FBI Sniper Rifles
- Thread starter Toftwo
- Start date
I never saw a Remington 760 in the field. But very shortly after I got to my second office (around 1982), some M-16's started showing up at the firearms sessions. These were in pretty good shape and had carry handles and those kind of triangular shaped handguards, like the M-16's you see in old Viet Nam newscasts. The weird thing about them was that someone had come up with some kind of stamped metal piece that fit between the pistol grip and the selector switch. You could put the switch on safe and semi, but this metal piece prevented the switch from being pushed over to full.
Guess they didn't trust us.
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It was there in 1988 when I went there on a Special.
That's a Savage 1928-A1, WWII vintage, not a Colt. Makes me feel better you aren't out blasting with a Colt.
Can I assume that it's an old office, if they have Thompsons in inventory?
I think every office has a couple. 56 field offices…. The FBI has hundreds of them, all functional.
The gun vault up in Quantico has had a whole bunch of spare parts made to keep them all running. I guess one version of the gun is bad about breaking bolts…?
T
The '21 and '28 Colt had the fragile bolt/actuators. The war production bolts held up better. The Colts have also been known to crack the rear of the receiver. I don't know if that was from higher pressure ammo or just shooting the crap out of them.
Most people that have Colt they shoot take out the original parts and shoot WWII parts. All the Thompson parts are getting scarce. 15-20 years ago there was a large pile of new in the crates 1928-A1's found in Russia. Someone got import permits on the parts kits. They sold everything, drums, mags, the crates. This was before the import ban on barrels. Barrels are hardest part to find.
Interesting fact on the Colts. Remington made the butt stocks. When you pull it off the receiver, there is an anchor mark at the edge. If not there, it's not an original Colt stock.
They also have a long story of Thompsons being smuggled to the IRA in the early 1920's. If I remember J Edger Hoover raided a ship with a load of Thompsons leaving Jersey for Ireland.
There were about 15,000 original Colts and no telling how many military WWII vintage 1928's, 1928-A1's, M1's, and M1-A1's were produced. There are a couple of books that have documented where some of the Colts were originally sold. You could buy them at the local hardware store.
The '21 and '28 Colt had the fragile bolt/actuators. The war production bolts held up better. The Colts have also been known to crack the rear of the receiver. I don't know if that was from higher pressure ammo or just shooting the crap out of them.
Most people that have Colt they shoot take out the original parts and shoot WWII parts. All the Thompson parts are getting scarce. 15-20 years ago there was a large pile of new in the crates 1928-A1's found in Russia. Someone got import permits on the parts kits. They sold everything, drums, mags, the crates. This was before the import ban on barrels. Barrels are hardest part to find.
Interesting fact on the Colts. Remington made the butt stocks. When you pull it off the receiver, there is an anchor mark at the edge. If not there, it's not an original Colt stock.
They also have a long story of Thompsons being smuggled to the IRA in the early 1920's. If I remember J Edger Hoover raided a ship with a load of Thompsons leaving Jersey for Ireland.
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Ok, you order the correct stock, and survey me your wrong GP stock. I'll make sure it's pampered, cared for, and used killing feral hogs with its new winchester occupant I will put in it.
That sound good to you ?
Say yes Steve, yes... yes..... yes.....
You already have my ship to address.
It looks really good in the GPH stock! I’m to cheap to reorder a new one then have someone mill it outOk, you order the correct stock, and survey me your wrong GP stock. I'll make sure it's pampered, cared for, and used killing feral hogs with its new winchester occupant I will put in it.
That sound good to you ?
Say yes Steve, yes... yes..... yes.....
You already have my ship to address.
I remember those full auto lock out plates. My Cadet Battalion received an issue of M-16’s from Fort Irwin for an FTX weekend and they had them on every rifle. One of the upper class men said that they had been issued to his CA National Guard Unit during the Rodney King Riots.
Here's something you can all mull over.
Few years back I snagged an FN A3G from the pro shop at the Columbia SC factory prior to closure.
Here is the kicker, the serial is FBI0021. The manager at the time said it was one of two from the FBI submission program he received (he took serial 007).
I don't have the slightest idea how to get any information on it, or a way to verify the legitimacy of his statement, other than him being a good friend and had no reason to lie...plus the serial is kinda hard to argue with.
Few years back I snagged an FN A3G from the pro shop at the Columbia SC factory prior to closure.
Here is the kicker, the serial is FBI0021. The manager at the time said it was one of two from the FBI submission program he received (he took serial 007).
I don't have the slightest idea how to get any information on it, or a way to verify the legitimacy of his statement, other than him being a good friend and had no reason to lie...plus the serial is kinda hard to argue with.
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Photo taken through the scope of an HS Precision rifle at a fairly famous crisis site in Alabama, 2013.
Ethan is his name. Yeah, I wonder what he thinks looking back on all that.
Nice duplex Vari-X III if anyone is looking. I.E. someone buy it and keep me from doing so.
Couldn't find any pics of the "sniper tower". Best I could come up with was a pic of the old DC4 parked near the ranges
They also had the fuselage of a Huey suspended about 10 or 15 feet in the air to train in. One weekend I was bored and climbed into the Huey and took a pic of the DC4
Damn, they even have the key to the case!!!
They don’t store them in the case, I hope?
That lining can absorb moisture. I had a really nice Colt ‘28 Navy out of a GA PD that was left in a case. It had a really bad 2”x1” rust spot with pretty heavy putting on the left side. Don’t remember if there was bow in the divider or ??
Nah, I don’t store it in the case. It stays in a safe, inside the vault and the case rests on an upper shelf. I’m pretty careful with it. It’s in great, sturdy shape, but I treat it like the artifact it is.
Forgive my messy work bench! Since the baby came home things have been......interesting.
Attachments
All true. I believe about 3-4000 of those exist on the registry in the US.
Separately I regularly shoot a Savage M1 Thompson (ww2) vintage. Runs like a champ gobbling up the 30rnd stick mags. I believe that the M1 and M1A1 are a little stronger in the rear receiver area. - a simpler, more robust design, but not nearly as collectable as the Colts.
I'd like to get a 21AC, but there around 50K+ right now.
Do you mean 3-4K Colts on the registry? I doubt it, but we will never know for sure. There are probably more M1/M1A1's registered than Colts. The guns in the FBI inventory are not on the registry as are many of the Colt's left in PD's and SO's, as they didn't do the '68 amnesty. They are there but you can't get them except as parts, if then. Many of the larger, and smaller departments were hit years ago by Roger Cox and some others and did make the registry if it was pre'68. The politics weren't as negative toward guns back then. Today there are a lot of departments with NFA that are transferable but they will never see public hands due to politics. I know of one specifically that has $100 of thousands of transferable HK's, UZI's, MAC's, M16's, etc and they won't be sold/traded because of politics.
I had a small PD once tell me "you want this junk?" Yup, 38/42, MP40, ......
My Colt 1928 Navy came out of a S Texas SO that was logged into the jail record book in 1938 by the Sheriff. For some reason they used the jail record book inside cover and first page(s) to log new or confiscated guns. They were smart enough to register all their NFA in the amnesty. Was a good read to see the Colt/S&W revolvers, Winchesters, etc on the logs.
I had a small PD once tell me "you want this junk?" Yup, 38/42, MP40, ......
My Colt 1928 Navy came out of a S Texas SO that was logged into the jail record book in 1938 by the Sheriff. For some reason they used the jail record book inside cover and first page(s) to log new or confiscated guns. They were smart enough to register all their NFA in the amnesty. Was a good read to see the Colt/S&W revolvers, Winchesters, etc on the logs.
Colt made about 15,000 Thompsons, 21's and 28's overstamps, and Auto Ordnance made a whopping 1.75million (1.25 of those stamped s- Savage) during 1940-44 . Most at Utica plant according to my book. I have a 21/28 Navy awaiting approval, hopefully by month's end. Those are tax records on the Colt's, I'd hope 1/4 ore on the registry, we'll likely never know.
Well you can write off about 4,000 that went to France and England (these were the last of the original 15,000 guns), 300? that went to Nicaragua with the USMC, 650 slated for the IRA but 500 were seized by J Edger himself (not sure after seizure what happened to the 500), many others smuggled to the IRA, guns bought by USPS, USCG, the guns in FBI inventory. That doesn't leave many sold in the hardware stores or that came out of PD's. I believe some Colt guns even went to China, not sure of the number.
Many years ago a Thompson came up for sale that was a copy made in China in the 1030's if I remember the story.
And then there is the 100's of thousands M1/M1A1's. Some of those guns made their way to PD/SO's around the country after the war.
Congratulations on your Colt Navy. Buy a military '28 parts kit and use those parts of you are going to shoot it, including the wood. Shoot quality ammo, original Colt barrels are unobtainable.
Many years ago a Thompson came up for sale that was a copy made in China in the 1030's if I remember the story.
And then there is the 100's of thousands M1/M1A1's. Some of those guns made their way to PD/SO's around the country after the war.
Congratulations on your Colt Navy. Buy a military '28 parts kit and use those parts of you are going to shoot it, including the wood. Shoot quality ammo, original Colt barrels are unobtainable.
That's the plan on the parts kit., pull the originals. I have a richardson barrel removal tool, looking for an actuator.
One in not as good shape at Morphy's Auction in November brought 3690.00 for the case only.
Second down on the right was what I carried into Grenada. I could not think of a worse weapon for the kind of conflict we encountered down there. I was carrying it for CQB. However, there was literally none of that. For building clearing, I far and away preferred a 1911. Much more manouverable in close quarters. At the time, (1980's) everybody was trying to copy the Brits in their raid on the Iranian Embassy (1980). The problem with the MP-5 was it's very limited range. And, just because the bullet is slower doesn't mean you aren't going to have over-penetration. Thus why later, most Spec-Op personnel carried a CAR-15 or M4. Better of both worlds, for a carbine/SMG.
P.S. we had no optic on ours, just the rotary elevation rear sight. Which I was not too familiar with.
Added: The rear sight is adjusted by lifting and turning to the desired range. It is calibrated to supersonic MP ammo. The sight used on that pictured 2nd down on the right(MP-5SD) is the same used on all MP-5's. H&K just figured you wouldn't need it for long range. Because, in CQB you don't really use the sights, you just 'lock up' with the weapon with sights as a reference, not true aiming tools.
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The one with no right slide markings was one of the five submittals to win the contract, John Deere skid tape as applied originally on (two?) of the 5.
Second gun without the “SRP” on right slide was one of the first 25 sent to FBI, third pistol a “CRG” used for official duty.
Baer was apparently messing with the initial contact, not feeling the need to send the guns to Walter for black-T application per the contract, instead saving money by putting his own coating on and then sending them off to Quantico, issues arose (Walter Sr would talk one’s ear off about this issue and his feelings regarding it all). There also were magazine functioning issues etc …and the rest is history.
Baer apparently used residual parts after dissolution of contract to sell to the public remaining SRPs, these instead with MMC rears and Baer coat finish. Interesting evolution to be sure.
Second gun without the “SRP” on right slide was one of the first 25 sent to FBI, third pistol a “CRG” used for official duty.
Baer was apparently messing with the initial contact, not feeling the need to send the guns to Walter for black-T application per the contract, instead saving money by putting his own coating on and then sending them off to Quantico, issues arose (Walter Sr would talk one’s ear off about this issue and his feelings regarding it all). There also were magazine functioning issues etc …and the rest is history.
Baer apparently used residual parts after dissolution of contract to sell to the public remaining SRPs, these instead with MMC rears and Baer coat finish. Interesting evolution to be sure.
Hey, do they still have examples of the .30 Remington Model 81 and .351 Winchester '07 Self Loading rifles displayed in the gun cleaning room?
Hahaha, great question! I got this gun this week and was told, “I’ll try to get you a holster next time I order some.”
I’m still carrying a leather Don Hume I was issued at the Academy over a decade ago. The new guys coming from the Academy are rolling in with some kind of thumb-release plastic holster. Honestly not sure what it is.
It’s the same retention setup, but is specific to the 19M with a TLR7, I think.
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