Two is one, one is none, my brother. LOLI sent my Mask HD back to KGM for refinishing, and it arrived to them on 3/9... Dead Air said it should be a 1-2 day turn-around. Haven't heard back from anyone yet. Not really happy. Granted, this time-frame is a KGMade issue, and not a Dead Air issue, but I'll be messaging them again tomorrow to see if I can get an answer for ETA for getting my damn can back.
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Suppressors Dead Air Suppressor Quality
- Thread starter Arc Light
- Start date
Yeah, I have a few cans…I just bought #11 today…TBAC Magnus HUB. I’ve also got a TBAC 22 TD, but it just got certified like a week ago, so it will be a while. My Mask is the only rimfire can I already have my stamp for, that’s why I’m kind of impatient about it. But honestly, my biggest issue is not upholding your words… Don’t tell me 1-2 day turnaround, and 2 weeks later I haven’t heard Jack-shit from anyone. That’s frustrating. Especially when I expected to have it back by now.
Good luck, all three of my Nomad Ti’s had a bad weld and it took more than 5 months, so longer than the fucking ATF took to approve them, for KGM to get off their lazy asses and fix them after they repeatedly used the reserved parts to ship new cans instead.I sent my Mask HD back to KGM for refinishing, and it arrived to them on 3/9... Dead Air said it should be a 1-2 day turn-around. Haven't heard back from anyone yet. Not really happy. Granted, this time-frame is a KGMade issue, and not a Dead Air issue, but I'll be messaging them again tomorrow to see if I can get an answer for ETA for getting my damn can back.
And to add insult to injury they were too fucking lazy to bother cleaning the sand blast media out so the first time I used it to check zero I ended up having to tear my entire rifle apart to get the media out of the barrel, action threads, raceway, bolt, trigger and stock then spend several hours washing the cans to get the rest of it out and scrubbing the threads repeatedly to make sure the mounts didn’t get locked into the can due to the grit in the threads.
Dead Air ended up giving me several hundred dollars worth of Xeno Mounts and adaptors for all three cans to make up for it so they did their best to make it right in the end.
So as far as I’m concerned I like Dead Air but KGM can get fucked.
@Mageever Hey bud, any way to find out where the process might be at? It’s just a simple respray with cerakote, so nothing major. Not trying to rush the process, but was told 1-2 days once received, and Thursday will be 14, and no word. I know this isn’t y’all’s fault, it’s KGM, but curious to know if y’all have any connections to find out what’s going on down there? Any help is appreciated. Thanks man. 
The perils of going with a suppressor company that doesn't even manufacture their own suppressors...
Some of these issues can happen with any reputable (or otherwise) company. Several years back I sent a r700 action to get some work done by a very popular precision rifle muzzle device company in the midwest. It was a fluting and bolt handle threading job. Ended up just having them send it back with just the bolt handle threaded and noticed my action went from smooth to feeling stiff and "gritty". Ended up taking the bolt apart to find metal shavings in there. Easy fix but was a little put off. Worked out in the end because I found LRI for the first time when I sent them the action for bolt fluting and their service/comms was hands down the best.
But yeah, extended lead times and bad comms are the norm in this hobby. A few places could take notes from Chad on how to keep the customer updated without sitting by the phone/computer all day.
But yeah, extended lead times and bad comms are the norm in this hobby. A few places could take notes from Chad on how to keep the customer updated without sitting by the phone/computer all day.
@Mageever Hey bud, any way to find out where the process might be at? It’s just a simple respray with cerakote, so nothing major. Not trying to rush the process, but was told 1-2 days once received, and Thursday will be 14, and no word. I know this isn’t y’all’s fault, it’s KGM, but curious to know if y’all have any connections to find out what’s going on down there? Any help is appreciated. Thanks man.
For sure man. Please PM me your RMA number or SN and I'll harass the shit out of them. I think 1-2 days was probably not a wise thing to quote. That tends to be there internal lead time when they have that op up and running. They may be waiting for a production batch to come through.
Thanks bud! You’re the man!
Yeah, that lead time sounded too good to be true, but I was just going by what was quoted me.
Mannnnn. There's no excuse for that. What we found from this is that they were running a separate warranty production path and they weren't following procedure by using the automated media blasting machine and instead used a manual system where they didn't plug the ends. Again, no excuse and I'm really glad we got you taken care of. You have to be the most patient customer I've ever had the pleasure of working with and I thank you for that sir.
Every time I consider another DA can I see these issues and take them back off the list. When they start making their own products I'll consider them again.
I'd like to take this opportunity to publicly thank everyone here that's a customer. I don't get to do that often, but it means a lot.
We've definitely had our fair share of quality issues as we've grown the last couple years. It's good to note that these are lagging indicators of what's going on. If something pops up today, it was an issue that snuck out of the plant last year and we've had time to identify it and fix it. Before all, we take care of our customers. If you have an issue--we'll get you taken care of. Our current production is looking really good with some great process improvements that were implemented. I think we're also shipping more product than anyone else in the market, and with the growing trend to show anything off online for the hivemind to process, we're seeing that one bad part out of thousands can really create a skewed perception of quality. It sucks, but it is what it is nowadays. We definitely grew a bit fast there and I believe process struggled to keep up and we've worked a lot with KGM to improve the quality.
By education and profession, I'm a manufacturing engineer, so process is near and dear to my heart. We may be outsourcing production to varying levels but that's always in flux. It's good to note that we've had to become VERY involved with manufacturing--to the point that I'm quite often on production floors around the country. We've also purchased a building in Utah where we now get hands-on with all accessories and suppressors before they go to any customers. Exciting things are coming!
We've definitely had our fair share of quality issues as we've grown the last couple years. It's good to note that these are lagging indicators of what's going on. If something pops up today, it was an issue that snuck out of the plant last year and we've had time to identify it and fix it. Before all, we take care of our customers. If you have an issue--we'll get you taken care of. Our current production is looking really good with some great process improvements that were implemented. I think we're also shipping more product than anyone else in the market, and with the growing trend to show anything off online for the hivemind to process, we're seeing that one bad part out of thousands can really create a skewed perception of quality. It sucks, but it is what it is nowadays. We definitely grew a bit fast there and I believe process struggled to keep up and we've worked a lot with KGM to improve the quality.
By education and profession, I'm a manufacturing engineer, so process is near and dear to my heart. We may be outsourcing production to varying levels but that's always in flux. It's good to note that we've had to become VERY involved with manufacturing--to the point that I'm quite often on production floors around the country. We've also purchased a building in Utah where we now get hands-on with all accessories and suppressors before they go to any customers. Exciting things are coming!
I’d like to publicly thank Dead Air. I ended up having issues about two years back with a Sandman and end cap strikes and unfortunately they couldn’t give me a date for repair. They instead offered a Nomad as a replacement and I countered with the Nomad Ti, which they agreed to and months later ATF approved. Not ideal, but I think they made it right. I wouldn’t hesitate to consider Dead Air on my inevitable next suppressor purchase.
Ronin
That's awesome man! Glad to hear yall are growing and doing local QA/QC before shipping. I've got 4 DA cans, currently, and all have been phenomenal. My 2 favorites are the Nomad-LT and Mask HD. I think I shoot those 2 the most. The only issue I've had with a DA can was self-inflicted (sonic cleaner incident causing the Mask to need refinishing).
...The only issue I've had with a DA can was self-inflicted (sonic cleaner incident causing the Mask to need refinishing).
This is a great time for everyone to learn not to go full FuhQ on their cerakoted or nitrided parts by throwing them in an aggressive ultrasonic cleaner and/or use crazy chemicals--which I'm guessing he did too.
Well, I was smart enough to NOT put the titanium tube in there... Just the end cap and mount, along with the baffles. It's just easier to have them respray the whole can while they've got it's since it's been toted through the woods and shot A LOT. Plenty of scratches.This is a great time for everyone to learn not to go full FuhQ on their cerakoted or nitrided parts by throwing them in an aggressive ultrasonic cleaner and/or use crazy chemicals--which I'm guessing he did too.
In my defense, it did look kinda cool with that aged patina of the raw stainless…
Another big DA fan. Own a Sandman S and a Nomad Ti and have a Sierra in jail. Sandman sees the most use, and is switched between a number of AR15's, most with short barrels. Nomad Ti gets switched between two bolt guns and a 14.5" AR. Must have a couple of thousand rounds through the Sandman with zero issues. Probably overkill for how I shoot since I mostly run 10 round mags (thanks Colorado), don't really mag dump, and have recently been shooting in 0-10 degree weather, so I'm not exactly going to overheat the can. Still gives me some peace of mind that this the Sandman can handle anything I could conceivably throw at it, and actually balances pretty well on my SBR's. And the Nomad Ti is light as a feather and just has this great tone that makes it a pleasure to shoot.
Those actually look awesome. I'd have left it that way!Well, I was smart enough to NOT put the titanium tube in there... Just the end cap and mount, along with the baffles. It's just easier to have them respray the whole can while they've got it's since it's been toted through the woods and shot A LOT. Plenty of scratches.
In my defense, it did look kinda cool with that aged patina of the raw stainless…
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This.
I‘m up to can #12 and the Nomad LT I finally got out of ATF jail a couple weeks ago is almost my favorite; love the way it shoots and feels. Fantastic on 300BLK and 280AI so far; new scope arrives today, so good chance it’ll have some 300WSM pushed through it today.
Only thing holding it back from being my go-to, do everything can, is that I don’t want to run sustained strings of 6.8 or 5.56 (or .308 for that matter) through it …100% titanium can get ‘interesting’ once it’s hot enough to glow!
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Quoting you again because your post hasn't stopped being relevant. Every manufacturers has some issues now and then, that's life. DA seems to have them with every new product rollout. It also appears the only way end users receive decent support is by blasting DA publicly.
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Really?Well, I was smart enough to NOT put the titanium tube in there... Just the end cap and mount, along with the baffles. It's just easier to have them respray the whole can while they've got it's since it's been toted through the woods and shot A LOT. Plenty of scratches.
In my defense, it did look kinda cool with that aged patina of the raw stainless…
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thanks for reminding me why i'm not on Arfcom lol. Almost a step below reddit.Quoting you again because your post hasn't stopped being relevant. Every manufacturers has some issues now and then, that's life. DA seems to have them with every new product rollout. It also appears the only way end users receive decent support is by blasting DA publicly.
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I'm sorry, but this is just not correct. I'm not saying we haven't had some quality issues, but they've been tied more to production ramp up well into a products lifecycle than just just being a new product. And even then, they've been relatively small in proportion to the quantities made. I've had visibility of what we did at Silencerco back in the day and some of our returns pale in comparison to what has happened over there. My message is, a handful of failures that show up online on suppressors that have production volumes in the tens of thousands can give a false sense of what is actually getting in the hands of customers. Again, one failure is too many, but painting it like we just ship poor product is just a biased view because you've "seen stuff on the internet".
The real issue I have with what you said is that to get good customer service, somebody has to blast us publicly. This is absolutely not true. We do have some long lead times from the plant on some things and if a customer is having heartache with that, then yeah, I'll try and help. We're also in the middle of transitioning systems, moving into a new building, and taking a bunch of stuff from our manufacturing partner so I'll clean up a loose end if we've missed a customer along the way. I'm supposed to be working on new product design, but I'm taking a minute to jump on this forum because I care about the customer. Tell me that's wrong.
Some of you guys are hilarious. What I would guess is a top 2 or 3 manufacturer (by volume), has a few cans out in the wild with issues, and suddenly we are acting like there’s this big QC recall on their cans. Also if you think customers have to blast DA on a forum to get some service, you’ve obviously never picked up the phone to call or shoot them an email. I’ve never had an issue getting ahold of someone there. TBAC gets on here to help customers with issues and you fawn over it. TBAC also sells a fraction of the cans, usually at double the cost. I would hope you get phenomenal service from them, you fucking paid for it. DA gets on here to help customers with issues and it’s “yOu HaVe To BlAsT tHeM tO gEt Cs!”.
And L O L at linking a neckbeard circle jerk on Arfcom as an example
And L O L at linking a neckbeard circle jerk on Arfcom as an example
Also @FuhQ can correct me if I’m mistaken, but he wasn’t “blasting” anyone, sent a can in due to his own personal fuck up (it happens), was given a retarded lead time from KGM, didn’t hear back from KGM because of said retarded lead time, and got it resolved by a simple convo on here and it’s getting resolved, correct?
Is there anyone on here that has had an issue with a DA product and NOT had it taken care of? This would definitely be the time to share. With the volume they send out, the odds of nothing going wrong, especially with the logistics going on (described above), is unrealistic to me. Unless everyone wants every suppressor to cost $1k+, id say the occasional issue is respectable as long as the customer is taken care of.
Is there anyone on here that has had an issue with a DA product and NOT had it taken care of? This would definitely be the time to share. With the volume they send out, the odds of nothing going wrong, especially with the logistics going on (described above), is unrealistic to me. Unless everyone wants every suppressor to cost $1k+, id say the occasional issue is respectable as long as the customer is taken care of.
Not for nothing but this thread exists for a reason. It seems like putting out fires on forums is your full time job, I'm sure you get other things done but, Jesus, this has to be a massive time suck for you. You're going to fisticuffs with anonymous users on the internet about the severity of your defect rate. It's all a bad look. Well worded statements are tiresome, you said the same stuff when you walked away from Bergara.
I don't regret buying one of your cans but I wouldn't buy it over again either. The subcontracting issues are too much. I stand by my statement about having to take problems public to get resolution, this seems to happen fairly frequently. Here you are after all.
Arfcom certainly has it's faults but the silencer sub gets traffic. The thread I linked has users posting images of defective DA silencers. The title of this thread is "Dead Air Suppressor Quality" and I would think broken DA silencers is germaine to this thread. You don't need to agree, or like it, but it's right there in the open.
This is correct.
It was my own fuck up. I even admitted that, yet the pedantic douchebags on here still find a way to insult me.
Also, I was not “blasting DA”. I was simply stating that my quoted lead-time was seeming to get a bit long in the tooth. I was more curious as to where it was at in the refinishing process, because I had not heard back from the guy at Dead Air that quoted me that lead time.
Well, since we're generalizing about the defect rates of DA suppressors based on a couple of complaints, how about we give the same weight to posters who have had zero problems with their DA suppressors. As previously stated I own a Sandman S and a Nomad TI. Both have had no problems and the Sandman probably has 2000 rounds through it so far on everything from a 10.5" AR to an AR10 to a .308 bolt gun. Probably swapped between a half dozen guns 50 times. Keymo has worked great and no real significant shift in POI in all these swaps.
And I do have to say that I appreciate someone from DA whose willing to post on this forum and interact with his customers.
Finally, I have yet to hear of a serious QC issue that DA didn't make right. And yeah I get that it's a PITA to have to send a can back after waiting a year for it to clear ATF, but they do seem to stand behind their products.
And I do have to say that I appreciate someone from DA whose willing to post on this forum and interact with his customers.
Finally, I have yet to hear of a serious QC issue that DA didn't make right. And yeah I get that it's a PITA to have to send a can back after waiting a year for it to clear ATF, but they do seem to stand behind their products.
I had a small issue with a deadair can that was primarily my fault- I got another manufacturers muzzle device stuck on- threads were a bit off and I just farmer'd it on sideways
From email sent -> RMA -> in the shop > overnighted back was like 4 days and I went through the normal channels. I emailed on a Sunday and had it back by Thursday I think?
Only sketchy part was didn't get a tracking email saying it was coming back so I was totally shocked (but thrilled) when I received it back.
They gave me almost $100 of free stuff too.
No manipulation / grandstanding / public name and shame was necessary IME.
@Mageever Is this where we put our Dead air issues? Ok. I have a Wolverine I was hoping to run on my c39v2. The supplied 14x1 thread adapter is too shallow to allow the suppressor to engage with the muzzle brake detent on the rifle. No biggie, DA sells a “long” adapter for just this occasion. Well, it is also too shallow and the detent does not engage the lock ring on the suppressor when the threads bottom out on the can. Kind of a bummer that I have 2 adapters that don’t work, and now have to source a 3rd party solution. The upside, I suppose, is that I can convert the can to be compatible with my other rifles.
But, no issues with the nomad, so there is that…
But, no issues with the nomad, so there is that…
Dude that's been a pain for us too. We've tried a bunch of times to get specs from those guys and they refuse to tell us what their specs are and we've seen them vary all over the place. I'm hoping to update out our "long" thread adapter so it works for them soon, but it's going to be a little bit of a stab in the dark. Would you mind measuring what your barrel length is forward of the front sight post and then what the threaded distance is? Please PM me the info.
Thanks for the feedback!
Stick it on a Win Mag, that’s how my brother killed his SilencerCo Hybrid and his Nomad Ti.
“For lawyer purposes this is a joke”
Glad to hear their quality control is getting better and again I want to thank you for helping to get everything squared away. I’m is sales myself so I know how much it blows being stuck between a customer and a vendor hence the patience.
I ended up getting shafted on a job where I quoted 26 weeks after the vendor told us 16 weeks to give us more than enough time. The code shop doing the work then proceeded to jack us around to the point I had to spend 24 weeks past the quoted delivery date getting yelled at by the customer why their equipment wasn’t done and shipping.
Also while I’m on the topic fuck the Canadian Registration Number system, those fuckers turned what should have been a stock unit replacement into a fucking nightmare of a job due to their bullshit.
They call that "relic'd". Making things look used/worn and older than they really are. Guys in the guitar world pay big money for that! Maybe you're about to start a trend?In my defense, it did look kinda cool with that aged patina of the raw stainless…
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Battle-worn suppressor finishes. Started a new trend. Well, the pictures hide it well, but I've probably put 5,000 rounds through that can in the last 2 years, and it's been toted all through the woods and all over the place. So, it's earned every scratch it had on it. The odd part is, I cleaned my end cap and mount many many times in that time frame (well over a dozen), and never had any issues. I ran out of my cleaning material, so I substituted with another one that's supposed to be safe for Cerakote, and it stripped that shit right off like it had burnishing compound in it! I guess they changed up their recipe over the years, and my old bottle didn't have that compound in it. That new bottle cleans the shit out of some brass though, so I guess they did add a burnishing compound like we used to use at the machine guns range when I was working there running their processing plant. We would clean and process brass by the 5 gallon bucket at a time, and we had a huge vibratory parts washer with rubber lining adhered to the metal, and we used water, dawn, burnishing compound, and a cap full of LemiShine and that got those brass looking better than new! That burnishing compound was hellacious on carbon and anything else that contacted it.
You all heard here first. Six months from now when DA decides to release a limited edition finish run, he can say “I told you so” again.
Well, the pictures hide it well, but I've probably put 5,000 rounds through that can in the last 2 years, and it's been toted all through the woods and all over the place. So, it's earned every scratch it had on it. The odd part is, I cleaned my end cap and mount many many times in that time frame (well over a dozen), and never had any issues. I ran out of my cleaning material, so I substituted with another one that's supposed to be safe for Cerakote, and it stripped that shit right off like it had burnishing compound in it! I guess they changed up their recipe over the years, and my old bottle didn't have that compound in it. That new bottle cleans the shit out of some brass though, so I guess they did add a burnishing compound like we used to use at the machine guns range when I was working there running their processing plant. We would clean and process brass by the 5 gallon bucket at a time, and we had a huge vibratory parts washer with rubber lining adhered to the metal, and we used water, dawn, burnishing compound, and a cap full of LemiShine and that got those brass looking better than new! That burnishing compound was hellacious on carbon and anything else that contacted it.
Ref: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...w-have-the-hub-threads.7156952/#post-10692504
Oooh, aren't you slick.
And in your example, I was proven right, we don't need you to remind everyone. 
There is nothing wrong with SR or CB…If you’re already dedicated to it. But, most people aren’t. So evolutionarily, there is no going back from HUB, being that pretty much every company has now gone to it as the universal thread pattern. It is now the standard. There are so many people monetarily dedicated to so many other brands of mounting system, that (sales-wise) it would be like punching yourself in the nuts to reverse-course at this point. Facts are facts, HUB has become the evolution for mounting threads.
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TBAC has to stop production of presold runs, change production over, and then produce the HUB silencers just to cater to consumers dedicated to another brand's muzzle devices? You're right, it is like punching yourself in the nuts (and then lighting money on fire). I can't see that continuing unless TBAC finds itself with spare capacity.
I can't wait until we abandon HUB for some new HUB2.0 standard because we want to run bigger muzzle brakes or a manufacturer simply wants a larger thread pattern at the back of a 1.8" choad can.
Ho long before PRS rigs come with 1-3/8 x 24 muzzle threading?
The trend to huge threads seems silly to me. Seems to be a solution for a problem that doesn't exist - at least not in quality cut rifled barrels.
But the way we are going with 25+lb rifles and bigger and bigger threads, I wouldn't be surprised to see 2" OD barrels with 1-3/8x24 muzzle threading
I can’t seeing hub cans being in less demand than a 2’ long +$5k .50cal can either but they have time for that.
They “have to stop production of pre-sold runs”… Yeah, that’s how high-quality boutique suppressor manufacturing works…
I guess you’re not very familiar with manufacturing and production… First they made a run of X product, then they make a run of Y product, and then they make a run of Z product, etc… etc… in order to equally satisfy their sales. They chose to introduce HUB based on market demand to expand their sales to an ever-evolving suppressor market, I’m pretty sure if it was nothing more than a foreseeable moneypit, they would have opted to continue as they were. Obviously they saw feasibility in the numbers, and market interest projections to bring it to fruition.
Frank Green and Constructor have both posted about the “belling” that can occur at the muzzle when threading a barrel. Fatter threads mean less stock removal and less chance of the muzzle opening up when threaded. But, 1-3/8 might be overkill. I’m not putting it out of the realm of possibility.The trend to huge threads seems silly to me. Seems to be a solution for a problem that doesn't exist - at least not in quality cut rifled barrels.
But the way we are going with 25+lb rifles and bigger and bigger threads, I wouldn't be surprised to see 2" OD barrels with 1-3/8x24 muzzle threading
My understanding is that the probability of a thread belling out on a properly stress relieved cut rifled barrel is minimal.
But I will also admit that I don't have the knowledge or expertise to quantify what 'minimal' is in this context.
