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did holosun steal their technology?
- Thread starter Ndbowhunter
- Start date
Yeah I chose the 515gm over the aimpoint PRO. The mount is a little cheesy but that's not hard to change. Everything else seems pretty beefy. It's a copy of the T1 that doesn't have solar and I turned off the shake awake. So basically it's a poor man's T1 that functionally, as far as I've seen and have read, is the same thing. I'm usually the first to bash the "just as good" crowd but there's not a whole lot to a red dot.
There’s not a whole lot to a magnified optic either but there’s a big fucking difference between a Leapers and a Schmidt.
Also, by your own statements, you are part of the just as good crowd.
I won’t argue that Holosuns aren’t very good for being Chinese optics, but no they are not as good as the top tier shit, currently. Regardless, by purchasing them you’re supporting commies and an enemy to the US.
That's actually a Sig sauer Romeo 4T, assembled in the US and on the DOD and FBI optic approved list so it's being run by our government, also the Spanish army chose this(not that it matters necessarily lol). Just wanted to clarify. It's a fantastic red dot. It's more American made then an Aimpoint, it's been said that holosun does not have a part in the 4T(parts are from japan) like Sig sauer tango 6T , however; it's hard to find anything official on that. These can be found for $400 because of lack of demand, people go cheap (holosun, Romeo 5) or aimpoint/eotech. These Romeo 4Ts are a fantastic in between price wise..
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Does screwing on some turret caps and snapping a set of lens caps on count as "assembly"? That's (probably on purpose) a pretty squirrelly term.
Agreed, but it's more assembled in the US then an aimpoint. If it's a holosun parts kit it's more annoying, if it's from Japan not as much. I would like to know for sure as well. I doubt they would have over a $600 MSRP on a holosun parts kit, buuuut it's not impossible lol
Who cares that Aimpoint is made in Sweden. Look through this list and see who they buy from. There is 0 China, maybe 1 Russian ship, a few USA made (non fighting aircraft and a few small arms) , NATO countries, an Israel, and the rest is domestic.
List of equipment of the Swedish Armed Forces - Wikipedia
If they could fight alongside us, use our logistics, and buy some stuff from us, there's nothing wrong with buying from that country if they make a good product.
I don't disagree with you at all on Sweden. My point was just that if I/we are going to tell people to buy American to support our economy and the American worker and there is a red dot optic/lpvo(like the Romeo 4T/tango 6T) that's assembled by American workers giving them jobs, it's atleast a consideration rather then just giving it to another country (Sweden). Obviously aimpoint makes a fantastic proven product, but its still imported. Now what parts these Sigs are compromised of are equally a consideration. I have not been able to officially verify where (on the Romeo 4T not the Tango 6T it's Japan) the parts to assemble are coming from. I've heard people online say they talked to sig sauer and it's Japan, but that isn't gospel in my eyes. The features/battery life on these Romeo 4T are really really nice though. 100k hour of battery life, multiple reticles (4) including bdc drops for magnifiers/and or donut of death, ruggedized construction, motac shake awake. A lot of value there for the price you can find them right now on certain websites.Who cares that Aimpoint is made in Sweden. Look through this list and see who they buy from. There is 0 China, maybe 1 Russian ship, a few USA made (non fighting aircraft and a few small arms) , NATO countries, an Israel, and the rest is domestic.
List of equipment of the Swedish Armed Forces - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
If they could fight alongside us, use our logistics, and buy some stuff from us, there's nothing wrong with buying from that country if they make a good product.
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The truth is you have no idea what the legal requirements are for a company to use the phrase "assembled in USA" and you're floating a minimal to deflect.
The U.S. government enforces the use of, and clearly defines, the legal terms "assembled in USA" and "Made in USA", and I have yet to see anyone prove that "assembled in USA" can be legally fulfilled with such minimal tasks being performed domestically as you describe- but the commie product fanbois will continue to peddle that.
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You're replying to the usual tactics of deflecting and false equivalence- Sig is a western company and not a CCP company like HS, so there's no moral equivalence despite his attempt to paint it as such. It's not a yes or no scenario, it's a sliding scale and CCP/Commie companies are at the far left end of that scale.
Oh, please do explain the simplicity. And while you're at it. Explain how in the world you think that relates to red dots...
Before you go accusing others of being homegrown terrorists, you should really consider the moral weight of all your daily purchases. How many abortions do you think you've funded?
The original Zeiss Conquest MC scopes (I have 2 of them) were comprised of parts manufactured almost exclusively in Austria, including the glass. However, a few small plastic & rubber parts are from China, just like EVERY scope on the market regardless of brand, and then the parts were all shipped to the US for assembly. They say "Assembled in USA" on the scope and the box. This info was sent directly to me from Zeiss when I sent an email questioning this years ago when it was being discussed on another forum.
I don't know what percentage of parts defines "made in the USA" vs. "assembled in the USA", but based on what info I was given, I guess simply assembling an item from 100% imported parts is acceptable for "assembled in the USA".
To be fair, I was not trying to get involved in the buy a holosun or don't. I believe we should try not to contribute to the CCP but I also understand budget sometimes dictates otherwise as far as staying out of china and I'm a realist. All that aside, what I was really getting at was the Romeo 4T is a fantastic red dot that I think deserves more attention and gives you more towards aimpoint reliability with a more modest price point if you are on a budget, and you get the perk of atleast semi supporting American. However, the price may go up so on second thought forget I ever mentioned it 
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Does Holosun make some good budget options? Yes.
Should we buy them? No.
Should we buy them? No.
Of course Holosun makes good products I mean if your a working Uyghur and you fuck up at work your head is put on the bench so the next can look at it while he's working making products. American companies can't compete on this level , unfortunately ...........
Islam has a tendency to make its own problems. I knew a chick like that - shit was fine, she was loved, nothing was wrong - time to get STABBY!
An example that the FTC gives here is: "All the major components of a computer, including the motherboard and hard drive, are imported. The computer’s components then are put together in a simple "screwdriver" operation in the U.S., are not substantially transformed under the Customs Standard, and must be marked with a foreign country of origin. An "Assembled in U.S." claim without further qualification is deceptive."
So it would sound like domestic assembly must be more complicated than turning a screwdriver or something simple like plugging computer components together. Who knows whether squirting a bit of adhesive puts you across that line of complexity.
Millions , imagine if they make it illegal again the amount of liberals increased would be unbearable.
Chinese cars? No thanks.
They don’t seem to give a damn about anything other than a quick buck. The hell with patents, copyrights, their workforce or consumer safety. I see flashy Ford Pintos in their future but worse. That three cents they saved on a those caliper brackets is gonna cost you more than you bargained for.
It’ll be a cold day in hell before I put my kids in a car made in China.
perhaps less people would buy Chinese if some US companies pulled their fingers out and offered some appealing alternatives ?
Doesn't have to be bargain priced- I'd pay more for a US designed and MADE .
The Holosun reticles are sharp, the glass is plenty clear enough,"shake awake" works, battery like is impressive and when it does go, I don't have to unmount the fucker. All are banged about, ( though I'm not dropping it on concrete every 100 rounds), and all work.
I have a Trijicon SRS- big fucker, built like a brick shithouse, has solar for outdoor use, cost me about $900 with a Bobro mount.
After about 3 years it wouldn't switch on. Bit of googling, found that it happened to quite a few other owners too.
Trijicon told me it was no longer supported and offered a discount on the full MSRP of another product, which would still have been more than the discounted price at many vendors. So, in other words, fuck off.
And off I did fuck, and bought some Holosuns which are working.
Doesn't have to be bargain priced- I'd pay more for a US designed and MADE .
The Holosun reticles are sharp, the glass is plenty clear enough,"shake awake" works, battery like is impressive and when it does go, I don't have to unmount the fucker. All are banged about, ( though I'm not dropping it on concrete every 100 rounds), and all work.
I have a Trijicon SRS- big fucker, built like a brick shithouse, has solar for outdoor use, cost me about $900 with a Bobro mount.
After about 3 years it wouldn't switch on. Bit of googling, found that it happened to quite a few other owners too.
Trijicon told me it was no longer supported and offered a discount on the full MSRP of another product, which would still have been more than the discounted price at many vendors. So, in other words, fuck off.
And off I did fuck, and bought some Holosuns which are working.
Fair point, other than the control chips that activate your brakes and control your vehicles stability, are probably coming from China.
The two, great unsolved mysteries of our time:
“Did China steal that technology?”
“Do Jamaicans smoke weed?”
“Did China steal that technology?”
“Do Jamaicans smoke weed?”
I'm a blue collar worker who's guns and fun budget is very limited. I save for shit not made in countries that openly hate the US, especially in the guns side.
Now, if we could dedicate some manpower and funding to the 2 questions above.... I'm up for a research trip to Jamaica on the government dollar. Kansas is cold in the winter.....
Now, if we could dedicate some manpower and funding to the 2 questions above.... I'm up for a research trip to Jamaica on the government dollar. Kansas is cold in the winter.....
It's unfortunate, but probably true.
At least stateside we have QC inspections and manufacturing standards US, European and Japanese suppliers have to adhere to in order to keep their contracts.
A car entirely made in China is a whole 'nother animal.
It's about time you get to enlightening. I'm starting to smell a troll.And the “JuSt As GoOd” er sheds his skin
You can call their products crap, state funded, slave laboured, corners cut, etc but that's not going to change many minds, that's just the harsh reality. It's better to recognise that they can copy designs and improve upon them, so how are we failing so miserably that someone else is taking out products and doing it better?
To a certain extent, buying an inferior product just because it is locally made is telling our community that it's okay to suck. Participation awards all around.
If you cannot recognise that your competitor/enemy has potential, you're only fooling yourself and everyone else who cares to listen. It's exactly how the CCP has gained so much ground.
I just love all the “I ain’t buyin Chinese shit” fudds in this thread. I’d love to walk through your house and garage to see how much shit you own that’s made off shore
Actually they gained ground through child slave labor, stealing or being sold intellectual properties to replicate, and no environmental protection or really ANY red tape that exist in western manufacturing. That includes worker protections.
The only trolls are the ones on here pushing Chinese junk. EAD.
That's an interesting point of view...
We have no problem improving on existing designs and creating superior products in every measurable metric... but why bother if the chinese are going to rip it off and produce a knockoff for pennies on the dollar six months later? Why would US companies invest all that capital into R&D? I don't see many Americans heading to China to pursue higher education. We have some of the best engineers in the world stateside and the rest of the world knows it. That's why they send their best and brightest.
Dirt cheap manufacturing costs and lack of ethics is at the core of China's advantage. I wouldn't advocate for buying inferior products, but I would advocate for paying a premium for domestic products of comparable or better quality than Chinese offerings.
China has gained ground because of selfish assholes. Post WW2 we had the greatest manufacturing sector the world had ever seen, and within 50 years we handed it to China in exchange for cheap toasters and disposable electronics. Why? So that we could save a buck and use it to purchase more shit we don't need. I'm not interested in keeping up with Joneses.
It might not be a popular opinion, but I'll never buy a Holosun no matter how great it is. Doing so would be supporting China and encouraging their behavior. Frankly, it irks me a little bit when people do. If that makes me a self-absorbed prick then so be it.
Fuck China.
Adding to the previous four or five members I already cited, these people get it too-
@308pirate
@Jackalope
@redneckbmxer24
@vinniedelpino
@moosemeat
@TheHorta
@Matches Malone
It's refreshing that so many are "awake and based" enough to draw an ethical line on commie companies that make shooting related stuff.
@308pirate
@Jackalope
@redneckbmxer24
@vinniedelpino
@moosemeat
@TheHorta
@Matches Malone
It's refreshing that so many are "awake and based" enough to draw an ethical line on commie companies that make shooting related stuff.
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People who buy Holosun are commies. Period.
Anyone who’s been here for any time can probably remember when they first ripped off the Leupold MK4’s. Fuck China.
Anyone who’s been here for any time can probably remember when they first ripped off the Leupold MK4’s. Fuck China.
I wont say they are commies, some people either don't know or can't(or dont think they can) afford better. But we as consumers need to hold the industry accountable. Both here and there. And by there I mean dont buy Chinese shit. I wouldn't buy a Chinese firearm. I won't buy chinese optics. We dont have to boycott everything foreign but we should avoid products from countries that are enemies of the US, human rights and violate trade laws.
That's a different argument and we are sort of on the same page. Of course we shouldn't tolerate IP theft but that's inevitable just as weeds will keep sprouting in the yard. Doesn't mean we stop weeding.
We keep innovating, or we play their game and be better at it.
That's because their syllabus is in Chinese. That's not advantage us. It's advantage them. They have their students/agents in our countries benefitting from our experience but they don't have to play a bilateral game.
And they know our language but we don't know theirs. We need more Taiwanese and Hong Kong loyalist among us to be eyes and ears.
Mostly it's because of the belief we can have our cake and eat it too, and because of the notion we are above certain jobs. The UK literally wanted to move all their manufacturing jobs and retain only "intellectuals" to be the financial and IT hub.
Sure, that's the UK and not the US but the core philosophy is similar - we are better. No we are not.
Everytime a people think we are better, they always fall from grace. Old reference, Rome. Recent reference, Vietnam.
Fair enough but I think it's prudent to recognise it is a great product. Many of the commenters here seem to be unable to seperate the quality of the product and their national bias.
Amen.
This sentence by you proves you just don't get it- things like quality and features are totally irrelevant. It seems you're unable to separate the emotion of 'liking' a product from the cold hard fact the CCP is the greatest external threat to the western world (and all the other significant reasons we've previously posted).
ETA: My apologies, I just realized the commenter is Australian and not American.
You must be talking about little clowny features...
Cause holosun glass is like looking through snot compared to an RMR
I killed a Type I after a few years of shooting. Supposedly they redesigned the battery terminals to support the recoil of being pistol mounted.
My type II is still going on my G19. Had a third that was still working fine when I sold it.
I live in Australia. I am a dual citizen. Two things can be true which ironically ties in with the entire point that you seem to be unable to comprehend that things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
I agree that the CCP is the greatest threat. So what? Holosun is now a lousy product?
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