Cutting barrel to 16"-18" from 26" and twist rate for 6.5 Creedmore

[Boatninja]

This is a continuation of a discussion that was on reloader forum. I am pondering cutting a 26" barrel to super short length, after a wealth of input I have pretty much settled on 6.5 Cr for cartridge, now instead of waiting for a barrel to be built I'm researching cutting a 26" barrel down. Any thoughts on this and also seeking Info on twist rates? In addition, the contour thing is a bit confusing, Palma, Varmint etc.

 

[Buzzbee]

watching

 

[Supersubes]

On the barrel you’re going to cut down, what is the twist rate? What bullets do you plan to shoot?

The general concensus is to speed up the twist the shorter you go, but there are other factors like your elevation, usage/bullet choice etc.

What is confusing about the contours? The barrel makers give the dimensions for each. Palma blanks are typically long barrels ~30” at thereabouts, and taper quickly near the breech initially, and then gently taper to the muzzle. For example, a medium palma is near identical to a Remington varmint/sendero. The varmint tapers are typically straight tapers, and heavier than palma if the breech and muzzle diameters are the same. Many of the barrel makers use similar names and numbering systems, but that does not mean the dimensions are identical.

 

[Boatninja]

I don’t have a barrel or a twist rate that is precisely why I am asking and I don’t know which bullets I am going to shoot but lean towards lighter ones. And then you just stated the exact quandary that different manufacturers have different numbers and names etc. that are not the same as other manufacturers. The whole idea here is to gather information. I have a gun shop with numerous twist rates in barrels and 6.5 Creedmore on the shelf. But what exactly is the wisdom in cutting a 26 inch barrel to say 18? You just pretty much re-stated all my questions. I am obviously a novice at this, you have to start somewhere.

 

[supercorndogs]

If you look around on the manufacture sights, you will find specs for their contours. Most get around remington varmint/ medium palma. Some go a little heavier with M24, MTU, or heavy palma. Cutting from 26 to 18 you will lose velocity. 1 in 8 should do. Especially if you are planing on 100-130. I would think you would be fine with the 140 and 143 bullets also.

When they build a barrel, they will be cutting a longer barrel down. With a quality barrel there should be no problems.

 

[Supersubes]

This is why I was asking clarifying questions. You said you had a 26” barrel, you did not say you had a whole bunch of barrels, and I don’t understand why you wouldn’t know the twist rates, but whatever....

There is no quandary whatsoever in the different manufacturer dimensions. You simply pick the one you want of their chart. 8 is the go-to twist, but some go as fast as 7 twist. To me it doesn’t matter, as I’ve never seen the difference On target. Light bullets, 8 will be fine. Wisdom for a short barrel? Short is handy but sacrifices speed, nothing more. If you want us to reason through it for you, at least tell us what you’re going to do with it...

 

[spife7980]

Answers abound if you search.

For the effects of cutting down a barrel read this- In general expect about ~200 fps difference between the 26 and the 18"
https://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-...el-length-on-velocity-cutting-up-a-creedmoor/

To see how that effects your trajectory down range plug your data in here
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

As for calculating what that loss of velocity does for your stability use these calculators. You enter the info and it tells you the answer, change a variable and it tells you the new answer.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

For contours you are eright, each manufacturer have their own specifics but they are all pretty close to one another generally.
https://bartleinbarrels.com/contours/
https://kriegerbarrels.com/contours#show-bolt-all
http://pac-nor.com/contours/ etc


Think of it as a throwing a football, you want it to fly smoothly in a line, if it doesnt then the ass end can start to try and overtake the front and lead to tumbling.
If you dont spin it enough it flys like a wounded duck.
If it doesnt go fast enough it starts to fly like a wounded duck.
You need to throw it a combination of hard enough and fast enough, the slower it goes the more you need to spin it and if its going fast enough you need to spin it less. The heavier the bullet the more it needs to spin. 8 twist should do anything you want in a 6.5 caliber though.

 

[xphunter]

Choose the same twist rate you would for a longer length.
What bullet(s) do you want to shoot?
Been going with 7.5 lately myself in 6.5's with barrels from 15-18 inches
Older barrels are 8T

 

[Boatninja]

Answers abound if you search.

For the effects of cutting down a barrel read this- In general expect about ~200 fps difference between the 26 and the 18"
https://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-...el-length-on-velocity-cutting-up-a-creedmoor/

To see how that effects your trajectory down range plug your data in here
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

As for calculating what that loss of velocity does for your stability use these calculators. You enter the info and it tells you the answer, change a variable and it tells you the new answer.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

For contours you are eright, each manufacturer have their own specifics but they are all pretty close to one another generally.
https://bartleinbarrels.com/contours/
https://kriegerbarrels.com/contours#show-bolt-all
http://pac-nor.com/contours/ etc


Think of it as a throwing a football, you want it to fly smoothly in a line, if it doesnt then the ass end can start to try and overtake the front and lead to tumbling.
If you dont spin it enough it flys like a wounded duck.
If it doesnt go fast enough it starts to fly like a wounded duck.
You need to throw it a combination of hard enough and fast enough, the slower it goes the more you need to spin it and if its going fast enough you need to spin it less. The heavier the bullet the more it needs to spin. 8 twist should do anything you want in a 6.5 caliber though.

Good info in the links, thank’s for your time to share....

 

[Boatninja]

Jus t to answer and reply to several guys, My altitude is approximately 600’, what is my purpose? I finally have time and money at this point in my life to pursue my passsion for accurate bolt guns and it might keep me out of the bars. ) I am going to copy a post that I made on the hand loading forum. I am getting into loading next
As far as cutting down a 26’ barrel, one barrel builder indicated that it would be better if they built the barrel to my spec’s because of some variation as to the location of the bore in the middle of the barrel, it seems they concentrate on where the bore goes in and where it comes out and what happens in between can vary, how much that variation equates to accuracy at 1000 yds I don’t know. The gun shop is an hour drive away, they are checking to see what twists they have in stock, they are the best stocked gun shop that I know of in South Texas I just don’t really want to wait a couple of months for one to be made. I am fully aware of velocity drops as there is much online info. Just seeking first hand info from experienced people. From what I have gotten I am thinking 6.5 Creedmore with a 1:7-8 twist, it must be at least 16.5 inched long to be legal.

 

[Boatninja]

This is why I was asking clarifying questions. You said you had a 26” barrel, you did not say you had a whole bunch of barrels, and I don’t understand why you wouldn’t know the twist rates, but whatever....

There is no quandary whatsoever in the different manufacturer dimensions. You simply pick the one you want of their chart. 8 is the go-to twist, but some go as fast as 7 twist. To me it doesn’t matter, as I’ve never seen the difference On target. Light bullets, 8 will be fine. Wisdom for a short barrel? Short is handy but sacrifices speed, nothing more. If you want us to reason through it for you, at least tell us what you’re going to do with it...

 

[xphunter]

Jus t to answer and reply to several guys, My altitude is approximately 600’, what is my purpose? I finally have time and money at this point in my life to pursue my passsion for accurate bolt guns and it might keep me out of the bars. ) I am going to copy a post that I made on the hand loading forum. I am getting into loading next
As far as cutting down a 26’ barrel, one barrel builder indicated that it would be better if they built the barrel to my spec’s because of some variation as to the location of the bore in the middle of the barrel, it seems they concentrate on where the bore goes in and where it comes out and what happens in between can vary, how much that variation equates to accuracy at 1000 yds I don’t know. The gun shop is an hour drive away, they are checking to see what twists they have in stock, they are the best stocked gun shop that I know of in South Texas I just don’t really want to wait a couple of months for one to be made. I am fully aware of velocity drops as there is much online info. Just seeking first hand info from experienced people. From what I have gotten I am thinking 6.5 Creedmore with a 1:7-8 twist, it must be at least 16.5 inched long to be legal.

What twist rate is your 26" barrel?
How accurate is it currently?

 

[Boatninja]

I was trying to reply to everyone but got lost, Ya'll have my head spinning, this is certainly a way to get a lot of info fast. My brother has a 6.5 Cr with a 20 inch barrel that he wishes he would have gone shorter. Ok I'm thinking 6.5 something with a 16" to 18" barrel. Cartridge and twist rates next? Like I posted earlier THIS IS MY LAST RIFLE! so I have to get it right. I have a Mausingfield action with a Barloc barrel change system, currently with a 6mm Creedmore barrel, so I just need a barrel, short . I currently have a .223 16", love it just not enough POP. Then .17 Rem centerfire, 220 swift this one has been responsible for the demise of uncountable furry creatures , .243, 6mm Creedmore, .25-35 Win. lever, .270, 2- .308's, and 7mm Mag, all with 24"-26" barrels all sub MOA rifles. So it is blatantly obvious that I need a 6.5! My wife even agrees.
BTW I have a Steyr SSG69 in .308 and a Sako L61R that are for sale, I just can't shoot them anymore due to back injuries and need to buy reloading equipment.

What twist rate is your 26" barrel?
How accurate is it currently?

. I might as well say it again, I don’t have a barrel or a twist rate, there is a shop an hour Drive away from me with multiple barrels in multiple twist rates

 

[Supersubes]

I agree with that barrel manufacturer you spoke to that It’s better have a barrel made to length, as opposed to cutting a bunch off a long barrel.


Most everyone does their 6.5’s in the 22” to 26” range. If you absolutely need it to be compact, light weight, or you never get out beyond a few hundred yards, then go short. If you don’t have any of those needs, don’t hamstring yourself.

 

[xphunter]

I was trying to reply to everyone but got lost, Ya'll have my head spinning, this is certainly a way to get a lot of info fast. My brother has a 6.5 Cr with a 20 inch barrel that he wishes he would have gone shorter. Ok I'm thinking 6.5 something with a 16" to 18" barrel. Cartridge and twist rates next? Like I posted earlier THIS IS MY LAST RIFLE! so I have to get it right. I have a Mausingfield action with a Barloc barrel change system, currently with a 6mm Creedmore barrel, so I just need a barrel, short . I currently have a .223 16", love it just not enough POP. Then .17 Rem centerfire, 220 swift this one has been responsible for the demise of uncountable furry creatures , .243, 6mm Creedmore, .25-35 Win. lever, .270, 2- .308's, and 7mm Mag, all with 24"-26" barrels all sub MOA rifles. So it is blatantly obvious that I need a 6.5! My wife even agrees.
BTW I have a Steyr SSG69 in .308 and a Sako L61R that are for sale, I just can't shoot them anymore due to back injuries and need to buy reloading equipment.
. I might as well say it again, I don’t have a barrel or a twist rate, there is a shop an hour Drive away from me with multiple barrels in multiple twist rates

Sorry about that.
Go with a 7.5 or 8T and have fun

 

[Boatninja]

Sorry about that.
Go with a 7.5 or 8T and have fun[/QUO

This is why I was asking clarifying questions. You said you had a 26” barrel, you did not say you had a whole bunch of barrels, and I don’t understand why you wouldn’t know the twist rates, but whatever....

There is no quandary whatsoever in the different manufacturer dimensions. You simply pick the one you want of their chart. 8 is the go-to twist, but some go as fast as 7 twist. To me it doesn’t matter, as I’ve never seen the difference On target. Light bullets, 8 will be fine. Wisdom for a short barrel? Short is handy but sacrifices speed, nothing more. If you want us to reason through it for you, at least tell us what you’re going to do with it...

This is from yesterday

Thank's guys, I'm leaning towards the 6-6.5mm stuff, just for more input from my end, the ranches I am shooting on are mostly High fence ranches that range from a few hundred acre family type places to over 10,000 acre trophy ranches. Long shots for deer are a no-no due to problems with making accurate evaluations, ( shooting a nubbin buck that might turn into a monster would be grounds for being run off forever) and most shots are neck shots so light accurate calibers are great. Hogs and predators take any shot no matter how far, thus short barrel, to get it out the window of blind or truck fast. I also am suppressing everything now, on smaller high fence ranches it is less alarming to other deer. I have a 6mm Cr with a 22" barrel that is as good as it gets accuracy wise but add a can and it is LONG. The casual shooting competitions run from punching paper and ringing steel to wagering on who can hit closest to the left ear or something similar. Most of the high fence places have aggressive game management programs, removing large numbers of does and inferior bucks according to what the nutrition of the range can support as recommended by Biologists and approved by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept. The answer might be a shorter barrel in same caliber. Keep it coming, so much wisdom and experience here and I am soaking it up like a sponge.

 

[Joshf303]

Build a 18" CM with an 8 twist and don't look back....

The velocity loss is an easy trade off for handiness in a suppressed rifle. The 6.5 CM handles being chopped short rather well and with the right powders and handloads, some of that can be recovered. The shortest I had run for years was a 20" suppressed, but after recently cutting down an 8 twist .223 to 16.5" and adding an 18" 6.5 CM barrel to the queue, I don't foresee going back.

FWIW, I'm at 200' ASL on the Tx coast and haven't had any problems stabilizing the 140-147s out of any other short CM, 260, 6.5x47L that I've loaded for. That current 18" barrel is running 140 AMaxes at 2720 and 123 Scenars at 2840...which doesn't suck.

 

[Boatninja]

Build a 18" CM with an 8 twist and don't look back....

The velocity loss is an easy trade off for handiness in a suppressed rifle. The 6.5 CM handles being chopped short rather well and with the right powders and handloads, some of that can be recovered. The shortest I had run for years was a 20" suppressed, but after recently cutting down an 8 twist .223 to 16.5" and adding an 18" 6.5 CM barrel to the queue, I don't foresee going back.

FWIW, I'm at 200' ASL on the Tx coast and haven't had any problems stabilizing the 140-147s out of any other short CM, 260, 6.5x47L that I've loaded for. That current 18" barrel is running 140 AMaxes at 2720 and 123 Scenars at 2840...which doesn't suck.

YES, this is the type of info I wanted/needed to hear. It would be great to consult more on this, I have decided against cutting down an existing barrel, (for the moment) and will probably order a 1:17.5 soon, maybe today. I'm still pondering some. I rarely shoot unsuppressed anymore. What area of the coast are you on, I'm in Port A. I don't know if there is a way to pm on this site, but would like to communicate further. It is hard for people that don't hunt here to wrap their mind around our style of hunting, riding in vehicles, making long, fast, out-the-window shots, hog eradication etc.

 

[Primus]

What is the point? Velocity is everything and unless you have some niche application then you are just pissing away capability for what? If weight is an issue go down in contour not length. If overall length is an issue with a can, you can still run 24" plus can and be more than manageable.

I always equate these threads to someone asking to put a 14 inch barrel on a Glock 17....why? To shoot further? Well if that's your goal that choose a different tool.

When shooting LR, no one ever said ya know I wish I had less range, energy, more drift,ext.

 

[alaskalanche]

Why stop at 24? Why not 30+" or longer? I mean the more barrel the more velocity. Why is sacrificing the velocity you'd lose with a 24" over a 30" acceptable, but the velocity you lose with a 18" over a 24" not acceptable? Why is 24" magic in your mind? Sometimes handy and light works better for different applications. I agree if shooting as long as possible then longer barrel is better. Just depends on the useage right?

I mean I have to dial 8.5 Mils and hold 1.7 wind at 1K yards at sea level in a 10 mph wind with my 18" 6.5 CM and 147 ELD.

My 24" 6.5 CM I dial 7.4 Mils and hold 1.6 wind with the same 147 just going 150 fps faster.

Yeah the extra 6" of barrel wins no doubt...but I can tell ya right now which one is coming up the mountain with me when I go sheep hunting.

 

[TexLuke]

What is the point? Velocity is everything and unless you have some niche application then you are just pissing away capability for what? If weight is an issue go down in contour not length. If overall length is an issue with a can, you can still run 24" plus can and be more than manageable.

I always equate these threads to someone asking to put a 14 inch barrel on a Glock 17....why? To shoot further? Well if that's your goal that choose a different tool.

When shooting LR, no one ever said ya know I wish I had less range, energy, more drift,ext.

If I’m understanding correctly, the OPs primary purpose for this rifle is hunting ranches in Texas. For these hunting puroses, out of box blinds or at targets of opportunity out of vehicles, I can tell you anything longer than 24” overall barrel length including the can is sub optimal. It’s just not anything like shooting at the range or varmint hunting from a bench. 24” plus a can, even a short one like my SAS barricade or ultra 7 is not at all handy when trying to maneuver it within an enclosed space, or carry it through brush.

I primarily use my rifles the same way and I’m going shorter and shorter with each one I put together.

Of course what this means is a guy needs to have purpose built rifles as I know what you’re saying is correct when it comes to building a true long range target rifle

 

[spife7980]

I get what he’s saying, driving around with the rifle on the dash or on the console and trying to whip it out the window to shoot down a sendero real fast is tough. My first 223 was a 16” for that purpose and now I have taken that even further with a 10.5” sbr. Shorter is so much handier when you’re driving the roads looking to wander up on or spring something across the road.

He’s also not going to be shooting it like that much over 300 yards so the loss of velocity is inconsequential compared to not being able to get your shot off in the first place.

That said the guy has an awful lot of shit already from what he’s said and I think he’s just looking to do something for the fun of it so I’ll vote again twice to just go ahead and do it. Sure other thing might be better but they wouldn’t be this thing he seems queued in on.

 

[Boatninja]

If I’m understanding correctly, the OPs primary purpose for this rifle is hunting in ranches in Texas. For these hunting puroses, out of box blinds or at targets of opportunity out of vehicles, I can tell you anything longer than 24” overall barrel length including the can is sub optimal. It’s just not anything like shooting at the range or varmint hunting from a bench. 24” plus a can, even a short one like my SAS barricade or ultra 7 is not at all handy when trying to maneuver it within an enclosed space, or carry it through brush.

I primarily use my rifles the same way and I’m going shorter and shorter with each one I put together.

Of course what this means is a guy needs to have purpose built rifles as I know what you’re saying is correct when it comes to building a true long range target rifle

Well said TexLuke. Thank’s, you have kinda pinned down what I was trying to do, and I didn’t know what that was. It is to be a purpose-built rifle and I have pretty much decided I was going with a 16.5” w/ 7.5” twist, I have made arrangements to buy a friends loading gear and I’m going for it. A couple of guys have come back with some pretty good info regarding loads etc that were way over my head but helpful, which is the reason I started here. Criterion Barrrels people told me they are getting more and more orders for shorter barrels and fast twists. I’m going for it. Some people want to help you figure it out and some people just want you to do whatever they are doing. Nobody came back and said they had a match grade, 6.5, 16.5” barrel made and it just sucked.............. Ya know, if it doesn’t work, I wonder if I need a permit from the Gmmint to carry a match grade barrel under the seat of my car?

 

[TexLuke]

Sounds like figured out what you want, have fun putting it together. I’ll bet it don’t suck...

 

[Boatninja]

Dammit, I’m still thinking about cutting this 6mm Cr barrel down to 16.5” and going for it.,

 

[Scotch_egg]

Looks like you are going for it. Please keep us updated with how it turns out.

 

[Joshf303]

Spife, Luke, and Lanche are spot on.....

Ninja, I PMd you my phone number.

 

[502Chevelle]

Call Bob over at Southwest Precision in AZ. He keeps some barrels in stock and could even cut it down for you. He’s not too far, and UPS would have it to you in a jiffy.

 

[Boatninja]

Once again thanks to all reply’s. It got pretty far off of the original question, so I will try to clarify, two barrelmakers said that they would not recommend cutting a bored blank, but would take a cut to length blank and bore it because they concentrate on the precision of where the bit goes in the blank and where it comes out. There is some variation in what takes place in between those two points that might effect accuracy att long range. Whether or not I was going to have a short barrel was a foregone conclusion. There are plenty of 26” barrels around that I could cut in a matter of days rather than wait 6-8 weeks for a true “custom” barrel. TIME is the whole deal, at this point in life with my friends dropping like flies everything is taking on a sense of urgency. BTW Criterion will expedite production, that is boring a precut blank for an extra $100 producing a barrel cut to size THEN bored in 3-5 weeeks.

 

[Boatninja]

Spife, Luke, and Lanche are spot on.....

Ninja, I PMd you my phone number.

Yes, they are....

 

[Primus]

Why stop at 24? Why not 30+" or longer? I mean the more barrel the more velocity. Why is sacrificing the velocity you'd lose with a 24" over a 30" acceptable, but the velocity you lose with a 18" over a 24" not acceptable? Why is 24" magic in your mind? Sometimes handy and light works better for different applications. I agree if shooting as long as possible then longer barrel is better. Just depends on the useage right?

I mean I have to dial 8.5 Mils and hold 1.7 wind at 1K yards at sea level in a 10 mph wind with my 18" 6.5 CM and 147 ELD.

My 24" 6.5 CM I dial 7.4 Mils and hold 1.6 wind with the same 147 just going 150 fps faster.

Yeah the extra 6" of barrel wins no doubt...but I can tell ya right now which one is coming up the mountain with me when I go sheep hunting.

Now you are just being obtuse. Diminishing returns and if you are take nt a hunting gun up the mountain than 6.5c is one of the last cartridges to use on elk , sheep or big mulies

 

[Primus]

I get what he’s saying, driving around with the rifle on the dash or on the console and trying to whip it out the window to shoot down a sendero real fast is tough. My first 223 was a 16” for that purpose and now I have taken that even further with a 10.5” sbr. Shorter is so much handier when you’re driving the roads looking to wander up on or spring something across the road.

He’s also not going to be shooting it like that much over 300 yards so the loss of velocity is inconsequential compared to not being able to get your shot off in the first place.

That said the guy has an awful lot of shit already from what he’s said and I think he’s just looking to do something for the fun of it so I’ll vote again twice to just go ahead and do it. Sure other thing might be better but they wouldn’t be this thing he seems queued in on.

Then get a scar17 and be done with it. Less recoil, accurate and less weight and length than anything comparable. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel

 

[alaskalanche]

Now you are just being obtuse. Diminishing returns and if you are take nt a hunting gun up the mountain than 6.5c is one of the last cartridges to use on elk , sheep or big mulies

HAHA...sorry my intention wasn't to be obtuse. It was merely to trying to convey that short handy rifles have their uses and that randomly picking 24" as your choice barrel is fine if it fits your uses. I have a 24" 6.5 CM and I like it a lot. But I much prefer the 18" for carrying around. The 18" is still shucking 147s handloads faster than what factory loads come out of my 24" so am I really giving up anything there compared to a guy that doesn't handload with a 24"?

As far as the 6.5 CM not being a good choice for deer, sheep, and elk....well that is certainly your opinion and maybe you've had a bad experience with shooting game with the 6.5 CM. All I go off of is the experiences I have seen with it on game. Maybe the animals I have seen shot in the past 2 years with the 6.5 CM is a small sample size but it certainly doesn't seem to be a issue killing, moose, caribou, black bear, deer, sheep, and grizzly bears.

I have wished for shorter barreled rifles in the field especially when alder crashing with my pack on much more often than I wished I had my bullet going an extra 150 fps. One could argue that the 150 fps gain from an 18" to the magical 24" is diminishing returns at that point and for much of my uses it is.

 

[Joshf303]

Insinuating the 6.5 Creed with the right bullets isn't enough gun for elk, sheep, and big mulies at sane hunting distances is hilarious.....

 

[BoilerUP]

I had a 26" 1:8 twist Criterion Rem-Age prefit in 6.5 Creedmoor; a Hornady 140gr HPBT over 42.5gr H4350 in Hornady brass, lit by a CCI-200, gave me 2820fps.

I then had Isaac Frank of Southern Indiana Precision cut the barrel down to 18". Same load through the stub-nose barrel was 2640fps, for a loss of 180fps after a 8" haircut.

Factory Hornady 140gr Amax Match ammo was 2857fps in 26" form and 2662fps in 18" form.

I didn't compete, the longest I regularly have available to shoot is 650yd and was looking to make the rifle handier for hunting with a suppressor, so I really don't feel like I compromised much for MY needs.

 

[wade2big]

I had a 26" 1:8 twist Criterion Rem-Age prefit in 6.5 Creedmoor; a Hornady 140gr HPBT over 42.5gr H4350 in Hornady brass, lit by a CCI-200, gave me 2820fps.

I then had Isaac Frank of Southern Indiana Precision cut the barrel down to 18". Same load through the stub-nose barrel was 2640fps, for a loss of 180fps after a 8" haircut.

Factory Hornady 140gr Amax Match ammo was 2857fps in 26" form and 2662fps in 18" form.

I didn't compete, the longest I regularly have available to shoot is 650yd and was looking to make the rifle handier for hunting with a suppressor, so I really don't feel like I compromised much for MY needs.

Leave off the suppressor and now your rifle is actually handy. Noisy but handy.

I havent quite come around to shorter barrel lengths just yet. For suppressor use i see the light. For any other use not so much.

 

[BoilerUP]

Leave off the suppressor and now your rifle is actually handy. Noisy but handy.

I didn't think the report was all together that much worse than as a 26" rifle...

 

[Primus]

Insinuating the 6.5 Creed with the right bullets isn't enough gun for elk, sheep, and big mulies at sane hunting distances is hilarious.....

"Enough" and ethically taking game are not the same thing. I could kill any of them with a .223, doesn't mean I should try it.