Gunsmithing Chamber flush system questions

[chipsfan]

Hi,

A few questions. Been reading about these things for years

1. My basic understanding is there are two loops from the pump. One that has a ball valve and cycles to the tank to control pressure and the other to the barrel. Is this correct?

2. Can anyone help me source the pump? Greg Tannel is a kick ass guy and sells his for $1100. Is there a less expensive source that will work for the casual user?

Thanks

 

[colchester]

This is the type I have. I would think you could find it for less $$ but this is what your after
McMaster-Carr

 

[flatland1]

I've read about quite a few guys who built their own pressure flush systems on various websites. Would recommend you take a look at the gunsmithing forum on benchrest central to see if there are any current threads on the subject. Not sure what happened, but a couple of years ago, they lost or deleted beau coup pages of past threads on that forum, so unless something's changed, you might not find much over there. Whatever - there are (or were) more pretty sharp gun plumbers on that site than any other I've found.

 

[ugsly]

If you buy the gear pump try to get it from MSC when they have a 25-30% off sale.


Casey

 

[jonaddis84]

Ebay is your friend, search for carbonator gear pump, shertech gear pump, then start looking at the related results. I got mine for $125 I think. You just need to make sure its a gear pump not a vane pump. 1/3 and above HP will work fine.

Forget the ball valve to control pressure, its impossible to regulate. Will be fine with no restrictions, but as soon as you plug the reamer in there pressure will skyrocket. Get on MSC and get:
Conbraco #16-501-25
1/2" port 0-250 psi
MSC #37011921

One other thing, can take it or leave it. Forget the GTR muzzle adapter. It worked great for me for maybe 10 barrels, then finally decided to leak like a sieve. I never thought Id want to do this, but Im doing it not and it works great. Get a Q drill bit, get a 1/8npt pipe tap, and keep a drill handy. I just do it right on the lathe by hand at the outboard end before dialing in. No need to have the threads concentric or anything, youre not going to spin it fast (500rpm is okay even if its wobbling like a MF). Then just have a brass close nipple between your rotating coupler and the barrel, no need for thread tape.

One last thing, dont forget you have to cut your reamer pilot retention screws to line up with the grooves.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/sniper-hide-gunsmithing/246200-another-chamber-flush-question.html

 

[chipsfan]

Ebay is your friend, search for carbonator gear pump, shertech gear pump, then start looking at the related results. I got mine for $125 I think. You just need to make sure its a gear pump not a vane pump. 1/3 and above HP will work fine.

Forget the ball valve to control pressure, its impossible to regulate. Will be fine with no restrictions, but as soon as you plug the reamer in there pressure will skyrocket. Get on MSC and get:
Conbraco #16-501-25
1/2" port 0-250 psi
MSC #37011921

One other thing, can take it or leave it. Forget the GTR muzzle adapter. It worked great for me for maybe 10 barrels, then finally decided to leak like a sieve. I never thought Id want to do this, but Im doing it not and it works great. Get a Q drill bit, get a 1/8npt pipe tap, and keep a drill handy. I just do it right on the lathe by hand at the outboard end before dialing in. No need to have the threads concentric or anything, youre not going to spin it fast (500rpm is okay even if its wobbling like a MF). Then just have a brass close nipple between your rotating coupler and the barrel, no need for thread tape.

One last thing, dont forget you have to cut your reamer pilot retention screws to line up with the grooves.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/sniper-hide-gunsmithing/246200-another-chamber-flush-question.html


View attachment 44284
View attachment 44285

I have a couple of solid pilot Reamers that work like a champ. Will they work with a power flush system?

 

[jonaddis84]

Probably not as well, then you are trying to force all that fluid just through the grooves in the bore, especially if they are smaller calibers. It will still work better than no flush system, but you may need to take it a bit easier.

 

[jonaddis84]

Not very pretty, as it was put together with parts I had on hand when the gtr decided to crap out, but it works!

 

[glbreil]

I am using an air operated diaphram pump and I think it works great. No need for a pressure regulating valve. It pumps 1:1 bases on the supply air pressure. So if you want 80 pound oil pressure just supply 80 pound of air.

Gary

 

[chipsfan]

Not very pretty, as it was put together with parts I had on hand when the gtr decided to crap out, but it works!

That's pretty cool. Forgive my ignorance, but what parts would I need to make that adapter?

 

[jonaddis84]

Well, thats the swivel piece off the GTR, which I believe is just a swivel compressed air fitting. It uses 1/4npt, so if you want to build the exact thing I have, you need a 1/4npt female/female coupler, a 1/4nptm>1/8nptf adapter, then a 1/8npt male/male nipple.

Personally I would try to find a way so that when you go to remove the nipple from the barrel, it doesnt unscrew from that reducing adapter. They might make a 1/4nptf>1/8nptm reducer that has a hex on it, that would be ideal.

You may be better off buying a better quality swivel fitting. I cant say for sure how long this one will last as I dont do a ton of work like some guys on here do. I know Chad raves about the carbide ones MSC sells, but whether you do enough work to justify a $300 swivel fitting is up to you. Maybe buying a few of the compressed air ones when they start to leak is better for your situation. I think mine leaks a very small amount right now, cant say for sure, but the hose always seems to have a little bit of oil on it below the fitting...it may just be from when I lay it in the lathe sump when not in use though.

 

[chipsfan]

Well, thats the swivel piece off the GTR, which I believe is just a swivel compressed air fitting. It uses 1/4npt, so if you want to build the exact thing I have, you need a 1/4npt female/female coupler, a 1/4nptm>1/8nptf adapter, then a 1/8npt male/male nipple.

Personally I would try to find a way so that when you go to remove the nipple from the barrel, it doesnt unscrew from that reducing adapter. They might make a 1/4nptf>1/8nptm reducer that has a hex on it, that would be ideal.

You may be better off buying a better quality swivel fitting. I cant say for sure how long this one will last as I dont do a ton of work like some guys on here do. I know Chad raves about the carbide ones MSC sells, but whether you do enough work to justify a $300 swivel fitting is up to you. Maybe buying a few of the compressed air ones when they start to leak is better for your situation. I think mine leaks a very small amount right now, cant say for sure, but the hose always seems to have a little bit of oil on it below the fitting...it may just be from when I lay it in the lathe sump when not in use though.

No $300 fittings for me. Its a hobby. What type of hoses do you use?

 

[jonaddis84]

Just get the stuff that has braided fiber in it, from any hardware store, 3/8id. Youll want to make a manifold out of 1/2npt, inlet and valved outlet at one end, pressure gauge tee'd in, then the bypass relief valve at the other end. Can use same 3/8 hose for the bypass line returning to your sump.

 

[chipsfan]

Just get the stuff that has braided fiber in it, from any hardware store, 3/8id. Youll want to make a manifold out of 1/2npt, inlet and valved outlet at one end, pressure gauge tee'd in, then the bypass relief valve at the other end. Can use same 3/8 hose for the bypass line returning to your sump.

I'm assuming any oil filled gauge within the proper range would work?

 

[jonaddis84]

Yep, nothing special, Im just using a 100psi and interpolating where Im at over that haha. My pump will make 125psi, and I regularly go upwards of that, but its not like knowing the pressure down to the 1psi really matters very much.

Something I forgot to mention, and I need to do yet, is plumb a line going out to a nozzle for use on the inboard side for threading and what not. I used a cross-tee for the outlet so I could, but the one side is still plugged as you can see in the pic.

 

[chipsfan]

Yep, nothing special, Im just using a 100psi and interpolating where Im at over that haha. My pump will make 125psi, and I regularly go upwards of that, but its not like knowing the pressure down to the 1psi really matters very much.

Something I forgot to mention, and I need to do yet, is plumb a line going out to a nozzle for use on the inboard side for threading and what not. I used a cross-tee for the outlet so I could, but the one side is still plugged as you can see in the pic.

Thats a great idea. I'm getting the ball rolling this week.

What do you think of this for a filter?

Derale 35708 Derale Remote Oil Filter Kits, Mounts, and Adapters - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

 

[jonaddis84]

Buddy had an oil filter explode on his flush system, he now uses the one I have pictured. Amazon for that one, 5 micron poly spun.

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Not very pretty, as it was put together with parts I had on hand when the gtr decided to crap out, but it works!

Did you drill and tap the barrel for that fitting?

 

[jonaddis84]

Yeah, 1/8npt. Like I said above, I don't bother doing it with the lathe, just use a cordless drill right how it's pictured there (before dialing in so I don't mess that up). Takes 30 seconds total.

 

[chipsfan]

Did you drill and tap the barrel for that fitting?

I think he went 1/8" npt right into the barrel if I am not mistaken

 

[chipsfan]

Buddy had an oil filter explode on his flush system, he now uses the one I have pictured. Amazon for that one, 5 micron poly spun.

I went and looked. Water filters came up. What would you call that? They make hydralic ones- those are big $$$$$$

 

[jonaddis84]

It is just a water filter, pentek or something. It's the 10x2" I think, the smaller of the two sizes they sell. They're good to 140psi or so.

 

[chipsfan]

I think it's this one Pentek 150068 3/4 #10 BLUE W/O PR MOUNTING:Amazon:Car Electronics


I'm writing your name on this bad boy when it's done.

 

[jonaddis84]

I think this is the exact one I have, I'd stay away from the 3/4npt or you'll need extra pieces to adapt down to 3/8, you can at least buy a 1/2npt to 3/8 barbed fitting.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002W...5_QL70&qid=1406501187&sr=8-53#ref=mp_s_a_1_53

 

[chipsfan]

OK, I ordered the filter housing, filter, relief valve and a pressure gauge. I emailed a dude about a used pump and I have a massive plumbing place 10 minutes down the road. Should be in business soon...

 

[chipsfan]

Almost all the parts are here.

This is my pump: http://www.pumpvendor.com/media/oberdorfer/Oberdorfer_N992_series.pdf

I am only missing the filter.

I am looking at the base of my lathe and it seems like the post under the gear head is in use. I put my service disconnect and two different 4 outlet boxes on it. The wall behind the lathe is out. I am considering two options: 1. Make this portable on a cart. 2. Make a mounting bracket and mount it between the columns on the lathe base.

My last question, does the filter go upstream from the pump? I've read this. It seems counterintuitive, however, it would be protected from pressure spikes there...

 

[jonaddis84]

I put mine on the pressure side, yeah it doesn't protect the pump from sucking stuff up, but it protects from pumping shit into a barrel, especially if the pump were to grenade and pump parts of it into a barrel.

I did make a strainer for the pump inlet, basically took a 3/4 pvc tee, the straight sides of it have garden hose filter screens captured by short chunks of pvc. That way it can suck from either side of the tee should one clog. I'm not really worried about any big chips in the sump, as all the drain holes have magnets below them.

I'd love to find a magnetic filter if anyone knows of one that's reasonably priced. Would like to have that on the suction line. Especially if it was easily cleaned. I hate cleaning those Damn magnets off with a passion, haven't found any good way to do it yet.

 

[LRI]

You can avoid all this and buy a $30 Big Block Chevy oil pump and do the same exact thing. All your after is a positive displacement pump. Gear, vane, whatever. If figuring out how to mount it proves to be more trouble than you deem worth you can also just bore out a block of AL and swap the gears. It's really all your after anyway. Easy stuff.

It's got a built in pressure bypass valve ta' boot. Spend a little time making a sump, drive shaft (flex couplings work nice), and some plumbing. Your biggest expense should be the motor and the hydraulic union.

As for ensuring the pump stays clear of particulate:

Get a coffee can, put the pump sump in it. Then submerge in the tank. If your really paranoid, put a ring of magnets around the can's outer periphery. If you pull oil from above instead of slurping off the bottom like a carp, it'll be much less likely to ingest solids.

This is important if you buy a hydraulic union. The carbide seals don't work well with solid debris. A hint that it's a great idea to introduce some post pump, pre union filtration. The cheap solution is a set of dual oil filter remote adapters from Transdapt. If you really want to be "high speed" buy a pair of system One oil filters. Pull em every 10 chambers and wash the screens in mineral spirits. Assemble and your in business again.



C.

 

[671RTO9513]

I've got a 302 Ford pump on mine, and it provides way more oil than needed. Most gets bled back into the reservoir.

 

[300sniper]

You can avoid all this and buy a $30 Big Block Chevy oil pump and do the same exact thing. All your after is a positive displacement pump. Gear, vane, whatever. If figuring out how to mount it proves to be more trouble than you deem worth you can also just bore out a block of AL and swap the gears. It's really all your after anyway. Easy stuff.

It's got a built in pressure bypass valve ta' boot. Spend a little time making a sump, drive shaft (flex couplings work nice), and some plumbing. Your biggest expense should be the motor and the hydraulic union.

As for ensuring the pump stays clear of particulate:

Get a coffee can, put the pump sump in it. Then submerge in the tank. If your really paranoid, put a ring of magnets around the can's outer periphery. If you pull oil from above instead of slurping off the bottom like a carp, it'll be much less likely to ingest solids.

This is important if you buy a hydraulic union. The carbide seals don't work well with solid debris. A hint that it's a great idea to introduce some post pump, pre union filtration. The cheap solution is a set of dual oil filter remote adapters from Transdapt. If you really want to be "high speed" buy a pair of system One oil filters. Pull em every 10 chambers and wash the screens in mineral spirits. Assemble and your in business again.



C.

I can call them and ask, but any idea the safe working pressure of the system one filters or their inline filters?

 

[LRI]

They explode at 600psi.


One hell of a Christmas day in 2004 revealed this little discovery...

 

[Edds]

If about 4 GPM and 50 psi is enough coolant for you, a Luberfiner 750 filter is the best there is.

 

[chipsfan]

Once I fill the tank with oil I'll be gtg.

What rpm are you dudes reaming at?

 

[Bill Larson]

Depends on what kinda pressure you wanna run.................... I used a remote coolant tank for a Bridgeport mill..... works great...

 

[jonaddis84]

Once I fill the tank with oil I'll be gtg.

What rpm are you dudes reaming at?

Usually in the 4-500 range, pressure cranked at 125 until closer to the end to prevent spraying it across the shop due to the micrometer stop.

 

[Red_SC]

I've got a 302 Ford pump on mine, and it provides way more oil than needed. Most gets bled back into the reservoir.

What motor setup do you have on that?

 

[300sniper]

Wonder what pressure a sbc oil pump could physically handle if the internal bypass was plugged and a 2hp motor turning it.

 

[LRI]

I had a three phase 5hp Baldor. Plugged it sounded like a top fuel blower. There's plenty of line pressure. I'd leave it.

 

[jonaddis84]

I guess I dont see the advantage to looking at automotive oil pumps here? The Shurtech type bronze gear pumps do basically the same thing, can be had for similar money, they make more pressure, plus you dont need to come up with a way to couple them if you get the carbonator mount style. I mean you need to buy a motor for both of them and thats usually the expensive part if you get a quality motor. The few bucks youd save getting an SBC will be spent in time/materials getting them coupled together. Not trying to rag on anyones SBC oil pump system, maybe Im just missing something.

 

[300sniper]

Some people do things because they can, not because it always makes the most economical sense.