D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

[robmc1976]

Hey guy's I just went to my usual website to pick up some .223 and this notice was on the opening page. What the Fuck. has anyone else heard about this. I hope this is the correct place to post this.

Attention!!


Due to new government regulations concerning the purchasing of surplus brass, we are removing sales of all 223 and all 308 until further notice. Below is a copy of the email we received from Government Liquidations.

"Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government. "

This is a huge waste of taxpayer's money. The value of these products is reduced by 80% by going from a recycled product to a scrap product.

CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN!!!!!!!!!

 

[btm_54]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

Yep the same information is on the reloading page of www.accuratereloading.com
Not good

 

[Marksman762]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

We're in for a fight! Call your reps, I will be after work.

 

[Two Shoes]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

Well, <span style="font-weight: bold">As PAUL HARVEY USED TO SAY..........................
The REST OF THE STORY....................</span>


<span style="font-weight: bold">Our Illustrious POTUS, signed an Executive Order on this, last THURSDAY................

DONE DEAL........Fini'</span>

What a 2nd Amendment friend we have as POTUS.............

Has anything this man said he was NOT going to do, been the truth.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Except for CHANGE, all else is LIES.</span>

 

[Lowlight]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

How many times you guys gonna post the same friggin story, what is this 6X now ?

Jeez, how about checking yourself before posting the same shit over and over...

 

[Two Shoes]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

Frank, haven't seen one thread about an EO......and I put a link from the only other one I saw, to this one..............?

 

[bcr229]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Two Shoes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, <span style="font-weight: bold">As PAUL HARVEY USED TO SAY..........................
The REST OF THE STORY....................</span>


<span style="font-weight: bold">Our Illustrious POTUS, signed an Executive Order on this, last THURSDAY................

DONE DEAL........Fini'</span></div></div>

Source? I looked through the list of all the EO's he signed, and didn't see anything after 03/11. Of course, the site just may not be updated yet.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

Shoes, I love ya like a brudder, but until somebody can show me an actual order supporting this claim on an actual government web site, I'm throwing the BS flag on this subject.

I think we've just been Chicken Littled one more time...; and <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> really pisses me off. I'd hate to think we can all be manipulated just that simply.

I say it's time to calm down, back up a step or two, take a few deep breaths, and stop parroting the latest rumor mill crap without some independent verification.

Greg

 

[rijndael]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

I don't see it in the National Archives listing:
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2009-obama.html

 

[robmc1976]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many times you guys gonna post the same friggin story, what is this 6X now ?

Jeez, how about checking yourself before posting the same shit over and over... </div></div>

Sorry Frank,
I looked back to 3-01-09 and this is what I found.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1046891#Post1046891

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1047360#Post1047360

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1047356#Post1047356

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1052651#Post1052651

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1047362&gonew=1#UNREAD
_________________________

 

[robmc1976]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shoes, I love ya like a brudder, but until somebody can show me an actual order supporting this claim on an actual government web site, I'm throwing the BS flag on this subject.

I think we've just been Chicken Littled one more time...; and <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> really pisses me off. I'd hate to think we can all be manipulated just that simply.

I say it's time to calm down, back up a step or two, take a few deep breaths, and stop parroting the latest rumor mill crap without some independent verification.

Greg </div></div>


this ain't from the Gov. but.......

http://georgia-arms.com/

 

[Two Shoes]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

Greg,
Lady that man's the phones at Geo Arms told me, flat out....and I said same as you.
She said, he signed it last Thursday.........
Maybe she made it up......
The owner (article in another thread here), said he was laying off 50% of staff, and calling all his LE customers that their .223 orders are now officially cancelled.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

wouldn't be the first to outright lie about something like this...

maybe it's time to start doing a bit of your own due diligence first. just a thought since lying about partisan political bullshit seems to be big business these days.

Seems a bit odd only GA Arms is the source on the subject.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

all this BS is making me look like a brass God

 

[dtask]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

On two other forums that I frequent, GA Arms is the sole source as well. If this is true, it is a colossal waste. If it's GA Arms talking shit, I'm done with them before I ever started.

 

[robmc1976]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

If this ends up being BS I aploigize, just trying to give a heads up.

 

[jasonk]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

GIBrass.com also had info on his site for a while under "brass" that mentioned he wasn't selling anything until he knew if his brass was coming. It's been changed to note that his incoming brass is still coming, but 223 is sold out. I'm kind of reading into it, but he doesn't sound to positive about getting more.

 

[vdub]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

From what I have read on other sites, the NRA contacted the DOD and DOD said it was a mess up in policy and they were looking into getting it corrected. There were no mentions of an EO being signed that caused this new policy from the DOD. It seems that if there was an EO signed, the DOD would have ended a bunch of misinformation by saying so.

I did write my Congress critters to let them know about the situation and to hopefully motivate them to look into it. Hopefully it really is all a misunderstanding and get rectified shortly!!

 

[Carphunter]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

I was doing my normal "Chickn Little" investigation when I saw this somewhere else. Tried calling the DRMS service center...but you get a generic call center that can't answer anything...they have to direct your quesiton to someone who knows... so wait and see.

In my conversation, though, the rep mentioned a commercial firm that must handle some of their auction/liquidaiton... and they have 223 and 308 brass auctions up that specifically state "doesn't require mutiliation) (sample auction) .

I don't mind contacting my congressman and senators...but I sure as shit want a verifiable paper trail to point to when I write to ask them to address an issue.

hopefully someone can come up with useful gov info on this.

EDIT/ADD - checked with that site to see if they could say what's up. One of their "live chat" agents would imply that whatever the auction listing says... the stuff's gotta be destroyed.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Agent: Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.

Me: so, it was an interpretation of an existing rule?

Agent: Yes, this is the new requirement for scrap material.</div></div>

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

It hasn't taken effect then......

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2247011&convertTo=USD

 

[Strickland]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

How hard is it to actually get something from Govt liquidation? Seems like some pretty cool stuff for not much money.

 

[Strickland]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rovieairto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It hasn't taken effect then......

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2247011&convertTo=USD </div></div>

WTF, this was good yesterday. Today it says it was pulled by the 'Sales Admin Team'

This raises alarm bells!!

 

[robmc1976]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Strickland</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rovieairto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It hasn't taken effect then......

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2247011&convertTo=USD </div></div>

WTF, this was good yesterday. Today it says it was pulled by the 'Sales Admin Team'

This raises alarm bells!! </div></div>

may not have been in effect yesterday but today this says requires mutilation

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2272021&convertTo=USD

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2263402&convertTo=USD

 

[bcr229]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

Rumor mill now has all brass 50-cal and lower as being designated demil Q starting ASAP.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=844248&page=11

 

[Bloody_Tailgate]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

Guys, this IS happening, I just got off the phone with a rep at Black Hills Ammunition and she informed me that at least one of thier distributors has informed them that they will no longet be able to provide them with once fired military brass....unthinkable

 

[Strickland]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

Might be a break on this... from another forum

Possible breaking news:

You might want to consider this as breaking news...

I don't post a lot around here and most of you have no idea who I am. Fact is, I'm an IT guy. A regular, run-of-the-mill computer jockey. But I happen to work for DOD Surplus/Government Liquidation. I've been told by my CEO that as of this morning the requirement to mutilate expended brass has been lift by virtue of a reclassification from Demil B to Demil Q. This applies to all calibers .50 and under. I'm still trying to get confirmation that .50 cal is included in the "safe to sell" list, or whether mutilation is still required.

I'm busy at work right now, but I will try to post back with more detail and updates when I get the chance.

Ed

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Strickland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Might be a break on this... from another forum

Possible breaking news:

You might want to consider this as breaking news...

I don't post a lot around here and most of you have no idea who I am. Fact is, I'm an IT guy. A regular, run-of-the-mill computer jockey. But I happen to work for DOD Surplus/Government Liquidation. I've been told by my CEO that as of this morning the requirement to mutilate expended brass has been lift by virtue of a reclassification from Demil B to Demil Q. This applies to all calibers .50 and under. I'm still trying to get confirmation that .50 cal is included in the "safe to sell" list, or whether mutilation is still required.

I'm busy at work right now, but I will try to post back with more detail and updates when I get the chance.

Ed </div></div>

Linky?

Thanks, Chris

 

[Strickland]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

Link

 

[RKBA]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

looks to be resolved, some mistep taken by someone at the DMRO or higher up. arfcom went into full battle-cry, tinfoil hats and all.

now apparently, it's being reversed.

 

[robmc1976]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

it apears to have been rectified

http://georgia-arms.com/

 

[BruceN]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

Yup, here's the letter:

-----Original Message-----
From: Cunningham, Mark (HQ DLA)
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 5:51 PM
To: Brian Blalock (Tester)
Cc: Glover, Rebecca (HQ DLA)
Subject: Small Arms Cartridge Cases
Brian,
We received your March 17, 2009, letter on the recent reclassification of small arms cartridges. Please advise whether the information provided below will suffice in lieu of a written response which will contain the same information.
The Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service (DRMS), a field activity of the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA), is the Department of Defense (DOD) activity responsible for the disposition of excess and surplus DOD Property.
The primary focus of the DRMS mission is to protect national security by ensuring property is properly identified for reutilization and disposition and not released for public sale when to do so would jeopardize national security.
During the past two years, DRMS revised its processes to further ensure only appropriate items were made available for public sale. To strengthen current controls and to mitigate future security risk, the DOD issued policy that prohibits the sale of military unique items controlled by the Department of State through its Munitions List.
Small arms cartridge cases are identified as a sensitive Munitions List item and were held pending review of the policy relating to the category of items in which cartridge cases were included. Upon review, the Defense Logistics Agency has determined the cartridge cases could be appropriately placed in a category of government property allowing for their release for sale.
The DRMS sales contractor has been notified of this decision and has begun the process of reoffering the cases that have been held pending completion of the policy review. As was previously required, buyers who purchase cartridge cases from the government must be approved to do so under Trade Security Controls.
v/r
Mark
Mark Cunningham
Legislative Affairs
Defense Logistics Agency

 

[Queequeg]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">During the past two years, DRMS revised its processes to further ensure only appropriate items were made available for public sale. To strengthen current controls and to mitigate future security risk, the DOD issued policy that prohibits the sale of military unique items controlled by the Department of State through its Munitions List.
Small arms cartridge cases are identified as a sensitive Munitions List item and were held pending review of the policy relating to the category of items in which cartridge cases were included. </div></div>

Seems the like the typical momentum of beaurcratic stupidity coupled with legal doubletalk: they thought they thought of everything except to tell us it was raining while they peed on our legs...

 

[Crashnrondo]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

my bad, you guys had it covered already

 

[Queequeg]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

I finally feel like having a drink. Happy Saint Patrick's day to you all.

Erin Go Bragh!

 

[Dirknar]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

our tax money makes this ammo in the first place.. this is OUR fucken brass..

 

[lrs50bmg]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

Aw.....sorry, didn't see the earlier post....


Got an email from a friend on the BOD of the NRA, and this issue has been resolved in our favor. I was asked not to release the specifics until an official annoncement is made by the NRA/ILA.

We still have some friends in the senate and DOD, but I cannot elaborate further at this time.

Once fired military brass WILL still be available.

Scott Nye

 

[lrs50bmg]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass


STATEMENT FROM NRA CHIEF LOBBYIST CHRIS W. COX
Military Surplus Cartridge Case Issue Resolved


Wednesday, March 18, 2009


Yesterday morning, the Department of Defense informed NRA-ILA that fired military small arms cartridge cases are once again eligible for sale, following a temporary suspension in such sales instituted last week. NRA-ILA began discussions with DoD shortly after the suspension took effect, and we were assured from the beginning that efforts were underway to resolve the issue favorably.

Yesterday afternoon, DoD additionally confirmed the lifting of the suspension to pro-Second Amendment United States Senators Max Baucus (D-Mont.) and Jon Tester (D-Mont.), who sent the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) a joint letter vigorously opposing the suspension, on the grounds that it had "an impact on small businesses who sell reloaded ammunition utilizing these fired casings, and upon individual gun owners who purchase spent military brass at considerable cost savings for their personal use."

Everyone who would have been impacted by the suspension, had it become permanent, owes thanks to Senator Baucus for his leadereship on this issue, as well as to Sen. Tester and U.S. Rep. Denny Rehberg (R-Mont.), who also weighed in strongly on behalf of gun owners and the suppliers from whom they obtain ammunition reloaded with surplus military brass.

In announcing that the suspension has been lifted, DoD also made clear that no cartridge cases that, in the absence of the suspension, would have been sold for reloading purposes were destroyed while the suspension was in effect. Such cases were instead protected by DoD during the suspension, and are again eligible for sale. With ammunition currently in short supply, that was welcome news, to be sure.

DLA also put to rest various theories and rumors that were circulated on the internet, concerning the reason for the suspension. As DLA explained to Senators Baucus and Tester, and to NRA-ILA, DoD officials responsible for the demilitarization of military property temporarily halted the release of the cartridge cases last week, pending review of a policy change issued last year by the Office of the Secretary of Defense, which, in the interest of national security, halted the sale of items within a broad category of government property including, but not limited to, surplus small arms cartridge cases.

To make cartridge cases eligible for sale once again, DoD demilitarization officials verified that the cases could be appropriately placed in a category of government property allowing for their release for use within the United States, and then executed the recategorization. Whereas during the brief suspension, fired cartridge cases would have been releaseable only if the purchaser crushed or smelted them, now the cases may be sold as before, intact and reloadable.

DoD also assured NRA-ILA that companies previously authorized to purchase cartridge cases under Trade Security Controls need no further vetting at this time, and are eligible to resume purchasing cases under the policy adopted yesterday.

In sum, a problem that could have had serious repercussions for the remanufactured ammunition industry and the countless gun owners who support it, appears to have been resolved quickly.

For more information:

http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/DLA.MilitaryBrass.pdf

http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/DLA_mcunningham.pdf

 

[RKBA]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

if i read things right on the arf'ers website, 50 and lower cases are back for sale. anything larger, i.e. 20mm's are still on the mutilation list as well as a few other items like dummy grenades.

 

[citysmasher]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

See this:

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=12244

The sale of un-mangled once fired military brass is back on track.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

.

 

[citysmasher]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

The local gun store was doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: D.O.D mutilation of once fired brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chicken Little is apparently still alive and well... </div></div>

Greg,

I think it was an end around that was thwarted by a public uproar. In this case I think it, the tinfoil, was justified. The bit about the State Dept. prompting this policy change was troubling.

Interesting that the bureaucracy is the agent of oppression, again, rather than the legislators who, as we all know, support our second ammendment rights.