Not talking long-range prone shooting, but looking for preferences on combat shooting between 50-300 meters. Do you like a red dot, no magnification or circle dot or similar reticle style with some magnification. If you were topping off an AR or other short-barrled gas-gun what would you use?
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Rifle Scopes Combat shooting optics
- Thread starter Dark Horse
- Start date
Re: Combat shooting optics
I use Eotechs and NF 2.5x10 both work extremely well for me. I personally like the Eotech circle with the dot in the middle.
I use Eotechs and NF 2.5x10 both work extremely well for me. I personally like the Eotech circle with the dot in the middle.
Re: Combat shooting optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use Eotechs and NF 2.5x10 both work extremely well for me. I personally like the Eotech circle with the dot in the middle. </div></div>
Do you feel it is easier to aquire, hold on target and shoot with the Eotech or NF at longer distances.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use Eotechs and NF 2.5x10 both work extremely well for me. I personally like the Eotech circle with the dot in the middle. </div></div>
Do you feel it is easier to aquire, hold on target and shoot with the Eotech or NF at longer distances.
Re: Combat shooting optics
The EOtech XPS line has a lot of versatility, but I've always been partial to reflex sights. Not to mention for the cost of a SN-4 you can also get a 3x Flip Sight.
Honestly, i just held onto my old M68 as long as I could.
The EOtech XPS line has a lot of versatility, but I've always been partial to reflex sights. Not to mention for the cost of a SN-4 you can also get a 3x Flip Sight.
Honestly, i just held onto my old M68 as long as I could.
Re: Combat shooting optics
So many choices!
Probably the ultimate choice is the S&B Short Dot.
However, the NF 1-4x24 is just about as nice and about 1/2 the price!
I like the Elcan Spectre DR for 3-gun type shooting. It quickly goes from an Aimpoint-like 1x to a 4x with the flip of a lever. They are heavy (good glass is) and expensive if you can find one. The NF scope is just as versatile, but it takes just a bit longer to change the power.
This article by Zak Smith is another place to look: http://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-short-guide/
Or keep trying different ones. I've got about 6 AR's, all with different optics! When I find one I really like, I guess I'll have to change them all to be the same!
So many choices!
Probably the ultimate choice is the S&B Short Dot.
However, the NF 1-4x24 is just about as nice and about 1/2 the price!
I like the Elcan Spectre DR for 3-gun type shooting. It quickly goes from an Aimpoint-like 1x to a 4x with the flip of a lever. They are heavy (good glass is) and expensive if you can find one. The NF scope is just as versatile, but it takes just a bit longer to change the power.
This article by Zak Smith is another place to look: http://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-short-guide/
Or keep trying different ones. I've got about 6 AR's, all with different optics! When I find one I really like, I guess I'll have to change them all to be the same!
Re: Combat shooting optics
I have a 18.5" M14 with USO 1.5-6 and think its a great battle rifle out to 600 meters, it is a bit heavy and hard to hold the optics on target so I am considering something a little more compact for shorter ranges, just trying to get a feel for what's out there.
I have a 18.5" M14 with USO 1.5-6 and think its a great battle rifle out to 600 meters, it is a bit heavy and hard to hold the optics on target so I am considering something a little more compact for shorter ranges, just trying to get a feel for what's out there.
Re: Combat shooting optics
Said it before- go and look at what the guys shooting IPSC open class rifle are using. When their is money on the line you will see what works.
Mostly see 1-4 or 1.5-5 illuminated reticule type scopes - or aimpoints with magnifier. Many mount a mini red dot at 45 deg for close in shooting- I dislike the idea personally, but oh boy do they make it work!
Never yet seen an eotech in the top 10...
Said it before- go and look at what the guys shooting IPSC open class rifle are using. When their is money on the line you will see what works.
Mostly see 1-4 or 1.5-5 illuminated reticule type scopes - or aimpoints with magnifier. Many mount a mini red dot at 45 deg for close in shooting- I dislike the idea personally, but oh boy do they make it work!
Never yet seen an eotech in the top 10...
Re: Combat shooting optics
Acog,lupy cqt,or red dot with magnifier. Acog w/mini red dot is pretty nice. Red dots with flip to side magnifiers are nice,but the dot gets distorted with mag on some models.There is lots of nice stuff out there you really just have to see what you like by useing them all.
Acog,lupy cqt,or red dot with magnifier. Acog w/mini red dot is pretty nice. Red dots with flip to side magnifiers are nice,but the dot gets distorted with mag on some models.There is lots of nice stuff out there you really just have to see what you like by useing them all.
Re: Combat shooting optics
Aimpoint M2 for me.
Learn to drive it and it works just fine from contact to 300.
Aimpoint M2 for me.
Learn to drive it and it works just fine from contact to 300.
Re: Combat shooting optics
Once you try one of the do all CQ mid range 1-4 or 1.5-5 scopes you will love it.
Here is an excellent thread link to read on these scopes.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=104
Meopta
Trijicon Accupoint
Burris XTR
USO SN-4
Horus Talon
S&B Short Dot
<span style="font-weight: bold">Good & Lower Cost</span>
Millett DMS-1
Konus M30 1-4X24
GC
Once you try one of the do all CQ mid range 1-4 or 1.5-5 scopes you will love it.
Here is an excellent thread link to read on these scopes.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=104
Meopta
Trijicon Accupoint
Burris XTR
USO SN-4
Horus Talon
S&B Short Dot
<span style="font-weight: bold">Good & Lower Cost</span>
Millett DMS-1
Konus M30 1-4X24
GC
Re: Combat shooting optics
Dark Horse,IMO,
Yes,the USO is a little heavier than some of the other 1-4,1.5-6 type scopes but I wish I had one on my AR-15 carbine!Because it's a tuff scope and worth putting up with the extra weight.
I don't mind 1.5X for as close as 15 feet but I think the 4.5X is a bit too small for medium range on small targets.
I have a cheap Bushy 1.5-4.5 mounted on the carbine most of the time and at 300 yards the crosshairs are 3 inches across at 4.5X.When I put them on my MGM mini popper which is 4 inches across it almost covers the whole target.
Then when I take one of my other rifles out and put the setting on 6x at 300 yards the mini popper seems 3 times the size as compared to the Bushy on 4.5X.I like being able to see the target well.
Out of all the scopes on the market for a carbine,I'd choose your scope.
Steve
Dark Horse,IMO,
Yes,the USO is a little heavier than some of the other 1-4,1.5-6 type scopes but I wish I had one on my AR-15 carbine!Because it's a tuff scope and worth putting up with the extra weight.
I don't mind 1.5X for as close as 15 feet but I think the 4.5X is a bit too small for medium range on small targets.
I have a cheap Bushy 1.5-4.5 mounted on the carbine most of the time and at 300 yards the crosshairs are 3 inches across at 4.5X.When I put them on my MGM mini popper which is 4 inches across it almost covers the whole target.
Then when I take one of my other rifles out and put the setting on 6x at 300 yards the mini popper seems 3 times the size as compared to the Bushy on 4.5X.I like being able to see the target well.
Out of all the scopes on the market for a carbine,I'd choose your scope.
Steve
Re: Combat shooting optics
i love the acog and the eotech and the aimpoint. al are great but the best of those is the acog. i just bought a uso 1.8-10 i am gonna try on my 6.8 for anything upclose the 1.8 should be fine and for any type of distance the 10x should work great. i am not sure how heavy it is yet as i don't have it but it should be here soon and i can't wait. i think whatever scope you shoot and practice w/ the most is gonna be the best. and for each person alot of times its different just check them out and pick what works for you
i love the acog and the eotech and the aimpoint. al are great but the best of those is the acog. i just bought a uso 1.8-10 i am gonna try on my 6.8 for anything upclose the 1.8 should be fine and for any type of distance the 10x should work great. i am not sure how heavy it is yet as i don't have it but it should be here soon and i can't wait. i think whatever scope you shoot and practice w/ the most is gonna be the best. and for each person alot of times its different just check them out and pick what works for you
Re: Combat shooting optics
Steve, sorry I should have been a little more clear. The entire rifle setup is a little on the heavy side. I love the scope, but if I decided to go lighter on the rifle and do an AR, I probably would use a sight designed more around CQ instead of the heavier USO. I should weigh the gun, but I wouldn't be surprised if it came in around 13lbs loaded up. A little too heavy and bulky to go from room to room. From 50-600 meters that setup kicks ass. I'm also considering a modified Socom 16 just for magazine and parts interchangeability.
As for the USO mounted on an AR, Im up in the air about it. I would much rather have a .308 to take advantage of that useable power range...just never felt comfortable with the .223 as a stopper at 600, don't have any real-world experience to back it up, just my gut.
Steve, sorry I should have been a little more clear. The entire rifle setup is a little on the heavy side. I love the scope, but if I decided to go lighter on the rifle and do an AR, I probably would use a sight designed more around CQ instead of the heavier USO. I should weigh the gun, but I wouldn't be surprised if it came in around 13lbs loaded up. A little too heavy and bulky to go from room to room. From 50-600 meters that setup kicks ass. I'm also considering a modified Socom 16 just for magazine and parts interchangeability.
As for the USO mounted on an AR, Im up in the air about it. I would much rather have a .308 to take advantage of that useable power range...just never felt comfortable with the .223 as a stopper at 600, don't have any real-world experience to back it up, just my gut.
Re: Combat shooting optics
Not sure if this helps but its from another forum. There is some good info here.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=346233
Not sure if this helps but its from another forum. There is some good info here.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=346233
Re: Combat shooting optics
I run an Aimpoint & IOR M2 w/ Druganov reticle on my Bushy 20" Hbar... Has worked like a cgarm for everthing from 25 - 600 yards.... Do also like the ACOG w/ DR on top too!
I run an Aimpoint & IOR M2 w/ Druganov reticle on my Bushy 20" Hbar... Has worked like a cgarm for everthing from 25 - 600 yards.... Do also like the ACOG w/ DR on top too!
Re: Combat shooting optics
If I had some more practice I think the RCO or ACOG would be great. I'm currently using it for the first time for rifle qual this week. I don't like it beyond 300 yards so far due to Kentucky windage but up close its an awesome sight. I'm thinking about buying one for my personal AR even.
If I had some more practice I think the RCO or ACOG would be great. I'm currently using it for the first time for rifle qual this week. I don't like it beyond 300 yards so far due to Kentucky windage but up close its an awesome sight. I'm thinking about buying one for my personal AR even.
Re: Combat shooting optics
I recommend the meopta 1-4x kdot for what u want. Have been using one for 3 yrs in 3 gun competition and it is awesome. Day time ill dot like an aimpoint, but much more crisp. If you don't use ill you still gave a nice black dot. 1x has a huge fov. 4x is great at distance or for precision. With 50/200 yard zero, you are poa/poi from 0 - 250. At 300 you will be approx 8" low. The hash mark under the dot is poa/poi for 300.
In the open division in 3 gun you can run two optics. My son runs a Luppy 2-7x and a jpoint at 45 deg off the side of the receiver. Gives u best if both worlds. Depends on what u like and your needs.
Nick-
I recommend the meopta 1-4x kdot for what u want. Have been using one for 3 yrs in 3 gun competition and it is awesome. Day time ill dot like an aimpoint, but much more crisp. If you don't use ill you still gave a nice black dot. 1x has a huge fov. 4x is great at distance or for precision. With 50/200 yard zero, you are poa/poi from 0 - 250. At 300 you will be approx 8" low. The hash mark under the dot is poa/poi for 300.
In the open division in 3 gun you can run two optics. My son runs a Luppy 2-7x and a jpoint at 45 deg off the side of the receiver. Gives u best if both worlds. Depends on what u like and your needs.
Nick-
Re: Combat shooting optics
leupold CQT is a good short range optic and it gives you the out to 500 with good accuracy. Its kinda like the Meopta as it has a lit reticle but if the batteries shit the bed, you still have the etched reticle that is black
leupold CQT is a good short range optic and it gives you the out to 500 with good accuracy. Its kinda like the Meopta as it has a lit reticle but if the batteries shit the bed, you still have the etched reticle that is black
Re: Combat shooting optics
I go back to the NF 1-4. Shooting 77SMK's it is perfect scope for an AR. True 1x power for point blank shooting and the FC-2 reticle provides holds to 600 yards on 4x. -Brandon
I go back to the NF 1-4. Shooting 77SMK's it is perfect scope for an AR. True 1x power for point blank shooting and the FC-2 reticle provides holds to 600 yards on 4x. -Brandon
Re: Combat shooting optics
Dark Horse, for 50 300 yards, on an AR type rifle, an ACOG TA31F is hard to beat.I like the chevron reticle, it is fast, accurate and versitle. This is the set up I use.
Dark Horse, for 50 300 yards, on an AR type rifle, an ACOG TA31F is hard to beat.I like the chevron reticle, it is fast, accurate and versitle. This is the set up I use.
Re: Combat shooting optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fockell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I go back to the NF 1-4. Shooting 77SMK's it is perfect scope for an AR. True 1x power for point blank shooting and the FC-2 reticle provides holds to 600 yards on 4x. -Brandon</div></div>
The Nightforce 1-4x is a good choice, but the FC-2 doesn't have "holds" out to 600yds. That reticle is really only good for up close stuff, put the circle dot on the target and shoot. Reticle choice is my only beef with the Nightforce 1-4x. The glass is very clear, the scope is nice and compact, not heavy as someone else noted. The true 1x is nice for close shots and wide fov.
Nobody has come up with the "holy grail" of AR optics. Dots like Aimpoint and EOtech are great for up close but no magnification for long shots. ACOG is nice but magnification is fixed and (to me) the magnification is way too much for close use and not enough (3.5x) for really long shots.
There is an ever increasing number of low power variables out there which is the best option IMO. The Short Dot is the best (again, IMO), I bit the bullet and got one awhile back and really like it. In threads like these, people will give you opinions of what works well for them. They're opinions, your experience and needs may differ.
Pick one, train with it and get good with it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fockell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I go back to the NF 1-4. Shooting 77SMK's it is perfect scope for an AR. True 1x power for point blank shooting and the FC-2 reticle provides holds to 600 yards on 4x. -Brandon</div></div>
The Nightforce 1-4x is a good choice, but the FC-2 doesn't have "holds" out to 600yds. That reticle is really only good for up close stuff, put the circle dot on the target and shoot. Reticle choice is my only beef with the Nightforce 1-4x. The glass is very clear, the scope is nice and compact, not heavy as someone else noted. The true 1x is nice for close shots and wide fov.
Nobody has come up with the "holy grail" of AR optics. Dots like Aimpoint and EOtech are great for up close but no magnification for long shots. ACOG is nice but magnification is fixed and (to me) the magnification is way too much for close use and not enough (3.5x) for really long shots.
There is an ever increasing number of low power variables out there which is the best option IMO. The Short Dot is the best (again, IMO), I bit the bullet and got one awhile back and really like it. In threads like these, people will give you opinions of what works well for them. They're opinions, your experience and needs may differ.
Pick one, train with it and get good with it.
Re: Combat shooting optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...looking for preferences on combat shooting between 50-300 meters.</div></div>
Not suprising to read all the magnified optics suggestions on a 'sniper' website.
For 50-300 use an Aimpoint or EOtech for fast TRGT aquisition.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...looking for preferences on combat shooting between 50-300 meters.</div></div>
Not suprising to read all the magnified optics suggestions on a 'sniper' website.
For 50-300 use an Aimpoint or EOtech for fast TRGT aquisition.
Re: Combat shooting optics
I am running a ACOG TA31 ECOS since some monthes now and all i can say is i really like this scope for its all round performance. Its BAC lighted Christmas tree reticle makes it fast and accurate. the Doc on top works good when SA is needed in CQB type scenarios.
Just my 2cents.
I am running a ACOG TA31 ECOS since some monthes now and all i can say is i really like this scope for its all round performance. Its BAC lighted Christmas tree reticle makes it fast and accurate. the Doc on top works good when SA is needed in CQB type scenarios.
Just my 2cents.
Re: Combat shooting optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DT1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fockell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I go back to the NF 1-4. Shooting 77SMK's it is perfect scope for an AR. True 1x power for point blank shooting and the FC-2 reticle provides holds to 600 yards on 4x. -Brandon</div></div>
The Nightforce 1-4x is a good choice, but the FC-2 doesn't have "holds" out to 600yds. That reticle is really only good for up close stuff, put the circle dot on the target and shoot. Reticle choice is my only beef with the Nightforce 1-4x. The glass is very clear, the scope is nice and compact, not heavy as someone else noted. The true 1x is nice for close shots and wide fov.
Nobody has come up with the "holy grail" of AR optics. Dots like Aimpoint and EOtech are great for up close but no magnification for long shots. ACOG is nice but magnification is fixed and (to me) the magnification is way too much for close use and not enough (3.5x) for really long shots.
There is an ever increasing number of low power variables out there which is the best option IMO. The Short Dot is the best (again, IMO), I bit the bullet and got one awhile back and really like it. In threads like these, people will give you opinions of what works well for them. They're opinions, your experience and needs may differ.
Pick one, train with it and get good with it. </div></div>
Actually the FC-2 reticle does provide holds for 600 yards
235-- Zero
300-- between the center dot and circle(2.5moa)
400-- 6 o'clock on the 10 moa circle (5.0moa)
500-- top of the 5moa cheveron (10moa)
600-- bottom of the 5moa cheveron (15moa)
It is not perfect, yet within 1moa and super fast. 1/2 the price of a short dot.
Brandon
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DT1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fockell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I go back to the NF 1-4. Shooting 77SMK's it is perfect scope for an AR. True 1x power for point blank shooting and the FC-2 reticle provides holds to 600 yards on 4x. -Brandon</div></div>
The Nightforce 1-4x is a good choice, but the FC-2 doesn't have "holds" out to 600yds. That reticle is really only good for up close stuff, put the circle dot on the target and shoot. Reticle choice is my only beef with the Nightforce 1-4x. The glass is very clear, the scope is nice and compact, not heavy as someone else noted. The true 1x is nice for close shots and wide fov.
Nobody has come up with the "holy grail" of AR optics. Dots like Aimpoint and EOtech are great for up close but no magnification for long shots. ACOG is nice but magnification is fixed and (to me) the magnification is way too much for close use and not enough (3.5x) for really long shots.
There is an ever increasing number of low power variables out there which is the best option IMO. The Short Dot is the best (again, IMO), I bit the bullet and got one awhile back and really like it. In threads like these, people will give you opinions of what works well for them. They're opinions, your experience and needs may differ.
Pick one, train with it and get good with it. </div></div>
Actually the FC-2 reticle does provide holds for 600 yards
235-- Zero
300-- between the center dot and circle(2.5moa)
400-- 6 o'clock on the 10 moa circle (5.0moa)
500-- top of the 5moa cheveron (10moa)
600-- bottom of the 5moa cheveron (15moa)
It is not perfect, yet within 1moa and super fast. 1/2 the price of a short dot.
Brandon
Re: Combat shooting optics
I've got an Eotech on a SIG 551 and tried it at 300 meters: the center dot covers alot of the target, after setting the illumination lower, it worked not too bad.
I've got an Eotech on a SIG 551 and tried it at 300 meters: the center dot covers alot of the target, after setting the illumination lower, it worked not too bad.
Re: Combat shooting optics
IOR makes a couple you should look at, 1 is the QR-TS 3x25, it's a great 3x sight. The glass is top notch & the ret. works very nice from CQB out to around 500 yards. It has BDC built in, lit ret., and fast focus, I like it very much. #2 is the new 1 & 4x called the "pitbull", I don't know much about it other than it's a great concept. It's similar to the Elcan DR.
IOR sights: http://www.valdada.com/catalog/db21c65d-2429-4509-b1d5-f4dbea62f0b9.aspx
The Elcan SpecterDR scope is one of the best but will cost you. (Then again, should you ever "really" need it, whats your life worth?) Elcan also makes one called the SpecterOS I really like. The retical is super, very well thought out for both CQB & long range. It's a 3x scope with BDC & lit ret. that works great on an AR.
Elcan sights: http://swfa.com/Elcan-Optical-Sights-C79.aspx
I hate to even recomend it, (because I don't like Leupold very much), but, the 1.5-5x Mark 4 MR/T w/ SPR is a pretty good unit as well. It's the only Leupold I havn't sold off yet. Pretty good glass, nice retical, lit but Leupold's shitty switch makes it so - so. Good knob's and the elev. knob has a built in stop that I really like.
Leupold Mark 4: http://swfa.com/Leupold-Mark-4-MRT-Riflescopes-C125.aspx
As far as red dot sight's go, I like them, but ONLY for CQB, and then only Aimpoint. I had a couple EOTech's but never liked them, they always seemed kinda fuzzy to me, and they wash out to easy. (It's also hard to find the ret. sometimes.) The Aimpoint has none of these issues and works great. The 3x mag unit that you can get for them is ok I guess, I just can't justify spending that kind of money on a red dot set up. Plus if your trying to reach out to 200 yards or more a red dot sight would be my last choice. But to each his own, some like them very much and can work with them very well.
Well this will either help a little or confuse the hell out of you. Remember, it doesn't matter what I like or use, it's what works for YOU. So look at everything you can and study them well before laying down your dough. Good luck with your pick.
IOR makes a couple you should look at, 1 is the QR-TS 3x25, it's a great 3x sight. The glass is top notch & the ret. works very nice from CQB out to around 500 yards. It has BDC built in, lit ret., and fast focus, I like it very much. #2 is the new 1 & 4x called the "pitbull", I don't know much about it other than it's a great concept. It's similar to the Elcan DR.
IOR sights: http://www.valdada.com/catalog/db21c65d-2429-4509-b1d5-f4dbea62f0b9.aspx
The Elcan SpecterDR scope is one of the best but will cost you. (Then again, should you ever "really" need it, whats your life worth?) Elcan also makes one called the SpecterOS I really like. The retical is super, very well thought out for both CQB & long range. It's a 3x scope with BDC & lit ret. that works great on an AR.
Elcan sights: http://swfa.com/Elcan-Optical-Sights-C79.aspx
I hate to even recomend it, (because I don't like Leupold very much), but, the 1.5-5x Mark 4 MR/T w/ SPR is a pretty good unit as well. It's the only Leupold I havn't sold off yet. Pretty good glass, nice retical, lit but Leupold's shitty switch makes it so - so. Good knob's and the elev. knob has a built in stop that I really like.
Leupold Mark 4: http://swfa.com/Leupold-Mark-4-MRT-Riflescopes-C125.aspx
As far as red dot sight's go, I like them, but ONLY for CQB, and then only Aimpoint. I had a couple EOTech's but never liked them, they always seemed kinda fuzzy to me, and they wash out to easy. (It's also hard to find the ret. sometimes.) The Aimpoint has none of these issues and works great. The 3x mag unit that you can get for them is ok I guess, I just can't justify spending that kind of money on a red dot set up. Plus if your trying to reach out to 200 yards or more a red dot sight would be my last choice. But to each his own, some like them very much and can work with them very well.
Well this will either help a little or confuse the hell out of you. Remember, it doesn't matter what I like or use, it's what works for YOU. So look at everything you can and study them well before laying down your dough. Good luck with your pick.
Re: Combat shooting optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmachine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Elcan SpecterDR scope is one of the best but will cost you. (Then again, should you ever "really" need it, whats your life worth?) Elcan also makes one called the SpecterOS I really like. The retical is super, very well thought out for both CQB & long range. It's a 3x scope with BDC & lit ret. that works great on an AR.
Elcan sights: http://swfa.com/Elcan-Optical-Sights-C79.aspx
</div></div>
I 've been running Elcan sights since 96 on my service rifle, we have the old C79 on our Army rifles. Agree the optical clarity is great hard to beat, but its sucks as a scope. It will keep losing its zero. My last tour to Afghanistan the first thing i did is get the damn thing off my rifle and replace it with my own Aimpoint and never regreted it.
Last year we got for trial the new Specter DR 6 of them i really wanted it to give it a chance as the mates replace it pretty soon again.
The base and mounting of the Specter was better than that of the C79 and keeping its zero was better as well UNTILL switching between the magnifications.
When going back to the 1 x mag the paralax seem to get a lot worse and the field of view seemed to shrink as well.
The reticle lighting was not uniform as well and pretty hard to see in daylight. Positive was that you had a choice in switching between lighting the Christmas tree and the aiming dot.
I used the Specter for one season and thought it was better than the C79 so i was not amused to give the scope back again.
This season i bought myself the trijicon TA31 ECOS after handeling one at a gun show.
Agree on the specter on 4x mag the optical clarity is better shift it back to 1 and it gets a lot worse.
In all other features i dont think the Specter can be even in the shadow of this Trijicon.
The Acog will actually hold its zero, for observing i use a bino from a riflescope i expect to hit what i am aiming at. The Acog will do just this.
After using Elcans for over 13 years i never had one that gave me the warm fuzzy feeling and i am glad our Army is getting rid of them later this year.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmachine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Elcan SpecterDR scope is one of the best but will cost you. (Then again, should you ever "really" need it, whats your life worth?) Elcan also makes one called the SpecterOS I really like. The retical is super, very well thought out for both CQB & long range. It's a 3x scope with BDC & lit ret. that works great on an AR.
Elcan sights: http://swfa.com/Elcan-Optical-Sights-C79.aspx
</div></div>
I 've been running Elcan sights since 96 on my service rifle, we have the old C79 on our Army rifles. Agree the optical clarity is great hard to beat, but its sucks as a scope. It will keep losing its zero. My last tour to Afghanistan the first thing i did is get the damn thing off my rifle and replace it with my own Aimpoint and never regreted it.
Last year we got for trial the new Specter DR 6 of them i really wanted it to give it a chance as the mates replace it pretty soon again.
The base and mounting of the Specter was better than that of the C79 and keeping its zero was better as well UNTILL switching between the magnifications.
When going back to the 1 x mag the paralax seem to get a lot worse and the field of view seemed to shrink as well.
The reticle lighting was not uniform as well and pretty hard to see in daylight. Positive was that you had a choice in switching between lighting the Christmas tree and the aiming dot.
I used the Specter for one season and thought it was better than the C79 so i was not amused to give the scope back again.
This season i bought myself the trijicon TA31 ECOS after handeling one at a gun show.
Agree on the specter on 4x mag the optical clarity is better shift it back to 1 and it gets a lot worse.
In all other features i dont think the Specter can be even in the shadow of this Trijicon.
The Acog will actually hold its zero, for observing i use a bino from a riflescope i expect to hit what i am aiming at. The Acog will do just this.
After using Elcans for over 13 years i never had one that gave me the warm fuzzy feeling and i am glad our Army is getting rid of them later this year.
Re: Combat shooting optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blonz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got an Eotech on a SIG 551 and tried it at 300 meters: the center dot covers alot of the target, after setting the illumination lower, it worked not too bad.
</div></div>
You <span style="font-weight: bold">ALWAYS</span> set the illumination at the lowest level that you can effectivly see...that's why a lot of people put tape over their ACOGs tritium bar.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blonz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got an Eotech on a SIG 551 and tried it at 300 meters: the center dot covers alot of the target, after setting the illumination lower, it worked not too bad.
</div></div>
You <span style="font-weight: bold">ALWAYS</span> set the illumination at the lowest level that you can effectivly see...that's why a lot of people put tape over their ACOGs tritium bar.
Re: Combat shooting optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf7,62</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmachine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Elcan SpecterDR scope is one of the best but will cost you. (Then again, should you ever "really" need it, whats your life worth?) Elcan also makes one called the SpecterOS I really like. The retical is super, very well thought out for both CQB & long range. It's a 3x scope with BDC & lit ret. that works great on an AR.
Elcan sights: http://swfa.com/Elcan-Optical-Sights-C79.aspx
</div></div>
I 've been running Elcan sights since 96 on my service rifle, we have the old C79 on our Army rifles. Agree the optical clarity is great hard to beat, but its sucks as a scope. It will keep losing its zero. My last tour to Afghanistan the first thing i did is get the damn thing off my rifle and replace it with my own Aimpoint and never regreted it.
Last year we got for trial the new Specter DR 6 of them i really wanted it to give it a chance as the mates replace it pretty soon again.
The base and mounting of the Specter was better than that of the C79 and keeping its zero was better as well UNTILL switching between the magnifications.
When going back to the 1 x mag the paralax seem to get a lot worse and the field of view seemed to shrink as well.
The reticle lighting was not uniform as well and pretty hard to see in daylight. Positive was that you had a choice in switching between lighting the Christmas tree and the aiming dot.
I used the Specter for one season and thought it was better than the C79 so i was not amused to give the scope back again.
This season i bought myself the trijicon TA31 ECOS after handeling one at a gun show.
Agree on the specter on 4x mag the optical clarity is better shift it back to 1 and it gets a lot worse.
In all other features i dont think the Specter can be even in the shadow of this Trijicon.
The Acog will actually hold its zero, for observing i use a bino from a riflescope i expect to hit what i am aiming at. The Acog will do just this.
After using Elcans for over 13 years i never had one that gave me the warm fuzzy feeling and i am glad our Army is getting rid of them later this year. </div></div>
Your the first guy I ever herd of that had alot of trouble with Elcan's. Did all the DR's screw up, or just the one you used? I agree about that C79 sight, I never liked it either. And I can only state what I'v read about the DR, but it's all been positive until now. I have a Speter OS that I love, I think it's a greeat sight. Similar to an ACOG type sight but with a very good retical. ACOG's are very good scopes as well, except for their stupid 1.5" eye relief, but I like my TA01 very much. (As long as you stay outside with it, 4x is just to much for CQB.) Thats a shame about the DR, I hope it was an isolated problem and you just got a bad one. I really like the idea of that system and wanted to get one at some point. We'll have to see if any other problems come up first though, esp. at $1800! IOR makes that type of scope now, 1 & 4x switch system, and their glass is very good. However it's brand new and no feedback yet to go by. Anyway, thank's for the input on the DR, I'm going to see what else I can find on it. I'd be pissed if I layed down that kind of money and it wasn't top notch.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf7,62</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmachine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Elcan SpecterDR scope is one of the best but will cost you. (Then again, should you ever "really" need it, whats your life worth?) Elcan also makes one called the SpecterOS I really like. The retical is super, very well thought out for both CQB & long range. It's a 3x scope with BDC & lit ret. that works great on an AR.
Elcan sights: http://swfa.com/Elcan-Optical-Sights-C79.aspx
</div></div>
I 've been running Elcan sights since 96 on my service rifle, we have the old C79 on our Army rifles. Agree the optical clarity is great hard to beat, but its sucks as a scope. It will keep losing its zero. My last tour to Afghanistan the first thing i did is get the damn thing off my rifle and replace it with my own Aimpoint and never regreted it.
Last year we got for trial the new Specter DR 6 of them i really wanted it to give it a chance as the mates replace it pretty soon again.
The base and mounting of the Specter was better than that of the C79 and keeping its zero was better as well UNTILL switching between the magnifications.
When going back to the 1 x mag the paralax seem to get a lot worse and the field of view seemed to shrink as well.
The reticle lighting was not uniform as well and pretty hard to see in daylight. Positive was that you had a choice in switching between lighting the Christmas tree and the aiming dot.
I used the Specter for one season and thought it was better than the C79 so i was not amused to give the scope back again.
This season i bought myself the trijicon TA31 ECOS after handeling one at a gun show.
Agree on the specter on 4x mag the optical clarity is better shift it back to 1 and it gets a lot worse.
In all other features i dont think the Specter can be even in the shadow of this Trijicon.
The Acog will actually hold its zero, for observing i use a bino from a riflescope i expect to hit what i am aiming at. The Acog will do just this.
After using Elcans for over 13 years i never had one that gave me the warm fuzzy feeling and i am glad our Army is getting rid of them later this year. </div></div>
Your the first guy I ever herd of that had alot of trouble with Elcan's. Did all the DR's screw up, or just the one you used? I agree about that C79 sight, I never liked it either. And I can only state what I'v read about the DR, but it's all been positive until now. I have a Speter OS that I love, I think it's a greeat sight. Similar to an ACOG type sight but with a very good retical. ACOG's are very good scopes as well, except for their stupid 1.5" eye relief, but I like my TA01 very much. (As long as you stay outside with it, 4x is just to much for CQB.) Thats a shame about the DR, I hope it was an isolated problem and you just got a bad one. I really like the idea of that system and wanted to get one at some point. We'll have to see if any other problems come up first though, esp. at $1800! IOR makes that type of scope now, 1 & 4x switch system, and their glass is very good. However it's brand new and no feedback yet to go by. Anyway, thank's for the input on the DR, I'm going to see what else I can find on it. I'd be pissed if I layed down that kind of money and it wasn't top notch.
Re: Combat shooting optics
Aimpoint M2, M3, M4, T-1 or H-1.... I recommend any of them.
I have contact with a lot of students (civ, mil and LE) all of which run various sight systems. The two most popular are the Aimpoints and the Eotechs. The mil guys I have contact with tend to lean to the ACOG NSN at first.
I am not a fan of the EOtech for numerous reasons though the biggest reason is they are most likely to break under normal operating conditions. I have witnessed very few Aimpoints or ACOGs fail and those that did fail had adverse conditions which caused them to be pushed beyond their normal operating limits.
The ACOG is expensive and has been known to have issues with the reticle being canted. The eye relief is troublesome and the magnification hinders CQB accuracy and speed. The ACOG prohibits the immediate use of a BUIS but the flip side it is a robust sight and is less likely to fail.
The Aimpoint system is simple which too many people equate to being vanilla or not sexy enough for their "black rifle". I have taken new shooters who have no problems at the end of a 7 day course hitting targets with an M4 topped with a Aimpoint or even iron sights. It all comes down to driving the rifle correctly.
Aimpoint M2, M3, M4, T-1 or H-1.... I recommend any of them.
I have contact with a lot of students (civ, mil and LE) all of which run various sight systems. The two most popular are the Aimpoints and the Eotechs. The mil guys I have contact with tend to lean to the ACOG NSN at first.
I am not a fan of the EOtech for numerous reasons though the biggest reason is they are most likely to break under normal operating conditions. I have witnessed very few Aimpoints or ACOGs fail and those that did fail had adverse conditions which caused them to be pushed beyond their normal operating limits.
The ACOG is expensive and has been known to have issues with the reticle being canted. The eye relief is troublesome and the magnification hinders CQB accuracy and speed. The ACOG prohibits the immediate use of a BUIS but the flip side it is a robust sight and is less likely to fail.
The Aimpoint system is simple which too many people equate to being vanilla or not sexy enough for their "black rifle". I have taken new shooters who have no problems at the end of a 7 day course hitting targets with an M4 topped with a Aimpoint or even iron sights. It all comes down to driving the rifle correctly.
Re: Combat shooting optics
Just to dogpile onto everyone else's comments...Between my persoanl guns and duty weapons at work, I've used/owned Aimpoints, Eotechs, and acogs. For use on a carbine, my preferance is the Aimpoint T1 on a Larue mount, with a 3X monocular behind on a flip mount. Using a magnified optic for a buiding search just plain sucks. My duty carbine at work is issued with a eotech 552, and we have had about 4 of them crap out. I have had zero problems with the T1 or my ML2. I do like the acogs, I have a TA55 thats going on a 6.8 build.but for close in and personal, they are far from being an ideal choice.
Just to dogpile onto everyone else's comments...Between my persoanl guns and duty weapons at work, I've used/owned Aimpoints, Eotechs, and acogs. For use on a carbine, my preferance is the Aimpoint T1 on a Larue mount, with a 3X monocular behind on a flip mount. Using a magnified optic for a buiding search just plain sucks. My duty carbine at work is issued with a eotech 552, and we have had about 4 of them crap out. I have had zero problems with the T1 or my ML2. I do like the acogs, I have a TA55 thats going on a 6.8 build.but for close in and personal, they are far from being an ideal choice.
Re: Combat shooting optics
I use the Trijicon TriPower.
After trying to find the best all around optic, I learned that the chevron reticle of the TriPower is very good for super fast aiming.
In addition to that, it is more accurate than any of the dot systems because your point of aim is on top of the tip of the chevron so there is nothing to obscure your target.
No FOV or paralax issues, Trijicon durability, and batteries are not an issue.
I actually prefer to not use the battery illumination if at all possible because by using just the fiber optic the brightness auto adjusts to the conditions perfectly.
http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=412&back_row=0&categoryID=11
I use the Trijicon TriPower.
After trying to find the best all around optic, I learned that the chevron reticle of the TriPower is very good for super fast aiming.
In addition to that, it is more accurate than any of the dot systems because your point of aim is on top of the tip of the chevron so there is nothing to obscure your target.
No FOV or paralax issues, Trijicon durability, and batteries are not an issue.
I actually prefer to not use the battery illumination if at all possible because by using just the fiber optic the brightness auto adjusts to the conditions perfectly.
http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=412&back_row=0&categoryID=11
Re: Combat shooting optics
I like the Trijicon ACOG 4x with BDC reticle, reasonable magnification, very good optics howver when shooting against my friends at recent Frontsight 4 day rifle those with a red-dot (EO and Aimpoint) they were much faster at target acquisition, but not quite as consistant with their hits (especially over 100yds)
That being said I am thrilled with the Leupy 2.5-8 MRT with TMR reticle. Included DBC dialed works great even with 147gr 762x51milsurp and the magnification range is perfect for the ranges you describe. Most notable downside is its weight. Hope this helps -Walt
I like the Trijicon ACOG 4x with BDC reticle, reasonable magnification, very good optics howver when shooting against my friends at recent Frontsight 4 day rifle those with a red-dot (EO and Aimpoint) they were much faster at target acquisition, but not quite as consistant with their hits (especially over 100yds)
That being said I am thrilled with the Leupy 2.5-8 MRT with TMR reticle. Included DBC dialed works great even with 147gr 762x51milsurp and the magnification range is perfect for the ranges you describe. Most notable downside is its weight. Hope this helps -Walt
