Dually or single wheel pickup?

sirhrmechanic

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
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Feb 23, 2010
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#1
So off to pick up a new truck next couple of days... It will be another 3500 Cummins.

I am debating a dually. The upside is that it is great for towing.

The downside is that it is a PITA for plowing.

I do quite a bit of both.

Thinking I will go with another crew-cab 2-rear wheel (not dually), but get the long box for a bit of extra towing stability/wheelbase and because I can carry bikes with the gate closed. Not that my short box has had issues. But wheelbase is wheelbase.

Other downsides of dually is changing to winter (studded) tires is a pain. And it's 6 tires... not 4. Whenever it needs tires. And they are tougher to park, maneuver, etc. But I have my Jeep for 'everyday' driving. So truck is for work, not parking at the local restaurant.

So what say you guys? Opinions? Thoughts? Experiences?

BTW, when I checked the hours-meter for my 2012 (bought new by me) Ram, it is over 3200 hours... That's 1.5 work YEARS... that I have spent towing, plowing and generally long-trip driving. So I better like what I get. I had never added up the hours before. That's a lot of driving! I know... compared to you long-haul trucker-guys, not much. But, still. that's 5 months, 24x7 in a truck in just 7 years. Wow.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
#5
Don't tow much heavy anymore so I'm dumping my RAM dually in a few months and going back to F350 SRW. How 'bout a 2015 Longhorn w/ just under 12k miles?
 
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#6
Well, all Dually's don't have the wide fenders. Here in Montana there are vehicles that are called "Ranch Trucks". Yes, they have dual wheels but they have a flat bed, goose neck bed, round hay bale beds, etc..... They plow all winter with this setup. With a Ranch Truck, the outer dual wheel tracks with the front wheel so you're not all up on the berms where the big snow plows leave a mound of snow on the edge of the road.
Just an example:
www.fastline.com

Butler Bale Bed (11340887) GODDARD EQUIPMENT PENOKEE Kansas | Fastline

Butler Bale Bed for sale at GODDARD EQUIPMENT in PENOKEE, KS
www.fastline.com www.fastline.com
 
#8
If the heaviest load you have in the bed, or over the axle, at any given time is less than the tire rating can stand, then srw. If you do put a big load over the axle then dually. Simple as that really.
I have a 3500 srw. Tow a large fiver. The srw has always been good enough. But that's just me.
 
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#12
If you want a soft ride get a MB S550.

In my experience, if you want a WORK truck the best all round choice is a cab and chassis then install a flatbed with or w/o a dump, like the one in the photo below. I had a Chevy with a 454 but if I did it again Id go diesel. Remember, now you have to add Uric acid to the diesel...maybe not in trucks. I ran a stone masonry business for years and a pick up is a waste. With an 8' stake bed you can carry a lot more, load and unload more easily, and the weight makes it ride better. Fuck the studded tires, get a set of single chains. You can roll the inside wheel onto a log or rock and easily put the chains on the outside wheel and that will get you through a lot more than studded tires. Believe me, BTDT. I used to tow people up to the local ski resorts and get $40 per haul...made $440 one night.

Unless you just want to carry a lot of passengers, why get a crew cab? Just more expense and youll have plenty of room in the standard...unless youre carrying passengers.

I used to laugh at the ones with their pickup who were afraid to carry a load of dirt because "It might scratch the Duraliner" WTF is a truck for? Most of those idiots use to to go to work and back and never need a truck, its just a man bun sorta thing. Especially in Texas.

If you add a winch put it on the rear so you can pull yourself back out...WTF good is it on the front? So you can pull yourself deeper into the muck.

7086947
 
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#13
It was a LOT of years ago, when I looked at a new truck. Compared the dually with the SRW and at the time ('99) the SRW had a HIGHER towing capacity. The dually had a higher CARRYING capacity. If that difference still exists, and/or if that makes a difference in your thoughts, I dunno.

And yes, chains make a huge difference than studs. Now, maybe you still are wanting a dually.... and maybe you are looking at carrying SOME of your cannon (a Brace) around with you for ballast, instead of just A cannon.

Again, I dunno.

:D
 
#14
Sean the Nailer said:
It was a LOT of years ago, when I looked at a new truck. Compared the dually with the SRW and at the time ('99) the SRW had a HIGHER towing capacity. The dually had a higher CARRYING capacity. If that difference still exists, and/or if that makes a difference in your thoughts, I dunno.

And yes, chains make a huge difference than studs. Now, maybe you still are wanting a dually.... and maybe you are looking at carrying SOME of your cannon (a Brace) around with you for ballast, instead of just A cannon.

Again, I dunno.

:D
Click to expand...
That's not true any longer. Back then the disparity was the overall weight difference that dually had that caused them to tow less.
Now, in order to tow the most (like the tow max option on the Ram - over 30k) you must have the dually.
 
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#17
Single. Duals are worthless in snow or mud. Duals are a PITA to chain, but mostly only chain fronts but if you buy a duals then you will need to chain the back end too

We have pulled heavy gooseneck trailers for years with SRW trucks, never wished for a duals once. If your name is Bubba or Joe Bob then maybe think about a dually.

I’m a Ford guy but new Dodges have some nice features, can’t really go wrong with either
 
#22
Dumped diesel for gas on 2011 F350 and probably gonna do same again. Bought the RAM thinking everyone should have a Cummins at least once. Love the engine but half a dozen recall letters on my desk and lots of minor fit/finish/squeek/rattle issues that shouldn't exist in a $60k truck (or $75k now!!). No more Dodge for me unless a nice old Power Wagon.
 
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#24
Waorani said:
Dumped diesel for gas on 2011 F350 and probably gonna do same again. Bought the RAM thinking everyone should have a Cummins at least once. Love the engine but half a dozen recall letters on my desk and lots of minor fit/finish/squeek/rattle issues that shouldn't exist in a $60k truck (or $75k now!!). No more Dodge for me unless a nice old Power Wagon.
Click to expand...
That has always been a problem with Dodge. Fucking doors flap like bird wings.
 
#25
Honestly, I am also waiting to see how Fords new gasser performs.

If it can tow say 12-15k and get 10 mpg then maybe... but if it can't pull and gets 5 mpg doing it like the v10 they had, forget it.

It will get the new 10 speed transmission
 
#27
I have gone back and forth on singles and duals. Bought another dual truck 2 years ago and no regrets, handles the 10-24k trailers so much better. Tires last longer as the trailer weight is spread over 4 tires. Yeah parking isn't as fun and in the mud it sucks. But what long bed crew cab diesel is good in the mud?
 
#29
Soulezoo said:
If the heaviest load you have in the bed, or over the axle, at any given time is less than the tire rating can stand, then srw. If you do put a big load over the axle then dually. Simple as that really.
I have a 3500 srw. Tow a large fiver. The srw has always been good enough. But that's just me.
Click to expand...

My philosophy as well.
 
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#30
I have had several dually's in the past, will probably never own one again. Unless you need the extra load carrying capacity of those extra two tires every day they are a waste. I pull heavy trailers around the farm but it only happens once a week or so. The single rear wheel F-350 does fine, have never once wished I had a dually back.
 
#31
The axle and springs for the 3500 srw and drw are the same. It's the extra tire and the load that it can carry that is the difference. So, and the load data plate (gvwr) on the door frame aside, one could certainly put on some g rated commercial tires (make sure the wheel ratings match) a pair of air bags (not mother's in law), and have at it. Not recommended, but doable.
The training wheels on the dually do provide a great deal of lateral stability with a heavy load or with sizable side winds.
 
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#32
I've only had SRW trucks all 3500s. Only reason I've ever wanted a dually was for more bed space on my welding rig, not for payload or stability. I buy SRW trucks to keep away from DOT regs also. With my SRW trucks I can pull my 14k gvwr trailer without getting DOT invloved. Can't do that with a dually.
 
#33
TxWelder35 said:
I've only had SRW trucks all 3500s. Only reason I've ever wanted a dually was for more bed space on my welding rig, not for payload or stability. I buy SRW trucks to keep away from DOT regs also. With my SRW trucks I can pull my 14k gvwr trailer without getting DOT invloved. Can't do that with a dually.
Click to expand...

I ran them for years and never had to deal with DOT. That was nearly 20 years ago so maybe its changed?
 
#36
TxWelder35 said:
In Texas unless you have farm tags or pulling an RV, if truck and trailer combined gvwr is over 26k you need DOT #s
Click to expand...
Actually over 26k combined, or over 10k trailer commercial is DOT and CDL land and that's Federal not just Texas. The 10k trailer is enforced loosely, the 26k combined is a hard line. Dually and 14k trailer and your over. If your private in Texas it's a grey area, Book states any trailer over 10k must have class A, doesn't have to be commercial if your private. I have a CDL, my wife has the non commercial class A to cover pulling the trailers.
 
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#37
missed said:
Actually over 26k combined, or over 10k trailer commercial is DOT and CDL land and that's Federal not just Texas. The 10k trailer is enforced loosely, the 26k combined is a hard line. Dually and 14k trailer and your over. If your private in Texas it's a grey area, Book states any trailer over 10k must have class A, doesn't have to be commercial if your private. I have a CDL, my wife has the non commercial class A to cover pulling the trailers.
Click to expand...
Doesn't the 10k trailer only apply if you are going over state lines?
 
#38
So its always a compromise. Do you spend more time towing/plowing than just regular driving? The extra tires are a PITA as far as everyday type driving and offroad as well. But the extra stability when pulling loads is a real plus and a flat bed really makes a truck a lot easier to work off so there is that. One item to remember is that a dually has less weight on each tire so if you are running empty and roads are slick you have even less traction.
 
#39
we have 3 F350
1 F450
1 F700
all dual rear wheels, ONLY reason, prolonged weight over axle.
we pull gooseneck trailers maxed out.
if you put a gooseneck hitch on, please dont put a 5th wheel in your bed, let me send you pics of the one i made for mine
 
#41
I have gone with singles. Front wheel opens it up and the rear follows, without another tire mashing mud, snow, ice. etc. down.

My Dodge Ram has 6.7 L Cummins and does great. Good tires. All OEM.

Regular repairs and tuneups have altered but not deleted various aspects of the engine.

I always imagine that there is an egg shell between my foot and the fuel. Don't crush the egg and mileage will be great. Step on it and there is more power than I want to fuck with. Top speed is 92 MPH, but I don't drive that fast???

Great truck and serves me well with 10 years and lots of miles. Going Strong. FM
 
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#43
Maggot said:
I ran them for years and never had to deal with DOT. That was nearly 20 years ago so maybe its changed?
Click to expand...
Maybe, FMCSA has gotten much more strict over the last couple decades and I didn't deal in CDL stuff then. The rules governing vehicles used for commerce differ from private usage, but quite frankly many small business owners (especially those who register a vehicle to their dubious LLC for tax deduction reasons) aren't operating within DOT rules when they hook a trailer up to their truck. Anything being used interstate with a GVWR and/or GCWR >10,000 lbs requires DOT compliance (including hours of service and documentation/inspection requirements), and intrastate rules apply to many others as well. Farmers get a lot of exceptions depending on their state's laws, but those all go to the wayside as soon as they haul a load of hay to their neighboring state as that state's laws then come into play. It's pretty easy to get over 10k with a half ton truck and medium size trailer, even with some of the smaller trucks and SUVs these days and their higher towing capacities. Again, this is commercial regs

Here's a good resource to determine if you're required by the feds to have a DOT number, but don't forget to look into your state's rules as well:

Do I Need a USDOT Number? | FMCSA

Companies that operate commercial vehicles transporting passengers or hauling cargo in interstate commerce must be registered with the FMCSA and must have a USDOT Number. Also, commercial intrastate hazardous materials carriers who haul quantities requiring a safety permit must register for a...
www.fmcsa.dot.gov www.fmcsa.dot.gov

All of our company's vehicles have a DOT number if they have a tow hitch, even our Explorers with a GVWR under 10k, as well as everyone not a manager in my department have to have a Class A CDL just to cover every base we may come across. Thankfully we have plenty of lawyers who keep us out of trouble on that bullshit, and the easiest avoidance is blanket registration.

TxWelder35 said:
Doesn't the 10k trailer only apply if you are going over state lines?
Click to expand...
I do not believe staying inside TX gets you around that, but intrastate is one of those weird categories with a wide variety of rules. I would contact the TX agencies for info on that, but a quick look at the above link shows Texas on the list of states that require you to have a DOT number. You being a welder, I would think you would be under hazmat and require a CDL and DOT registration anyhow, but I assume you certainly know what you're doing there. I'm glad we don't have to deal with hazmat on my job other than filling out the forms to ensure we're staying under the weights on those types of materials. Fuck hazmat.

Even for private usage, many get into trouble with the 26,001 lbs threshold as well as length limits when trekking across the US, local scales before getting on the road are your friend since many states even require RVs to go through their weigh stations (Nebraska is a very good example, and SD requires anything over 10k to hit the scales). Additionally, states differ in license class requirements for towing heavy too, although most of the time those reciprocate so long as you're legal in your state, but not always. Just like concealed carry reciprocity, one has to do their homework to determine whether they will be legal when traveling across state lines with their rig. One of my co-workers just moved to Washington with his 5th wheel camper and 12' trailer running double, and he had to drop the trailer in ID because neither OR or WA allow doubles behind a private dually config, even his CDL with doubles/triples endorsement wasn't enough because of the vehicle he was driving. There's plenty of resources to scout that out, proper preparation for a trip is far cheaper than a ticket, and there's some high level assholes working at weigh stations that either don't know their own laws or just don't care, they're writing you a ticket because they hate their own life and want you to join in.

To answer Sirhr and keep on topic, pushing snow screams single axle to me.
 
#45
bhanley said:
single axle and an old beater. why a new truck? are the de-icers these days as hard on metals as old days and just gonna rust it all out? only ask as i dont have experience up north.
Click to expand...
If he's pushing snow, I assume he's doing it on his own property without the salt involved. It's still just a way of life in the rust belt, and old beaters are just that much closer to their rusty demise and often can't pass state inspections anyhow.
 
#47
Maggot said:
Now lets not get personal. :unsure:
Click to expand...
If the tire fits... ;)

I'm all for avoiding the tax man in any way legally possible, but it still needs to be done properly. Those guys at the ports/weigh stations don't fuck around, and the associated fines are no bullshit and aren't deductible, especially when running a vehicle registered to a company (therefore commercial) and you're overweight and without the required CDL.
 
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#48
Redmanss said:
If the tire fits... ;)

I'm all for avoiding the tax man in any way legally possible, but it still needs to be done properly. Those guys at the ports/weigh stations don't fuck around, and the associated fines are no bullshit and aren't deductible, especially when running a vehicle registered to a company (therefore commercial) and you're overweight and without the required CDL.
Click to expand...
I've heard the 10k trailer thing a couple times but every time I've used the TX dps website to determine if I need #s and A CDL it says no..... Truck is 12k gvwr trailer is 14k. Registered commercial with commercial insurance. No numbers and don't plan to get em. No other welder around here has em either. Keeping up with DOT requirements would make me find another line of work.
 
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#49
Well, ended up just getting the same truck I got last time...

Didn’t get the long box.

But got a Lariat as I spend enough time in it that I just wanted a higher trim level. So far, nothing much more than my last one with 300 more foot pounds! The torque is incredible on these things!

I have also applied to MIT as I will need degrees in EE, comp sci, AI and probably astronomy in order to figure out the nav screen!

Oh... arrived at dealer to watch a funnel cloud trying to form overhead...
57990C79-78FF-4FE4-85A9-743DF87F0F46.jpeg


But as I went out to get in new truck, I was greeted by this.

B4F82382-6731-4428-9294-3967C8B8EC55.jpeg


So new truck is either blessed by Leprechauns, or gay as hell...

Cheers, Sirhr

PS: bye old truck!
F257D7F5-90A1-4B3A-97BE-46CDC500EEEE.jpeg
 
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