CCW Zero Distance

[Milf Dots]

Most if not all of the Sig Sauer Training Academy's YT videos suggest 15yd zero for PMOs on CCW pistols. Some instructors may suggest 10yd zero for same, while some like 25yds. There's no wrong answer.

Pistols with OEM iron sights are zero'd for various distances depending on manufacturer and what sight heights they had on hand when the pistol was manufactured.

 

[Milf Dots]

The method of zeroing will have an impact on your results also- zero'd from bench and bags, from bench, from standing with vertical support, standing without support, etc.

Also, each different load will result in slightly different results on paper.

There are lots of different variables.

 

[ACard]

Sounds to me like the best answer is to make a command decision, pick a distance and train, train, train....

 

[308pirate]

A pistol is nothing but a shitty tool you use to work your way to a rifle/carbine.

There is no rifle to go get for 99.9999999% of the people (who aren't soldiers) who end up in a gunfight. I include cops in that percentage.

That reality is why the overwhelming majority of my time spent training, practicing, and competing with firearms is done with handguns.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Maybe in your world. I have carbine and rifles stashed in every vehicle and within a room or two in the house.

Pistols are shitty man stoppers. But they are the hardest to shoot well and take up the most time to stay proficient.

11.5" AR with a light and a red dot solves alot of these issues.

 

[LawnMM]

Maybe in your world. I have carbine and rifles stashed in every vehicle and within a room or two in the house.

He lives in the real world, you live on fantasy island. Having a carbine in the car is great, as long as the car is a few feet away.

What's your plan if you're inside Sam's Club/Costco when the shooting starts and all you have is your shitty man stopper that you don't bother training with?

What if it's a restaurant? Or a school? Movie theater? You gonna tuck tail and run out to the car and come back? Get real

You should spend your time training with what you carry on you MOST of the time because that's what you're most likely to have available to deal with the problem when it presents itself.

You're not likely to have the time or proximity to your vehicle to put on your cape and plates.

 

[Milf Dots]

Sounds to me like the best answer is to make a command decision, pick a distance and train, train, train....

This ^^^.

 

[Clayman]

Maybe in your world. I have carbine and rifles stashed in every vehicle and within a room or two in the house.

Pistols are shitty man stoppers. But they are the hardest to shoot well and take up the most time to stay proficient.

11.5" AR with a light and a red dot solves alot of these issues.

So you walk around town/stores/etc with an 11.5 AR slung around you?

 

[fdkay]

200 yards, best compromise between up close and long range.

 

[308pirate]

Maybe in your world. I have carbine and rifles stashed in every vehicle and within a room or two in the house.

LOL

Cool story bro

 

[LawnMM]

Maybe in your world. I have carbine and rifles stashed in every vehicle and within a room or two in the house.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

He lives in the real world, you live on fantasy island. Having a carbine in the car is great, as long as the car is a few feet away.

What's your plan if you're inside Sam's Club/Costco when the shooting starts and all you have is your shitty man stopper that you don't bother training with?

What if it's a restaurant? Or a school? Movie theater? You gonna tuck tail and run out to the car and come back? Get real

You should spend your time training with what you carry on you MOST of the time because that's what you're most likely to have available to deal with the problem when it presents itself.

You're not likely to have the time or proximity to your vehicle to put on your cape and plates.

Are an autistic?

You control what you can control.

Your damn right I will be high tailing out of wherever, as long as my familly is safe , getting them out unharmed is #1. Why would I come back? I don't get paid to protect sheep. Fuck them , they can fend for themselves.

Where did I say I don't train?

Where did I say I don't have a pistol on me?

You really need to try to use the brain you have.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

LOL

Cool story bro

Its a great story. You should try it.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

....and whats your plan when you get jumped leaving the store and your car is 50+ yds away....?

by the time youve "fought your way to your rifle"...chances are good the situation is going to have been resolved...so why not learn to use the tool you are going to have with you?

And what part of your non functioning brain would even ask such a retarded question?

I am sorry reasoning was a skill you were not taught.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Please show me where I said I don't carry a pistol or don't have one within arms reach.

A bunch of retarded ass assumptions in here.

 

[308pirate]

Its a great story. You should try it.

No thanks. I live in reality.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

No thanks. I live in reality.

You can't afford 7-8 ARs?

Shame

 

[LawnMM]

Are an autistic?

You control what you can control.

Your damn right I will be high tailing out of wherever, as long as my familly is safe , getting them out unharmed is #1. Why would I come back? I don't get paid to protect sheep. Fuck them , they can fend for themselves.

LOL you're trying to change the scenario to suit your answer.

You're advocating not wasting time training with a pistol because you always have an AR nearby.

We're pointing out situations where that isn't practical or even possible to point out how stupid you sound.

Your answer is to assume you'll be able to run away without having to engage the threat along the way.

What if the threat is between you and the door, dipshit? Might wish you'd trained a little more with the pistol and whatever sights are on it, especially if you're outgunned because HE brought the rifle and you didn't and the only way you're getting yourself or your family out is by going through him.

Sure we'd all avoid that if we could, but just like bringing an AR everywhere we go isn't possible, if dude steps out of the aisle 10ft away on your way out of the store with your family, avoiding him ain't really an option anymore.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

LOL you're trying to change the scenario to suit your answer.

You're advocating not wasting time training with a pistol because you always have an AR nearby.

We're pointing out situations where that isn't practical or even possible to point out how stupid you sound.

Your answer is to assume you'll be able to run away without having to engage the threat along the way.

What if the threat is between you and the door, dipshit? Might wish you'd trained a little more with the pistol and whatever sights are on it, especially if you're outgunned because HE brought the rifle and you didn't and the only way you're getting yourself or your family out is by going through him.

Sure we'd all avoid that if we could, but just like bringing an AR everywhere we go isn't possible, if dude steps out of the aisle 10ft away on your way out of the store with your family, avoiding him ain't really an option anymore.

Change what scenario? What are you even talking about?

Where the fuck did I say to not train with a pistol. You really need to learn some reading comprehension before you post. Please show me where I said this.

You are pointing out nonsensical shit that has no bearing at the discussion at hand. I never assumed anything. Situation dictates actions. The fact I have to explain something that is obvious to anyone with an IQ above 90 is really sad. Do you need someone to instruct you to wipe your ass and blow your nose as well?

 

[308pirate]

You can't afford 7-8 ARs?

Shame

Sounds like you can't afford to get good with a pistol.

For shame...

Seriously the "fight my way to a rifle" cliche is beyond stupid.

It's okay to walk it back. It is that bad.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Sounds like you can't afford to get good with a pistol.

For shame...

Seriously the "fight my way to a rifle" cliche is beyond stupid.

It's okay to walk it back. It is that bad.

LOL. Been in alot of gunfights? You should look up lethality and time it take to neutralize a threat between a pistol and rifle. Rounds fired vs impacts as well as how many rounds on average are expended to end the fight.

Anyone who has a reasonable expectation of getting into a 2 way engagement, is going to carry a carbine or rifle.

Hey not everyone can afford to stash a carbine or 7. Not everyone can afford to stash a pistol in every room either. That's a you problem.

USPSA guys are funny. You see no one ever shoots back at them, so they have zero stressors. Do some Force on Force training and it may open your eyes. If you can afford it, go spend a week at CQD and really learn about how to react.

 

[MadDuner]

I have lots of ARs, but I also want to continue being proficient with a handgun.
My thoughts are that I am about 1000% more likely to need my handgun outside of my house - than I am to need an AR at my house.... and I can't or won't carry an AR around all day.

 

[E. Bryant]

You are pointing out nonsensical shit that has no bearing at the discussion at hand.

Ah CrabbyDismountedTurretgunner, we missed you.

You're that one that introduced the topic of a rifle, which is the very definition of "nonsensical shit that has no bearing at the discussion at hand". You could have simply stated what zero you're employing on the pistol you intend to use to fight back to your rifle. Since this tactic inherently requires sufficient time/space for a weapon transition, it's presumably not getting employed at bad-breath distances. Seems like you might have something relevant to share.

The financial requirements of stashing 7-8 high-quality ARs have fuck-all to do with any criticism of this strategy. The amount of time I spend in the real world - away from my vehicle and my bedroom safe - are far more impactful concerns.

Getting back to the topic, 25 yards seems like a workable zero. Should be long enough for that rare scenario where someone wants to shoot it out across a parking lot, and doesn't create an excessively large offset at close distances.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Ah CrabbyDismountedTurretgunner, we missed you.

You're that one that introduced the topic of a rifle, which is the very definition of "nonsensical shit that has no bearing at the discussion at hand". You could have simply stated what zero you're employing on the pistol you intend to use to fight back to your rifle. Since this tactic inherently requires sufficient time/space for a weapon transition, it's presumably not getting employed at bad-breath distances. Seems like you might have something relevant to share.

The financial requirements of stashing 7-8 high-quality ARs have fuck-all to do with any criticism of this strategy. The amount of time I spend in the real world - away from my vehicle and my bedroom safe - are far more impactful concerns.

Getting back to the topic, 25 yards seems like a workable zero. Should be long enough for that rare scenario where someone wants to shoot it out across a parking lot, and doesn't create an excessively large offset at close distances.

Oh look another who can't read. Funny you should go back to my first post where it says a 7 yard zero is easiest, but doesn't really matter due to offset being irrelevant at that distance.

I am sorry you want to purposly handicap yourself and reduce your survivability. Not everyone life is worth that much I guess.

Who said anything about guns being in a safe? More artifical handicaps from those who do not think for themselves.

 

[LawnMM]

I like 25yds because that's still a realistic engagement distance and I'd prefer to be dead nuts there and a little off closer in where the offset matters less like the AR Muppet pointed out.

What I don't understand is realizing that the offset angle is inconsequential at close range and zeroing for it at close range anyway but to each their own I guess.

 

[308pirate]

LOL. Been in alot of gunfights? You should look up lethality and time it take to neutralize a threat between a pistol and rifle. Rounds fired vs impacts as well as how many rounds on average are expended to end the fight.

Anyone who has a reasonable expectation of getting into a 2 way engagement, is going to carry a carbine or rifle.

Hey not everyone can afford to stash a carbine or 7. Not everyone can afford to stash a pistol in every room either. That's a you problem.

USPSA guys are funny. You see no one ever shoots back at them, so they have zero stressors. Do some Force on Force training and it may open your eyes. If you can afford it, go spend a week at CQD and really learn about how to react.

No one is disputing or arguing relative lethality. Just one of the many strawmen that you've introduced to try to remain (unsuccessfully) relevant in this discussion.

My experience with gunfights is another equally irrelevant strawman. I don't need to be a gunfighter to analyze information and make intelligent deductions.

You're living a fantasy, pure and simple.

 

[MadDuner]

I like 25yds because that's still a realistic engagement distance and I'd prefer to be dead nuts there and a little off closer in where the offset matters less like the AR Muppet pointed out.

What I don't understand is realizing that the offset angle is inconsequential at close range and zeroing for it at close range anyway but to each their own I guess.

There is very little chance that anyone will ever use their sights at a close range encounter anyway.
You will draw, point, and shoot before the sights even come into focus..... just like your life depended upon it.

 

[308pirate]

There is very little chance that anyone will ever use their sights at a close range encounter anyway.
You will draw, point, and shoot before the sights even come into focus..... just like your life depended upon it.

Source?

 

[LawnMM]

There is very little chance that anyone will ever use their sights at a close range encounter anyway.
You will draw, point, and shoot before the sights even come into focus..... just like your life depended upon it.

Depends on the person and the distance involved. I don't like generalizations, leads to lazy preparation based on an assumption that's not necessarily correct.

 

[MadDuner]

Source?

Old age...

 

[308pirate]

Old age...

In other words you made that up.

If you have time to bring up the gun to eye level there's time to use a red dot sight (the point of this thread). There's no need to "bring the sights in focus" because that isn't how RDS work

I guess if you're an aging Fudd with a slow ass draw and a shitty index so it takes you forever to use the sights I can see why you would want to convince yourself that aiming isn't necessary.

One more thing, the less you aim the better chance you have of missing and hitting someone you shouldn't. Your lack of skill could turn a good shoot into a felony conviction.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

No one is disputing or arguing relative lethality. Just one of the many strawmen that you've introduced to try to remain (unsuccessfully) relevant in this discussion.

My experience with gunfights is another equally irrelevant strawman. I don't need to be a gunfighter to analyze information and make intelligent deductions.

You're living a fantasy, pure and simple.

No you are living in fantasy land. Like I said, you haven't been in any real engagements so you do not understand the stressors or realistic employment of arms. Feel free to go watch Police Activity on youtube which is not apples to apples for citizen shootings, but it gives you a good idea of how fights play out at speed and different ranges. The ones where an officer is employing a Rifle or Carbine, tend to end much faster and there is usually a body bag or two involved. Most shots don't hit their target even at close range with a pistol.

What doesn't make sense is why some would would purposely handicap themselves. Inside the home, you should be a short distance to a long gun. Everyone has different jobs and lifestyles. You can build a high quality AR pistol with an AP and quality light for under $1500. Easy to stash with a few mags and blowout kit in any vehicle. Now you have ready access within a few to 30 seconds of a fight stopper.

Pistols are a matter of convenience, portability and concealability. They are poor man stoppers. The vast majority of people do not train enough WITH stressors to be able to employ them effectively in a life or death situation. Are they better than nothing? Duh. Should you still carry one, train and how to use one? Well no shit. It still doesn't change the fact that if you have a choice between the two, there is no fucking choice.

Now instead of being a bunch of autistic retards saying dumb shit like "Hey you can't take an AR into a restaurant or movie theater....." maybe you should be thinking about threat assesements, putting yourself into low probability situations and planning around the challeneges. No shit you cant have a rifle with you at all times, but you can plan around this and minimize the time you are not withing reasonable distance to one. House, Car, RV, Boat, Hotel Room, place of business, ect that you could reasonably stage something that will give you an advantage should you need it. You carry a pistol as an insurance policy, so how is a carbine/rifle any different.

Here is a vid from a couple days ago from someone who forgot more about gunfighting than everyone on this website combined. "I carry a rifle in my vehicle". This is what we call a hint.

 

[MadDuner]

Depends on the person and the distance involved. I don't like generalizations, leads to lazy preparation based on an assumption that's not necessarily correct.

If somebody is 3-5 yds from you and you

In other words you made that up.

If you have time to bring up the gun to eye level there's time to use a red dot sight (the point of this thread). There's no need to "bring the sights in focus" because that isn't how RDS work

I guess if you're an aging Fudd with a slow ass draw and a shitty index so it takes you forever to use the sights I can see why you would want to convince yourself that aiming isn't necessary.

One more thing, the less you aim the better chance you have of missing and hitting someone you shouldn't. Your lack of skill could turn a good shoot into a felony conviction.

My point shooting netted 2nd place at the last Steel Challenge I attended.....

 

[308pirate]

My point shooting netted 2nd place at the last Steel Challenge I attended.....

LOLOLOOL.....

 

[308pirate]

No you are living in fantasy land. Like I said, you haven't been in any real engagements so you do not understand the stressors or realistic employment of arms. Feel free to go watch Police Activity on youtube which is not apples to apples for citizen shootings, but it gives you a good idea of how fights play out at speed and different ranges. The ones where an officer is employing a Rifle or Carbine, tend to end much faster and there is usually a body bag or two involved. Most shots don't hit their target even at close range with a pistol.

What doesn't make sense is why some would would purposely handicap themselves. Inside the home, you should be a short distance to a long gun. Everyone has different jobs and lifestyles. You can build a high quality AR pistol with an AP and quality light for under $1500. Easy to stash with a few mags and blowout kit in any vehicle. Now you have ready access within a few to 30 seconds of a fight stopper.

Pistols are a matter of convenience, portability and concealability. They are poor man stoppers. The vast majority of people do not train enough WITH stressors to be able to employ them effectively in a life or death situation. Are they better than nothing? Duh. Should you still carry one, train and how to use one? Well no shit. It still doesn't change the fact that if you have a choice between the two, there is no fucking choice.

Now instead of being a bunch of autistic retards saying dumb shit like "Hey you can't take an AR into a restaurant or movie theater....." maybe you should be thinking about threat assesements, putting yourself into low probability situations and planning around the challeneges. No shit you cant have a rifle with you at all times, but you can plan around this and minimize the time you are not withing reasonable distance to one. House, Car, RV, Boat, Hotel Room, place of business, ect that you could reasonably stage something that will give you an advantage should you need it. You carry a pistol as an insurance policy, so how is a carbine/rifle any different.

Here is a vid from a couple days ago from someone who forgot more about gunfighting than everyone on this website combined. "I carry a rifle in my vehicle". This is what we call a hint.

A. It's illegal in my state to have a loaded rifle in a vehicle. Unloaded rifles in vehicles are mental masturbation.

B. I don't pay attention to YouTube videos

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

A. It's illegal in my state to have a loaded rifle in a vehicle. Unloaded rifles in vehicles are mental masturbation.

B. I don't pay attention to YouTube videos

A. It takes 3 seconds to load a magazine. Use a redimag if you have to. You also break about 50 laws a day you don't even know about, whats 1 more?

B. You're Loss.

 

[fdkay]

In other words you made that up.

If you have time to bring up the gun to eye level there's time to use a red dot sight (the point of this thread). There's no need to "bring the sights in focus" because that isn't how RDS work

I guess if you're an aging Fudd with a slow ass draw and a shitty index so it takes you forever to use the sights I can see why you would want to convince yourself that aiming isn't necessary.

One more thing, the less you aim the better chance you have of missing and hitting someone you shouldn't. Your lack of skill could turn a good shoot into a felony conviction.

Wait a minute now, I resemble that remark!

 

[LawnMM]

What doesn't make sense is why some would would purposely handicap themselves. Inside the home, you should be a short distance to a long gun. Everyone has different jobs and lifestyles. You can build a high quality AR pistol with an AP and quality light for under $1500. Easy to stash with a few mags and blowout kit in any vehicle. Now you have ready access within a few to 30 seconds of a fight stopper.

The only one talking about being attacked inside their home is you, dumbass.

My odds of being attacked in my residence are like fucking ZERO compared to being out in public.

That's why the OP is asking about zero distance for... wait for it CCW!!!

You don't need a CCW inside your house. The title of the thread wasn't, why are pistols a poor choice for home defense and how many ARs should I stash in each room or you'd be a fucking rock star in this thread.

Instead you're blathering on about shit that's irrelevant to the conversation. "An AR is a better way to end a gunfight." How did you put it? No fucking shit Sherlock, but you can't fucking TAKE ONE EVERYWHERE.

maybe you should be thinking about threat assesements, putting yourself into low probability situations and planning around the challeneges.

Maybe you should be posting on ARFCOM. You act like you're telling people shit we've never heard before while still missing the point and doubling down on yours.

Unless whatever scenario you're imagining unfolds right next to your vehicle, having the AR in it won't do you a whole lot of good.

Nobody's arguing what the better combat weapons platform is, we're pointing out you can't hide an AR under your fucking coat. So unless you get attacked at the range, your house, or entering/exiting your vehicle you're harping on something that doesn't fucking matter.

The vast majority of people do not train enough WITH stressors to be able to employ them effectively in a life or death situation.

That's why everyone here is saying: start fuckin training. While you keep squawking:

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

im still wondering in what situation a person would be able to "fight their way to their vehicle to retrieve a rifle".....but not also be in a position to just get in the vehicle and drive off....


bitch, if i make it to my car, im getting in it and getting the fuck out of there....anywhere i need a rifle is not any place i have any business being.

Look at the big brain on Brad. Now you are starting to think.

Situation dictates actions. Are there situations where you need to stand and fight, or maneuver and close? Yep. Are there situations where you just unass the AO? Yup.

Here is the one little piece many here seem to forget. You don't get to pick the time or the place shit goes sideways.

 

[LawnMM]

Here is the one little piece many here seem to forget. You don't get to pick the time or the place shit goes sideways.

Sayeth the Muppet pinning his hopes for survival on the rifle in his car

 

[carbonbased]

My new fighting technique is unstoppable

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

The only one talking about being attacked inside their home is you, dumbass.

My odds of being attacked in my residence are like fucking ZERO compared to being out in public.

That's why the OP is asking about zero distance for... wait for it CCW!!!

You don't need a CCW inside your house. The title of the thread wasn't, why are pistols a poor choice for home defense and how many ARs should I stash in each room or you'd be a fucking rock star in this thread.

Instead you're blathering on about shit that's irrelevant to the conversation. "An AR is a better way to end a gunfight." How did you put it? No fucking shit Sherlock, but you can't fucking TAKE ONE EVERYWHERE.


Maybe you should be posting on ARFCOM. You act like you're telling people shit we've never heard before while still missing the point and doubling down on yours.

Unless whatever scenario you're imagining unfolds right next to your vehicle, having the AR in it won't do you a whole lot of good.

Nobody's arguing what the better combat weapons platform is, we're pointing out you can't hide an AR under your fucking coat. So unless you get attacked at the range, your house, or entering/exiting your vehicle you're harping on something that doesn't fucking matter.


That's why everyone here is saying: start fuckin training. While you keep squawking:
View attachment 7842991

You're meme game sucks. Like really bad. Sure you aren't a liberal?

Please show me where I said you could only be attacked in your house? Again, you keep making shit up no one ever said as some part of your argument.

Its clear thus far you aren't too bright. Here are some suggestions to help you with these issues:
Amazon product ASIN 1641522941Amazon product ASIN 1641524995

 

[LawnMM]

You're meme game sucks. Like really bad. Sure you aren't a liberal?

Please show me where I said you could only be attacked in your house? Again, you keep making shit up no one ever said as some part of your argument.

Its clear thus far you aren't too bright. Here are some suggestions to help you with these issues:
Amazon product ASIN 1641522941Amazon product ASIN 1641524995

All you talk about is your fucking house. You're literally, the ONLY one, to bring up the idea of being attacked in your home in this entire thread. You're just plain delusional.

You're posting Amazon shit and my meme game sucks? LOL

 

[carbonbased]

Screw this thread.

I’m going to the box store to browse for some burritos.

 

[LawnMM]

At least you're bringing plenty of rifles

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

name the scenario

Vehicle Blocked in / disabled, Family still in threat area, Active Shooter, Coming home to a B&E with family inside, Having to bug out, Having to Bug in.

I had to draw down on a homeless fuck trying to break into my house a few years ago. Held him proned out with AR until police came and took his ass to jail. Had a pistol at arms reach when I saw him, still moved to carbine before engaging with him. It was 2pm on a tuesday. Good thing I was working from home that day.

In my AO we are overdue for a catastrophic earthquake/tsunami that happens every 250-400 years that will kill tens/hundreds of thousands and cripple the region for years. 80%+ of the bridges will drop. Most of seattle will mudslide in the sound, Rainer will liquify sending llahars down the valleys wiping everything in their path. Most of the building in Portland will pancake and downtown will be under water for weeks. What do you think happens when people haven't eaten for a few days with no resupply in the forseable future. It will be the biggest natural disaster in American History and make Katrina look like a sunny day with a few rain sprinkles.

There are a hundred other scenarios why you may have to fight from a vehicle or maneuver. A rifle is a cheap insurance policy and requires much less training time than a pistol to be proficient while being much more effective at both close range and distance, where distance = safety. Pistols have their place but you have to be a special breed of stupid to not understand the differences and realize what kind of advantage they provide.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

All you talk about is your fucking house. You're literally, the ONLY one, to bring up the idea of being attacked in your home in this entire thread. You're just plain delusional.

You're posting Amazon shit and my meme game sucks? LOL

View attachment 7843025

Your meme game is dead as Connery. You are the only one fixated on someones house.

 

[carbonbased]

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

ROFL you even used the meme I used the other day.

Can't beat em, Join them right?

Buddy you couldn’t wheel a fuckin tire down a hill.

 

[LawnMM]

Maybe in your world. I have carbine and rifles stashed in every vehicle and within a room or two in the house.

Pistols are shitty man stoppers. But they are the hardest to shoot well and take up the most time to stay proficient.

11.5" AR with a light and a red dot solves alot of these issues.

LOL. Been in alot of gunfights? You should look up lethality and time it take to neutralize a threat between a pistol and rifle. Rounds fired vs impacts as well as how many rounds on average are expended to end the fight.

Anyone who has a reasonable expectation of getting into a 2 way engagement, is going to carry a carbine or rifle.

Hey not everyone can afford to stash a carbine or 7. Not everyone can afford to stash a pistol in every room either. That's a you problem.

USPSA guys are funny. You see no one ever shoots back at them, so they have zero stressors. Do some Force on Force training and it may open your eyes. If you can afford it, go spend a week at CQD and really learn about how to react.

every room of..... a house?

No you are living in fantasy land. Like I said, you haven't been in any real engagements so you do not understand the stressors or realistic employment of arms. Feel free to go watch Police Activity on youtube which is not apples to apples for citizen shootings, but it gives you a good idea of how fights play out at speed and different ranges. The ones where an officer is employing a Rifle or Carbine, tend to end much faster and there is usually a body bag or two involved. Most shots don't hit their target even at close range with a pistol.

What doesn't make sense is why some would would purposely handicap themselves. Inside the home, you should be a short distance to a long gun. Everyone has different jobs and lifestyles. You can build a high quality AR pistol with an AP and quality light for under $1500. Easy to stash with a few mags and blowout kit in any vehicle. Now you have ready access within a few to 30 seconds of a fight stopper.

Pistols are a matter of convenience, portability and concealability. They are poor man stoppers. The vast majority of people do not train enough WITH stressors to be able to employ them effectively in a life or death situation. Are they better than nothing? Duh. Should you still carry one, train and how to use one? Well no shit. It still doesn't change the fact that if you have a choice between the two, there is no fucking choice.

Now instead of being a bunch of autistic retards saying dumb shit like "Hey you can't take an AR into a restaurant or movie theater....." maybe you should be thinking about threat assesements, putting yourself into low probability situations and planning around the challeneges. No shit you cant have a rifle with you at all times, but you can plan around this and minimize the time you are not withing reasonable distance to one. House, Car, RV, Boat, Hotel Room, place of business, ect that you could reasonably stage something that will give you an advantage should you need it. You carry a pistol as an insurance policy, so how is a carbine/rifle any different.

Here is a vid from a couple days ago from someone who forgot more about gunfighting than everyone on this website combined. "I carry a rifle in my vehicle". This is what we call a hint.

Vehicle Blocked in / disabled, Family still in threat area, Active Shooter, Coming home to a B&E with family inside, Having to bug out, Having to Bug in.

I had to draw down on a homeless fuck trying to break into my house a few years ago. Held him proned out with AR until police came and took his ass to jail. Had a pistol at arms reach when I saw him, still moved to carbine before engaging with him. It was 2pm on a tuesday. Good thing I was working from home that day.

In my AO we are overdue for a catastrophic earthquake/tsunami that happens every 250-400 years that will kill tens/hundreds of thousands and cripple the region for years. 80%+ of the bridges will drop. Most of seattle will mudslide in the sound, Rainer will liquify sending llahars down the valleys wiping everything in their path. Most of the building in Portland will pancake and downtown will be under water for weeks. What do you think happens when people haven't eaten for a few days with no resupply in the forseable future. It will be the biggest natural disaster in American History and make Katrina look like a sunny day with a few rain sprinkles.

There are a hundred other scenarios why you may have to fight from a vehicle or maneuver. A rifle is a cheap insurance policy and requires much less training time than a pistol to be proficient while being much more effective at both close range and distance, where distance = safety. Pistols have their place but you have to be a special breed of stupid to not understand the differences and realize what kind of advantage they provide.