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Except nothing I've posted is "radical alt right"Suppose for a second that your point is actually fair, and has any validity. Then the legitimate response would be, that somebody has to offer a counter-perspective to your "radical alt-right" bullshit. Since you want to go there. My point is every bit as valid as yours, in that case.
Yes, I'm against the death penalty (the government can't manage basic justice much less the absolute justice required to make an irreversible decision), and think it infinitely cheaper as a society (not just the per-diem of prison) looking at costs all in, to house those guilty of capital crimes and recidivist junkies who commit most of the crime. Even so I'm not for purposefully making prison a hell hole either. We just spent trillions on leftist bullshit down the toilette. We could make alot of nice prisons for that, and I have no problem keeping those who can't handle liberty out of society rather than dragging society down to their level, which looks like what you so modestly propose.Where you gonna put them?
Are you gonna kill them, or are you going to permanently house them? Who pays for it all?
Go on, be honest...
I'm sorry... Could you please refresh my memory - where was that allegation leveled? Who said anything about "looks"?Wow. You’re pathological. I want no culling of people because of the way they look. There is no American who is my enemy because of who they are.
The fact that nothing that I've posted is radical left, is why my point was as valid as yours.Except nothing I've posted is "radical alt right"
I'm in favor of hard labor for junkies. Make them pay for their rehab, by doing things that actually contribute to, and are needed by, society. In fact, that would be helpful to the illegal immigration problem, too (those "jobs that Americans don't want to do").Yes, I'm against the death penalty (the government can't manage basic justice much less the absolute justice required to make an irreversible decision), and think it infinitely cheaper as a society (not just the per-diem of prison) looking at costs all in, to house those guilty of capital crimes and recidivist junkies who commit most of the crime. Even so I'm not for purposefully making prison a hell hole either. We just spent trillions on leftist bullshit down the toilette. We could make alot of nice prisons for that, and I have no problem keeping those who can't handle liberty out of society rather than dragging society down to their level, which looks like what you so modestly propose.
I'm never for denying anyone an appeal, because I know for a fact our justice system is imperfect (corrupt at this point), but I think three strikes laws (or four if you are soft on crime) are good. We don't just kick our criminals to another country like so many do. Just take them out of society. If they can do something productive let them, and I'm all for parole if they change and can behave. I do believe in redemption too. Another of those unmodern ideas.
you don't know anything about me, but i suspect you think i am on the side of the prosecution, and i am not.Again, till you've seen it first hand you just won't get it.
I've seen it take eight cops, eight, to hold somebody down amidst an excited delerium episode.
Ever do any wrestling or martial arts in your day? Control the head and the body follows. Which is beside the point since MN PD teaches the knee on the neck as a restraint method.
There's bodycam footage and stills showing he had his knee on the shoulder blade, not the neck.
Coroner reports no damage or bruising to the neck. Full stop.
The only thing these guys failed to do, that I can see, is continually reassess the condition of the bad guy.
Then again, I wasn't there with a hostile crowd threatening to get involved so I tend to keep my mouth shut on judging the actions of others.
ETA: Here's another reason for restraining the head I forgot to add above - they frequently try to injure themselves when restrained.
Sounds crazy right? I've literally pressed a guy's head into the ground so he couldn't lift it because he was cracking his own skull against the pavement while shouting "ow ow ow" so it would appear we were striking him when we weren't.
You don't "understand" because you haven't been there.
Nope.If Fentanyl Floyd was white would we even be talking about this?
I don't care what side you're on. What I know is that this is America and we're all entitled to our opinions.you don't know anything about me, but i suspect you think i am on the side of the prosecution, and i am not.
i am simply stating my perception based on what i could see from video and testimony.
the fact that chauvin seemed to have his weight on floyd's shoulder is also notable.
i respect your service, but i think you are confused by your own biases, while i have none.Nope.
I don't care what side you're on. What I know is that this is America and we're all entitled to our opinions.
I suspect you fall into the same trap many people do when watching video of LE encounters: You start to form an opinion based on the limited information the video shows and you form a flawed opinion based on the flawed data before you.
This, IMO, is why bodycams are stupid. It grants people who know nothing about the situation a reason to believe they do. The camera never tells the full story and the people forming opinions while watching lack the experience or training to evaluate what they're seeing without emotion.
Violent LE encounters, when done 100% by the book, within the law, and according to policy still LOOK shitty. LE deals with the worst of the worst. Sometimes it ends in tragedy for the suspect, sometimes for the officer.
The belief that seeing more will somehow help people understand has not shown itself to be true from what I've seen.
We have heard multiple times by the mouthbreathers in this thread that the actual cause of death is irrelevant, the officer needs to go to jail because of...feelings.
Nope.
I don't care what side you're on. What I know is that this is America and we're all entitled to our opinions.
I suspect you fall into the same trap many people do when watching video of LE encounters: You start to form an opinion based on the limited information the video shows and you form a flawed opinion based on the flawed data before you.
This, IMO, is why bodycams are stupid. It grants people who know nothing about the situation a reason to believe they do. The camera never tells the full story and the people forming opinions while watching lack the experience or training to evaluate what they're seeing without emotion.
Violent LE encounters, when done 100% by the book, within the law, and according to policy still LOOK shitty. LE deals with the worst of the worst. Sometimes it ends in tragedy for the suspect, sometimes for the officer.
The belief that seeing more will somehow help people understand has not shown itself to be true from what I've seen.
I think the issue people who don’t care about ether side have is this, the cops didn’t kill him, but how they handled it was so far past stupid they need some time in the time out box known as jail to re think their decisions
I’m sick of this anything goes as long as the police make it home safe. I mean where do we draw the line? When they pull grandma over for not using her turn signal, well she could work for the cartel, probably should drag her out of the car and tase her just to be safe, I mean this one time this one thing happened and blue lives matter etc etc
Look being a cop is not that dangerous of a job, on the scale of dangerous work it’s more than a few rungs below what I do, and I’m held to a MUCH higher standard, if I do something stupid my peers will analyze and crucify me, the uneducated public will call for my head because they don’t understand what I do, and the court that will decide my life’s career outcome doesn’t even have to use a jury of my peers, guilty beyond doubt, nada, my jury is basically my prosecution, plus the level of money and experience it took to get where I am at, I’m playing the smallest violin for the blue.
Sorry, I’m just sick of the police getting super special treatment for everything, they are given a job that doesn’t ask for a ton of expensive training or hard to get experience, paid VERY well, have a pension that’s but a dream for 99% of the working class, and I’m told I just don’t understand and shouldn’t judge when they do super stupid shit like kneel on a guys neck for long enough to catch a few YouTube music videos...while bunches of people point out what they are doing and film them, which doesn’t even raise a “umm is this a good idea” in their little heads?
Why is it people trained in the law, people sworn (but legally not required) to protect, can’t even be held to the same standard in obeying and not hurting people as me, or any other private citizen. Sorry but if you “can’t do your job” while being held to a higher standard maybe you shouldn’t have that job, lots of others would be happy trade places and take your check and pension.
L.E never should drive culture. We aren't here as a society because "cops aren't allowed to do their job." Its is not cops jobs to raise others peoples children, set others morals, or punish criminals. In fact arguably we were a much better society when we had many fewer police, and the L.E in areas were Sheriffs more directly effected by the voting public.This is my take on the whole F'n situation, it was a "perfect storm"of circumstances.
From my years as a c.o., when we had to go into a cell/pod on someone, we had a max of 4 people(not a largely manned jail) to restrain a non-compliant inmate. Now, you have the training of P.O.S.C./D.A.T(approved tactics) and I would say, in my experience, 85% of the time it turns into a F'n street brawl. Just because you have cuffs on a subject, most times the fight isn't over. F, we have placed subjects into a F'n restraint chair, and myself personally, have been head butted/kicked, trying to apply the chair restraints, much less, a subject that was just directed to the ground, then applying the F'n restraints and yeah, knobs brought in off the street, hyped-up on who knows what, can be a real shit-storm. Just my F'n experience.
What the officer did, imo, was not the best way to handle the situation, it could of been handled better.
It was the perfect storm and I think Floyd died of a drug overdose/Excited Delirium circumstance.
Hell, we were even trained to kneel between the shoulder blades to restrain subjects, but, as soon as that subject was cuffed and leg restrained, we rolled them over onto their sides. Every F'n inmate/subject I ever had to restrain/assist in restraining, ALWAYS claimed "I can't breath". It was a known "out" for them.
Like what was mentioned and is very true, If they're talking/screaming, they're breath'n, period.
L.E. has been to be made "pussies" today. IF they were allowed to do their F'n jobs, and yeah, they're bad ones out there, our society would start to be a better/safer place again. 99% of L.E. out there, are great at their jobs and take pride in doing what they do. Just my opinion. I've traveled this great nation and I probably can count on one hand how many shitty cops I've met and they were probably shitty, because, I was being "pricky" to them to begin with, so, there's that.
Our society has just got out of hand and this "touchy/feelie" shit has got to stop.
Sucks what happened, but, Floyd had his demons. Now I think I will stfu. Carry on!
Mac![]()
That's entirely sensible; the problem is, try to get people from the hood, to be cops in the hood.
I couldn’t make it out really, but to me it sounded like,” I ate to many shrimp!”
Are they thinking it was excessive amounts of shrimp killed him? We’re they barbecue shrimp? Was it poison barbecue shrimp? Did Chauvin give flyod the poison barbecue shrimp and maybe a strawberry daiquiri laced with fentanyl??
I can 100% say feelings and optics have zero to do with my views. Im never sad or upset when shitheads meet a grim fate. However, when my taxes pay for a man to disregard the safety of those they detain, I have issue with that. The man representing me in the blue uniform has a societal duty to make sure he arrives to face his jury. If not, my representation in blue uniforms is acting like a mob/gang. Not how I want my tax dollars spent. We are a civilized society.....Except nothing I've posted is "radical alt right"
I've done nothing but point out facts that keep getting ignored because "muh feelz" and "optics" and other BS excuses.
Yall keep repeating the mantra "I can't breathe" and literally offering no counter point to the fact that he had 4x the lethal dose of drugs, and no evidence of trauma to his neck....just that Floyds OD was somehow someone else's fault
I think the issue people who don’t care about ether side have is this, the cops didn’t kill him, but how they handled it was so far past stupid they need some time in the time out box known as jail to re think their decisions
i think there will be unbelievable pressure on the jury to try to avoid riots, and we know what that means...and they will be doxxed...You would be awesome on the prosecution!
"hey there jury, we all know that the officer is charged with murdering that guy and obviously he didn't do it. I mean, we all know this and all the evidence proves it. But you know...while we are here, let's just forget what the trial is for and go ahead and convict him anyway because my feelings. I mean, they did everything by the book and the junkie killed himself but I just feel they should be in jail"
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If they would have only been soft tacoooooooooooooooooossss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!this guy tried to eat to many tacos, and his son is suing because dad was a drunken idiot.
i think you are confused by your own biases, while i have none.
I'm a little biased, if you couldn't tell. IF you haven't noticed, our population has increased exponentially in the last few decades, so, yeah, we need more "policing". Not you, or me, because, we are responsible/law abiding citizens. BUT, as a whole, our society is just plain stupid, and with that, someone has to keep it in "check".L.E never should drive culture. We aren't here as a society because "cops aren't allowed to do their job." Its is not cops jobs to raise others peoples children, set others morals, or punish criminals. In fact arguably we were a much better society when we had many fewer police, and the L.E in areas were Sheriffs more directly effected by the voting public.
You would be awesome on the prosecution!
"hey there jury, we all know that the officer is charged with murdering that guy and obviously he didn't do it. I mean, we all know this and all the evidence proves it. But you know...while we are here, let's just forget what the trial is for and go ahead and convict him anyway because my feelings. I mean, they did everything by the book and the junkie killed himself but I just feel they should be in jail"
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I'm a little biased, if you couldn't tell. IF you haven't noticed, our population has increased exponentially in last few decades, so, yeah, we need more "policing". Not you, or me, because, we are responsible/law abiding citizens. BUT, as a whole, our society is just plain stupid, and with that, someone has to keep it in "check".
IF we could go back to the "Wild West" times of our country, we could keep it "culled", and we would not have the issues we have, but, we can't. Thanks to .gov/lawyers, we have laws, that always seem to be circumvented/loop-holed, and we end up with our society being what it is today.
If we could apply laws, as intended, we would have a much more "polite" society, but, I don't see that happening, so, we got what we got.
You think we could have a society without laws, you'd be F'n kidding yourself. The ditches would be full, if we were left to the business of taking care of it ourselves. I'm not talking about "Stassi" type law enforcement, but, enforcement as it is known today type. Does it get a little "outa whack" at times, sure, but, as a society, we need it.
Also, people need to quit allowing the villiage to raise the child(cops included), they need to take on the responsibility of raising their own F'n child. If you're going to breed it, feed it.
I wish we lived in that utopia, but, we don't. Mac
where would my bias come from?We all have em, except you, I guess!
No idea who Daniel Shaver isawfully presumptuous of you to know who I'd support when I've never heard of 'em.
Starting to sound like a lefty with your masterful knowledge of the entire universe.
Thanks for making my point for me.![]()
What I'm saying is, we need the "Rule of Law" to maintain a collective society. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. WE cannot police ourselves, it would be a F'n 5th world country. There IS no "utopia".So you need more police to try to destroy your life after you defend yourself, or to say here’s a report bye when your house it looted, or write tickets for everything from because you were 1” too far from the curb to because you collected rain water? Lest we forget we need more cops to kick down your door for not having a covid passport or for that scary black rifle you have.
The think you have a very different idea of what police actually do vs what they do.
i agree, but then there is the fbi and doj that have proven they don't give a fuck about citizens or our rights or the "rule of law".What I'm saying is, we need the "Rule of Law" to maintain a collective society. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. WE cannot police ourselves, it would be a F'n 5th world country. There IS no "utopia".
I not even talking about your mean "Black gun", or, F'n Covid. I'm talking just about the court case, period.
Yes, I think L.E. is a good thing. If you disagree, that's on you, but, you'd better have stocked-up on ammo, pal.. There are fantastic cops out there, and they do what they're trained/hired to do, and that's a good thing. ymmv.
Mac![]()
What I'm saying is, we need the "Rule of Law" to maintain a collective society. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. WE cannot police ourselves, it would be a F'n 5th world country. There IS no "utopia".
I not even talking about your mean "Black gun", or, F'n Covid. I'm talking just about the court case, period.
Yes, I think L.E. is a good thing. If you disagree, that's on you, but, you'd better have stocked-up on ammo, pal.. There are fantastic cops out there, and they do what they're trained/hired to do, and that's a good thing. ymmv.
Mac![]()
Yes, I agree on the F'ery with those two alphabet organization, but, this thread is about Chauvin and his situation. Maci agree, but then there is the fbi and doj that have proven they don't give a fuck about citizens or our rights or the "rule of law".
true, i am just saying that if the "top law enforcement agency" in the country is corrupt, what can we expect from local LEAs?Yes, I agree on the F'ery with those two alphabet organization, but, this thread is about Chauvin and his situation. Mac
Shit, these yo-yos, especially the progressive ones who never even see black people, ought to take a drive with me through North St. louis. Put your fucking seat belt on though, because half the vehicles don’t have plates (much less any Insurance), and there aren’t any traffic laws. Red lights are just a suggestion, and you will see a whole family’s fast food wrappers dumped out the window right in front of you.So you need more police to try to destroy your life after you defend yourself, or to say “here’s a report bye” when your house is looted, or write tickets for everything from because you were 1” too far from the curb to because you collected rain water? Lest we forget we need more cops to kick down your door for not having a covid passport or for that scary black rifle you have.
I think you have a very different idea of what police actually do vs what they do.
Yes, I agree on the F'ery with those two alphabet organization, but, this thread is about Chauvin and his situation. Mac
I F'n get it. We could sit here and nit-pick forever. we don't live in F'n UTOPIA! We just have to manage the best we can. I'm old, a F'n Boomer, if you will. I much prefer the cops of my generation, than this gen., for, because, reasons, just how I feel. I believe in law and order. Now, when the Stassi comes to kick my door in, I'll deal with it at that time in the way I see fit. MacWe do police ourselves
Do you think police stop crime? The numbers don’t agree
I had a attempted home invasion years back, it wasn’t the cops they stopped it, it was me and one of my pistols, thankfully the scum bags were smart enough to go see I have the drop on them and it was a no win and ran off. I called the police after (like all the little statists are taught), long story short they found the idiots, reached for their ticket book instead of their cuffs, but basically threatened me for daring to have a gun.
A place I worked was robbed, had cameras and all, police showed up, gave them a report and that was it, zero effort to find the people who robbed them, “that’s what insurance is for“
Old town I worked in, I would drive home after night shift, past the bars, got pulled over a few times for complete BS, they WOULD NOT write a ticket, all for them to go on a fishing expedition hoping they maybe would hit the jackpot and see a beer can or something.
So yeah, we do need police, but not lawenforcers as much as peace keepers, cool with eliminating 75% of LE, most of the duties I see them do could be replaced with private meter maids, also many of the laws are designed to make work for police more than keep people safe, if you can’t show me on the doll where it hurt you I don’t think it should be much more than a non criminal fine. When I see a high speed chase for a expired drivers license I just hope a meteor would come down and smash the whole parade of stupid.
I F'n get it. We could sit here and nit-pick forever. we don't live in F'n UTOPIA! We just have to manage the best we can. I'm old, a F'n Boomer, if you will. I much prefer the cops of my generation, than this gen., for, because, reasons, just how I feel. I believe in law and order. Now, when the Stassi comes to kick my door in, I'll deal with it at that time in the way I see fit. Mac
Guess you didn’t read what I wrote, too much invested in my career, and as someone who would use my full force to defend the constitution, I probably wouldn’t be too popular when I cuffed and stuffed a coworker in the back of the cop car stopping him from shutting down a business or arresting a mom in a park during Covid 2.0, or if they tried to arrest someone during some gun grab law, or after shooting a dog for no reason, also probably wouldn’t be to hot when I targeted slow drivers in the left lane more than fast drivers in the left lane based on what’s more dangerous.
L.E never should drive culture. We aren't here as a society because "cops aren't allowed to do their job." Its is not cops jobs to raise others peoples children, set others morals, or punish criminals. In fact arguably we were a much better society when we had many fewer police, and the L.E in areas were Sheriffs more directly effected by the voting public.
Democrats. The same group that runs every city with a questionable police killing of a black man/woman.of course i am not saying they are all bad, but who runs minneapolis?
I don't see it that way at all. They had requested (and then upgraded the request for) EMS *to get him care* and had him restrained to prevent him from harming himself (excited delerium) while EMS was inbound. With that OD onboard, there was no other option . . . nobody at the site was equipped to treat him, and his thrashing was a threat to his health. And, obviously, he coule breath since he was able to babble his gibberish.I just dont see it so black and white as that. Whats more important, someones life or restraining them/making the arrest? Drugs, no drugs, you detain, you take on the responsibility of their care. They took his right to seek medical care, so now it is their problem. A knee on the back while someone begs for air.....not good. Regardless if there was a breathing issue or not.
I think there are two views on this.....I forsee a hung jury.
If the video showed him roll him over, try help him with breathing issues, then we are not even having this conversation.
Oh, and im all for losers leaving this world asap. The guy contributed little to society.
In a sane, and not llibtarded world, it doesn't.Question for all the autistics...
If I am being arrested, and I get placed on the ground and restrained....but I manage to bite a cyanide capsule and kill myself.....is that the officers fault??
If not...why does it all of a sudden become the officers fault if I happen to use 4x the lethal dose of fentanyl instead of cyanide?
In a sane, and not llibtarded world, it doesn't.
The problem is that now all these dimwits think that how they (delusionally) feel about things supersedes actual fact.
Bottom line if GF pulled the pin on a lethal weapon called fentanyl (might as well have been a grenade) and nothing else mattered after that point. It was a given that it was going to go off and kill him, the only variable was who else was going to get caught in the blast. How it "looked" is completely irrelevant . . .
And the argument about damage from riots if aquitted is also nonsense (well, maybe not with the mental feeb and the ho in the WH) but had this crap been shut down hard when it started, we woild not have the problem now. It can *still* be shut down hard, but it will be ugly getting control back, but it can be done. It *will* require takedown of those aiding and abetting the terrorists, though . . .
No, the OD "led to a death" . . . the situation caused Chauvin to be in the blast radius. There is *ZERO* support from anyone that GF would still be alive had he not interacted with police. Heck, had it gone that way, GF would be just as dead, but the cause on the street would be "death by dumba$$" and the natives would not be shaking the trees to a) get whitey and/or b) Get millions for a guy not worth much more than $10 . . . Discretion is bullshit, and a tool well used by criminals. The law is the law, period . . .OK, here's a reverse stupid question... If you know that you already have a community relations problem, and major incidents typically end with blacks rioting and destroying shit, do you just go ahead and instruct your department to get 5 of their finest, filmed sitting on top of a junkie in the hood, like they've just bagged a wildebeast on safari?
Derr!!!
No, dumbass... It's because the police didn't use proper discretion in the situation, which led to a death. That death created a fucking international uproar. And it's not like this is a surprise - like it's never happened before.
He deserves to be on trial. You can't create this kind of a mess, and expect it to just be overlooked.
Well, it "looked" good enough for Minneapolis to give his survivors $27 million. Not bad for a going no where fast dying junkie.In a sane, and not llibtarded world, it doesn't.
The problem is that now all these dimwits think that how they (delusionally) feel about things supersedes actual fact.
Bottom line if GF pulled the pin on a lethal weapon called fentanyl (might as well have been a grenade) and nothing else mattered after that point. It was a given that it was going to go off and kill him, the only variable was who else was going to get caught in the blast. How it "looked" is completely irrelevant . . .
And the argument about damage from riots if aquitted is also nonsense (well, maybe not with the mental feeb and the ho in the WH) but had this crap been shut down hard when it started, we woild not have the problem now. It can *still* be shut down hard, but it will be ugly getting control back, but it can be done. It *will* require takedown of those aiding and abetting the terrorists, though . . .
Also don't forget that GF clearly *asked* to be put on the ground - it's on the video.Here's a riddle.
George Floyd was detained, removed from his vehicle, brought to the sidewalk, frisked, cuffed and placed in the back of a patrol car. After complaining that he couldn't breathe he was then removed from the back of the patrol car and placed face down ( give or take) prone in the street.
All that was done without any violent actions by Floyd. If those officers were so worried about their safety. Why did they remove him from the safest place he could be?
Hmmmm?