I was just wondering if anyone had a custom barrel that still had bad copper fouling after they broke it in? My first .308 Krieger stopped showing copper after the first three shots during break in. Now no matter how much I shoot the .308, all I get is powder fouling. My 6.5x47 with a Bartlein is on the 8th round from break in and is still showing some copper after cleaning every round. I’m not worried yet, just wondering what other people’s experiences where?
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Custom barrels and copper fouling?
- Thread starter Siso
- Start date
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
The Krieger on my AR stopped after about 15 rds: clean each rd for thre 1st 5-6, then every other for the next 10 or so. Haven't run it more than 80-90 w/o a cleaning though so haven't pushed it too hard.
You've got a pretty hot round there, might take a while. I've never had anything like the 6.5x47...
-Slice
The Krieger on my AR stopped after about 15 rds: clean each rd for thre 1st 5-6, then every other for the next 10 or so. Haven't run it more than 80-90 w/o a cleaning though so haven't pushed it too hard.
You've got a pretty hot round there, might take a while. I've never had anything like the 6.5x47...
-Slice
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
I don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm not sure I understand? Generally clean it after every match, and don't see much if any copper fouling. Followed the break-in instructions from Krieger. Did/Am I doing something wrong?
-Slice
I don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm not sure I understand? Generally clean it after every match, and don't see much if any copper fouling. Followed the break-in instructions from Krieger. Did/Am I doing something wrong?
-Slice
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
Sounds like your barrel is no good, so you can just go ahead and send it on over to me... ;-)
No need to worry, I have gone through quite a few custom barrels and some do foul a little more than others - all have shot well and that's all that matters.
Sounds like your barrel is no good, so you can just go ahead and send it on over to me... ;-)
No need to worry, I have gone through quite a few custom barrels and some do foul a little more than others - all have shot well and that's all that matters.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
What barrel break-in, what's that? Just shoot it.
If you have to do barrel break-in go to Bartlein's website they have break-in info posted there for their barrels.
What barrel break-in, what's that? Just shoot it.
If you have to do barrel break-in go to Bartlein's website they have break-in info posted there for their barrels.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
I have 3 Bartleins, and after a few hundred rounds in out of each rifle, like 300 or so, I was bored and decided to clean them. All that came out was carbon. I used wipe out and let it soak overnight. I did it a a couple more times and then nothing. I even ran Sweets through it jut to see if there was any copper, all I got was a white patch. I was totally impressed.
I have 3 Bartleins, and after a few hundred rounds in out of each rifle, like 300 or so, I was bored and decided to clean them. All that came out was carbon. I used wipe out and let it soak overnight. I did it a a couple more times and then nothing. I even ran Sweets through it jut to see if there was any copper, all I got was a white patch. I was totally impressed.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
New bartlein here, never got any blue colored foam to come out of it (wipe-out cleaner). Tried again after a couple hundred rounds, and still nothing but very light carbon. *Am using bn coated bullets, not sure if that matters much.
New bartlein here, never got any blue colored foam to come out of it (wipe-out cleaner). Tried again after a couple hundred rounds, and still nothing but very light carbon. *Am using bn coated bullets, not sure if that matters much.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
I get very little copper with most of my barrels. My 308 barrels almost never have any copper in them. but the bigger high speed rounds will pick up copper. 180 grain at about 3600 FPS.
I like to do the clean/shoot/clean thing for the first 5. Then just Shoot it till it fouled. Alot of my rifle are barrel burners so i try to cut down on the one shot and clean to save on money.
I get very little copper with most of my barrels. My 308 barrels almost never have any copper in them. but the bigger high speed rounds will pick up copper. 180 grain at about 3600 FPS.
I like to do the clean/shoot/clean thing for the first 5. Then just Shoot it till it fouled. Alot of my rifle are barrel burners so i try to cut down on the one shot and clean to save on money.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
it's not just the barrel or the hotness of the round; among other things it is the rifle smith that cut the chamber and the condition of their reamer. I have a bunch of Hart's and Krieger's with every thing from PPC to 300 WWH and I can only recall 1 barrel that showed significant copper after more than 10 rounds, a 1:14 twist 243Ackley, that got about 800 rounds before the throat was gone.
it's not just the barrel or the hotness of the round; among other things it is the rifle smith that cut the chamber and the condition of their reamer. I have a bunch of Hart's and Krieger's with every thing from PPC to 300 WWH and I can only recall 1 barrel that showed significant copper after more than 10 rounds, a 1:14 twist 243Ackley, that got about 800 rounds before the throat was gone.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
I will likely never have a factory barreled centerfire rifle ever again after my great experience with my mcgowan. I've never had a blue patch come out of the barrel and it's got 466 rounds to date now since I got it in March.
The only factory barrels I have now is my shotgun, and my rimfire.
Branden
I will likely never have a factory barreled centerfire rifle ever again after my great experience with my mcgowan. I've never had a blue patch come out of the barrel and it's got 466 rounds to date now since I got it in March.
The only factory barrels I have now is my shotgun, and my rimfire.
Branden
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
The "Break In" your hearing about is not the barrel. When chambered the throating part of the reamer is going to leave micro burrs in it no matter how sharp or well chambered the gun is. The burrs pic up copper and the heat turns them to plasma depositing it down you barrel. The first few rounds should copper up and maybe even as many as 20-30 rounds. If there is not a problem the copper should go away after that.
Had a guy this year on our 1k BR team that started off great and half way through the season started running into problems with fouling. We scoped the bore and found that some how a burr had gotten in there about 10" from the muzzle and it was causing excess fouling in one grove at the muzzle. We used a little 400 grit lapping compound on a patch on a brush and his next group he had 9 shots in 4".
The "Break In" your hearing about is not the barrel. When chambered the throating part of the reamer is going to leave micro burrs in it no matter how sharp or well chambered the gun is. The burrs pic up copper and the heat turns them to plasma depositing it down you barrel. The first few rounds should copper up and maybe even as many as 20-30 rounds. If there is not a problem the copper should go away after that.
Had a guy this year on our 1k BR team that started off great and half way through the season started running into problems with fouling. We scoped the bore and found that some how a burr had gotten in there about 10" from the muzzle and it was causing excess fouling in one grove at the muzzle. We used a little 400 grit lapping compound on a patch on a brush and his next group he had 9 shots in 4".
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
Had a shilen that would show copper after 100 rounds or so. My krieger barreles never show any copper!! I also have a remington barrel that never shows white patches. There always blue!!! Huhh!!! Lee
Had a shilen that would show copper after 100 rounds or so. My krieger barreles never show any copper!! I also have a remington barrel that never shows white patches. There always blue!!! Huhh!!! Lee
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
Copper isnt the worst thing for barrels. The carbon left over is what the killer for accuracy is. JB, ISSOI, or something like carb out is a must every 100-200 rounds.
Copper isnt the worst thing for barrels. The carbon left over is what the killer for accuracy is. JB, ISSOI, or something like carb out is a must every 100-200 rounds.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
Dont know what barrel maker but GAP rebarrel in 300 WSM fouled terrible for first 20-30 rounds sweets, butchs would not even touch it had to use bore foam on first few cleanings. After 30 cleans as easy the factory chrome bore(FNH SPR).
Dont know what barrel maker but GAP rebarrel in 300 WSM fouled terrible for first 20-30 rounds sweets, butchs would not even touch it had to use bore foam on first few cleanings. After 30 cleans as easy the factory chrome bore(FNH SPR).
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
NAG is exactly right on what he is telling you about the copper fouling and the carbon fouling couldn't have said it better myself.
Paul
Rock Creek Barrels
NAG is exactly right on what he is telling you about the copper fouling and the carbon fouling couldn't have said it better myself.
Paul
Rock Creek Barrels
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
I am new here but will throw my 2 cents in. I am an old benchrest/silhouette shooter and I used a very inexpensive product to clean my bores with. It is called GM( as Government Motors) top end engine cleaner. It is the kind you pour into a carburetor not spray. It comes in a pint can and you add 1 tablespoon of 30w. motor oil to it. It would remove copper and mostly carbon from the bore. It is good enough it will remove the burn marks from a stainless revolver and not hurt it. I would still use some 7.62 or Sweet's to finish the cleaning but you will like it. It costs about $10.00 for a big can and lasts a long time. You buy it at a GM dealership parts counter. Hope this helps and thanks for your time.
Sturkis
I am new here but will throw my 2 cents in. I am an old benchrest/silhouette shooter and I used a very inexpensive product to clean my bores with. It is called GM( as Government Motors) top end engine cleaner. It is the kind you pour into a carburetor not spray. It comes in a pint can and you add 1 tablespoon of 30w. motor oil to it. It would remove copper and mostly carbon from the bore. It is good enough it will remove the burn marks from a stainless revolver and not hurt it. I would still use some 7.62 or Sweet's to finish the cleaning but you will like it. It costs about $10.00 for a big can and lasts a long time. You buy it at a GM dealership parts counter. Hope this helps and thanks for your time.
Sturkis
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
Sturkis, I tried to buy that GM top engine cleaner recently and that particular item has been superceeded to a top Engine/Fuel injector cleaner. I purchase a bottle for 19.95. It still works exactly the same as my dad's old can. Just an FYI. In my opinion, wipe out works just as good without the mess and smell.
Sturkis, I tried to buy that GM top engine cleaner recently and that particular item has been superceeded to a top Engine/Fuel injector cleaner. I purchase a bottle for 19.95. It still works exactly the same as my dad's old can. Just an FYI. In my opinion, wipe out works just as good without the mess and smell.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
That wipe out is some amazing shit. Nag turned me on to it recently. Its where its at!
That wipe out is some amazing shit. Nag turned me on to it recently. Its where its at!
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
Wipe out is a shaving cream like foam that rocks! You spray it in your barrel, leave it for several hours and it removes all of the copper. I live close to a range so I've been shooting one round, leaving, using Wipe Out and repeating for my break in. If you have never used wipe out, and have copper to remove, you should at least try it. The only draw back is that it takes several hours for your barrel to be clean. It doesn't work well on carbon but it's great on copper.
The rifle was barreled by GAP, so I'm happy to hear that other GAPs have taken 20-30 rounds. Unfortunately I'm still on round number 9!
Wipe out is a shaving cream like foam that rocks! You spray it in your barrel, leave it for several hours and it removes all of the copper. I live close to a range so I've been shooting one round, leaving, using Wipe Out and repeating for my break in. If you have never used wipe out, and have copper to remove, you should at least try it. The only draw back is that it takes several hours for your barrel to be clean. It doesn't work well on carbon but it's great on copper.
The rifle was barreled by GAP, so I'm happy to hear that other GAPs have taken 20-30 rounds. Unfortunately I'm still on round number 9!
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cut rifled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NAG is exactly right on what he is telling you about the copper fouling and the carbon fouling couldn't have said it better myself.
Paul
Rock Creek Barrels </div></div>
Just another example fwiw: RCB 308 barrel chambered by Don at RCB with a new live pilot JGS finish reamer and the most copper seen was after his ten test shots, as delivered.
Gave it a light cleaning and proceeded to shoot a couple hundred rounds at which point it got enough of a cleaning to remove the initial copper. Another hundred plus rounds and didn't clean it for months.
Used some TM Solution last night and no blue 'cept after using a bronze brush. Looks like new at the muzzle under magnification and shoots like a sumbitch.
Thanks Don, Paul, and Mike, y'all rock - pun intended.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cut rifled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NAG is exactly right on what he is telling you about the copper fouling and the carbon fouling couldn't have said it better myself.
Paul
Rock Creek Barrels </div></div>
Just another example fwiw: RCB 308 barrel chambered by Don at RCB with a new live pilot JGS finish reamer and the most copper seen was after his ten test shots, as delivered.
Gave it a light cleaning and proceeded to shoot a couple hundred rounds at which point it got enough of a cleaning to remove the initial copper. Another hundred plus rounds and didn't clean it for months.
Used some TM Solution last night and no blue 'cept after using a bronze brush. Looks like new at the muzzle under magnification and shoots like a sumbitch.
Thanks Don, Paul, and Mike, y'all rock - pun intended.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Copper isnt the worst thing for barrels. The carbon left over is what the killer for accuracy is. JB, ISSOI, or something like carb out is a must every 100-200 rounds.</div></div>
Ditto on the ISSO paste and follow up with ISSO eliminator oil for a few patches, don't let the rod spin either. I tend to stay on top of my rifles.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Copper isnt the worst thing for barrels. The carbon left over is what the killer for accuracy is. JB, ISSOI, or something like carb out is a must every 100-200 rounds.</div></div>
Ditto on the ISSO paste and follow up with ISSO eliminator oil for a few patches, don't let the rod spin either. I tend to stay on top of my rifles.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sisu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...just wondering what other people’s experiences where? </div></div>I have had custom barrels stop fouling after a few shots: three to five. Some have taken 20 shots or more. I wouldn't worry about it unless it doesn't group well. I have seen one barrel that would not stop fouling badly after 100 rounds, and it didn't shoot well either. That one was returned.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sisu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...just wondering what other people’s experiences where? </div></div>I have had custom barrels stop fouling after a few shots: three to five. Some have taken 20 shots or more. I wouldn't worry about it unless it doesn't group well. I have seen one barrel that would not stop fouling badly after 100 rounds, and it didn't shoot well either. That one was returned.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sturkis, I tried to buy that GM top engine cleaner recently and that particular item has been superceeded to a top Engine/Fuel injector cleaner. I purchase a bottle for 19.95. It still works exactly the same as my dad's old can. Just an FYI. In my opinion, wipe out works just as good without the mess and smell. </div></div>
You can get this in an aerosol can version #X66A top engine cleaner from GM dealers. If I remember correctly that #X66P is the pour bottle stuff.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sturkis, I tried to buy that GM top engine cleaner recently and that particular item has been superceeded to a top Engine/Fuel injector cleaner. I purchase a bottle for 19.95. It still works exactly the same as my dad's old can. Just an FYI. In my opinion, wipe out works just as good without the mess and smell. </div></div>
You can get this in an aerosol can version #X66A top engine cleaner from GM dealers. If I remember correctly that #X66P is the pour bottle stuff.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
I'll have to try the engine cleaner. But all of this got me thinking, I wonder how difficult it would be to mess up a custom barrel? (Believe me I don't want to try : ) But how often would a person have to pull a bore brush back in after it's pushed out of the muzzle to wreck the crown? Or if Sweets was left in for an hour the barrel would be pitted I assume. But how would all of this affect accuracy? Would the groups open up by 1/4 min or as much as a 1 min?
I'll have to try the engine cleaner. But all of this got me thinking, I wonder how difficult it would be to mess up a custom barrel? (Believe me I don't want to try : ) But how often would a person have to pull a bore brush back in after it's pushed out of the muzzle to wreck the crown? Or if Sweets was left in for an hour the barrel would be pitted I assume. But how would all of this affect accuracy? Would the groups open up by 1/4 min or as much as a 1 min?
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
Another really good cleaner i have try lately.
You can use it with the #1 first and its seriously just melts the copper out.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=25965/Product/KG12_BIG_BORE_CLEANER
Another really good cleaner i have try lately.
You can use it with the #1 first and its seriously just melts the copper out.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=25965/Product/KG12_BIG_BORE_CLEANER
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sisu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wipe out is a shaving cream like foam that rocks! You spray it in your barrel, leave it for several hours and it removes all of the copper. I live close to a range so I've been shooting one round, leaving, using Wipe Out and repeating for my break in. If you have never used wipe out, and have copper to remove, you should at least try it. The only draw back is that it takes several hours for your barrel to be clean. It doesn't work well on carbon but it's great on copper.
The rifle was barreled by GAP, so I'm happy to hear that other GAPs have taken 20-30 rounds. Unfortunately I'm still on round number 9!
</div></div>
The same company makes a product called Patch Out. Same effect but in liquid form. Good stuff.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sisu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wipe out is a shaving cream like foam that rocks! You spray it in your barrel, leave it for several hours and it removes all of the copper. I live close to a range so I've been shooting one round, leaving, using Wipe Out and repeating for my break in. If you have never used wipe out, and have copper to remove, you should at least try it. The only draw back is that it takes several hours for your barrel to be clean. It doesn't work well on carbon but it's great on copper.
The rifle was barreled by GAP, so I'm happy to hear that other GAPs have taken 20-30 rounds. Unfortunately I'm still on round number 9!
</div></div>
The same company makes a product called Patch Out. Same effect but in liquid form. Good stuff.
Re: Custom barrels and copper fouling?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DRAM40A1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The same company makes a product called Patch Out. Same effect but in liquid form. Good stuff. </div></div>
They also make a accelerant that helps alot as well. Also Carb-Out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DRAM40A1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The same company makes a product called Patch Out. Same effect but in liquid form. Good stuff. </div></div>
They also make a accelerant that helps alot as well. Also Carb-Out.
