Rifle Scopes Dead Bunnies.

[orkan]

I thought this might lighten the mood a bit around here.

Its 10 degrees with a -10 wind chill. The rabbits decided to hide on the down-wind side of the doghouse, where the sun is shining. South Dakota can get pretty hostile in the winter. They've been sitting there for about 6hrs now.

The scope is a Premier 5-25 GenII XR. Rabbits are 38yds away.

So, lets have a little fun. Rifle is a 18" 308 with 20MOA base shooting 175SMK @ 2650fps. Scope is zero'd for 100yds.

What do I dial or hold?

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Hold 0.3 mils low, and presto dinner.....

 

[ltpurcy]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

0.3 mils low


EDIT:

DAMN BOBIN! you beat me to it, i wanted to show off my new found skills.

 

[orkan]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Anyone else?

 

[orkan]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

That's what happens when I'm too fast, and don't use my reading glasses. I first read the clicks column (3) instead of the drop column (0.3) on my mechanical offset table........

Arrrgh....

 

[chpprguy]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

I applaud your picture taking skills,
nice through the scope pic....

 

[orkan]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Thanks... it was even through my dirty window.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

yummmyyyy wabbit stew

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aIaDMp76YH8"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aIaDMp76YH8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[7mmRM]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

If I were you, Id be gettin the fryin oil heated up. Then grab the 22LR, open the window and givem a lead pill to the noggin and then enjoy a tasty supper.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Inside 100 yards if you are holding "low' you are missing your shot... more then likely you will skip it in, if you're lucky.

Mechanical Offset dictates you hold "high" inside 70 yards.

Dialing it put your 300 yard dope on your rifle, give or take.

 

[308skinner]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Rabbit its whats for dinner!

 

[orkan]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Bingo!

With a 100 yard zero on a .308 you will always be holding high due to mechanical offset.

This is why if you are a LE Sniper you damn well better know your dope from 100-25 yards.

That and it's always fun to bet a "knowledgeable" long range shooter than he can't hit a quarter at 25 yards.

You can make some serious pop money that way.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you explain in more detail lowlight? I even checked the answer using bulletflight, and it reported -0.3 mils, which would indicate a low hold.

What am I missing? </div></div>

You are misreading it or you didn't input your mechanical offset correctly.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

That -0.3 isn't your hold, that's the trajectory of the round, it is indicating that the bullet is 0.3 mils low of your 100 zero, so you have to hold a little high to hit POA. I know that at 30 yards or so my bullet impact pretty much matches my 200 yard dope.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you explain in more detail lowlight? I even checked the answer using bulletflight, and it reported -0.3 mils, which would indicate a low hold.

What am I missing? </div></div>


Line of sight is ABOVE the bore line. THink about it.....

 

[orkan]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Time out

I'm a dumbass. I played it back in my head... and the thousands of critters I've shot up close I always hold high. Thats what I get for spending so much time looking at ballistic tables.

I've done it so much its instinctive. Probably why I couldn't think about it correctly. lol

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Height of the scope over bore...

Look at the trajectory arc for the rifle, the bullet is below the LOS and climbing until somewhere inside 70 yards to where it continues along the LOS path until about 109 yards... after which it falls below.

So, to hit a small target inside 70 yards, like at 38 yards, you hold "HIGH" approximately the height of the scope over the bore.

We did an 11ft 1" shot at one of our matches, competitors used their 1200 yard dope to hit that target point of aim, point of impact. Otherwise you hold about 2" over the target.

 

[858]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you explain in more detail lowlight? I even checked the answer using bulletflight, and it reported -0.3 mils, which would indicate a low hold.

I zero my 17HMR for 100yds, and routinely hold low to get hits at close range. If I hold high, I will absolutely miss.

What am I missing? </div></div>

If the scope were the actual bore of the rifle you would hold under. However, the scope sits over the bore so anything that close needs to be held over to account for the scope height over the bore.

 

[orkan]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

^ yeah... I got it. Thanks

If you just handed me a gun zero's for 100 and told me to shoot it... I'd take that rabbits eye out. Done it countless times out that same window. Obviously this is why I'm not a trainer.

 

[ltpurcy]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lol... bingo.

However, I must point out that if you were the spotter, that would have been a miss.

A BIG miss. lol Bobin originally posted 3 mils, instead of 0.3.

</div></div>

Back to learning then!

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

I go to the grocery store and look what happens.....

Here's my Offset table I use from JBM:

Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Manufacturer: Sierra Description: Palma [2155] (Litz)
Caliber: 0.308 in Weight: 155.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2796.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.57 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 1.0 mph Target Speed: 1.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 mil Column 2 Units: 0.10 mil
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.743 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.5 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 335 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 285 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 158 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1532.8 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.233 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop
0 *** ***
7 -5.2 -52.0
14 -2.1 -21.2
21 -1.1 -11.3
28 -0.6 -6.5
35 -0.4 -3.8
42 -0.2 -2.2
49 -0.1 -1.1
56 -0.0 -0.5
63 -0.0 -0.1
70 0.0 0.2
77 0.0 0.3
84 0.0 0.3
91 0.0 0.2
98 0.0 0.0

So for a 38 yd shot I would hold 0.3 mils BELOW center on the reticle, which is the same hold I would use for an 162 YD shot. If dialing I would go UP 3 (0.1 MIL) clicks from my zero point. So I'm holding HIGH for a 38 yd shot......

At 7 yds my hold is the same as my 675 YD data, 5.2 MILS HIGH. or on the reticle 5.2 MILS BELOW the crosshairs....

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

You never reference the hold below the crosshairs as "low"

it's direction and distance as in direction of the "Main Crosshair" which is "above" the target...

so you are not holding "low" you are holding the crosshairs "high"

 

[Lindy]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

I can see that there will be students for the online training lesson on mechanical offset and short-range trajectories...

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can see that there will be students for the online training lesson on mechanical offset and short-range trajectories...
</div></div>

How right you are!

I knew one would hold high. Did not know the term "mechanical offset".

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Amazing how many people ask me why my data card starts with 11yds.....

Mechanical offset (whether you know the term or not) is definately a "need to know" concept.

 

[sgj2025]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Great post! These are the ones that i love to read and make the site enjoyable. Next trip to the range will set up a 25 yd target and maybe somebody besides me will be making the beer run!!

 

[Lindy]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

It's a very useful exercise to put your 100 yard/meter zero on the rifle, then shoot a target at 10 yards to see where the point of impact is with respect to the point of aim.

Then back away 10 yards, and repeat. Do that until you get back to your short-range zero.

Many people have no idea what their trajectory is inside their short-range zero. Finding out is a good idea.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

wow.

I must be seriously messed up since I dope my rifle for 100M but dope my cards for 25M to 600M in 25M increments, then dope 100M increments to 1k for my second card. I thought everyone did that since some folks here shoot scoped rifles from under 100M as required by their jobs.

off to play with mud on the walls...

 

[Strickland]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

At the last match I did, Bash, I had 3 data cards. One in 100 yard increments (100-1000), one is 25 yard increments (25-500), and one in 10 yard increments (10-200).

It helped when we did that close shot.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

You're not seriously messed up.

You're consciously competent. Many people are unconsciously incompetent.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Followup:

Stages of Competence:

Unconscious Incompetence: The individual neither understands nor knows how to do something, nor recognizes the deficit, nor has a desire to address it.

Conscious Incompetence: Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, without yet addressing it.

Conscious Competence: The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires a great deal of consciousness or concentration.

Unconscious Competence:
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it becomes "second nature" and can be performed easily (often without concentrating too deeply). He or she may or may not be able teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

avoid the brain damage and use a 12guage ....7 1/2 shot should do

 

[Photon]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Followup:

Stages of Competence:

Unconscious Incompetence: The individual neither understands nor knows how to do something, nor recognizes the deficit, nor has a desire to address it.

Conscious Incompetence: Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, without yet addressing it.

Conscious Competence: The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires a great deal of consciousness or concentration.

Unconscious Competence:
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it becomes "second nature" and can be performed easily (often without concentrating too deeply). He or she may or may not be able teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.</div></div>

I seem to remember this from a certain leadership textbook someone forced me to read...

 

[orkan]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unconscious Competence:
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it becomes "second nature" and can be performed easily (often without concentrating too deeply). He or she may or may not be able teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned. </div></div>

This is exactly what I have when it comes to shooting critters up close out of my truck window. Been done so many times that I have to think hard to explain it, but can take a black bird's head off from 5-75yds with my 17hmr without a single thought or hesitation.

 

[jpach]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

Soo...did you take the shot

?

 

[3positionshooter]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

you may offend those who are members of PETA...but then again we all know what PETA stands for:
People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

 

[orkan]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jpach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Soo...did you take the shot

? </div></div>

No. I didn't need to put a hole in my building. Secondly, I've been trying to get the rabbit population back up around my place so I can hunt them with my bow.

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks... it was even through my dirty window.

</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-size: 14pt">Zingggeerrrrrr</span></span></span>

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is exactly what I have when it comes to shooting critters up close out of my truck window. Been done so many times that I have to think hard to explain it, but can take a black bird's head off from 5-75yds with my 17hmr without a single thought or hesitation.

</div></div>
What kind of glass do you have on the 17?

 

[orkan]

Re: Dead Bunnies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of glass do you have on the 17? </div></div>

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-crossfire-4-12x40-ao-riflescope-fine-crosshair-reticle

It'll probably be getting a PST soon.