Do-it-yourself- FGMM

[300ATT]

FWIW,

I had too much time on my hands on Saturday and decided that I would try and see if I could duplicate 168 and 175 FGMM.

I'm sure that this has been discussed before but I thought that I would share my findings.

1. I took a random sample of 7 rounds each of 168 and 175 FGMM
2. I measured the bullets (not off the ogive) and came up with an average OCL of 2.802 for the 175's and 2.800 for the 168's
3. I weighed the power charges and found that the 168 FGMM had an extreme spread that varied by .7 grains (this was surprising!) and averaged 44.3gr. The 175 gr loads had a .4 gr spread and averaged 43.0gr.
4. I used a very unscientific approach to "guess" at the powder by noting that it looks identical to Reloader-15 (I know, I know that the powders that manufacturers buy bulk may not be / are not the same as the ones that we buy by the can).
5. I checked the reloading manuals and this charge wt. is middle of the road for Re-15 ... should be safe.
6. I ran some Once fired FGMM brass though a small base Redding resizing die.
7. I ass-u-med that they were using Fed 210M primers (although) this may not be true - mine are silver theirs are brass colored. In the end decided to go with my gut and not to decap a live primer.
8. I loaded 15 of each (44.3 gr of Re-15, SMK 168 2.800" OCL and 43.0gr of Re-15 and SMK 175, 2.800" OCL) and went to the range on Monday for some unscientific testing.
9. The unscientific test consisted of shooting two 4-shot groups each of the test loads and out of the box 168 and 175 FGMM at 1" diamonds at 100 yards.

After 32 shots through a precision tactical gun (M2008, Oberymer barrel, A-5, S&B 3-12 ... ) I found that the point of impact was identical between my test loads and FGMM. I also found that the group sizes were "pretty much" the same (.4 - .6" for the 168's and .3-.5" for the 175's.

In hindsight I should have broken out the chronograph but it is a hassle and I was playing hooky from work.

If nothing else this was kind of fun and I found two loads that have great promise. I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience doing this.

Good shooting ...

 

[DarkD]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

Nice research! Very unsceintifcly scientific! If you get a chance to test some on a chrono, that would be really awesome.

 

[SIG700]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

I wonder how many people are now loading this exact load after seeing this post. If only I had some fed210m's...

 

[adam3999]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

I worked up a similar load that has been a consistent 0.5 MOA for me. I tried IMR 4895, Varget and BLC-2 before I settled on RL-15.

168gr SMK
43.0gr RL-15
Winchester brand brass - 1x fire-formed and neck-sized
Federal 210M primers
2.005" trim
2.800" COAL

 

[David_M]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

Tag for later reference.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .300 AT&T</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
7. I ass-u-med that they were using Fed 210M primers (although) this may not be true - mine are silver theirs are brass colored. In the end decided to go with my gut and not to decap a live primer.
</div></div>

I decapped 30 live primers, FGMM if it matters, last eve and lived to tell about it.

Guess I better run out and buy a lottery ticket.

 

[BCP]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

Interesting. Awhile back I took apart 168FGMM and it looked like 41.5-42 4064 powder they must have changed.

43 grains of RL15, Varget or 4064 in thick brass + 175SMK seems to be ballpark for everyone out there.

 

[Cuban Croc]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

There is a positive and a negative to the scenario.

Positive. Your running the same ammo as FGM. So, you don't have any rounds made, you can go buy some and shoot it w/out making any major dope changes and that is the round you practice w/etc.

Negative. I can reload a better round for my rifle than FGM. FGM is a great round, but they also want to make money. So, they make a round that is not sensitive to the conditions and shoots in almost any platform and don't have to add or take any extra expense in powder.

I like the idea and did basically same thing and decides I wanted my 175's to go faster....

 

[jdgray]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .300 AT&T</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
7. I ass-u-med that they were using Fed 210M primers (although) this may not be true - mine are silver theirs are brass colored. In the end decided to go with my gut and not to decap a live primer.
</div></div>

I decapped 30 live primers, FGMM if it matters, last eve and lived to tell about it.

Guess I better run out and buy a lottery ticket.
</div></div>

Not all that dangerous to do, as you are pressing, not smacking them out. I even roll the dice on the occasional backwards installed primers, still no issue if you go easy.

 

[300ATT]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

OK, I need to make a confession w/respect to not decapping the live primers. I resisted decapping them not because I was afraid of hurting myself (I have done this many times before) but because I couldn't bear to trash rounds that cost me over two dollars each. I even reassembled the ones that I took apart - they shot great. There, now I feel better.

Funny how you can spend $3+K on a rifle and $2+K on optics and then agonize over a $2.00 cartridge.

I have also found other recipes that shoot better than FGMM but the fact that I one time spent $40 on a box of 175 FGMM somehow makes them special ...

 

[colt933]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

I have posted this many times. I took FGMM 175SMK 7.62x51 factory ammo, and LC M118LR factory ammo, and duplicated the velocity with Varget, LC Match or Win brass, 175SMK or 178AMAX, and CCI 200. When I duplicated the velocity, I duplicated the point of impact and the accuracy. The loads:

175SMK
Win brass
44.0gr Varget
CCI 200
COAL 2.805
slight Lee factory crimp

175SMK
LC Match brass
42.8gr Varget
CCI 200
COAL 2.805
slight Lee factory crimp

Substitute 178AMAX and get same results - although the AMAX may be slightly more accurate.

YMMV but this works for me - these loads are sub-MOA in every single .308 rifle I've tried them in - Steyr SBS tac, several R 700s, Noveske AR10, SCAR-H, etc. Several friends and I have shot 3-shot one hole or 5-shot all touching groups at 200 yards with these loads with the 178AMAX.

 

[noz455sd]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

Hey colt what dies are you using for sizing and seating?

 

[Muttt]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .300 AT&T</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny how you can spend $3+K on a rifle and $2+K on optics and then agonize over a $2.00 cartridge.</div></div>




The money spent on the rifle is a one time thing. The money spent on 1000 rounds of FGMM might .... might get me through the year.

 

[ofelas]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

I found 42.5 of RL-15 with 210M in Win brass seated at 2.800 to give me ~2560 fps out of a 20" barrel, and a very close performer to FGMM 168.

I use 43.5 of RL-15 with the same brass/primer/COAL with 175 SMK & found it to be very very close to FGMM 175.

Not necessarily the best but consistently 1/2 MOA & easily substituted with off the shelf Federal ammo with negligible POI changes.

Now to find a similar load with 168 grain TTSX that comes close in duplicating the 168 FGMM out to about 500 yards is my next goal, factory Vor-TX is just too much $$.

 

[ED_RN]

Re: Do-it-yourself- FGMM

Frist of all you will never duplicate the load. You can mimic the velocity. Federal uses non canister grade of powder that we can not buy. So, your best and only way to mimic the load is to chrono the loads in your gun, then work up a load to mimic it in your gun.

Using WIN brass defeats the purpose....then again Federal Brass sucks for reloading ie soft and short case life. It is have been alluded that the brass being soft contributes to the accuracy potential of FGM ammo.

Personally, just work up accurate loads and quit trying to duplicated what you can not do without the same powder.....

Of course one would suspect the powder used would be a Variant of RL15 now days, at one time it was 4064.

Lake City M852 was loaded with 4895