying in that unconstitutional state you definitely need to get a battery bank and some solar panels put in. That’s b.s. Could be worse though, up here with The local power monopoly it would cost 18,000 to bring power 275” from a underground line up a gravel road to my property at the end of a culdesac. I paid 3,500 for the lot.. 18,000 can buy a lot of diesel and batteries

 

[ArmyJerry]

A lot of states with high wind problems and Ice on line problems are moving them underground. Pay now or pay later... why didnt they shut the power off to the sparky area?

 

[MarinePMI]

Because then they would lose money and people would bitch. A lot of people here never think beyond their own little bubble or crisis. They should have moved the lines underground years ago.

Next thing you know, someone will want to sue the power company over the fires, which then fucks everyone as they jack up the prices to cover the lawsuit damages. They need to de-regulate the utilities and allow competition, but that ship has sailed...

 

[pmclaine]

pulled this from a post in another place, might be onto something



Does aaaaaanyone else find it just a LITTLE suspicious that “nature” decided to burn 20+ diff places at once in CA, and only within the borders of the Democratic stronghold in the country, the day after a very suspicious shooting (that immediately called for gun control ? Surprise surprise), three days after an election (that brought no blue waves btw), destroying thousands of homes- many of which elite pedophiles reside in- destroying evidence since they’re all hanging on by a thread here as their underground child sex rings are slowly being exposed one by one, oh and voter fraud is being exposed as well...


View attachment 6968794

Im in agreement.

Between ISIS, enviro radicals (we must destroy the forest to save it) and other malcontent anarchists its a shit ton of bang for little investment.

Japan spent a lot of thought trying to set the western forests on fire for strategic reasons.

This likely could be an attack of sorts only made more damaging by Californias mismanaging resources in the name of environmental protection.

Japan would have been very well served if there balloon bombs had been this successful. Look at the amount of resources - fire fighters, expendable equipment, housing, natural resources and sadly now lives - this is costing.

Bill Ayres felt he had to kill 25 million Americans to bring about socialism, whats some forest, housing and mass expenditures of capital added to that tally?

Cloward and Piven tactics in play when you no longer have the levers of power.

As if California can afford to fight these fires in its already broke state.

 

[FS1]

Cali wants to leave their forests natural. Well when you do that, fire becomes natural. Now they go home and live in the Natural ashes. Even though the people are responsible for their Govt when Govt lies for their own benefit they become responsible. The Blood is on their hands. Although no one will ever pay the price for it.

Even if the people of Cali wake up it will likely mean nothing. Because those in power count the Votes. We are in a bad dangerous place.

 

[Waorani]

No different than building on Atlantic/Gulf coasts. Eventually you ARE going to get hit by a hurricane. Build in high fire risk areas, you ARE eventually going to get burned.

 

[oneshot86]

the problem w building on the barrier islands was and is the insurance cos fault...
before only the wealthy that could afford the loss would build there, when the insurance companys started issuing insurance policys the beach barrier island building boom hit.
now when a storm comes, all us land lubbers pay for their gamble
pay for their beach renurishments
pay for taller bridges so the wealthy can ride in their stupid fucking tall masted sailboats

Seems like California has been on fire for the last 10 years, I'm really surprised that there is anything left to burn. Next will be mud slides. Why does anyone let the undergrowth/brush grow up that close to their damn house anyway?

people are their own worst enemy, fucking stupid. we had 30 acres of pine trees. one 4th of july i heard a bunch of fireworks by the south east corner.
i drove on the hard road over and the fucking numb nutts who built his house next door to us was, by the time i got there, was shooting roman candles into my pine trees, yep, you read that shit right.
im not a cop caller but he got it that time, i wanted a trail of paper on that one, you know damn straight if he caught that shit on fire and burned neighboring houses down, he wouldnt have fessed up

people are fucked up stupid

 

[Waorani]

the problem w building on the barrier islands was and is the insurance cos fault...
before only the wealthy that could afford the loss would build there, when the insurance companys started issuing insurance policys the beach barrier island building boom hit.
now when a storm comes, all us land lubbers pay for their gamble
pay for their beach renurishments
pay for taller bridges so the wealthy can ride in their stupid fucking tall masted sailboats

people are their own worst enemy, fucking stupid. we had 30 acres of pine trees. one 4th of july i heard a bunch of fireworks by the south east corner.
i drove on the hard road over and the fucking numb nutts who built his house next door to us was, by the time i got there, was shooting roman candles into my pine trees, yep, you read that shit right.
im not a cop caller but he got it that time, i wanted a trail of paper on that one, you know damn straight if he caught that shit on fire and burned neighboring houses down, he wouldnt have fessed up
people are fucked up stupid

All that beach renourishment shit is fucked up too - particularly barrier islands. Barrier islands migrate over time due to longshore currents and storm events. The beaches will always be there, just maybe not where they were before. Only when you build a house where it shouldn't have been built in the first place does it become necessary to maintain the beach.

I continually wonder how most people manage to tie their shoes and feed themselves in the morning.

 

[Mwalex]

If you leave a forest "natural" then Mother Nature will manage those resources. I remember when managing the national forests in CA was the main news topic years ago and the comment was made repeatedly that not doing periodic clearing would lead the huge fires. Of course no one listed as liberal are the experts on EVERYTHING.

I feel badly for the folks in the area that is burning and I would not wish that on anyone. That being said, if you read the Bible, the Earth will be purged by fire.

 

[Diver160651]

Not a lot of value here; but maybe when your drinking a beer and talking about how screwed up CA is, at least you'll have better context on who is really f'g the fuel load and not put foot in mouth. Yep, Nation Parks and Nation Forests are mismanaged, I agree.

Well just so that everyone is on the same page here are a couple of maps to go along with the discussion. Pay attention to the map at the bottom to see just how much Federal control there is.. It is nuts.. Well - for sure California might do worse if it had sole control.. but that's another topic.

The first map is a vegetation map, followed my a Nation Forest and Park Map - The main differences is what we can "do" in the Federal Forests -- AKA hunt open camp. permit log etc.. Just about all the "big trees" are Federal, except the Coastal Redwoods where we have tons of California Parks.. Historically, the Northern Coastal Redwoods get the most foggy air and we see less fires.

The light green are the "Forested" but the Dark green, think Oaks and horse type county, much lower elevation.
The Brown is our bread bowl, Central Valley type Ag and some ranching.
The Malibu Fires in in more the fast growing Chaparral and grassy areas.

The map below shows the National Forests and Parks --

 

[MarinePMI]

Diver, I get your point, but the Malibu fire isn't anywhere near National Forest land. All the destruction of homes and properties are largely outside the NF, so it's the CA State government that is dropping the ball IMHO.

 

[Diver160651]

Diver, I get your point, but the Malibu fire isn't anywhere near National Forest land. All the destruction of homes and properties are largely outside the NF, so it's the CA State government that is dropping the ball IMHO.

We are making the same point.. The fire up north where my Grandfather had his horse property, is grass lands, scrub oak and pines.. The grasses and scrub burned and making grenades in the high winds.. landing against structures -- basic same thing with the dry offshore winds down South.

I've been trying to point out that the argument that THESE two fires are in anyway related to what people keep coming back to.. Miss-management of "Forests" is not accurate.

 

[MarinePMI]

Ahhh.... I see. Yes, we're in "violent agreement".

When I refer to "Forest Management" I refer to the State management of the forest/brush around the NF. And Cali political figures have done jack shit to manage that....

 

[Mike_Honcho]

I do not have a lot of time to explain all of this so here is a quick summary:

- Go to page one of the thread and look at AJ’s post with the Trump tweet and the questions posed by Q - RE how much money does CA spend on fuels reduction vs Sanctuary (and other handouts for votes). Additionally, look into how funding from the Fed Gov works when delivered to the States, specifically what I am saying is - what Fed money is silo’d for a specific purpose vs what can be slopped into the general fund.

- Look into the recent legislation signed by Gov Brown that stems from 2017 fires in Nappa and in favor of PG&E (PG&E Bailout Bill)

- Understand that the San Jose Mercury News has been doing an outstanding job of reporting that both the Nor Cal and So Cal fires from last week were likely caused by PG&E

- Lastly - begin to see this as one big plan. Read the PG&E Bailout - the costs are shifted to the rate payer, additional funding also comes from the Greenhouse Gas Tax fund. So in essence a problem that was purposely created by the state and private industry is going to be solved by the state and the citizen is going to pay for it in Fed Taxes, State Taxes, Greenhouse Tax, Power Rates.

You need to understand this is the same fuckin they gave Oregon when they killed the timber biz with junk science surrounding the spotted owl - they knew it was junk science mid way through, and now readily admit it was wholly incorrect.

This is a money and power grab.