Cheap vs Expensive ammo question

[SNK]

Hello all!

I recently purchased my first long range rifle (MPA PMR Pro 6.5 Creedmoor) to get into PRS shooting and the occasional long-range shooting. I have been looking online to see how much ammo runs, i can find everything from Hornady Match ELD that runs around $2+ a round or Sellier & Bellot hat runs a little over $1.25 per round. My question is, since im am no pro and just getting into the sport, would anyone recommend that i buy the cheaper ammo so i can get more for more practice or does it make such a huge difference in the long range game that everyone use top notch rounds. Thanks. Any insight would be helpful.

​

 

[CNC-Dude]

I'd buy the S&B to break in your barrel and use the Hornady for competitions. At some point you'll need to look at reloading. In a sport where most of your competitors reload, you'll likely not be very competitive using factory ammo...

 

[SNK]

I'd buy the S&B to break in your barrel and use the Hornady for competitions. At some point you'll need to look at reloading. In a sport where most of your competitors reload, you'll likely not be very competitive using factory ammo...

Thank you, what would you say it would cost on average to get a reloading press along with all associated components that would be needed, not including powder, brass, or bullets. How much on average would a round then cost me to make? how big of a difference is it?

 

[Taylorbok]

Reloading is a deep hole and I mean deep. You can get set up to reload on a basic level pretty cheap.
If you are just looking to match the quality of factory ammo that part is easy.
When you start wanting to squeeze more precision out of it is when it becomes time consuming and you start spending more and more money.

 

[db2000]

Thank you, what would you say it would cost on average to get a reloading press along with all associated components that would be needed, not including powder, brass, or bullets. How much on average would a round then cost me to make? how big of a difference is it?

It will make a world of difference if you’re going to compete. Different guns like different load combos. Once you dial that in you can save money. There’s a decent initial investment. The more time you want to save the more expensive it is. An AutoTrickler V4 with FX 120i scale combo will quickly weigh out and throw your powder charge quickly, accurately and consistently. It’s $1100. You can also use the Hornady powder hopper and digital scale and trickle powder by hand for cheap and get pretty consistent results after a fair amount of practice with it…which you’ll get if your shooting a lot to practice. Hornady Lock n Load single stage press kit is nice and great to learn on. Around $400.
Like mentioned, it’s a deep, deep hole and realistically it may not save you a lot of money if you start reloading multiple calibers because you start buying various powders, bullets, primers to try. It accumulates quickly.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

A lot of this comes down to your ammo budget. I will say that I have seen some cheaper ammo shoot good groups at 100 and then fall apart at distance.

When I bought my LMT 308 a bunch of people told me to shoot a lot of m80 for practice. Turns out 3 different LMT barrels I have all shoot lighter weight bullets like a shotgun. I spent a lot of time chasing my tail and having people tell me large frame semiautos are hard to shoot well. Switched to shooting federal gold medal match 175s and now that gun shoots 1 moa or better in some of the shittiest of weather.

The point of this is, you want to be able to work on your skills and not having to figure out whether your equipment or ammo is causing you to suck.

 

[straightshooter1]

Hello all!

I recently purchased my first long range rifle (MPA PMR Pro 6.5 Creedmoor) to get into PRS shooting and the occasional long-range shooting. I have been looking online to see how much ammo runs, i can find everything from Hornady Match ELD that runs around $2+ a round or Sellier & Bellot hat runs a little over $1.25 per round. My question is, since im am no pro and just getting into the sport, would anyone recommend that i buy the cheaper ammo so i can get more for more practice or does it make such a huge difference in the long range game that everyone use top notch rounds. Thanks. Any insight would be helpful.

​

As suggested, for you it's probably a good idea to just get some cheap ammo to actually break in you're barrel, which can take 100 to 150 rounds to do so. Then you might look at the better factory ammo . . . like that made by Berger.

For you to get a better feel as what to expect, the following website has excellent articles that can help you decide what you might want to get (of course, depending on what's available to you these days):

6.5 Creedmoor Ammo Test Summary: Hit Probability At Long-Range

Choosing the right ammo can dramatically increase your odds of connecting with a target at long ran...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[GreenGO Juan]

I would seek training so you can build ground up good fundamentals. There are training tutorials on this site and people who are instructors that teach classes, the owner of this site for instance. You would likely get more out of that than any thing.

The only way to know which ammo works, is trying different ones. Trial and error. Maybe contact the manufacture, see if they have a recommendation. Generally match ammo will shoot more consistently. Edit( as mentioned you don’t want to be chasing your tail because you’re shooting shitty ammo, you can’t run pump gas through an engine design to run on methanol )

As far as reloading, you do not need to spend a ton of money to make good ammo. The key to accuracy, is consistency in your process after figuring out what works, where thousandth of an inch makes a difference. Again, getting training from knowledgeable people will speed this process.

I started handloading about a year ago. shot this today with an $80 single stage press with the charge weighted on a $30 digital scale.

 

[hafejd30]

Buy good ammo when your ready to truly get serious about shooting. Not hitting your target or being able to consistently hold moa at any distance doesn’t help improve your confidence or familiarity with positions, follow up, accuracy etc. Missing constantly will only frustrate you won’t tell you if your improving. Remove the equipment from being the reason you can’t hit a 1 moa target from the get go

If you want cheap practice dry fire. Otherwise for precision rifles shoot precision ammo. For handgun and banging AR’s at steel I’ll cheap out a bit

If you want to reload then buy whatever and just consider it an investment for the brass. But not all brass is equal and Lapua brass is a better investment than federal or hornady once fired

If you do plan to be competitive you’ll be reloading. Starting with good components with a gun you know shoots well will save a lot of $ and grief in the long run

That’s my $.02 from someone who started with cheap factory .223 ammo in a savage model 12. 15 years ago

By this I don’t necessarily mean don’t shoot cheap ammo. Just don’t shoot cheap ammo that doesn’t shoot well enough to do your setup and ambitions justice. If hornady whitetail shoots the same at 100 as hornady match ELD and that works then run it. But if you step on a 1,000 yard line the difference in match ammo will be apparent

 

[Tempest 455]

Otherwise for precision rifles shoot precision ammo.

This.

 

[OREGUN]

DO NOT BELIEVE THAT YOU NEED TO/MUST RELOAD TO BE COMPETITIVE AT PRS!!!! (ELR might be different)

This is as big a lie as “my gun shoots 1/4 Inch all day” or that “Wyoming is full”.

Hornady factory 6.5CM or 6CM or 6GT can and does win matches and will hit targets to 1200 yards with ease. So does Berger.

Buy the cheap stuff if you want to and PRACTICE on paper at 100 yards until you can shoot the rifle. At this point you will get more out of shooting live ammo at 100 yards than can possibly be gained from obsessing over what ammo to use or how to get in to reloading. While you are learning, open a box of ammo and shoot your best group…then use the rest of the box to practice shooting from all kinds of barricades and in weird positions. When your positional equals your best prone, you can ask yourself if better ammo would make your best prone group smaller. Then buy the expensive stuff for matches. Or, just buy the good stuff for everything but if your time-stressed positional group shooting isn’t hovering down around your prone group size, it’s not the arrow, it’s the Indian.

$1.50/ round for 6CM which is available all over. You can sell the brass and get the cost down to $1.20/round. $500 proof barrels. Burn them out and get a new one.

Reloading is a separate hobby entirely that is hugely expensive in its own right, takes a ton of time, requires some learning, and for LOTS people does absolutely nothing for their precision or accuracy that a box of good factory ammo wouldn’t do.

 

[BurtG]

If you want cheap practice dry fire. Otherwise for precision rifles shoot precision ammo. For handgun and banging AR’s at steel I’ll cheap out a bit

NOT BELIEVE THAT YOU NEED TO/MUST RELOAD TO BE COMPETITIVE AT PRS!!!! (ELR might be different)

This and this

American gunner shoots well. Hear good stuff about norma also

 

[hafejd30]

This is what’s so nice about the .22 trainers coming around more often. Cheap practice that can mimic longer ranges

 

[BurtG]

If you do plan to be competitive you’ll be reloading

Lol factory ammo isn’t holding back 99 percent of shooters. Heck I see more people at every match that would have been better off shooting factory ammo. Misfires , bullets jammed in rifling , etc

 

[db2000]

You can gain back some by reselling your 1x fired brass. So that should be a consideration also along with time savings on simply buying factory loads.

 

[BurtG]

Also I head lots of bad reports about thar s and b ammo. I’d use the norma soft points for $1 first

 

[hafejd30]

Lol factory ammo isn’t holding back 99 percent of shooters. Heck I see more people at every match that would have been better off shooting factory ammo. Misfires , bullets jammed in rifling , etc

Fair enough

I play in the Fclass and LR game mainly where most reload. Some go to extremes in consistency

The benefit of reloading is after the initial investment your cost per round is reduced a decent amount. So more shooting for same $$. Of course initial investment and time are a consideration

 

[BurtG]

play in the Fclass and LR game

Ahh yes reloading probably makes a bigger difference for a skilled shooter in those disciplines

I’m always thinking PRS

 

[hafejd30]

Ahh yes reloading probably makes a bigger difference for a skilled shooter in those disciplines

I’m always thinking PRS

Yup sorry for the confusion

That’s what makes these threads interesting. When someone asks a question everyone pictures themselves in their own environment, their discipline of shooting and their skill level when responding

 

[SporterII]

Try some Norma. Try some hornady. Get comfortable behind the rifle. Reloading, do not dive in. Find a mentor.

 

[LR1845]

I reloaded and shot a lot of matches from 2004 until 2020 took a 2 year break and sold all my gear.

I just recently(last couple months)got back into shooting and I will not be reloading…I doubt factory ammo will be holding me back in any tactical, positional and or prs type of match.

I shot my first come back match a couple of weeks ago in a 20-30mph wind with off and on snow and took 10th out of 18 shooters with only 40 rounds through a new rifle(pictured).
the group pictured is 5 at 100yds with the factory ammo pictured.

You do not need a 1/4” gun and do not need to reload to win prs, tactical matches.

 

[Baron23]

IMO, it’s not about considering competition that should be driving you just starting to shoot precision rifles.

My approach is to use the very best ammo I can (being what shoots best and moist consistent out of my rifle) to eliminate it, as much as possible, from the results on paper WHILE PRACTICING FUNDAMENTALS either from a bench, prone, or from props.

To the extent I can, I want results to be predicted on my shot execution. Otherwise, I have no way to eval my performance nor identify areas for needed improvement.

Just my view.

 

[BurtG]

very best ammo I can (being what shoots best and moist consistent ou

Ammo with high es sd can still shoot hood 100 yard groups.

So you don’t need to buy $75 copper creek to practice.

 

[Baron23]

Ammo with high es sd can still shoot hood 100 yard groups.

So you don’t need to buy $75 copper creek to practice.

Ah, not talking about Copper Creek and the like.

More like Berger, Fed, or Hornady match ammo versus cheap stufff.

And again, my thought is to eliminate the ammo as much as possible from the observed result.

And, I don’t believe I’ve said anything about 100 yds either

Cheers and joyous holidays to you and yours.

 

[SNK]

Thanks for all the replies! I went to my gun range and found boxes of Norma Golden Target Match 143gr for $23 a box. Picked up 200 rounds to get started. Has anyone used this ammo? Any good?

 

[BurtG]

Heard good things

 

[SporterII]

Burn em

 

[OREGUN]

And, I don’t believe I’ve said anything about 100 yds either

Well the really nice thing about practicing PRS type shooting at, say, 600 yards, is that you have a nice long list of reasons you might have missed and very little way to distinguish between them. It’s like the fast-pass line to being that guy who “gets fucked by the wind”, argues with the RO about the range to the target, and thinks he missed because has a bad load, bad dope, or a fortune cookie instead of a gamechanger.

 

[BurtG]

use the very best ammo I can (being what shoots best and moist consistent out of my rifle) to eliminate it, as much as possible, from the results on paper WHILE PRACTICING FUNDAMENTALS either from a bench, prone, or from props.

And again, my thought is to eliminate the ammo as much as possible from the observed result.

And, I don’t believe I’ve said anything about 100 yds either

 

[Baron23]

Well the really nice thing about practicing PRS type shooting at, say, 600 yards, is that you have a nice long list of reasons you might have missed and very little way to distinguish between them. It’s like the fast-pass line to being that guy who “gets fucked by the wind”, argues with the RO about the range to the target, and thinks he missed because has a bad load, bad dope, or a fortune cookie instead of a gamechanger.

I don’t have a lot of opportunity to shoot past 500 here is the socialist state of Maryland and it’s environs.

But I do get to shoot paper (splatters hot type targets) out to 400-500. And during a Frank/Marc clinic we shot grouos at 300 which seemed to be enough to open em up and show us our shot execution errors.

Now this one was at my cousin’s club in SE PA. 400 yards. I normally shoot 5 shot groups but when I saw this after 3 shots I chickened out! Haha. I was pretty sure I’d open it way the hell up if I shot more so it was more like take it and RUN. LOL

 

[straightshooter1]

Thanks for all the replies! I went to my gun range and found boxes of Norma Golden Target Match 143gr for $23 a box. Picked up 200 rounds to get started. Has anyone used this ammo? Any good?

They should work just fine. Just keep in mind that different factory ammo work well in different guns.

Come back and let us know how it's done for you.

 

[OREGUN]

I don’t have a lot of opportunity to shoot past 500 here is the socialist state of Maryland and it’s environs.

But I do get to shoot paper (splatters hot type targets) out to 400-500. And during a Frank/Marc clinic we shot grouos at 300 which seemed to be enough to open em up and show us our shot execution errors.

Now this one was at my cousin’s club in SE PA. 400 yards. I normally shoot 5 shot groups but when I saw this after 3 shots I chickened out! Haha. I was pretty sure I’d open it way the hell up if I shot more so it was more like take it and RUN. LOL

View attachment 8027910

That’s great shooting Baron! My point was more that depending on what kind of shooting you are doing, sometimes going long feels good but doesn’t teach you much unless you’re pretty experienced to begin with. Did you catch the Frank and Marc show in PA?

 

[Baron23]

That’s great shooting Baron! My point was more that depending on what kind of shooting you are doing, sometimes going long feels good but doesn’t teach you much unless you’re pretty experienced to begin with. Did you catch the Frank and Marc show in PA?

Yep, at Mifflin in PA w @GBMaryland, @Nik H and…oh, dang, can’t remember his handle to tag him Had a ball.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Hello all!

I recently purchased my first long range rifle (MPA PMR Pro 6.5 Creedmoor) to get into PRS shooting and the occasional long-range shooting. I have been looking online to see how much ammo runs, i can find everything from Hornady Match ELD that runs around $2+ a round or Sellier & Bellot hat runs a little over $1.25 per round. My question is, since im am no pro and just getting into the sport, would anyone recommend that i buy the cheaper ammo so i can get more for more practice or does it make such a huge difference in the long range game that everyone use top notch rounds. Thanks. Any insight would be helpful.

​

Stay away from the S&B. It's absolute garbage. I bought Into 2k rounds when it was .55 cpr. Wouldn't group for shit in my match rifle or tikka tac. All it's good for is breaking a barrel in.

This stuff the the absolute best deal out there in 6.5cm ammo. I just got 800 rounds to shoot a few matches early this season before I can get my reloading stuff set back up. This vendor is where I got it. You can sell the brass which makes this ammo dirt cheap to shoot.

Norma Precision 6.5 Creedmoor 143gr BTHP Match ammo 2723 FPS 2355 FT/LB 20/box

Norma Precision 6.5 Creedmoor 143gr BTHP Match ammo 2723 FPS 2355 FT/LB 20/box

www.aeammo.com

Shoot 6.5cm the first year and learn the sport. Then you can rebarrel into 6mm whatever and will see a big jump.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Yep, at Mifflin in PA w @GBMaryland, @Nik H and…oh, dang, can’t remember his handle to tag him Had a ball.

There is a 600 yard near galena on the shore and Bridgeville goes out to 1k but only open certain days.

 

[Nik H]

Yep, at Mifflin in PA w @GBMaryland, @Nik H and…oh, dang, can’t remember his handle to tag him Had a ball.

Had a blast during he day and during the night…that said

Paper don’t lie…

I shoot 6x5s a lot since I don’t have a longer range than 500 yards here in New England. Always shoot 5 for improving consistency. Keep track of min and average. I also record the cartridge used and environmental conditions

I shoot a lot of rimfire at 200 yards on windy days as well. Taught me a lot about the wind

There‘s always a solution for effective training without having access to a 1000 yard range.

 

[LR1845]

i just ordered 220 rounds ill post back when i get and test them....hard to beat at $1.15 a round...if is shoots 3/4" or so ill be happy and buying more.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

You can buy A TON of good ammo for what it cost to reload in a timely manner. If you aren't going to shoot 2000 rounds a year, just buy good ammo and shoot. You "can" reload with basic stuff but unless you're retired, it's not worth it to do without at least some of the better equipment, just to save time. As has been said, reloading is an endlessly deep rabbit hole. That said, I wouldn't do it any other way, but you certainly can.

I make my reloads which are excellent, and the cost per round (not considering the thousands in equipment) is about $ .90/ round, assuming I reload the brass at least 10 times, which is very easy to do. So, it "saves" me about $.60/rnd. Of course I probably have 4k in reloading gear too.... and I have to spend d that time loading to make the ammo. It may not be worth it for you, but then again you might want to.

 

[GBMaryland]

I have to agree about the S&B ammo…. It’s good for blinking, but it’s not good if you’re looking for outstanding accuracy.

Somewhere, I have a bunch of chronograph that data on it, and due to the inconsistency of the brass, it tends to be much worse than most factory American ammo.

Using exactly the same procedure for reloading the cases as I did with the S&B I was able to get a 0 SD on a four shot test lot using Norma cases. When I shot 20 rounds with the norma cases I got a 9 SD.

The S&B had an SD around 35. The only variation being the differences in the cases.

Given that I have so much Hornady brass I threw all the S&B brass away. (don’t get me wrong, if I were loading for a 6.5 machine gun I would definitely use the S&B brass as it’s unbelievably heavy, and seems to be fairly durable.…)

(One of my other concerns about the Serbian ammo is that I’m a little concerned that it might have abrasive gunpowder like what we seen with Russian ammo… granted I have no actual proof that that would be the case but they’re trying to put out the least expensive product they can, and that’s what leads me to think that the anti-wear additives and things like that won’t exist.)

 

[Taylorbok]

I looked at some pricing, a pretty decent reloading set up that will allow you to build ammo at a decent enough pace and accuracy would be about $1100 if you needed to save some cash could drop it down to about $700 but won't be nearly as fast.
I looked at my reloading set up and I have over 4k into it. (that's not counting any of the stuff sitting in a box that I am supposed to sell to a buddy)

 

[hseII]

Thank you, what would you say it would cost on average to get a reloading press along with all associated components that would be needed, not including powder, brass, or bullets. How much on average would a round then cost me to make? how big of a difference is it?

$1,100-1500 all in for everything depending on which dies & what powder scale you pick: that’s for 1 cartridge.

Then it’s only the different components & dies going forward.

 

[Near miss]

-Get both bulk and precision ammo.
-See how the gun likes them, bulk could/should do .7 to 1.5moa and precision ammo below 1moa.
-test other ammo if you see room for improvement.

-shoot the bulk ammo most and keep track of your shooting skills by doing 5 or 10 shot groups with the match ammo every or every second range trip. Document them and their location. (Track the zero). Recognize your fliers and study your groups, then try to debug what causes the problems. Bulk ammo can cover up too many shooter failures under the big radius to be used as a diagnostic tool.

-SB ammo can run well but they have lot differences. If something runs well, stack it deep. They use mostly lovex powders (shooters world?) to my knowledge and it is good stuff. My friends T3 Tac shoots the SB 140ish gr fmj really well.

-Keep in mind that it is likely you will some day reload those cases you now shoot. So also there brand loyalty and lot consistency helps.

-Reloading costs a lot but I like building my own ammo and it really cuts down the costs down the road.

I have reloaded 2K precision 223 ammo this year and started reloading in February.
I have thousands of cases prepped ready.
I have a feeling my barrel is near final so I am not going to start bulk loading until I break in the next one but reloading does allow great flexibility.

At the moment I have 1300 spent on the kit and 5k on materials which most are unspent.
My rounds cost 65 to 75 cents to make (24% sales tax) and at shop they cost 1.2 to 1.4 at minimum at the moment and availability is bad.

So after a little under 3K ammo is done, my equipment has paid for itself. I guess my next item is automatic powder dispenser, maybe. 223 ammo is quite sensitive to small powder variations.

 

[culater]

Thank you, what would you say it would cost on average to get a reloading press along with all associated components that would be needed, not including powder, brass, or bullets. How much on average would a round then cost me to make? how big of a difference is it?

We are all recoving reloading addicts here. Once you start you'll never be the same person. The only know cure is to keep pulling down on the lever on the press. It's better than the Casino slot machine. When I pull down on my press I win every time. I get shiny ammo in my bucket

Yes you can see the difference when you do mass loading and have consistently in from lot to lot in you loading.

 

[DairyDictator]

TLDR; Eliminate as many variables as possible and you'll always learn more than if you hadn't. Reloading for competition really isn't about cost savings, it's more about control.

I look at ammo the same as equipment and props. Crappy gear will absolutely overshadow shooter issues and inhibit learning. Missing targets tells you a lot less if you can't have complete confidence in your gear and ammo. Why did you miss that 1 MOA target? Was it something you did (wind call, position, trigger pull, etc) or was it equipment related? Turns out that nice 1/2 MOA group you can pull together once in a while with hornady american gunner or S&B FMJ ammo has a velocity spread of 50-100fps which matters a lot more past 300. If it's not in the budget then compromises might have to be made.

Eliminate as many variables as possible and you'll always learn more than if you hadn't.

As far as reloading, it's not something I really enjoy doing. I end up at around $0.70 cpr not including any brass costs, but I don't really track what my cost is because it's not the point for me. I have thousands of dollars worth of reloading equipment to speed up the process and churn out very consistent ammo to my liking. Did I save any money? No probably not yet. Will I ever? No probably not. I'm going to keep buying expensive products to shorten the time it takes me to load and increase my consistency. Shooting time and family time are much more important to me than loading time, so if I have to spend money so I can spend less time loading so be it.

The point of reloading for me is that I get full control over everything. I get to choose what bullet I shoot at what velocity, meaning I control how much time of flight I have on most engagements which translates into seeing impacts and misses more often. I get to choose what compromises to make and where. The problem with factory ammo is that it takes all of that choice away because the decision is already made for you. 60% of the time, I'm not satisfied with the choices that were made. I don't hunt. I want every possible advantage I can get to give me the best chance at maximizing my score at my current skill level in competition. Example: Hornady 6GT factory ammo is great ammo. Shoots sub half MOA consistently and has single digit SD's with a good bullet. Absolutely capable of winning any PRS match out there. They run 2900 fps plus. That bullet gets to the target slightly faster than I want it to. I now have less time to reacquire the target and see impacts. Sure, you get better ballistic performance but I don't think that's really an advantage for the game I play. If I ran that ammo however, that's what I'd be stuck with.

 

[BurtG]

ce 1/2 MOA group you can pull together once in a while with hornady american gunner or S&B FMJ

Put those 2 in the same sentence ?

 

[DairyDictator]

Put those 2 in the same sentence ?

View attachment 8028638

Even with steel cased garbage you can find 3/100 rounds to go in a similar spot. Blind squirrel, nut once in a while, broken clock right twice a day, you get the idea lol

 

[BurtG]

I’m just saying American gunner is near mafch grade. S and b is known dog shit

When I started shooting matches last year I got accused of reloading shooting American gunner lol

 

[Downzero]

You are wasting both money and bore life shooting factory ammunition.

 

[GBMaryland]

Yeah, the American gunner shit is not bad.

 

[DairyDictator]

I've seen worse factory ammo than American Gunner but don't go putting a chronograph on it.... you probably won't like what you see.