Did I screw up and buy the wrong R700?

[homeskillet]

I'm a newbie, been stalking for a while but I'm currently drowning in too much information today from reading up on NFA stuff, trusts, LLCs, twist rates vs grain weight, barrel lengths, ... and even more...
My target is 1Kyrd+ BR rifle. I've purchased a stock, used, Rem 700 SPS DM 300 WM. Unfortunately I didn't do much research, or thought even, at the time of purchase. It currently shoots like crap (IMO), doing 2-4" groups at 100 yards. I can't say for sure if the previous owner destroyed the barrel or not, but one thing for sure is that the barrel is definitely not free floating right now, a dollar bill only makes it an inch down the stock. I went the DM (detachable magazine) route because I wanted a magazine but didn't want to pay out the *** for aftermarket parts and mags. I didn't give any thought to aftermarket chassis systems.
Bottom line, am I going to have a hard time getting this DM R700 into some chassis systems?
Likewise, if I ever want to go down the road later (when funds are available) to go bigger on the magazine side, have I screwed up in that aspect as well by getting a DM receiver?
Trying to figure if I should bail now on this rifle and start over or not....

 

[DeadSilence]

How many rounds have you fired to get accustomed to the rifle? I ask because although I had alot of experience prior to finishing my last build it took me about 500 rds to start getting used to and accurate with the system. I had to get the setup comfortable and repeatable. You may have a welth of experience but it will still take some rounds down range to get used to your system.

 

[usmc02xx]

^true dat

 

[sagillman]

without knowing your background why did you pick 300WM? with a pencil thin barrel and a tupperware stock that thing has to have some kick. whats the rest of the setup (optic, base, rings) what ammo were you using? if all you wanted was a 1k yard rifle you could have achieved it with a lesser caliber.

 

[fdkay]

Honestly, yes.
1. Remington DBM sucks ass
2. 300 WM is expensive to shoot, hard on the shooter and hard on barrels.

Have you ever done any long range shooting before?
Have you ever shot a 300WM for extended sessions from a bench or prone before?
Are you shooting match ammo or generic hunting ammo?

A good .308 would have been far more appropriate, sps tactical, any of several savages, Howa, Tikka, take your pick.
another option would have been a savage in 6.5 cm, exterior ballistics similar to a 300wm with less recoil than a .308 and match ammo that costs less than "cheap" 300WM hunting ammo.

 

[homeskillet]

How many rounds have you fired to get accustomed to the rifle? I ask because although I had alot of experience prior to finishing my last build it took me about 500 rds to start getting used to and accurate with the system. I had to get the setup comfortable and repeatable. You may have a welth of experience but it will still take some rounds down range to get used to your system.

I've got 300 rounds through it. I have much better accuracy out of my custom built AR15. I can see the effects on paper from the bad stock/barrel (not free floating) when I try different loads. How much pressure I exert on the stock definitely has a vertical string effect. My grouping latterly is much better than vertical. The 2-4" grouping I mentioned at first is more like 2" MOA horizontally consistently, and 4" MOA vertically occasionally.

without knowing your background why did you pick 300WM? with a pencil thin barrel and a tupperware stock that thing has to have some kick. whats the rest of the setup (optic, base, rings) what ammo were you using? if all you wanted was a 1k yard rifle you could have achieved it with a lesser caliber.

I probably could have picked a different cartridge in hindsight. I chose 300WM because of its "on paper" performance for 1000+ and with the hope of going 1500 and longer once I find a location that is capable and practice more at 1000-ish.
I run on a lead sled with 50lbs of steel shot on it. Running a US Optics SN-3 5-25x with USO QD 20 MOA mount on a 0 MOA rail (I did this so I can take my high dollar glass and throw it on my AR15 and AR10 when I want and the remount of that base is nothing short of fantastic)

Honestly, yes.
1. Remington DBM sucks ass
2. 300 WM is expensive to shoot, hard on the shooter and hard on barrels.

Have you ever done any long range shooting before?
Have you ever shot a 300WM for extended sessions from a bench or prone before?
Are you shooting match ammo or generic hunting ammo?

A good .308 would have been far more appropriate, sps tactical, any of several savages, Howa, Tikka, take your pick.
another option would have been a savage in 6.5 cm, exterior ballistics similar to a 300wm with less recoil than a .308 and match ammo that costs less than "cheap" 300WM hunting ammo.

Re 2. Yes... my pocket book already feels it after buying quite a bit of non-SP ammo at close to $2/rd. I gotten into reloading much earlier than I ever anticipated and will be doing that as soon as I get all my spent brass from the "family range" in Iowa (that I foolishly left there). I've sold off all my hunting ammo and replaced it all with match ammo. The BC of 230gr Berger bullets really caught my eye and is probably part of the many reasons why I liked the idea of 300WM and those aren't loads you can really throw out of a 308... All my shootings has been prone and bench on the lead sled (as mentioned earlier), max string I've done before is 40-50 rounds but with the barrel on that SPS, you can really shoot more than 5 in a short period before worrying about how hot the barrel is.


I'd like to sideline the 300WM versus other caliber discussion for 2 reasons. 1: I already have a 308. Yes there are other calibers to consider but... 2: I'm already balls deep monetarily in 300 WM in terms of powder, bullets, primers, and store bought ammo (more so bullets and purchased ammo). I'll take a large loss trying to change at this point if I have to sell off all those individual items along with the rifle. Which gets back to the original question of "do I need a different receiver for the caliber I've already chosen"

 

[fdkay]

Do you need a different receiver?

No.
A properly built r700 will shoot right along with the best custom actions.
It WILL cost money to get there.

It is also my understanding that a lead sled is NOT conducive to shooting tiny, consistent groups.

You have a several options.
Immediately change the stock and continue shooting as is, the DBM is problematic.
quit throwing good money after bad. Stop shooting a rifle that is not meant for strings of fire and start the build process now or
Sell the rifle at a loss, by one of the new remington long range rifles that comes in the very good bell and carlson M40 stock, chambered in 300 wm.
THAT will get you shooting almost immediately, with a rifle suited to the purpose.

 

[sagillman]

I agree with the above. you could try to free float the barrel and retorque the action and see how it does with match/hand loaded ammo.

 

[homeskillet]

Do you need a different receiver?

No.
A properly built r700 will shoot right along with the best custom actions.
It WILL cost money to get there.

It is also my understanding that a lead sled is NOT conducive to shooting tiny, consistent groups.

You have a several options.
Immediately change the stock and continue shooting as is, the DBM is problematic.
quit throwing good money after bad. Stop shooting a rifle that is not meant for strings of fire and start the build process now or
Sell the rifle at a loss, by one of the new remington long range rifles that comes in the very good bell and carlson M40 stock, chambered in 300 wm.
THAT will get you shooting almost immediately, with a rifle suited to the purpose.

I understand. I'm already eyeballing a Krieger barrel amongst several other upgrades... But I wanted to know if my receiver is worth going through all that work (truing, rebarreling, etc..) if my receiver can't fit on to a decent chassis other than a Hogue which can accept the DM receiver...
So with the fact I plan on upgrading the other problematic components on this (or any other rifle) for LR string shooting, it comes back to the does the chassis fit the receiver question in my current scenario.

I get consistent groups out of my AR15 just fine out of the lead sled... I can attempt a small string with a bipod if you think that is worth investigating...

I agree with the above. you could try to free float the barrel and retorque the action and see how it does with match/hand loaded ammo.

That's on my to-do list, IF, the DM receiver can fit into a future chassis, which will need upgrading after I change the barrel to something that is more conducive to LR string shooting.....

 

[fdkay]

You won't find a "chassis" built with the factory dbm in mind.
All of the chassis systems that I know of are intended for use with the AICS magazines.

You could have a manners or mcmillan stock built for use with the factory dbm.
But then you are limited to a poor dbm with very limited capacity.

As far as the rifle goes, you could send it to Hart, they will true the action and install one of their excellent barrels for about 650 bucks.
You could then install it in a chassis such as MCree, XLR, Whiskey 3, AICS and several others.

The Kreiger barrel is an excellent barrel, as is bartlein, schneider, border and more.
They will all cost around 325 bucks, truing the action and installing the barrel will run around 350.

Either way will net you a very good rifle.
I will tell you this, once you start down that road, you will want a new trigger, maybe a side bolt release, maybe a threaded barrel for a muzzle break or suppressor etc...

The advantage of going with the factory long range rifle is you can start shooting right away, if you want to go with a DBM, you can send off the stock to Jeff at CDI, he will inlet the stock for his DBM that takes AICS mags.

 

[Rem7targetactical]

I think the OP wants to know if his drop mag receiver is different because it is factory, or will it accept aftermarket drop mags like Badger, PTG etc...

 

[Deerhunter28]

Yrs


PSE EVO 60 Lbs.
Blacked out

 

[09jisaac]

If I am not mistaken, it is the same receiver. I have taken one out of the stock and didn't notice any difference, but I wasn't looking for a difference.

I think you could just buy any long action stock and it will fit your receiver. If not, a qualified gunsmith should be able to make it work.

Pencil barrels aren't very good for a string of fire, but you can get pretty good groups out of them. You just need to give it time to cool.

VLD bullets are "hybrid" bullets can be very susceptible to bullet jump. If you are loading your own ammo, try adjusting the OAL.

 

[dwkuska]

Homeskilliet.. for the record I am assuming your AR is 5.56? If so you cant compare that to a 308 or 300wm its apples and oranges. I can shoot my AR all day long and put dimes @ 100yds but I cant do more then 50 of my .308 before fatigue and shoulder say NO MAS!!! I am wondering if the recoil is part of your accuracy issue although without seeing/shooting the rifle the best all of us can do is guess.

 

[Triple D]

If I'm not mistaken, that rifle has a medium/sporter contour barrel and isn't free floated at all. How quickly are you firing your shots for the groups. If everything is heating up and making contact, that could really throw off your shots.

Since you mentioned NFA stuff, you may want to check and see if that barrel OD is thick enough to thread for a 30 cal can.

It may be in your best interest to either sell it or rebarrel it if you have certain expectations/plans.

 

[Notso]

After doing a cursory google search for the Rem 700 DM rifle - everything I read suggests that the DBM system is a function of the stock and Rem bottom metal rather than anything to do with the receiver. Exactly as if you bought the HS BM, or CDI or whoever. I'm betting the receiver is a stock 700 receiver and should be GTG. I think this is simply Remington's (poor) attempt at having a DBM system and it is just their proprietary version of any number of other similar stocks and bottom metal setups. I doubt it has anything to do with the receiver. An R700 receiver is the same across all their other R700 products. You can always confirm with Remington if that is the case. Or you can take the stock off and take a pic of the barreled action and post it here. I'm sure someone will be able to easily tell you if there is anything different about it than a stock R700 receiver. I'm betting there is nothing different.

If that is the case, ditch the stock and ditch the barrel, get a heavier contour barrel installed (ideally with a muzzlebrake) from any of the usual suspects and get a chassis or other stock of your choice with bottom metal for AICS mags and call it a day. Overnight, you will have a great shooting rifle.

 

[homeskillet]

All, thank you for the replies, all very helpful in trying to figure out if my receiver is capable of becoming a good LR rifle. Several upgrades and comments in this thread were already in my mind to some degree or another but I need a answer about receiver vs chassis fitment and I think I'll be OK. I'll go ahead and snap some pictures of the receiver and post them up here just to be sure. I recall doing research earlier, when considering selling the pencil barrel rifle and buying a factory varmint barrel R700, that the DBM can not fit into a non DBM receiver, so there much be additional material removed from the interior cut magazine cutout. Hopefully the exterior dimensions are still the same and only the floor plate is different. I would presume the magazine retention on a AICS or other chassis comes from the chassis itself and I won't have to worry about a "sloppy" feeling magazine due to the extra space inside this DM receiver?

Google image search gave me this picture, was the only one I had luck with, I'll still take some pictures when I can this week.

 

[Johnt_ms]

I'd say bail on your current rifle and get a donor you can have options with. As you shoot you will evolve and you need an action that gives you options. Also ditch the lead sled for accuracy.

 

[09jisaac]

I'd say bail on your current rifle and get a donor you can have options with. As you shoot you will evolve and you need an action that gives you options. Also ditch the lead sled for accuracy.

The R700 action is one of the most versatile action around. Many of the best gunsmiths in the US are highly familiar with the 700 platform. If a gunsmith is good enough for me to take my firearm to, he/she most likely can (and will) work wonders on the 700. Many specialize in 700 type actions.

If you are meaning aftermarket stocks, chassises, triggers, bases then I think the 700 wins there too.

You can even upgrade to custom actions and still use parts of your 700 build.

 

[Masked]

So...I finished building my 300 WM about 5/6 months ago.

I've shot most other calibers, 30-06, 308, 408, 50, 338...For ME, the 300wm made the most sense.

I spend $1.50 a reload...Specifically: 208 Amax / Nosler Brass / 76gr H1000 -- Buying the same exact load from Hornady would cost me $3/round...And I lose @ 250 ft/s.

I shoot out to 1500...Things get a little dicey on the 208's past about 1350...For those shots, I recommend a 220 Sierra / 240 gr Sierra for 1350+.

For 300wm it's definitely a case of "buy once, cry once"...

@ OP, I'd ditch the barrel and the stock...Get a "beefier" stock you're comfortable with and a hardy barrel. M24 contours are great on the 300s...Other than that, magazines are definitely a "buy once cry once" sort of deal...At $75/per -- They're practically indestructible!

 

[dondlhmn]

I have been asking myself a similar question in regards to what is what with the Remington 700 DM and DBM guns as I have an action out of a DBM gun that I intend to use on a new build. First off, there seems to be some confusion as to whether those two are different....THEY ARE, but some people seem to use the terms interchangeably, which adds to the confusion. But, so far everything I can find out/figure out/measure myself about the DM rifles, the action and the whole receiver is the same as the "normal" Remmy 700s and the only difference is in the stock, the magazine and the bottom metal. You can put one of the originally DM actions into about any 700...ADL, BDL or CDL, etc.stock if you use the correct bottom metal and the right "magazine box" that goes in between the action and the bottom metal.

For what it is worth, here is one of my posts from a thread called Remington 700 Interchangeability:

"Well, it seems we have some differing opinions here, so I just now went up to my "gun /reloading room" (my wife calls it the JUNK ROOM!!) and took a Remmy 700 7mm-08 barreled action out of the stock (that gun is a CDL) and sat there with the barreled action from the DM .308 and the 7mm-08 right there side by side and compared them....I couldn't see ANY differences in the machining between the two of them...all rails, slots and other machined features seemed to be identical, as did everything I could see. OK...so they look the same....I then took the .308 (was in the DM setup) and put it into the 7mm-08 stock with all the stuff...floorplate, magazine "box" and everything from the 7mm-08 and put some cartridges in through the action. I then jacked them one by one through the action/chamber just as one normally would when firing a round and then reloading from the magazine. It worked perfectly...no hitches, glitches, jams or hesitations. Having compared the two actions very closely and then done this test, I now believe that the actions are the same and the only difference between a rifle with a floor plate, magazine box like the majority of 700s and the DM version is only the magazine and the stock. I guess maybe I answered my own question.....

Edit: I just went up and took some pictures...the action on the left in all of the pictures is off of the DM equipped rifle and the one on the right in all pictures is the 7mm-08 that had the usual hinged floor plate and magazine between the floor plate and the bottom of the action. I hope the pictures show enough detail so you all can see any differences...the pics were taken from the bottom right, straight into the bottom and then kind of looking into/through the loading/ejection port. In one picture you CAN see the bottom of the rear scope mount on the 7mm-08, so don't let that fool you. Just for further clarification, the one that is from the DM rifle has a one piece base and the two piece base outfit is the 7mm-08 that is from the "typical" two piece hinged bottom metal gun.

Anyone got any specific experiences or data (maybe from Remington) that would disprove my current findings? I'd like to hear from you!!"

FWIW, I'd say that you DID NOT screw up and buy the wrong rifle if you are happy with the caliber/barrel length/barrel weight, though that is easily enough changed. I haven't explored this any further, but I'd guess that if you want a DBM rifle, it won't be too hard to get your action into a setup that will work for you.

Me, personally....I am NOT into either using more than one shot to do the job or into the "tacticool" thing after spending 20 years as an Army guy (enlisted, then Warrant, then Commissioned officer that got to shoot about everything in the inventory one time or another) so am not all that big on the DBM thing. I'd rather spend the money on ACCURACY and ammo to practice with than on a DBM setup. As they say,there is NO substitute for TRIGGER TIME!!

Thanks,

Don J
Reno, NV

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[Merle]

As to the original post, no you didn't screw up by buying a Remington 700, but you are expecting too much for the variation you bought. You bought a hunting rifle, not a bench rest rifle. You are getting out of it what it was made to do. Ebay is the best place for that stock and dbm. Send the rest to Long Rifles Inc and have it built into a real targeg rifle. They have a group purchase going on for their services in the classifieds.

 

[MoBoost]

It's wrong caliber in the wrong barrel profile, wrong action in the wrong stock, with a crappy trigger... and it shoots like shit.

How can you say it's not a wrong rifle for intended purpose? Remington fan-boys never seize to amuse me .... you'll gladly take a kick in the nads, as long as the boot says green "R" on it.

 

[Sweetyzfd]

Lead sleds are horrible for what you are trying to do. They wobble all over the place

 

[Engine 22]

Lead sleds are horrible for what you are trying to do. They wobble all over the place

+1. I was never able to shoot good groups from my friends lead sled, went back to my rest/rear bag and never looked back.

 

[Merle]

It's wrong caliber in the wrong barrel profile, wrong action in the wrong stock, with a crappy trigger... and it shoots like shit.

How can you say it's not a wrong rifle for intended purpose? Remington fan-boys never seize to amuse me .... you'll gladly take a kick in the nads, as long as the boot says green "R" on it.

I'm glad I didn't "seize" to amuse you. Tell me again how many military units use Savage rifles.