Can a 2011 be modified to be field reliable?

[FatBoy]

With the recent explosion of 2011 pistols, I am curious if there is a strategy of making these pistols field reliable while maintaining decent accuracy? These seems to run on the ragged edge of spring strength for cycling, the 1911 style trigger seems to be a failure point for grit/silt preventing reset and the mags don’t seem to tolerate anything that would slow the stack from moving, causing no loads or failures to go into battery.

These pistols are awesome on the flat range, but has anyone developed one to be field reliable? Or a protocol for making them field reliable?

 

[FWoo45]

Tons of people have. They cost considerably more than the entry level 2011s.

 

[msstate56]

Staccatos are used by many agencies and individuals officers all over the country. They work out of the box. Just keep the oil on it. I’ve carried one all over Montana in a chest rig while riding in a side X side. Dusty as can be, but still shot several grouse.

 

[st1650]

Ben Stoeger has been testing a Stacc XC for 2000 rounds of duty ammo without cleaning and the only change was a 11-12lbs recoil spring instead of the factory 7-8lbs

The 2011s have significantly improved over the last 10 years. They’ll never be as dummy proof as a factory Glock but keep them wet with oil and they should be reliable.

 

[mmlook]

2011's are used in competition because they are reliable
- Glocks, Sigs, M&P's, and CZ's have just as many problems when you try to run them like a competition 2011

if you set them up like a factory gun, they'll run just as well as anything else

 

[FatBoy]

I ordered a recoil Atlas spring set as well as a heavier main and firing pin spring. My Prodigy runs well. Maybe one failure in the feed ramp every 350-400 rounds. None since replacing the mag springs, which were all twisted for some reason.

The matches we run will have the pistol under water several times. Dirty, nasty swamp water. Crawling up silty creeks. Crawling in sand/mud. So far, I have not had a Glock fail, but they are certainly not as nice to shoot as the Springfield.

I plan in increasing the tension on the trigger return spring as well. I don’t need a 2.5# trigger but I do need a dirty trigger to return and reset.

All academic at this point. I have shot a couple three guns with it and it’s ran fine. No field matches yet so I’m basically anticipating failure and trying to get in front of it.

Appreciate the replies.

Chris

 

[Ruff 364]

I have a Vudoo Priest. Flawless pistol even in the dusty AZ desert. I run it in USPSA and Steel Challenge matches.

 

[FieldGaugeFailure]

My carry is a C2. Required no modification at all, no malfunctions at all in over 5000 rounds of +P

 

[cruiserweight]

I find most 2011 problems are mag related. That being said, my Atlas came with a defective lockback slide stop out of the box and had to go back to the factory. I don’t run a lockback slide stop anyways but still

 

[308pirate]

2011's are used in competition because they are reliable
- Glocks, Sigs, M&P's, and CZ's have just as many problems when you try to run them like a competition 2011

LO-fucking-L

 

[FatBoy]

I have a set of Atlas recoil springs and a shock buff waiting to be trimmed and tested.

I have extra power main and firing pin springs waiting to be installed. When they go in we’ll work the trigger return spring up as well and get it a field acceptable trigger pull/over travel.

Mags already have the Atlas extra power springs and lock back followed.

I’ll get these in and run it hard. Maybe introduce creek/swamp water, etc. if it runs, I am most likely having the frame and slide stripped and nitrited to remove the fucking Ceracoat that seems to be the main culprit (combined with a light recoil spring) for this pistol.

1500 rounds, 8 stoppages. All the same thing, bullet sitting half way up the ramp in square range, perfect conditions. No issues since the mag springs/followers were changed but only a couple hundred rounds since they were installed. It’s not a bad pistol at all, just needs some love.

If those mods don’t get it. It’ll become safe queen and ceracoat will stay.

 

[msstate56]

I have a set of Atlas recoil springs and a shock buff waiting to be trimmed and tested.

I have extra power main and firing pin springs waiting to be installed. When they go in we’ll work the trigger return spring up as well and get it a field acceptable trigger pull/over travel.

Mags already have the Atlas extra power springs and lock back followed.

I’ll get these in and run it hard. Maybe introduce creek/swamp water, etc. if it runs, I am most likely having the frame and slide stripped and nitrited to remove the fucking Ceracoat that seems to be the main culprit (combined with a light recoil spring) for this pistol.

1500 rounds, 8 stoppages. All the same thing, bullet sitting half way up the ramp in square range, perfect conditions. No issues since the mag springs/followers were changed but only a couple hundred rounds since they were installed. It’s not a bad pistol at all, just needs some love.

If those mods don’t get it. It’ll become safe queen and ceracoat will stay.

What brand/model are you using that has cerakote?

 

[FatBoy]

What brand/model are you using that has cerakote?

Springfield Prodigy.

 

[putput30]

2011s can be field reliable, just costs a hell of a lot more money to get there. Shot a few higher end models and seen how hard an atlas can run I decided to get my own. Prodigy’s are a platform that needs to be built on. I’d swap out the mim parts and throw in an egw ignition kit as well.

 

[ACard]

My carry is a C2. Required no modification at all, no malfunctions at all in over 5000 rounds of +P

Same and closing in on 7500 rds

 

[FieldGaugeFailure]

Same and closing in on 7500 rds

It's a fantastic carry. A tad bulky, but it gives me a reason to wear some of the shirts I owned when I was fatter. The weight helps it settle well with double clamp holsters.

 

[msstate56]

Springfield Prodigy.

Well there’s your problem. I‘ve shot one, and it’s no where near as well made as a Staccato. I’ve heard the mags that come with the prodigy aren’t great. I’d try some Staccato 3rd gen mags.

 

[mmlook]

LO-fucking-L

ok...

 

[FatBoy]

Well there’s your problem. I‘ve shot one, and it’s no where near as well made as a Staccato. I’ve heard the mags that come with the prodigy aren’t great. I’d try some Staccato 3rd gen mags.

For the money, it’s a pretty nice pistol. It has only had two failures to go into battery in the last 1000 rounds. After that last failure I replaced all the mag strings and followers.

If I continue to have issues, I will certainly get different mags. It seems most of the issues are due to the slide speed (a couple reasons here) and the speed in which the bullet stack is moving.

That said, that’s flat range shit. For the types of matches I like, there aren’t many 2011s. This may be a waste of time, but it’s interesting to me so fuck it, I’m gonna keep pushing. I should figure out what I have into it, all in and track it until I consider it done.

 

[308pirate]

ok...

How long have you been shooting USPSA?

 

[CK1.0]

No.

Using a 2011 (and their finicky magazines) as a work gun could end up getting you killed.

 

[mmlook]

How long have you been shooting USPSA?

7 years?

i don’t keep track, mostly shoot rifles these days

not that it matters

1911 and 2011’s can be reliable, it’s all about how you set them up and the magazines

just like any other handgun

 

[308pirate]

7 years?

i don’t keep track, mostly shoot rifles these days

not that it matters

1911 and 2011’s can be reliable, it’s all about how you set them up and the magazines

just like any other handgun

Then you would know that guns that choke the most in the sport are all 2011s in limited and open

 

[mmlook]

Then you would know that guns that choke the most in the sport are all 2011s in limited and open

not true
- guns that jam the most are factory guns that aren't maintained properly
or modified with aftermarket parts

lets try to agree on a few things

Most common reasons for pistol malfunctions:
1. Ammo out of spec
- i.e. too long, not sized enough, not enough crimp
2. Bad magazine
- i.e. weak spring, bad follower, not loaded correctly, mag out of spec
3. Pistol it self
- i.e. too tight on lock up, chamber too tight or too short, weak recoil spring, extractor not adjusted or worn out

2011's own the market share at nationals for limited and open
- in hit factor scoring, malfunctions = wasted time = likely not going to win

 

[mmlook]

With the recent explosion of 2011 pistols, I am curious if there is a strategy of making these pistols field reliable while maintaining decent accuracy? These seems to run on the ragged edge of spring strength for cycling, the 1911 style trigger seems to be a failure point for grit/silt preventing reset and the mags don’t seem to tolerate anything that would slow the stack from moving, causing no loads or failures to go into battery.

These pistols are awesome on the flat range, but has anyone developed one to be field reliable? Or a protocol for making them field reliable?

to answer your questions

to make them run reliable in field conditions
set them up like any other factory polymer pistol
1. bigger chamber, with slightly less support
2. over spring it, on the recoil spring
- dont use a 8-11lb spring
3. don't use competition mags, mag springs and followers
- use something designed for duty/carry, not for competition and capacity
4. dont run and setup the trigger for 1.5lbs, with a crazy short reset
- this makes the sear very susceptible to hammer fall and failure

if you setup a Glock like a competition 2011, you will have the same issues
- trust me, I've tried
- 1.5lb trigger + tight chamber + light recoil spring + 23-25rd magazine + no cleaning and no oil = very temperamental gun

 

[FieldGaugeFailure]

to answer your questions

to make them run reliable in field conditions
set them up like any other factory polymer pistol
1. bigger chamber, with slightly less support
2. over spring it, on the recoil spring
- dont use a 8-11lb spring
3. don't use competition mags, mag springs and followers
- use something designed for duty/carry, not for competition and capacity
4. dont run and setup the trigger for 1.5lbs, with a crazy short reset
- this makes the sear very susceptible to hammer fall and failure

I would agree with these points, and also add "don't buy a non-field 2011". A lot of the folks that complain that their 2011 isn't field reliable, are running non-duty 2011s. My C2 has been dead nuts reliable, because it's a carry pistol by design. If someone is tying to do field exercises with a comped absurd piece and mags with capacity additive bases, that have also never seen +P ammo before, yeah it's probably going to act up.

 

[CK1.0]

I've put tens of thousands of rounds downrange with 1911/2011-pattern guns. I dig them.

Yes, it's a fact that they can be very reliable for racing... when you take care of them like they are for racing, keeping them dialed and running tip-top (bespoke ammo, liberal lubrication, routine worn/fresh spring swaps, etc). Due to their design, they can have sweet triggers.

Also, due to their design... they can (and do) fuck up more, their design being inherently more susceptible to more different things going wrong as compared to the usual plastic work/duty gun of the everyman (from Austria), like:
a lil' too dry/dirty = failure
worm recoil spring = failure
worn mag spring = failure
f'ed up feed lips = failure
grip-safety malfunction = failure
out-of-tune extractor (my favorite) = failure
wonky mag follower (nosedives) = failure
bullet profile it doesn't like = failure
dirty/too steep feed ramp = failure
(you get the idea)

A work gun is a tool (that usually lives a much tougher and far more neglected life).

That said, if one has decided to choose "unserious tactical hipster John Wick wannabee" over pragmatism, don't fuck with the trigger... a 1911/2011 with a trigger heavier than 3lbs is sad and pathetic.

 

[st1650]

I’ll take a short 2.5 - 3lbs 1911 trigger with a really strong reset over a 1.5lbs with a mushy weak reset.

 

[Gentleman4561]

No, as a 2011 always has an exposed hammer and if anything g gets between the hammer and the firing pin (mud) it will fail.

 

[st1650]

No, as a 2011 always has an exposed hammer and if anything g gets between the hammer and the firing pin (mud) it will fail.

One of the most reliable mud test pistol was the old USP 45 with an external hammer.

 

[Gentleman4561]

One of the most reliable mud test pistol was the old USP 45 with an external hammer.

My 2011 did not survive crawling through a mud pit at Ft Benning and that told me all I needed to know.