Yes. Initially the 9mm SF (Single Fire). Later a 10mm version with with two shot burst and a LSBHO. (Last Shot Bolt Hold-Open)
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FBI Sniper Rifles
- Thread starter Toftwo
- Start date
A buddy of mine (the meme generator) and I were taking about this recently and we couldn’t agree more.
I was teaching at the sniper schools when the fella you mention came to the program as the replacement for M.M. We already had the new disaster of the rifle. That’s one thing I will give C.G., he did inherit that steaming pile of a rifle.
But, when it came to addressing all the problems the rifle had, the solutions were asinine.
- bipod studs failing to stay anchored in the chassis didn’t result in new picatinney mount bipods, it resulted in custom designed/machined picatinney rails with captured studs to continue with the Harris.
- LOP adjustment for big guys resulted in, again custom made, spacers between the chassis and buttstock which were not user serviceable, instead of just adding threat to the adjustable butt.
- months of trial/error/development for the Geissele trigger (which is super nice) to circumvent BRF’s inflexibility with regard to a new trigger shoe from HS Precision in order to accommodate the dismal ergonomics of the pistol grip location on the shit chassis.
- hundreds of Pig Saddles needing bubba-gunsmith if to clamp on to the skinny little chassis when Arca rails are taking over the world.
- hand-filed, modified M-Lok flush cups screwed to the side of the Badger EFR rail because the chassis didn’t have a sling attachment point up front.
- glass blasting the cerakote out of the mating surfaces of the chassis due to zero shift, ultimately resulting in bedding all the guns. (Notice the chassis theme here?)
Hell, @Wheres-Waldo was hand-lapping barrels at one point trying to get them to shoot…
Daniel Defense new 20" bolt rifle....
APD'S new sniper rifle. Not fully kitted out yet, top rail and front lower plate...
This is a working option for any department. Only bad is the horrible muzzle brake blowing... they need cans..
Never fondled a seekins or that Tikka. So...
DD felt good, looked good, & shot damn good. Guys weren't joyful about the single stage trigger, but qualified with no problem.
Was their first day out with them. And been on two stage triggers all their careers.
Time will tell.
DD felt good, looked good, & shot damn good. Guys weren't joyful about the single stage trigger, but qualified with no problem.
Was their first day out with them. And been on two stage triggers all their careers.
Time will tell.
DD does a helluva job with their CHF barrels. Some of the best shooting hammer forged AR barrels on the market, hands down.
I had a Rem 700 VSF in 22-250 that was built identically to that about 15yrs ago. Blued fluted barrel and all.
Would drill gophers out of my neighbors pasture at 300yds like it was nothing using Winchester 45gr JHP's.
Would drill gophers out of my neighbors pasture at 300yds like it was nothing using Winchester 45gr JHP's.
That's how the FBI version looked when they got HS
Assuming you’re asking about M4’s, they’re mostly Colt’s or Rock River, I think.
My first SWAT gun was a General Motors lower.
Of the Colt’s, I’ve seen AR-15, M16, M16A1, M4, M4A1, plenty of the newer LE-prefix serials, etc.
What manufacturer is that? So does the team @ Huntsville do the barrel swaps or do you have local armorers in the field offices?
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I’m not sure what it is. I posted that picture somewhere else on the Hide and was told it was Adams Arms, I believe. There are two different contours of those barrels, too.
The guns are either retrofitted/rebuilt in the field by a “traveling road show” of armorers from Quantico [maybe H’ville now) or they’re shipped back/forth for the work. No wpns maintenance, other than user-level cleaning, takes place in the field.
I’ve been through the FBI’s M4 “armorers course” and am not allowed to change a pistol grip…. I’m a college edumacated, gun slinging, SWAT certified, Firearms/Tactical instructor, sniper extraordinaire that won’t be trusted to not lose a spring or detent.
Look back a couple pages at what @dirtybores posted. That upper with the Vortex LPVO is as close as we’ve gotten.
The FBI does not have an established “DMR” training or weapons program.
I pushed and poked what bears I could about a DMR setup. I have lots of opinions on how off and misguided the program and platform is...that don't belong in this section lol, but may have become memes 
Anyways some "accurized uppers" were in circulation. Some were an older type Skunk would know more about. Others were the Geissele I posted. An LPVO could be had either via the procurement website or the R10 program. I think a Vortex Gen 1 1-6 and a Nightforce option were on there. Hell some old Acogs were out there too. DRMO stuff snatched up when lots of PEQs, 14s, and PLRFs and such got pulled...or stolen straight off an R10 that was vault bound forever. Anyways, I was gone before the new duty ammo hit, but that woulda been a sweet combo. I could pass the sniper qual with an M4 and Aimpoint, so it coulda shoulda woulda had a useful place (for many more reasons). They could've even assigned some former hrt guy with no field swat relevance to run a training program on it! Missed opportunity all around.
Anyways some "accurized uppers" were in circulation. Some were an older type Skunk would know more about. Others were the Geissele I posted. An LPVO could be had either via the procurement website or the R10 program. I think a Vortex Gen 1 1-6 and a Nightforce option were on there. Hell some old Acogs were out there too. DRMO stuff snatched up when lots of PEQs, 14s, and PLRFs and such got pulled...or stolen straight off an R10 that was vault bound forever. Anyways, I was gone before the new duty ammo hit, but that woulda been a sweet combo. I could pass the sniper qual with an M4 and Aimpoint, so it coulda shoulda woulda had a useful place (for many more reasons). They could've even assigned some former hrt guy with no field swat relevance to run a training program on it! Missed opportunity all around.
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There were two "DMR" setups that I'm aware of, and are in use in the field.
First is a 14.5 Colt M4 Carbine Barrel with a Geissele rail (not sure which one, I think it was longer than the normal agent or SWAT handguards). These didn't really move the needle much in terms of delivering more kinetic energy or accuracy over the 11.5s.
Second was a really nice, 16" Geissele barrel, with a pretty thin profile, and a 14" Geissele rail. I'd be shocked if Skunk didn't have some to post pictures of. These would commonly have a Vortex 1-6, or Aimpoint + Magnifier on them. In practice they were intended for snipers, but I don't know how many guys actually carried these over entry carbines. I liked them for turret work where you might want more magnification, and might be further from a target. Some guys would build a whole gun out of these, some guys would just swap uppers.
The real crown jewel is the Geissele "Agent" rifle that was available for individual purchase. The ones I've seen shot really nice and it would be perfect for a DMR setup, especially as I think they eventually moved away from the carbine gas system on them. Of course in practice its such a pretty gun that I've never actually seen one out on an operation.
First is a 14.5 Colt M4 Carbine Barrel with a Geissele rail (not sure which one, I think it was longer than the normal agent or SWAT handguards). These didn't really move the needle much in terms of delivering more kinetic energy or accuracy over the 11.5s.
Second was a really nice, 16" Geissele barrel, with a pretty thin profile, and a 14" Geissele rail. I'd be shocked if Skunk didn't have some to post pictures of. These would commonly have a Vortex 1-6, or Aimpoint + Magnifier on them. In practice they were intended for snipers, but I don't know how many guys actually carried these over entry carbines. I liked them for turret work where you might want more magnification, and might be further from a target. Some guys would build a whole gun out of these, some guys would just swap uppers.
The real crown jewel is the Geissele "Agent" rifle that was available for individual purchase. The ones I've seen shot really nice and it would be perfect for a DMR setup, especially as I think they eventually moved away from the carbine gas system on them. Of course in practice its such a pretty gun that I've never actually seen one out on an operation.
Not to backtrack onto the MP5 topic but who can resist? I’m one of three guys on my team who still carry the MP5. This is despite the top-notch Geissele carbines and Trijicon optics for general issue. I became intrigued by the MP5 as a youngster when I saw the SAS at the Iranian Embassy Princess Gate siege. (Heck, who here didn’t?). I’m the only one with the MP5-N (Navy trigger group: 0/1/3/F) although I replaced the collapsible stock with a fixed. In my mind, it is still the pinnacle of entry guns. On the rare occasion I’m going through a door and not looking down the Delta-51 then I’m always carrying that.
Older post but I would trend towards the Seekins HAVAK HIT rifle (their heavier chassis gun, not the PH-2 hunting version) vs the DD or the Tikka for duty use.
HIT has a quick change barrel system similar to the AI, and $500 replacement shouldered barrels. This means every sniper with an allen wrench could swap barrels, no barrel vice or special armorer needed.
Seekins customer service and backend support is phenomenal as well, better than the other companies if there's an issue or parts are needed.
Quick change barrels system could even allow LE snipers to compete with a comp caliber on weekends (gasp) and swap back to their 16" 308 "duty" barrel for work on duty (with appropriate zero/readiness protocalls).
I may be a little biased towards Seekins as a I grew up in Idaho but their HIT seems to be 90% of an AI at 1/3 the cost. Hit up Not Right Shooters for Individual LE Pricing on Seekins. For department orders you might check with Seekins direct for discounts/ordering.
I agree Seekins has only seemed to get better and better especially over the last few years!
Didn't the SP10 get selected for SOCOM's MRGG @MSTN ? I've also read Geissele was selected tho?
US SOCOM Selects Geissele Automatics for MRGG-S
On 31 August, Bill Geissele announced that Geissele's submission to US SOCOM's MRGG-S (Mid-Range Gas Gun) program had been selected.
www.thefirearmblog.com
Any of yall gotten your hands on one of these Geissele large frames? Looks interesting.. but I've read some concerning stuff lately about Geissele's quality control....?? And IMO Seekins' upper receiver and barrel design is probably one of the best if not the best out of all current AR large frame designs...
The lead Tactical Section gunsmith is a friend of mine. I’ve asked him about barrels and he shrugs and says, “we use Colt’s and a couple others. There are only a few places making chrome lined barrels anyway; they’re all the same.”
He’s also told me there really isn’t a standard HRT gun. There are so few of those guys that Tactical Section builds them whatever gun the individual wants. There is no “HRT barrel.”
With that in mind, I think the 11.5” barrels are the same across the bureau…. i.e. one of several different manufacturers, one of two, maybe three different contours, etc. There isn’t a ”regular Agent barrel” or a “SWAT barrel” or “HRT barrel” like some claim.
For example, my SWAT upper was identical to my regular Agent upper except for the color of the hand guard.
The uppers are nothing special, really. The Geissele rail, flat top M4 receiver, barrel as mentioned, stainless Geissele block, standard mil-spec BCG, either Troy or MagPul iron sights, and either the Aimpoint or Sig red dot sight.
He’s also told me there really isn’t a standard HRT gun. There are so few of those guys that Tactical Section builds them whatever gun the individual wants. There is no “HRT barrel.”
With that in mind, I think the 11.5” barrels are the same across the bureau…. i.e. one of several different manufacturers, one of two, maybe three different contours, etc. There isn’t a ”regular Agent barrel” or a “SWAT barrel” or “HRT barrel” like some claim.
For example, my SWAT upper was identical to my regular Agent upper except for the color of the hand guard.
The uppers are nothing special, really. The Geissele rail, flat top M4 receiver, barrel as mentioned, stainless Geissele block, standard mil-spec BCG, either Troy or MagPul iron sights, and either the Aimpoint or Sig red dot sight.
We only have 9mm and our issue duty round is the 124gr +P by Ranger Winchester. Most of our pistols have been .45s until several months ago when 9mm sidearms finally got authorized so I have no idea how well the 124gr will perform for us. It seems to have a good track record elsewhere though. For training we just use Winchester white box.
Let’s get some more pics of that Blue Smear!!
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Sooooo....
After looking through today's average scopes, do you catch yourself looking through that 1" scope and think you're going blind?!!!.
Really nice rig.
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I only have two scopes above 12X (S&B 5-25 and Premier 8541a 3-15), so it’s not too shocking in the daytime. But, the FOV definitely reminds me how far optics have come.
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Bumping an old thread. We have been researching and are building FBI HRT rifles. We have had the 11.5" Carbing in a folding configuration for a few years. We are just releasing our "near-clone" HRT Sniper Rifle, which has all the FBI contract specs, but a swap of barrel and receiver (and thus we call it near clone), at an affordable price point. We found the accuracy in the barreled receivers from Remington with the heavy profile 5R match grade stainles barrels to sub-MOA and a lot of fun to shoot.
This project is a collaboration with Rob Snyder @RWSGunsmithing , and we are really excited about it. We should have decent turnaround time, and look forward to working with Rob on the FBI HRT Sniper Rifle. We had a great relationship with McMillan and Badger and Dan Ross, as we got the M40A3/A5 kit program started last year. We will have a more custom offering with Rob in the spring. We are still selecting barrels and actions.
This project is a collaboration with Rob Snyder @RWSGunsmithing , and we are really excited about it. We should have decent turnaround time, and look forward to working with Rob on the FBI HRT Sniper Rifle. We had a great relationship with McMillan and Badger and Dan Ross, as we got the M40A3/A5 kit program started last year. We will have a more custom offering with Rob in the spring. We are still selecting barrels and actions.
If anyone is interested in cloning an FBI sniper rifle, you can now order reproduction McMillan blue smear camo stock that's similar to what the FBI issued! Here's an example of their new reproduction blue camo that was recently available on McMillan's website (I don't know if this stock sold or not). I don't think that this type of stock was ever issued by the FBI in a smear camo pattern, I just wanted to show you guys what the new reproduction blue camo pattern looks like. So, call McMillan and get a new blue smear stock ordered for your next FBI clone build!
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Damn that's nice. Been seeking exactly that but for a Model 70. The listing states its a finish not available for custom order though.
Try calling McMillan and inquiring about custom ordering the blue smear pattern. I don't work for them, so I have no idea what they're doing, but they have stated that they're opening up orders for various smear camo patterns. I'll shoot them a call next week, and see if I can get any information about potentially custom ordering new reproduction smear stocks.
We had/have some A3 stocks (pictured), though I don’t know if they were early enough to be smear pattern.
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I am not aware of any A2s or A3s that were original smear.
IIRC, When Dick Davis helped y'all design the A2, they also rolled out the first Urban Camo gel coat like on your A3 above.
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I don’t know if you guys remember this gun. I’ve posted pics of it in here before, but the stock was spray painted and the metal was coated in a FDE color.
I cleaned the paint off and had the metal redone. It’s now Midnight Blue and the bolt is Sniper Grey. Looks mucho bettero (I’m not great at Spanish)!
Looks nearly black inside but the sunlight brings out some blue. It splits the difference between the colors of the stock really nicely.
Anyway, an original FBI A3 stock here….
I cleaned the paint off and had the metal redone. It’s now Midnight Blue and the bolt is Sniper Grey. Looks mucho bettero (I’m not great at Spanish)!
Looks nearly black inside but the sunlight brings out some blue. It splits the difference between the colors of the stock really nicely.
Anyway, an original FBI A3 stock here….
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Out of curiosity, did they run an A3 type scope rail after the Unertl or did they go to a Redfield?
So, this rifle is “my wife’s” 6.5 Creedmoor. It’s built on an action I used to have built into a M40A1. It’s not close or intended to be a FBI clone of any sort.
