Rifle Scopes Elevation and Long Dist issue...Nikon Black FX1000 6x24x FFP

[Pge]

I've mounted a Nikon FX1000 6x24x MRAD on my rifle.

There's a 17 mil MAX adjustment internally. It's on a 20 MOA rail on my Ruger Hawkeye 6.5 PRC Long Dist Rifle.

It's extremely accurate out to 500 yards. That's the extent of my range.

It's zeroed at 100 yards

Since I have a mechanical stop range of only 11 mills from my zero in the up direction... that leaves six mils below that as unusable. That's a lot of top side range lost.

If the scope is level on a 20MOA rail @100 yard the shot would be 20" high. That is 5.55 mils. Therefore, 8.5 (half the 17 max) + 5.5 (needed to lower the 20" to zero) = 14 MRAD should be available for extended elevation. Obviously minus a small amount to set at 100 yards. I have 11 mils. Leaving 6 below that's wasted.

That's the math.

With the 5 mil holdover capacity,l on the recycle, that's a 1550 max range.
1286 yards if on the Crosshair.

Hmmm... So what's missing?

Maybe the 20MOA mount...isn't. Or it's not mounted correctly by Ruger...or maybe the scope rings are lifting the rear....??

Going to chat with the Ruger tech I've talked with before...and send him the mathematics.

But I'm looking for some ideas or instruction if any can be given.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Have you checked the the turret adjustment has 17 mil from stop to stop.

 

[Pge]

Hello,

Yes I have.

Both do.

I'm suspecting either the 20MOA mount or the rings.

I want the capacity for mile shots at a friend's ranch. I'll need 21.7 mils. I have 11 remaining on the turret, plus 5 holdover available.

I certainly was not 20" high first shot after mounting the FX1000. I was no more the 8".

This gun/scope is so accurate for all the ranges I currently have available and any Deer/Elk hunting etc.

I probably will not be attempting any remounting of the scope, until I actually have a trip planned to NM to hit a mile+ target.

I'll be talking to a Ruger tech tomorrow. This has to be a mount or rings issue.

 

[Mordamer]

Most likely the barrel just isn't pointed straight in relation to the receiver. This is common and if the barrel happens to be pointed down then that eats up some of your elevation. Just buy a 40 MOA base if you can and it should be almost perfect.

 

[Pge]

That's very interesting! .

I wouldn't have expected a barrel variation issue. It Makes sense though as this is extremely accurate at least to 500 yards, which is all I have to shoot at do far. And, that condition would eat up elevation adjustment!

The Ruger Hawkeye Long Distance has a "free float" barrel...but the chamber section is supported by the stock.

You've seen this before then?

Question: If I add additional MOA, how do I then determine an accurate "scope height" above the barrel for ballistics computations? The barrel and scope are not parallel obviously.

 

[Mordamer]

That's very interesting! .

I wouldn't have expected a barrel variation issue. It Makes sense though as this is extremely accurate at least to 500 yards, which is all I have to shoot at do far. And, that condition would eat up elevation adjustment!

The Ruger Hawkeye Long Distance has a "free float" barrel...but the chamber section is supported by the stock.

You've seen this before then?

Question: If I add additional MOA, how do I then determine an accurate "scope height" above the barrel for ballistics computations? The barrel and scope are not parallel obviously.

I have seen this before.
No barrel is pointed perfectly straight with the action. All barrels have some amount of curve in the bore. Factory barrels are generally worse.

Don't over think it on the scope height. Measure with a ruler from the center of the action to the center of the scope tube and input that number. It does not make a drastic difference on ballistics.

 

[Pge]

Copy that!
Thanks!

 

[Dstoenner]

Get a set of Burris signature XTR rings. Then you can use the inserts to zero the scope to the rifle and get your missing elevation back. I have done that with both of my f-class rifles with both a NXS and a GE. I set it up so that I was slightly less than 1 turn off of bottom (10 moa) so that also serves as my zero stop

David

 

[Steel head]

17 mils is not a lot of travel in a scope.

My scope in my 260 has 32 Mils and with a 30moa rail I can dial 22.8 Mils

 

[Pge]

Thanks guys!

Good idea. I'll check into the Burris.

And Yes, 17 mils isn't that much.

But this is a 26" Barrel in 6.5 PRC. So it has useable range in the bracket of the Nikon...IF I wasn't losing some elevation due to the possible Receiver/Barrel differences.

All good!
I appreciate the input.

 

[Pge]

Get a set of Burris signature XTR rings. Then you can use the inserts to zero the scope to the rifle and get your missing elevation back. I have done that with both of my f-class rifles with both a NXS and a GE. I set it up so that I was slightly less than 1 turn off of bottom (10 moa) so that also serves as my zero stop

David

Hello!

Got the Burress rings and put them on this morning and went shooting today to get them set. I noticed it was way out of kilter it took about 20 rounds to even find where the rounds were going!

finally got it all set up shooting nice tight groups for cracks up targets at 200 bull's-eyes prompted back four clicks on target 100 yard.

But... MOA did not change. Basically 1.3 mils is all I gainedon the upside. initially used their 5M away elevation in the back. Then I decided to try their other half of that and put a -20 on the bottom in front and +20 on the top of the front.

The gun is level. The scope turret is level. But when I turned on the lighted reticle to look through the inside to see the reticle, ....it's tilted about 15° to the right! The gun is level! The scope mounting is level. Proved not just by eye...but bubble levels on both!

The reticle INSIDE somehow has moved.

Never dropped! Never hit!

Shooting today I saw there were a couple flyers...refund is odd! But I did not notice any TILT until after I changed the spacers tonight!

What the hech?


Ideas??
Bad scope?? New!

 

[Pge]

Get a set of Burris signature XTR rings. Then you can use the inserts to zero the scope to the rifle and get your missing elevation back. I have done that with both of my f-class rifles with both a NXS and a GE. I set it up so that I was slightly less than 1 turn off of bottom (10 moa) so that also serves as my zero stop

David

Hello!

Got the Burress rings and put them on this morning and went shooting today to get them set. I noticed it was way out of kilter it took about 20 rounds to even find where the rounds were going!

finally got it all set up shooting nice tight groups four clicks up...hitting targets at 200 yards bull's-eyes. Then back four clicks on target @100 yard.

But... MOA did not change. Basically 1.3 mils is all I gained on the upside. initially used their 5MOA elevation in the back. Then I decided to try their other half of that and put a -20 on the bottom in front and +20 on the top of the front.

The gun is level. The scope turret is level. But when I turned on the lighted reticle to look through the inside to see the reticle, ....it's tilted about 15° to the right! The gun is level! The scope mounting is level. Proved not just by eye...but bubble levels on both!

The reticle INSIDE somehow has moved.

Never dropped! Never hit!

Shooting today I saw there were a couple flyers...which was odd! But I did not notice any TILT until after I changed the spacers tonight!

What the hech?


Ideas??
Bad scope?? It's basically New!

 

[MarinePMI]

Your scope is toast (not surprisingly, since Nikons are not known as high quality long range scopes).

Send it in for replacement warranty.

Personally, I’d suggest a better scope. Even a Burris XTR II would blow that Nikon out of the water tracking wise, as well as robustness.

JMTCW....

 

[Dstoenner]

Hello!

Got the Burress rings and put them on this morning and went shooting today to get them set. I noticed it was way out of kilter it took about 20 rounds to even find where the rounds were going!

finally got it all set up shooting nice tight groups for cracks up targets at 200 bull's-eyes prompted back four clicks on target 100 yard.

But... MOA did not change. Basically 1.3 mils is all I gainedon the upside. initially used their 5M away elevation in the back. Then I decided to try their other half of that and put a -20 on the bottom in front and +20 on the top of the front.

The gun is level. The scope turret is level. But when I turned on the lighted reticle to look through the inside to see the reticle, ....it's tilted about 15° to the right! The gun is level! The scope mounting is level. Proved not just by eye...but bubble levels on both!

The reticle INSIDE somehow has moved.

Never dropped! Never hit!

Shooting today I saw there were a couple flyers...refund is odd! But I did not notice any TILT until after I changed the spacers tonight!

What the hech?


Ideas??
Bad scope?? New!

I agree with MarinePMI that it is now a bad scope. That sucks.

Just to give you an idea of how I setup my rings/scope for future reference. I used a chamber bore sighter and picked something about 25 yards away. That is close to the first line of sight crossing of the bullet which is now the bore light. I noted how far up from the bottom stop of the elevation dial this was and where the dot was with respect to the reticle.

I then did some planing on how to use the inserts to get the right amount of extra elevation but still be into the elevation adjustment. I have found that on tall target tests that as you get close to one end (like the last 5 MOA) the clicks aren't linear anymore. So that would mean to me I would want to stay at least 5 MOA off bottom and less than 1 revolution off bottom. Then I picked my combinations to give me as close to that as possible. Both scopes I set up this way I didn't have an issue with windage not being pretty centered so I didn't diddle with that. That then let me put the adjustment inserts horizontal (even with the break in the mount). Just to be clear you use the inserts as a pair. Whether you are adding or subtracting MOA is by which one of the pair is up

Once I had it all tightened down, I then rechecked where the red dot on the same object I started with and verified that I had put in the right amount of adjustment. Next was a trip to the range to finalize everything. Hasn't changed in 3 years.

David

 

[MarinePMI]

Everyone has their preferences, and that is fine.

That being said, I am not a fan of Burris rings with inserts. In my mind, it’s another variable for something to go wrong.

If you need more elevation get an appropriately canted mount, top with quality rings, and be done with it.

I have watched this thread, and not said anything about it, but feel if you’re going to replace the scope, you may as well start over from the bottom up; base, ring and scope.

And yes, I’ve used Signature rings before. Before I understood that s solid, well made ring was way better than a doughnut ring with a polymer insert. How precise do you think that polymer is when torqued under pressure? Think about it, it’s like using RTV silicone to glue your scope into the rings.

Maybe I’m over dramatizing it, but solid rings just seems like a better solution to me....

 

[patriot07]

Most likely the barrel just isn't pointed straight in relation to the receiver. This is common and if the barrel happens to be pointed down then that eats up some of your elevation. Just buy a 40 MOA base if you can and it should be almost perfect.

Yep