Cleaned my lenses, now I think they’re ruined?

[Convex]

I think the fairly safe route is an 8 oz. bottle of Zeiss lens cleaner (which will last 4 years) and anti-static cloths for something fairly dirty, and carrying a dozen Zeiss wipes in UR pocket for anything the comes up, and if you've haven't done this a lot, a call to a reputable camera tech who knows that once U pay him he's taking on all the responsibility not to fuck up.

Nobody will clean a lens like a guy whose done it thousands of time and does it for a living, not even a guy with an "S" on his chest.


Actually Superman was minding his own business a couple of feet away on the same table so I reached over and put him in the shot.

These are the individually hand painted frame by frame "full animation" cartoons these folks went bankrupt producing in 1939 matched only by Walt Disneys "Fantasia".

 

[Baron23]

I should pick up some medical-grade acetone. Didn’t know that was a thing.

Is that any diff than just 100% acetone???

100% acetone - Google Search

 

[Baron23]

I’m going back to the tried and true MEK and 500 grit sandpaper

500 grit sandpaper....you pussy! haha

 

[carbonbased]

Is that any diff than just 100% acetone???

100% acetone - Google Search

Hell if I know!

Searching…

I see “reagent grade” and “lab grade” acetone out there. But then I checked in with the writings of good old Bill Cook. He writes on the second jpg I posted, under “Solution #3” point 3:

…special reagent acetone isn't called for;​

the hardware store (read: cheap) chemical will work fine.​

 

[carbonbased]

500 grit sandpaper....you pussy! haha

Pshaw! I just use my industrial laser to “freshen up” my lenses and…Crikey! I just accidentally etched an image of my bizarrely-shaped foot into the objective on my $8400 S&B!!!

I’m sure it’s a warranty repair.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Doesn’t help in this case, but a “sunshade” can help prevent the optic from getting dirty enough that it requires the owner to damage the lenses during cleaning. It can also keep rain off your objective. Between that and a scope cap, lenses can bet kept clean in pretty adverse conditions.

That's the only reason I use one

 

[Little_Fish]

Well this thread really has everything.

Personal opinions of enthusiastic DIYers.
Endless cross references to ”expert” opinions -not related to any manufacturer, let alone the one in question.
The manufacturer’s opinion.
Rebuttal to the manufacturer‘s opinion.
Reference to a hardness scale.
Some guy’s buddy who’s an optical engineer.
A listing of THE FACTS!
A picture of some guy’s toes.
A birdwatcher.

Now if we could just get someone to blame a commie or make a thinly veiled comment about how it’s the problem you get when you let THOSE people…….out of the inner city, we’d have SH perfection.

I’m going back to the tried and true MEK and 500 grit sandpaper before I loose my mind.

Love this. I'm just saying what happened to me and what Bushnell confirms. In my mind, the discrepancy between what the literature from Bushnell says (nothing with IPA) compared to what Vortex says (any optics cleaning solution) tells me that whatever Bushnell uses is different. If it can't handle IPA, it can't handle acetone. It might strip the lens of it's coating altogether leaving it clean, but this coating in particular is not impervious.

 

[Convex]

In other words, the coating is delicate, so if it were me after they take care of U, I wouldn't mess w/it.

Here's a link...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/756189-REG/B_W_1066123_67mm_Ultraviolet_UV_MC.html

Now this is a dynamite filter (Schott glass/Brass ring): verify it's coated on both sides. B4 U gag on the price, I linked U 2 these folks because they give the most detailed specs on the gear they sell. I believe U can get this filter for roughly $79.00 but watch out for fakes. An open box/like new filter I'd snap up in a hot second from a reputable seller.

The Chinese are getting better at producing fakes (it's kind of a shame they don't use that effort to produce good gear in the 1st place).

This filter will be a lot tougher/take a lot more abuse than the coating of UR optic.

I believe U can get similar filters from Hoya/Heliopan/Leica in brass w/hard tough coatings and I believe this particular filter has 99.8 % transmittance.

 

[Denys]

I leave the sunshade on my riflescopes at perpetuity. It's just a great way to protect the objective lens from the elements and other surprises. I do remove it for the occasional cleaning with a blower brush as stuff can accumulate.

I do not trust a filter on the riflescope as these items are not meant to be subjected to the continuous pounding of rifle fire; the filter could come apart or crack and cause more damage. Also, a filter on the eyepiece just scares the crap out of me.

March has this page where they discuss cleaning. They also discuss the three types of alcohol. They recommend anhydrous alcohol for cleaning.

How to clean the lenses of March Scopes | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

 

[Little_Fish]

In other words, the coating is delicate, so if it were me after they take care of U, I wouldn't mess w/it.

Here's a link...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/756189-REG/B_W_1066123_67mm_Ultraviolet_UV_MC.html

Now this is a dynamite filter (Schott glass/Brass ring): verify it's coated on both sides. B4 U gag on the price, I linked U 2 these folks because they give the most detailed specs on the gear they sell. I believe U can get this filter for roughly $79.00 but watch out for fakes. An open box/like new filter I'd snap up in a hot second from a reputable seller.

The Chinese are getting better at producing fakes (it's kind of a shame they don't use that effort to produce good gear in the 1st place).

This filter will be a lot tougher/take a lot more abuse than the coating of UR optic.

I believe U can get similar filters from Hoya/Heliopan/Leica in brass w/hard tough coatings and I believe this particular filter has 99.8 % transmittance.

Distilled water for me going forward from here for sure. I did order a cheap filter from Amazon for now just to have for when the new scope comes in while I research what’s best. Brass because dissimilar metals will eventually cause the aluminum to seize right?

I leave the sunshade on my riflescopes at perpetuity. It's just a great way to protect the objective lens from the elements and other surprises. I do remove it for the occasional cleaning with a blower brush as stuff can accumulate.

I do not trust a filter on the riflescope as these items are not meant to be subjected to the continuous pounding of rifle fire; the filter could come apart or crack and cause more damage. Also, a filter on the eyepiece just scares the crap out of me.

March has this page where they discuss cleaning. They also discuss the three types of alcohol. They recommend anhydrous alcohol for cleaning.

How to clean the lenses of March Scopes | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

I always kept the sunshade on this optic, but somehow crud made its way in there regardless. It isn’t that long of a shade though, maybe 2” where other scopes I have are close to double that.

 

[Fret]

Don't know if I would want a scope with a coating so delicate. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Convex]

I do not trust a filter on the riflescope as these items are not meant to be subjected to the continuous pounding of rifle fire; the filter could come apart or crack and cause more damage. Also, a filter on the eyepiece just scares the crap out of me.

I'm going to have to disagree w/my friend Denys although I'll restate everybody has a right to make their own call.

As far as stuff coming apart, read it here on SH about scopes coming apart by themselves,

The better made filters w/Schott glass and seated in brass by B+W or Heliopan are made very well w/stringent QC, and I believe better than most of these sunshades which are mostly aluminum and in my opinion flimsy in comparison to a well made filter made out of brass.



How many of these sunshades made out of aluminum pop off a scope under recoil if they're on snug.

I shot plenty of rounds w/the OEM plastic clear covers (front and back) still on my Aimpoint H-2, nothing-no problem, and they're nowhere near as well made as my filters.

They're not screwed on, they're "flip-ups" w/snap into place. Recoil has never snapped either one of them loose.



If UR talking about cheap Chinese filters made w/window glass, where U can shake/rattle the glass because it's not flush in the cheapest aluminum they can find, I'd defer to Deny's logic.

The filters on my March are on it to stay, they're made out of brass, they're on snug and they not coming off.

I've got an optic valued @ xx,xxx I bought years ago which I don't take on location anymore, I just shoot in the studio whenever I use it and the front of that lens was saved any damage from an accident which cracked the filter that saved it, a sacrifice that for me justifies my system because the optic isn't made any more and re an accident, I'd rather have this lens than the insurance money.

Having a "sacrificial" fiter on a priceless optic has already saved me and having them on my March doesn't scare me.


In answer to Little Fish

The better filters use Schott glass, and a brass ring, which you don't need to overtighten to keep it snug, but if you happen to get it too tight, it won't seize. Cheap/Chinese filters use window glass, the cheapest aluminum w/almost no quality control and can come apart in your hand let alone having it mounted on anything,

Yes, I'd rec a B+W, Heliopan, or a top tier Hoya to protect the front of your scope. because I think the advantages outweigh the risks w/the delicate coating you have on that lens.

To be fair Denys does have a point about things coming apart under recoil, then again, if U peruse some of these discussions some of these scopes have come apart so yes, anything made by humans can malfunction/come apart.

I know how to clean glass elements, but if I had UR scope I wouldn't risk/bother touching it, I'd buy the filter if I were in UR shoes.

B+W and Heliopan filters are made in Germany

 

[Rust]

Since I do fair amount of photography and lenses were never cheap, I always added a UV filter over the lens, a lot cheaper to replace than a good lens let alone a prime lens. Once I got into expensive scopes I did the same thing, putting a UV lens on the scopes which I view as cheap insurance. It keeps any possible grit or mud off the scope lens. I pretty much only use alcohol to clean lenses as any little bit left evaporates rapidly unlike water.

 

[shoobe01]

Same as @Rust for sacrifical lenses on most everything. I have smashed sac lenses on cameras, happy I didn't smash the camera. Well, those times

So my high dollar stuff, say night vision, always has front and rear covers. Wish I could get the same for thermal even with the cost that germanium would be.


I have very specific thoughts on lens cleaning, and have too much experience as I've had to clean badly-used and neglected things like whole piles of NODs with actual chunks on the lenses. Posted it a few places and everyone liked it but looking at this thread, meh.

 

[wooferocau]

Don't know if I would want a scope with a coating so delicate. Doesn't make sense.

Absolutely!!!

 

[db2000]

Tagging in. I’m interested in seeing what Bushnell will say.

Fuck the guy I spoke to at Bushnell.
He charged me $30 or $35 for a 0.75” aluminum screw basically (throw lever) to replace on a scope I bought in the PX. I realize it’s not their responsibility to replace missing parts BUT that’s horrible customer service IMO. I’m sure it’s a $0.50 part.
So any chance I get, I’ll beat the dead horse like Baffert.

 

[carbonbased]

So, Mr. Bill Cook has kindly gotten back to me about my query about S&B’s warning about “acetone, thinners, petrol” used as cleaning agents on their lenses.

Remember that S&B USA itself uses acetone all of the time, as I reported earlier after speaking to them.

Bill wrote, unsurprisingly, this me this (lightly edited to remove some superfluous bits):

I have probably used 3 or 4 bathtubs of acetone on more than 12,000 binoculars and can tell you I have NEVER mentioned the realities of lens cleaning without being taken to task by those who would like their opinion—usually formulated on hearsay—promoted to fact.​

​

So, let me offer a few facts of my own.​

​

1. Magnesium Fluoride has a hardness of 575 on the Knoop hardness scale Vs. 520 for Bk7 glass. Thus if AR coatings are APPLIED AT THE RIGHT TEMPEREATURE acetone will not do any harm. Having repaired and collimated more binoculars than many of those EXPERTS have ever seen in a warehouse—using acetone on each—I can verify that is true.​

​

2. The US Navy—The little company that developed the techniques for binocular collimation—provided gallons of acetone to their OPTICALMAN personnel. (Ed.– Bill was an opticalman in the navy)​

​

3. One member of BirdForum used to work for Lawrence Livermore Labs and has verified that they use acetone for cleaning their optics.​

​

4. Al Nagler, NASA optical engineer and creator of Tele Vue Instruments has used acetone to clean optics throughout his career. Speaking with his son David, I learned that they suggest customers use reagent grade acetone on their optics, BUT they use whatever grade is handy!​

​

5. The list could go on.​

​

So, he seems not swayed by the lawyer-speak on the S&B lens cleaning page. Neither am I, and neither is the tech dept of S&B USA itself.

I mean look guys, he has five books on optics to his name and have you looked at his LinkedIn profile yet?

For the lazy, here is an abbreviated copy/paste:

Optical, Night-Vision, Alignment & Thermal Imaging Instrument Repair and Calibration Specialist 
​

Department of The Army 
​

Joint Base Lewis-McChord 
​

​

Quality Assurance 
​

Joint Base Lewis McChord 
​


Ft. Lewis, WA 98271 
​

Calibration Specialist for Aiming Circles and Night-Vision Gear​

​

Manager (21 years), Precision Instruments & Optics​

Captain's Nautical Supplies​

Provided Optical Repair, Restoration, Consulting, and/or Engineering for NASA, the Smithsonian Institution, the University of Chicago, the US Navy, Coast Guard, NOAA, and Merchant Marine​

​

Chief Opticalman (Shop Supervisor) SIMA, San Diego 
​

Department of The Navy 
​

San Diego, CA 
​

Selected to Supervise junior enlisted members in the Repair, Calibration, and Collimation of Opto-Navigational and Alignment Instruments​

Etc.

I am guessing Bushnell has a batch of scopes that they know the coatings were not applied correctly.

It pains me to write the following because I know what those who treat lenses like gemstones will do. Bill did not comment specifically on why S&B’s would write such a thing. I have followed up and will report back if I receive an answer.

“Ha!” the ultra-cautious will say. “I will continue to use my distilled glacier water from Antartica that has been poured over the heaving breasts of five Vestal Virgins and blessed by the Holy See.”

Some just like arguing with (metaphorical) rocket scientists, apparently (i.e. Bill Cook).

Anyway, something to do with cleaning expensive lenses always brings out the inner cautious weirdo in people (myself included). I have broken free, mostly.

Perhaps you can too.

 

[carbonbased]

Some guy’s buddy who’s an optical engineer.

Just noticed this. If pointed at me, I do not know Bill Cook from Jo Mamma.

 

[Convex]

“Ha!” the ultra-cautious will say. “I will continue to use my distilled glacier water from Antartica that has been poured over the breasts of five Vestal Virgins and blessed by the Holy See.”

My Wife prefers Champagne.

.... and she sure has my blessing.

 

[OREGUN]

Just noticed this. If pointed at me, I do not know Bill Cook from Jo Mamma.

It was more of a general comment. Every thread has expert opinion from some guy’s cousin who knows a spacetronaught.

 

[OREGUN]

Odd that we would not just follow the manufacturers guidelines. Who cares what even an expert in the field has to say. He didn’t build your scope.

ZCO says DI water.
TT says acetone or isopropyl alcohol
Interestingly, Bushnell has different recommendations depending on whether it’s a scope, binos, or a spotting scope. Binos get a lens cleaning solution, scopes get nothing other than air and breath fog, and spotters get cleaning solution, lens tissue OR isopropyl alcohol.
Vortex is a little ambiguous saying that products design per for coated optical lenses are ok but then only provides guidance for using breath fog.

Interestingly, TT is the only one who even mentions acetone.

 

[wooferocau]

Just noticed this. If pointed at me, I do not know Bill Cook from Jo Mamma.

It was aimed at me...

 

[OREGUN]

It was aimed at me...

Everyone contributes to SH in their own special way. You did show your toes….

 

[carbonbased]

It pains me to write the following because I know what the those who treat lenses like gemstones will do. Bill did not comment specifically on why S&B’s would write such a thing. I have followed up and will report back if I receive an answer.

Bill Cook did get back to me on this subject. In short, he does not venture a guess as to why, in their cleaning kit, S&B would say not to use acetone on their scopes while their own techs use it in the repair room.

I’ll leave you with a quote from him:

“I learned a very long time ago, that my 50 years of working with binoculars and other optics, and cleaning them, cannot hold a candle to an idiot with an opinion.​

​

I have tried so hard to straighten the path of understanding. But I have not, cannot, and never will.”​

 

[Gohring65]

Fuck the guy I spoke to at Bushnell.
He charged me $30 or $35 for a 0.75” aluminum screw basically (throw lever) to replace on a scope I bought in the PX. I realize it’s not their responsibility to replace missing parts BUT that’s horrible customer service IMO. I’m sure it’s a $0.50 part.
So any chance I get, I’ll beat the dead horse like Baffert.

I had some suspicion about their service. I tagged this post because I honestly wasn’t expecting it to go the OPs way. I’ve heard bushy doesn’t go out of their way to help the customer on items they don’t necessarily have to. In their defense, it’s been a few years since I read that.

 

[Little_Fish]

I had some suspicion about their service. I tagged this post because I honestly wasn’t expecting it to go the OPs way. I’ve heard bushy doesn’t go out of their way to help the customer on items they don’t necessarily have to. In their defense, it’s been a few years since I read that.

To be honest I had the same concern when choosing this scope over a bigger name brand in the industry. It does seem though, at least with this new tactical line of scopes they’re really trying to compete with the bigger names including a warranty that is transferable to the next owner without any receipts or anything. For the price I do think this scope was a great value.

 

[Tictacticaltimmy]

Glad to hear Bushnell is doing right by OP.

My own experience with Bushnell CS has pretty well guarenteed I will never buy one of their optics in the future.

 

[Denys]

About the use of filters. @Convex explains his position very well and as he said, everyone can make their own call.

As a long-time photographer, I went through phases when I would have skylight/UV filters on all lenses, and other times when they would all me removed. Currently all my lenses are without filters BUT... If I go into a situation where I know there can be stuff flying around, such as a beach, I will put a UV filter on the lens for protection. (Salt water, sand, etc.)

I recently decided to put a quality filter on my Kowa 883 to protect the objective since the sunshade retracts easily. I use the spotter from position and there can be stuff flying around on some firing lines. A spotter does not endure the pounding that a riflescope experiences.

I still caution against the use of filters on riflescopes. That will remain so until I find a filter that is guaranteed by the manufacturer to be suitable for use on riflescopes. And finally, consider that by using one or more filters, you are altering the optical path of the riflescope by adding these pieces of glass.

 

[Convex]

And finally, consider that by using one or more filters, you are altering the optical path of the riflescope by adding these pieces of glass.

I can certainly see how cheap/Chinese filters using window glass and aluminum rings not machined to exact tolerances would do this.

If Schott glass is used (there is other glass that's very good) where the front and back surface of the glass filter is plano-parallel to each other along w/the glass itself being plano-parallel to the front element/front objective after the filter is screwed on/seated in its final position by way of a brass ring that's been machined to insure that, I don't see it, so I'm having trouble understanding how the filter would alter the centerline optical axis of the optic behind it if it's machined right.

I certainly understand the proposition of some anti-reflective coating doing something weird; also using clear glass/window glass,or putting a filter w/the clear portion made out of plastic in front of a glass optic would probably fuck something up optically.

B+W, Heliopan, Hoya, Leica, Nikon and whoever I'm leaving out re the best optical filters, test for all this which is why you can use one of these in front of a 5 grand lens w/little or no artifacts, and whatever residual effects which are @ best negligible.

In fact many of the above include their performance/test results for individual filters.

I understand and totally accept U have a different "path" to follow w/UR gear, and I 100% agree that every time U add a piece of glass to anything there will be a difference (the link to the filter I suggested to "Little Fish" is @ 99.8 transmittance) I suggest that w/the best filters, that difference is negligible @ least 4 me.

I do agree that we disagree but then again this is like discussing your wife, U got yours, and I got mine, if we're both happy w/what we got then the "joker is wild".

 

[shoobe01]

One of the times I broke the filter and would have broken the lens was inside a children's museum. Trying to keep up with the kid, hit my head on a low door (in an old factory so the header was an I-beam) and fully saw stars, next thing I am on the floor.

That is not a place I'd consider to be dangerous, so if I was like that would have gone low-protection but instead it's the whole point of insurance (or carrying): you never know. Mitigate risk.

 

[kwityurbeachn]

I clean lenses on fiber optic fusion machines my techs use often. As it is electronics I cannot use water. Blow off dust and debree. With 99% alcohol soak microfiber swab or cotton and pat spots on lense to soak for a few seconds. I repeat over and over just dabbing up debree with new swabs. As we are arcing/welding the glass gunk gets cooked on lenses. So am removing that material without scrubbing. Once gunk is removed and zero dust is on the lense I will then use a fresh swab with 99% alcohol in a light circular motion to polish the lense. Key is to remember to frequently toss the swabs. This needs to be done indoors away from dirt, sand and pollen. Before puttin any chemical on your lense consult the Manufacturer.