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Desert Tech... It's here!
- Thread starter doctordoctor
- Start date
So any assistance is always appreciated.
I reload for 6.5 CM and I cant see how Grendel would be cheaper. Creedmoor brass is cheaper and much much more plentiful. bullets are the same. The CM would just us some more powder.
As far as confined environment, Id rather fire a 16 inch .308 indoors than a 10.5 inch 5.56. My 10.5 inch SBR is a concussion canon. I cant imagine that a .308 is any louder than a Creedmoor.....besides, thats what suppressors are for.
I dont see how 6.5 CM could be considered too much for an assault rifle, its more mild than a .308 in kick and muzzle blast and there is no doubt you can get better velocity out of the same 6.5 bullet and barrel length with the CM than the Grendel.
Add to the fact that very accurate factory 6.5 CM ammo is readily available and Grendel ammo is harder to find than hens teeth, the CM would be a much better 6.5 choice. Availability of factory ammo should be the biggest deciding factor. Besides, from what I have seen several times, the Grendel round would have been better off as a 6mm cartridge anyways.
I get 2850 FPS with a 123 Amax out of my 6.5 CM gas gun with a 24 inch barrel. 2600 would be doable with an 18 inch barrel and in that short little package that would be a devastating combo.
With a quick search on midway the brass for the 2 are within a couple of dollars of each other and there were more options for the Grendel. For what it's worth I've bought all my Grendel brass for cheaper than what was listed and that includes Lapua during the craze.
I agree that's is what suppressors are for.
The .308 isn't an assault rifle round, it's a battle rifle round.
All AR15 ammo is still scarce. That's an apples to orange comparison at the moment. Hopefully it'll even out by the end of summer.
I get 2650 fps with 123gr amax from my 24" Grendel. While I'd love to get another 200 fps, it's not really that significant inside 800 yards.
In a close encounter, follow up shot time matters and that's where the Grendel does have an advantage.
I'm not saying a Creedmore or 260 barrel for an MDR is a bad idea, I just think the Grendel fits it better.
I'd still like to see some real world velocity data for a 14.5"-16" Creedmore and 260.
Here we go again (and once again i love mine and am not a hater), but hate to see people gimp other cartridges to make theirs look better.
It is not a 200 fps advantage for 6.5C
you quoted from a 24" barrel, so a 6.5C 120g from a 24" barrel is more like 400+fps faster. that is significant.
hell some guys have shot 20"creedmoor barrels close to 3000fps with 123/120gr amax.
compare apples to apples
so we are all allowed an opinion, but mine is that a creedmoor is the best over grendel for the MDR.
It is not a 200 fps advantage for 6.5C
you quoted from a 24" barrel, so a 6.5C 120g from a 24" barrel is more like 400+fps faster. that is significant.
hell some guys have shot 20"creedmoor barrels close to 3000fps with 123/120gr amax.
compare apples to apples
so we are all allowed an opinion, but mine is that a creedmoor is the best over grendel for the MDR.
My 6.5 CM fed 140 Hybrids no problem.
There is no doubt a CM is going to push the same bullet out of the same length barrel faster than a Grendel with a more acceptable pressure curve for semi autos.
Again, the big issue being factory ammo that is cheap, accurate and readily available. I can walk into any Cabellas or BPS and find 6.5 CM ammo all the time.
You are right though Cory, technically the .308 has always been classified as more of a battle rifle round.
In the end I get the feeling this is all a mute point since I am sure the aftermarket will provide the solution for all of us to have whatever we want. The question will simply be a matter of reliability and whether or not this system like a certain cartridge or not.....which we obviously will not know until next year.
Either way, if they can work the bugs out of it and release a rock stable, dead nuts reliable, reasonably accurate rifle that transitions from 5.56 to 7.62 seamlessly in this tiny little bad ass bull pup configuration......then Desert Tactic......errrrppp, Desert Tech will have made probably one of the most groundbreaking improvements to black rifle market in over a decade.
Just as with their SRS and Covert series rifles......they are doing what no one else has or can do. Where else can you get such a compact and versatile rifle that does what those rifles do?
I hate the term "game changer" but if this rifle performs....it will be one.
I'm not sure with what you mean by reliable here? I haven't experience in difference in function with the 140gr, 123gr, & 100gr projectiles. However, I'm still the workup stage of my 140gr use. I'll be able to answer that question with a better sample by the end of the summer.
Agreed. However I believe the real question should be is it significant enough in the intended usage to make it a big factor.
Exactly!
Don't get me wrong I never meant to dog the 6.5 Creed or 260 at all. If I was to spend the money on DTA's SRS I'd never spend the money on a Grendel barrel for it. That doesn't make any sense to me. I also wouldn't spend the money on a Creed or 260 conversion. I'd get a 6.5 SAUM and/or 338 LM.
I do plan on building a good lightweight 6.5 Creedmore bolt rifle Rem 700 or Savage. I like to optimize both the round and platform through the best possible match in my mind.
More 6.5 Grendel 'apples to apples' input
6.5 Grendel: The World’s Best Assault Rifle Cartridge
By Stan Crist
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/show...rist-Article-on-the-Grendel-From-the-old-site
6.5 Grendel: The World’s Best Assault Rifle Cartridge
By Stan Crist
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/show...rist-Article-on-the-Grendel-From-the-old-site
I have both a Grendel and a .260 Rem, both in AR family weapons. The .260 Remington is not an intermediate cartridge, it falls into the battle rifle cartridge category, due to size and recoil. The shot recovery with any of the .308-based cartridges in a little bullpup is going to be problematic, as is weapon longevity in such a lightweight package, unless you use constant-recoil or other mitigating mechanisms that don't involve impact of reciprocating parts. You're dealing with 60,000-62,000psi SAAMI cartridges with .260 Rem and .308 Winchester.
I'm really interested to see the MDR in Grendel, since the design has room for a larger bolt. A little 18" or even 20" Grendel would be sweet for a DMR.
As soon as I looked at and handled the various prototypes at SHOT last week, I started thinking that the bullpup code might actually have been cracked with this ejection system and ambi mag release by the firing hand. The trigger felt nothing like a pup, but it wasn't resetting, so there is some work to be done between now and being truly ready. I think the main thing they pulled off was proving the ejection system, overall layout of the gun, and basic functionality with the prototypes.
It will be interesting to see this project move forward. From manufacturing and end-user perspectives, lower pressure cartridges make a lot of sense. Shot recovery, accuracy, and recoil. Shooting from positions is much easier with a pup since you don't have forward weight away from your C of G.
I'm going to be doing some demonstrations with carbines vs. precision rifles with more accuracy potential in terrain on a shot timer, showing the advantage that smaller guns have. For example, a 14.5" AR15 lightweight carbine in the same shooter's hands will have effective rounds on-target faster than an 18" SPR type gun. I suspect that a pup will allow even faster in-position times with rounds on target. Take away the barrel length advantage with a pup, and you have a very solid platform to deal out fast mv's from difficult positions.
Very rarely do you actually have the option to shoot effectively from prone in the field.
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I talked t a rep at the Harrisburg PA outside show and be said they were shooting for 1/2 MOA
2015 is a very aggressive release date for a well-ironed system. The engineering challenges with so many new capabilities are not trivial, and every design to date has failed at delivering them when you start looking at modularity, caliber conversion capability, unconventional ejection systems, and new ways of dealing with ergonomics.
This design is extremely ambitious, and not something that can just be thrown together. 5 years to have a truly functional working model in just one dedicated caliber is actually very ambitious if you look at other designs than only attempted to address just one of the issues with bullpups.
I hope DT ignores the pressure, and takes the time to get it right.
I've been salivating more and more over this thing for the last several months. My one major beef with the way it looks now is the grip. The way it mates with the receiver makes me think the attachment is going to be proprietary and not a standard A2 tang. That would take this rifle out of the huge AR aftermarket parts selection for pistol grips. They could at least incorporate a storage compartment into the grip if it's going to be proprietary (or maybe into the bottom of the stock). Adjustable cheek riser and LOP are also missing, something they could have carried over from their covert/SRS/HTI line of bolt guns.
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