Custom bolt action barrel not centered with stock

[XLR308]

Not sure. I just couldnt close the bolt handle with that round only. Maybe a faulty round? I set it aside and tried it again later and it still wouldn’t chamber. You can see the marking on the casing where it wouldn’t load properly. I’ll take a pic of the round when I get home

Not familiar with the Origin but one of my Kelbly Atlas actions i innitially had some similar issues.
It was intermittently not wanting to fully close the bolt on some rounds.
After some comms with Kelblys and members on here i pulled the extractor assembly out of the bolt and blended some of the sharper surfaces that slip over the case rim with 600grit wet/dry sand paper, it has been flawless since.

 

[Texasflyer]

This is why when i bed an action i put a few rubber o rings on the barrel to center it in the stock.

 

[XLR308]

This is why when i bed an action i put a few rubber o rings on the barrel to center it in the stock.

I use eletrical tape with enough wraps to closely match the channel near the end of the forearm.
The kicker is if the stock allready has pillars or in this case a chassis it needs to be check fitted with studs to verify it wont have unacceptable contact when the action screws are installed.

 

[KnowNothing256]

I use eletrical tape with enough wraps to closely match the channel near the end of the forearm.
The kicker is if the stock allready has pillars or in this case a chassis it needs to be check fitted with studs to verify it wont have unacceptable contact when the action screws are installed.

I do it the same way, although I’ve never bedded a chassis. I actually just hogged out and bedded a B14 HMR stock because the barrel wasn’t aligned in the channel, but the only way I could make sure it ended up right was to do a full bed job. Skim-bedded the tang just to give it a locked-in home, full bedding at the front pillar and recoil lug. Nothing forward of the lug recess since it’s a barrel-nut setup, plus I tend to prefer a fully floated barrel anyway. One less question mark, ya know?

A chassis is a different animal though, or can be. Not always a lot of surface available to bed to in the inlet, depending on the design.

 

[lte82]

There’s a big difference between bedding an action and bedding a recoil lug. The entire point of bedding a recoil lug is to make sure that the mating surface between the back of the recoil lug and the chassis / stock is 100%, in case the surfaces were not completely parallel to each other when the action is installed. That way, under recoil the action doesn't try to move or slide due to the surfaces not lining up perfectly. XLR doesn't use a v block system, it's a cnc'd radius that should provide a lot of contact area with the action, similar to Foundation. If the action truly was sitting in there cock eyed, the bed job was a complete failure (doubtful).

If you want to check the barrel, loosen up the barrel (in a barrel vise and action wrench) and put it back in the chassis. Spin the barrel around 90 degrees, 180 degrees, etc and see if you notice the curvature of the barrel or the gaps between the fore end grow and shrink. Yes, there is going to be slop between the threads, but you should still be able to see if the barrel stays pointed to the right or if it points left when you rotate it 180 degrees.

 

[XLR308]

I do it the same way, although I’ve never bedded a chassis. I actually just hogged out and bedded a B14 HMR stock because the barrel wasn’t aligned in the channel, but the only way I could make sure it ended up right was to do a full bed job. Skim-bedded the tang just to give it a locked-in home, full bedding at the front pillar and recoil lug. Nothing forward of the lug recess since it’s a barrel-nut setup, plus I tend to prefer a fully floated barrel anyway. One less question mark, ya know?

A chassis is a different animal though, or can be. Not always a lot of surface available to bed to in the inlet, depending on the design.

I only have one chassis (XLR) which i believe are multy point radially cut inlets and have had a few V- Block alluminum inserted stocks. Never saw any need for bedding and the ones that started in conventional stocks those rifles shot measuably better after swapping.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Agreed with @lte82, and yeah @XLR308, I thought that chassis was more complex and had more contact than a V-block. I’m honestly guessing this is a barrel thing and not a bedding job problem unless the smith really hooched the pooch.

 

[Im2bent]

I'm with Oregun with this one. The op stated and the pics clearly show the barrel is angled in the channel. Now the only way this could happen is if the bedding job on the recoil lug is so fubared that it has caused the barreled action to sit crooked in the chassis. Now if that's the case how did the action screws (specifically the rear one) line up? If the chassis was fubared to start with a good bedding job should have straightened things out?

 

[KnowNothing256]

I'm with Oregun with this one. The op stated and the pics clearly show the barrel is angled in the channel. Now the only way this could happen is if the bedding job on the recoil lug is so fubared that it has caused the barreled action to sit crooked in the chassis. Now if that's the case how did the action screws (specifically the rear one) line up? If the chassis was fubared to start with a good bedding job should have straightened things out?

Just bedding the recoil lug likely wouldn’t correct an alignment issue. For there to be an alignment problem, either the barrel isn’t straight or the action inlet isn’t straight. When you bed the recoil lug, you’d likely install the action normally, probably even fully torque the screws. That’s the only way to ensure full, straight contact at the rear lug face when the action is fully torqued in.

If you’re doing a stress-free full bed, that could fix alignment problems, but that’s not what’s been described.

 

[XLR308]

There’s a big difference between bedding an action and bedding a recoil lug. The entire point of bedding a recoil lug is to make sure that the mating surface between the back of the recoil lug and the chassis / stock is 100%, in case the surfaces were not completely parallel to each other when the action is installed. That way, under recoil the action doesn't try to move or slide due to the surfaces not lining up perfectly. XLR doesn't use a v block system, it's a cnc'd radius that should provide a lot of contact area with the action, similar to Foundation. If the action truly was sitting in there cock eyed, the bed job was a complete failure (doubtful).

If you want to check the barrel, loosen up the barrel (in a barrel vise and action wrench) and put it back in the chassis. Spin the barrel around 90 degrees, 180 degrees, etc and see if you notice the curvature of the barrel or the gaps between the fore end grow and shrink. Yes, there is going to be slop between the threads, but you should still be able to see if the barrel stays pointed to the right or if it points left when you rotate it 180 degrees.

Even if the bedding was a bit off i personally think the action screw would overcome that and seat the action into the CNC cut inlet anyways.
The clamp load for a single 1/4-28 Socket cap screw at 60 In Lbs is about 1909 Lbs.

 

[supercorndogs]

I used masking tape last time I did one. As noted above it shouldn't be needed in a V block style chassis with a custom action. It is much more likely the barrel is a little off. On a traditional stock you would just sand the gaps in the stock so they are even, and no-one would know but the guy who sanded it.

 

[lte82]

Just bedding the recoil lug likely wouldn’t correct an alignment issue. For there to be an alignment problem, either the barrel isn’t straight or the action inlet isn’t straight. When you bed the recoil lug, you’d likely install the action normally, probably even fully torque the screws. That’s the only way to ensure full, straight contact at the rear lug face when the action is fully torqued in.

If you’re doing a stress-free full bed, that could fix alignment problems, but that’s not what’s been described.

Exactly.

And with plenty of Proof barrels that have been documented with large amounts of runout, curvature, etc, I don't know why anyone would jump to any other conclusion first. I know some top gunsmiths that wont use them and/or guarantee their accuracy. Yea, I know there are plenty of people shooting great with them, but that doesn't change what I said.

Even if the bedding was a bit off i personally think the action screw would overcome that and seat the action into the CNC cut inlet anyways.
The clamp load for a single 1/4-28 Socket cap screw at 60 In Lbs is about 1909 Lbs.

Yep, probably. But the entire point of bedding anything is to provide less stress and full contact. If you have to overcome an improperly bedded recoil lug with torque down action screws and forcing it into place, nothing is solved and at worst have more issues than if you just left it alone. I don't think this is the issue, but interesting to think about nonetheless.

 

[XLR308]

Exactly.

And with plenty of Proof barrels that have been documented with large amounts of runout, curvature, etc, I don't know why anyone would jump to any other conclusion first. I know some top gunsmiths that wont use them and/or guarantee their accuracy. Yea, I know there are plenty of people shooting great with them, but that doesn't change what I said.



Yep, probably. But the entire point of bedding anything is to provide less stress and full contact. If you have to overcome an improperly bedded recoil lug with torque down action screws and forcing it into place, nothing is solved and at worst have more issues than if you just left it alone. I don't think this is the issue, but interesting to think about nonetheless.

I dont think its the issue either and most likely the lug clearance was a non issue to begin with and bedding was just a way to padd the bill in my opinion.
There was a thread awhile back about certain precaustions needed when torqueing the carbon wrapped barrels i will see if i can dig it up.

 

[Gil P.]

With a false recoil pulse

Bipod and bag. Or even sandbags would be better strategy

I agree. Just give the lead sled away, you'll shoot better without it. Even if you suck now, if you watch the videos in the online training section you'll be shooting half inch groups in no time.

 

[Ccollins77]

I agree. Just give the lead sled away, you'll shoot better without it. Even if you suck now, if you watch the videos in the online training section you'll be shooting half inch groups in no time.

I have a buddy that’s a hunting guide and he swears up and down by the lead sled But I just signed up for the monthly subscription. I’ll check out the videos

 

[XLR308]

I have a buddy that’s a hunting guide and he swears up and down by the lead sled But I just signed up for the monthly subscription. I’ll check out the videos

They are right and doesnt even hqve to a lead sled.
I worked up a load in 300wm loading heavy into a Sinclair front Heavy varmint benchrest and then shot from bidod and ended up needing to do a new work up.

 

[Gil P.]

I have a buddy that’s a hunting guide and he swears up and down by the lead sled But I just signed up for the monthly subscription. I’ll check out the videos

I think most on this site will agree the lead sled is a waste of money.

I know a guy who used a lead sled and contracted HIV from it. Sadly, he died before ever learning to shoot. If it can happen to him it can happen to anyone, why take the chance?

 

[Ccollins77]

They are right and doesnt even hqve to a lead sled.
I worked up a load in 300wm loading heavy into a Sinclair front Heavy varmint benchrest and then shot from bidod and ended up needing to do a new work up.

Yeah in my experience, poi does shift but it’s not bad enough if you’re hunting. I don’t do much benchrest shooting so sub moa groups aren’t that critical to me. As long as I got that head shot on a hog idgaf. I always do a final zero off of what I use to shoot which is a tripod or shooting stick

 

[Ccollins77]

But my point of bringing up the lead sled was if there is an issue with the rifles ability to perform, it would be easy to spot on a lead sled. I could be wrong because I truly don’t know shit lol

 

[KnowNothing256]

But my point of bringing up the lead sled was if there is an issue with the rifles ability to perform, it would be easy to spot on a lead sled. I could be wrong because I truly don’t know shit lol

Not to be unkind, but that might be a good reason to listen to others, such as the majority vote you’re getting to skip the sled.

 

[Ccollins77]

Just left the gunsmith and he’s saying that this chassis is made for a Remington 700 and my custom action isn’t exactly the same as a Remington 700. I thought the origin was a 700 clone? He says the barreled action is 100% true and accuracy shouldn’t be effected that it’s going to be cosmetic only. I asked him about the bedding and he said he only bedded the recoil lug so there isn’t much compound to effect it. He’s standing by his work

 

[Ccollins77]

Not to be unkind, but that might be a good reason to listen to others, such as the majority vote you’re getting to skip the sled.

Don’t get me wrong man, I’m listening hard. Im always willing to take advise and learn something. The lead sled is staying in the garage this week lol

 

[Mauser06]

As far the the lead sled is concerned....


Went to the range with a buddy when we were teenagers. He brought one. I had the same mindset....it'd show me just how well my rifle could shoot. Looked like a friggen shotgun pattern. Checked the usual suspects..scope base and rings and such. Couple more. Huh. This gun shoots well any other time.

Took it out of the lead sled and hammered out a nice group. Promptly learned why my buddy misses so many deer.

 

[Ccollins77]

 

[Ccollins77]

Trigger also isn’t centered and it’s sitting on the same side as the barrel

 

[XLR308]

Just left the gunsmith and he’s saying that this chassis is made for a Remington 700 and my custom action isn’t exactly the same as a Remington 700. I thought the origin was a 700 clone? He says the barreled action is 100% true and accuracy shouldn’t be effected that it’s going to be cosmetic only. I asked him about the bedding and he said he only bedded the recoil lug so there isn’t much compound to effect it. He’s standing by his work

The Origin is a Rem 700 "Clone" as in it has basically the same foot print but acually has tenon threads machined straight, the race ways and bolt face are alighned to the tenon and action face, the scope base screws are actually drill and tapped straight and the primary extraction is correct
Sorry i forgot one it comes with no trigger instead of one destined for a trashcan or junk drawer.

 

[OREGUN]

Just left the gunsmith and he’s saying that this chassis is made for a Remington 700 and my custom action isn’t exactly the same as a Remington 700. I thought the origin was a 700 clone? He says the barreled action is 100% true and accuracy shouldn’t be effected that it’s going to be cosmetic only. I asked him about the bedding and he said he only bedded the recoil lug so there isn’t much compound to effect it. He’s standing by his work

I guess I would tend to believe him….you admitted to being new to this stuff, so for now, trust the pro. Do you second guess your dentist? The plumber? I’d still be interested in seeing how things look taken apart in order to satisfy my curiosity, but I also still say go shoot it and see how it does. Take the action out and send us a pic of the bedded area.

The trigger isn’t centered…kinda makes me think the chassis inlet is off center. Really doubt bedding the lug could do that…and still have the screws line up and thread properly. Is the trigger vertical through the slot or tilted? I have an XLR that is terrific but you never know. Still curious to know what they have to say.

Anyone you know have a 700 clone action you could test fit in there? Anyone have a chassis you could try yours in?

I’m just spitballing here. Without looking at it, it’s really hard to say.

 

[Ware'sTacticalFirearms]

Just left the gunsmith and he’s saying that this chassis is made for a Remington 700 and my custom action isn’t exactly the same as a Remington 700. I thought the origin was a 700 clone? He says the barreled action is 100% true and accuracy shouldn’t be effected that it’s going to be cosmetic only. I asked him about the bedding and he said he only bedded the recoil lug so there isn’t much compound to effect it. He’s standing by his work

The Origin isn’t “exactly the same” as a 700 but it’ll fit in a 700 inlet. The only thing that would not allow it to would be the recoil lug but most chassis and aftermarket stocks allow for at least .250” lug.

 

[Im2bent]

The Origin is a Rem 700 "Clone" as in it has basically the same foot print but acually has tenon threads machined straight, the race ways and bolt face are alighned to the tenon and action face, the scope base screws are actually drill and tapped straight and the primary extraction is correct
Sorry i forgot one it comes with no trigger instead of one destined for a trashcan or junk drawer.

All snark aside should the origin action fit in his chassis?

 

[Ware'sTacticalFirearms]

Looks like I type too slow lol

 

[XLR308]

All snark aside should the origin action fit in his chassis?

Absolutely no questions about it, 1000%.
There may be some additional inleting needed for some triggers or trigger hangers but other than that there should be no problems inregards to the exterior dimensions of your action.

 

[Im2bent]

So the smith is full of shit?

 

[XLR308]

So the smith is full of shit?

Without knowing the full context of the conversation i will reserve judgement, i am working on my tact and delivery since im not the most suttle bull in the china shop

 

[Ccollins77]

I guess I would tend to believe him….you admitted to being new to this stuff, so for now, trust the pro. Do you second guess your dentist? The plumber? I’d still be interested in seeing how things look taken apart in order to satisfy my curiosity, but I also still say go shoot it and see how it does. Take the action out and send us a pic of the bedded area.

The trigger isn’t centered…kinda makes me think the chassis inlet is off center. Really doubt bedding the lug could do that…and still have the screws line up and thread properly. Is the trigger vertical through the slot or tilted? I have an XLR that is terrific but you never know. Still curious to know what they have to say.

Anyone you know have a 700 clone action you could test fit in there? Anyone have a chassis you could try yours in?

I’m just spitballing here. Without looking at it, it’s really hard to say.

Very true. I emailed xlr this morning. I’ll give em a call tomorrow. My buddy that convinced me to build a custom has a defiance tenacity. Not sure if that’s a rem 700 clone too. I’ll reach out to him. Bout to take off the barreled action and see what’s going on. I’ll upload pics soon

 

[Ware'sTacticalFirearms]

The tenacity is a 700 clone also. Aside from the bedded recoil lug you would be able to interchange all of the above mentioned actions. Probably could with the lug bedded.

 

[Ccollins77]

So the smith is full of shit?

I really didn’t wanna say it because I’m ignorant on the subject, but I was getting that feeling. It’s a local company with a strong reputation in the area. They came recommended by a few different people. So I really don’t know. I’m sure I’ll be reaching back out to him pending on what I hear from xlr

 

[Im2bent]

I really didn’t wanna say it because I’m ignorant on the subject, but I was getting that feeling. It’s a local company with a strong reputation in the area. They came recommended by a few different people. So I really don’t know. I’m sure I’ll be reaching back out to him pending on what I hear from xlr

XLR should be able to clarify if your action should fit in their chassis without any problems then it gets interesting

 

[Gil P.]

Try your friends tenacity and see if it exhibits the same behavior.

If it does then it could be the bedding job or the chassis.

I've got a trued 700 with a custom barrel that doesn't sit straight in anything, but it shoots good out to 1000 yards so it doesn't bother me much. If it was a custom action, I'd be pissed off though.

 

[Shooter71]

Alignment down the channel also depends on the method used for dialing the barrel. If they dialed at two points at the chamber end only, and didn’t index on the vertical plane can show up, if the barrel has a little English in it. I’d ask the shop to remove the bedding and see how it sits in the v block, or place it in another unbedded chassis and see. If it’s consistently crooked it’s likely in the barreled action, either barrel or action face. Yes, even ”custom” actions can have crooked faces. If it’s straight in another chassis, then obviously it’s the chassis. In a fiberglass stock you deal with that during bedding. Not ideal in a v block chassis.

 

[Im2bent]

For everyone talking about indexing the barrel are you seriously saying barrels routinely curve a 1/16 " inch or more over a 24 inch length?

 

[SonoranPrecision]

For everyone talking about indexing the barrel are you seriously saying barrels routinely curve a 1/16 " inch or more over a 24 inch length?

Yes. In fact I have a Bartlein with about 1/16 at the end of the chassis, about the 16” mark. The rifle shoots in the .3’s

 

[Wannashootit]

Trigger also isn’t centered and it’s sitting on the same side as the barrel

Chassis inletting is off center.
WTF else could it be?

Has absolutely nothing to do with the barrel, or the smith from what I see.
Squarely on XLR.

 

[b6graham]

Trigger also isn’t centered and it’s sitting on the same side as the barrel

that makes less sense

if the whole barreled action was angled slightly the trigger would be closer on the opposite side that the barrel is

 

[XLR308]

Chassis inletting is off center.
WTF else could it be?

Has absolutely nothing to do with the barrel, or the smith from what I see.
Squarely on XLR.

Varified by what ?

 

[Baron23]

Just left the gunsmith and he’s saying that this chassis is made for a Remington 700 and my custom action isn’t exactly the same as a Remington 700. I thought the origin was a 700 clone? He says the barreled action is 100% true and accuracy shouldn’t be effected that it’s going to be cosmetic only. I asked him about the bedding and he said he only bedded the recoil lug so there isn’t much compound to effect it. He’s standing by his work

This has prob been beat to death, but from Bighorn's website:

"ORIGIN features the same footprint as a Remington Model 700 action to allow for easy installation into most stocks and chassis as well as utilizing the same trigger configuration as a Remington Model 700."​

​

So, I'm throwing out the BS flag on your smith's statement about the action's compatibility.

 

[Gil P.]

I'm sure the OP will end up sending his chassis back. Sometimes stuff happens.

@Ccollins77
Are you going to have your friend try out his rifle in your stock to see how it fits? And "no homo" of course.

 

[Ccollins77]

I'm sure the OP will end up sending his chassis back. Sometimes stuff happens.

@Ccollins77
Are you going to have your friend try out his rifle in your stock to see how it fits? And "no homo" of course.

Yes sir as soon as we get the time, we’re gonna swap our stocks and see what happens. Busy time of the year for me at work so not really sure when that will happen. I called xlr today and couldn’t get through to anybody. I’m sure it’s because we’re going into a holiday weekend. I’ll try them again next week. I went to take out the barreled action last night and found my wrench doesn’t have a big enough head for the action screws. I’ll be hitting the hardware store this weekend. I didn’t wanna take it apart and can’t torque it back down to specs since I wanna try and shoot it again some point this weekend

 

[Ccollins77]

This has prob been beat to death, but from Bighorn's website:

"ORIGIN features the same footprint as a Remington Model 700 action to allow for easy installation into most stocks and chassis as well as utilizing the same trigger configuration as a Remington Model 700."​

​

So, I'm throwing out the BS flag on your smith's statement about the action's compatibility.

I thought so as well. But it’s the element 4.0 magnesium chassis. I ordered the 3.0 but they sent me the newest model. Maybe there’s a mistake with the first line of the new model? As @Gil P. said sometimes stuff happens. Idk. I’ll get it figured out soon

 

[Gil P.]

Yes sir as soon as we get the time, we’re gonna swap our stocks and see what happens. Busy time of the year for me at work so not really sure when that will happen. I called xlr today and couldn’t get through to anybody. I’m sure it’s because we’re going into a holiday weekend. I’ll try them again next week. I went to take out the barreled action last night and found my wrench doesn’t have a big enough head for the action screws. I’ll be hitting the hardware store this weekend. I didn’t wanna take it apart and can’t torque it back down to specs since I wanna try and shoot it again some point this weekend

You can always put a witness mark on your screws and surrounding metal.
I like the new Borka torque wrench. I've heard good stuff about Fixit sticks too. Those are some items that you're really going to want. I'm sure you're going to have to remove your scope rings to adjust your eye relief, and you'll need a torque wrench to put it back together properly.

Ilya Koshkin under the name DarkLordofOptics on YouTube has a good video on it if you're unfamiliar.

 

[Ccollins77]

You can always put a witness mark on your screws and surrounding metal.
I like the new Borka torque wrench. I've heard good stuff about Fixit sticks too. Those are some items that you're really going to want. I'm sure you're going to have to remove your scope rings to adjust your eye relief, and you'll need a torque wrench to put it back together properly.

Ilya Koshkin under the name DarkLordofOptics on YouTube has a good video on it if you're unfamiliar.

I get ads for that fixit stick constantly lol I might give it a try. I just have a fat wrench to torque my scope rings down. None of the heads were large enough for the action screws. I’ll give that video a look. Thanks for the advice amigo