Range Report Federal gold medal 185gr Berger

[The Angler]

Anyone shot these yet?

Thoughts?

I have a 1:10(20")and a 1:11.25 (24") will these rates work for this bullet( GM308BH185 )

Thanks


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[IanHusaberg]

Interested? is this 308 or 300 win mag. I have both now. just bought some 185 berger juggernauts. for my mp 10 18" and savage fcp-sr-10 24". also have A 20" win mag. I'd like to hear how this factory ammo works?

 

[The Angler]

Interested? is this 308 or 300 win mag. I have both now. just bought some 185 berger juggernauts. for my mp 10 18" and savage fcp-sr-10 24". also have A 20" win mag. I'd like to hear how this factory ammo works?

It's a .308 cartridge using 185gr match juggernaut target bullets.

-2600 fps
-2777 muzzle energy
- .552 BC


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[IanHusaberg]

I'll have to pick some up. The Sierra match king is a Tire old bullet design IMHO.

 

[The Angler]

I love the SMK's , but I'd like to see how these stack up at 1000.

Found them on midway


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[Kopfjager1]

I'm interested as well. Probably make the switch completely to 185 gr Juggernauts.

 

[tnichols]

Very interested as well. As a long time SMK user, I agree that they've become a bit antiquated. However, they tend to run in just about everything you put them in with very little fuss. If I can maintain an equivalent level of accuracy without a bunch of seating depth monkey business AND gain in BC, I'm in.

 

[tnichols]

I just ordered 2 boxes from Midway for testing. Should be able to report back next week with my findings.

 

[1J04]

I just ordered 2 boxes from Midway for testing. Should be able to report back next week with my findings.

Looking forward to this. Wanna let the cat outta the bag on your rifle specs you're gonna try these with?
I can see I'm gonna need a faster twist .308 but still very interested. Love that BC.

 

[tnichols]

Hopefully will be able to test some tomorrow. Will depend on when UPS gets here.

Rifle will be an 20" AIAE with its factory barrel (1:12 twist). Rifle is currently in the low 1300's for round count. Scope is a NF ATACR F1 5-25x56. I checked my 100 yd zero today and it was in the .3's which is where this system typically is with my 175 SMK handloads.

My concern, as always with factory ammo is that most rifles either love it, are ok with it, or hate it. With that being said, I'll give an objective test based on what my rig will do. YMMV. This system has been very much sub 1 MOA solid with several factory loads except one, that being the Black Hills offering with the tipped 175 MK. I suspect some fiddling with seating depth in a handload may have produced different results.

Have to admit, I'm a bit excited to test this stuff. I'll run it at 100, get a baseline, and then take it out to to distance.

 

[tnichols]

Just a quick preliminary report. UPS delivered with enough time to shoot a couple groups at 100 to establish a good zero. I'm pressed for time, so here are a few quick pics and thoughts.

The crash test dummy...
Shot 2 three shot groups at 100. For honesty sake, I absolutely tanked #2 in the first group, called it, and covered that mess up with a dime. Group 2 was solid. Conditions were noted on the data sheet. Mirage was terrible. Looked like I was shooting through flowing water. With cloud cover I could possibly tighten those up a little. Both though we're in the .3's which is common for this rig.
I feel this quick outing is promising in my rig. I've made the appropriate adjustments for zero and will take them out to distance hopefully Sunday afternoon.

I'll pass along more details and information (measurements) as time allows. Unfortunately, I have a very busy weekend ahead so I'll do my best with the time I have.

 

[The Angler]

Thank you!! Looking forward to the results. Let's hope for no wind on range day.

Nice system you got there


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[tnichols]

There is ALWAYS wind here That's ok though, see if they run better than the 175's out in the breeze.

 

[tnichols]

Another quick report. My Sunday commitments allowed just a snibit of time to get this offering beyond 100. Loaded the 185 Jugg numbers into Ballistic AE along with my rifle and zero data. For those that are trying these for the first time, a quick google search gave me a projectile length of 1.353". I took a WAG at the MV and used 2575 fps knowing that at 655 I'd be on steel with that number and true from there. Federal's numbers from the box are shown. I looked quick but didn't see their barrel length, but I'm guessing a 24".




Conditions shown on data sheet. Easy 11 o'clock wind at 10mph. As per the target pic, there was some vertical (could have been me), but measured the 3 on the water line and trued at 2535 fps





Shot 3 more at a 10" plate to the left of target in pic with new come up based on the trued MV. Did have a miss (shot #6), just off the right edge. Other 2 centered up nicely.

Some quick notes/thoughts. Recoil impulse was just a touch more than my standard 175 SMK load doing 2590 fps. Primers were a bit flat, but bolt lift was "normal". Under today's conditions, the 185 Jugg would go transonic at 1120 yards, my 175 SMK load, transonic at 994 yards.

I plan plan on taking these on out to 1K soon as time allows. Should be able to test more this Tuesday, but "wind" is in the forecast, and in our neck of the woods means 20-30 mph, not the best, but we'll wait and see. Hopefully between now and then I'll pull a bullet and get some measurement data for you guys.

 

[tnichols]

Today's data sheet.

 

[Bull81]

Tag

 

[1J04]

Very promising. My 1:11.25 oughtta eat'm just fine. Looking forward to 1k. Thx again and good shooting

 

[tnichols]

On the road today. Still wicked wind at home. Hope to run these again tomorrow.

I think an optimal set up for these would be a 24" 1:12 twist. The barrel length will get you the speed and the higher BC vs the 175 SMK will yield a flatter trajectory and less drift. My 20" is giving up a fair amount of MV up front, which sucks.

 

[The Angler]

That's some serious wind. The forecast isn't looking too great for my range day either.. Appreciate the report.


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[tnichols]

I'm going to give it a good ol' college try tomorrow, but the local news just forecasted northwesterly winds tomorrow at 20, gusts to 40 mph. Unfortunately, that's fairly typical for Iowa in the spring. It's also why I own a 260 . I'll keep you fellas updated.

 

[tnichols]

I shot at 1310 lcl today. Was 3/6 with a first round hit at 695 yards. Wind 12:30-1:30 at 28-29 mph, gusts to 40 mph. With a low hit percentage like that, I didn't go further out. I'm down to 19 rounds so I'll try again tomorrow with less wind. That kind of wind buffets the gun and shooter enough that being fair and objective is a stretch. I have a case of these on back order through Midway. Supposed be shipped a week from today.

 

[tnichols]

I did get out to a 1K this morning with the 185 Juggs. As always, I was a bit pressed for time. I put a few on steel at 765 to verify my MV, which slowed a bit more :-( , then went 3/4 at 1K. I was just off the left side on #1, then followed with 3 impacts. Target was a basic 18"x24" rectangle. With today's conditions, I was into the transonic at 1K, but not by much.

I haven't chronoed this load and may once I receive the case that I have on BO through Midway, hopefully next week. I'm seeing more vertical than I like at the "medium" ranges (600-800 yards) and am curious if there is a fair SD spread.

I did take some basic measurements of this offering last evening that I'll pass along when I have time.

I'm off work tomorrow, so hope to be able to work with them again without time constraints. In my humble opinion, I think this factory offering would be just fine for guys that don't reload, and, as I eluded to in a previous post, that are running a 24" + barrel to get the speed as a bonus.

More details to follow as time allows.

 

[Bull81]

Little off topic but I'm curious how the 185 juggernauts do out of a 1:12 twist barrel. I see a few post here were they're doing fine. Anybody had any trouble with stabilization out of a 1:12 twist .308? I have a FN SPR with a 24 inch 1:12 barrel. It was my first true precision rifle and I've had it close to 15 years, I've moved on to better longrange systems since but I've always had sentimental attachment to it and would like to breath some life back into the ole girl

 

[The Angler]

Good shootin' tnichols, appreciate the review. I think I may have to order a few boxes to try for myself.


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[tnichols]

Little off topic but I'm curious how the 185 juggernauts do out of a 1:12 twist barrel. I see a few post here were they're doing fine. Anybody had any trouble with stabilization out of a 1:12 twist .308? I have a FN SPR with a 24 inch 1:12 barrel. It was my first true precision rifle and I've had it close to 15 years, I've moved on to better longrange systems since but I've always had sentimental attachment to it and would like to breath some life back into the ole girl

I thought about going to the reloading section, and seeing what guys are running for this bullet in handloads. I was interested in the FGMM load as I load 308 and 260 and typically don't have a lot of time for either. Always in search of a factory offering that shoots as good as my stuff which free's up more time for shooting. My 20" barrel is a 1:12 and the impacts on steel didn't indicate that they weren't stable from what I could tell.

I think this load would do great in a higher DA environment. At 850' MSL in cold, dense air, 1K is a stretch for the MV that I'm truing at. Just my opinion, I'm wrong a lot.

 

[tnichols]

Good shootin' tnichols, appreciate the review. I think I may have to order a few boxes to try for myself.


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Thanks. I wasn't real happy with my hits today, but running this load is still new and I'm enjoying the adventure. I'll press on and see if it's worth the effort. I wish I had that case on hand where I could run them day in, day out. Hopefully should see them next week.

 

[Bull81]

I thought about going to the reloading section, and seeing what guys are running for this bullet in handloads. I was interested in the FGMM load as I load 308 and 260 and typically don't have a lot of time for either. Always in search of a factory offering that shoots as good as my stuff which free's up more time for shooting. My 20" barrel is a 1:12 and the impacts on steel didn't indicate that they weren't stable from what I could tell.

I think this load would do great in a higher DA environment. At 850' MSL in cold, dense air, 1K is a stretch for the MV that I'm truing at. Just my opinion, I'm wrong a lot.

Thanks for the reply I may pick up a box and see how they do before picking up any to reload. I've been back and forth for a couple years about rebarreling that FN in one of the 6.5 or 6mm variants but at the same time hate to not have a .308 in the safe.

 

[390fe]

I would be really grateful if someone could give me the base to ogive length on one of these Federal Premium Gold Medal Berger Juggernaut rounds.

 

[OutlawTen5]

Any leads on who may have them in stock ready to ship?

 

[tnichols]

I would be really grateful if someone could give me the base to ogive length on one of these Federal Premium Gold Medal Berger Juggernaut rounds.

Sorry, I just checked in, but it's late. I have that information that I will post tomorrow. I bought a case of this stuff and have been shooting it day in, day out, at distance. Interest in this thread waned, so I didn't do any follow up.

 

[tnichols]

Any leads on who may have them in stock ready to ship?

I purchased through Midway a couple of months ago.

 

[OutlawTen5]

I purchased through Midway a couple of months ago.

Thank you

 

[tnichols]

Ok gentleman, I just have a minute, but here are the measurements: COL 2.795 - 2.802 This is grabbing 10 rounds at random, all out of the same lot. Base to ogive measurement: 2.150 - 2.157

Just for fun, here are the chrono numbers:

1. 2523
2. 2551
3. 2540
4. 2541
5. 2543

AV = 2539
ES = 28
SD = 9

Altitude : 852' MSL
Temp : 70 degrees F
BP : 29.94
Rifle : 20" AIAE 308 NF ATACR 5-25 F1

More later.

 

[1J04]

Ok gentleman, I just have a minute, but here are the measurements: COL 2.795 - 2.802 This is grabbing 10 rounds at random, all out of the same lot. Base to ogive measurement: 2.150 - 2.157

Just for fun, here are the chrono numbers:

1. 2523
2. 2551
3. 2540
4. 2541
5. 2543

AV = 2539
ES = 28
SD = 9

Altitude : 852' MSL
Temp : 70 degrees F
BP : 29.94
Rifle : 20" AIAE 308 NF ATACR 5-25 F1

More later.

Great info. Thx for the numbers T. Don't give up on the thread please. My bad for not getting back to this.

 

[Pusher591]

Ok gentleman, I just have a minute, but here are the measurements: COL 2.795 - 2.802 This is grabbing 10 rounds at random, all out of the same lot. Base to ogive measurement: 2.150 - 2.157

Just for fun, here are the chrono numbers:

1. 2523
2. 2551
3. 2540
4. 2541
5. 2543

AV = 2539
ES = 28
SD = 9

Altitude : 852' MSL
Temp : 70 degrees F
BP : 29.94
Rifle : 20" AIAE 308 NF ATACR 5-25 F1

More later.

Those aren't bad numbers at all, especially out of a 20" barrel. Very acceptable es/sd too.

 

[tnichols]

Agreed, BUT, I only shot 5 across the clocks. If you look at 1 & 2, that is a pretty good spread in MV. I do see a little more vertical at distance (650-1K) than I would like. Nit picking, I know. I periodically check 100 yd zero on all my rigs, and this is the BEST factory offering I've seen for MY rig. Very consistent in the .2's and .3's.

Beside the vertical spread, the only thing I've noticed is a bit more recoil than a 175 SMK that I handload. The Jugg certainly has a slight advantage out in the wind, which we have here. First round hit percentage is slightly better over the the SMK.

As I have eluded to in previous posts, I believe this offering would really shine at higher DA's with 24"+ barrels. This load is truing in my rig at 2494 fos. YMMV.

 

[LSUbeatUby40]

Little off topic but I'm curious how the 185 juggernauts do out of a 1:12 twist barrel.

I shot ABM 185 Juggernauts out of an M40A! (1/12 twist) with absolutely no problem. I think the 12 is fine for them.

 

[tnichols]

Agreed. I beleive my 20" is a 1:12 as well and showed no sign of instability on target even at a relatively low MV.

 

[Mike402]

I thought about going to the reloading section, and seeing what guys are running for this bullet in handloads. I was interested in the FGMM load as I load 308 and 260 and typically don't have a lot of time for either. Always in search of a factory offering that shoots as good as my stuff which free's up more time for shooting. My 20" barrel is a 1:12 and the impacts on steel didn't indicate that they weren't stable from what I could tell.

I think this load would do great in a higher DA environment. At 850' MSL in cold, dense air, 1K is a stretch for the MV that I'm truing at. Just my opinion, I'm wrong a lot.

Just as a data point, my old Juggernaut load was 42.4gr of Varget in a Lapua case, 2.920 COAL. Got me 2680 out of 26' 10 twist barrel. Fairly mild load at 61k psi, but most accurate and consistent with ES/SD. I moved on to the 185 Hybrids, as they proved more accurate in my gun & better BC.

This was my last 5 outings with the Juggernauts:

Brass		Powder		Grains		Bullet		Primers		OAL		Yards		Group 1		Group 2		Avg		MOA			V Avg		ES		SD
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		100		0.38				0.38		0.38			2680		8		4
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		300		1.05				1.05		0.35
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		100		0.50		0.53		0.52		0.52			2681		10		3.8
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		300		1.02		1.40		1.21		0.40
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		100		0.35		0.45		0.40		0.40

So the overall average was .41 moa with single digit SDs

 

[tnichols]

Just as a data point, my old Juggernaut load was 42.4gr of Varget in a Lapua case, 2.920 COAL. Got me 2680 out of 26' 10 twist barrel. Fairly mild load at 61k psi, but most accurate and consistent with ES/SD. I moved on to the 185 Hybrids, as they proved more accurate in my gun & better BC.

This was my last 5 outings with the Juggernauts:

Brass		Powder		Grains		Bullet		Primers		OAL		Yards		Group 1		Group 2		Avg		MOA			V Avg		ES		SD
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		100		0.38				0.38		0.38			2680		8		4
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		300		1.05				1.05		0.35
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		100		0.50		0.53		0.52		0.52			2681		10		3.8
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		300		1.02		1.40		1.21		0.40
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		100		0.35		0.45		0.40		0.40

So the overall average was .41 moa with single digit SDs

Those are great numbers. This bullet should shine at that MV! Can you stuff those in a mag at that OL, or are you single feeding them?

 

[Mike402]

Those are great numbers. This bullet should shine at that MV! Can you stuff those in a mag at that OL, or are you single feeding them?

I had AI mags modded to accept a 2.950 OAL, and then had Short Action Customs chamber a new barrel in .308 based on the Juggernaut bullet at that length, with a little room to account for throat wear.

When I moved over to the Hybrids, best accuracy came at a longer OAL. I cut it off at 2.945 to still mag feed em. Problem is that they are not that consistent in length, and had to check OAL in addition to distance to lands, and trim long ones (pain in the ass, but I've been told that is what Federal does to their FGMM to fit magazine length). One disadvantage of having a chamber cut for one particular bullet. Might limit you in the future with other bullets.

 

[kujuak]

Just as a data point, my old Juggernaut load was 42.4gr of Varget in a Lapua case, 2.920 COAL. Got me 2680 out of 26' 10 twist barrel. Fairly mild load at 61k psi, but most accurate and consistent with ES/SD. I moved on to the 185 Hybrids, as they proved more accurate in my gun & better BC.

This was my last 5 outings with the Juggernauts:

Brass		Powder		Grains		Bullet		Primers		OAL		Yards		Group 1		Group 2		Avg		MOA			V Avg		ES		SD
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		100		0.38				0.38		0.38			2680		8		4
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		300		1.05				1.05		0.35
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		100		0.50		0.53		0.52		0.52			2681		10		3.8
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		300		1.02		1.40		1.21		0.40
Lapua 6x		Varget		42.4		Juggernaut		FGMM		2.920		100		0.35		0.45		0.40		0.40

So the overall average was .41 moa with single digit SDs

Please educate me. I am running the following load out of my AI/AT, stock 1:12 twist factory 26" barrel. Varget 43.9gr, CCI Bench rest primer, Lapua brass.Altitude 1206, most recently (yesterday) at 57 degrees f. Average velocity 2609. Slow barrel? Fast barrel ( yours) 1:10 vs 1:12 twist difference??

 

[Mike402]

Please educate me. I am running the following load out of my AI/AT, stock 1:12 twist factory 26" barrel. Varget 43.9gr, CCI Bench rest primer, Lapua brass.Altitude 1206, most recently (yesterday) at 57 degrees f. Average velocity 2609. Slow barrel? Fast barrel ( yours) 1:10 vs 1:12 twist difference??

Good question. Might be due to the temps and/or altitude. Here are the dates, temps, and Density Altitudes of those outings: (I log everything in excel each time I go out shooting)

7/17/2016		92		3000
7/19/2016		90		2964
7/30/2016		100		3850
7/31/2016		95		3150
7/31/2016		95		3150

When I plug in 57 degrees in my AB with my calculated MV variation, I get 2644, so a bit closer.

The puzzling thing is I would have assumed the 1:12 twist would be faster, on top of you having 1.5gr more powder. What is your OAL?

 

[kujuak]

OAL is 2.85 for my loads, getting Sd of 10 to 11.2
Thanks for the reply.

 

[Jon Rinaldi]

Shot 5 rds yesterday at 100 yards using a custom 700 sps with a 22" rock creek barrel and suppressor . 90 degrees 150 alititude 85% humidity and shot 1 " groups could be better for sure espcially with handloads but not a bad bullet would like test further but Ill probably try handloading them.

 

[.30kal]

I got an average of 2525 FPS (altitude of 540 ft, 62% humidity), with an 8.6 SD and 25 FPS ES from 10 rounds filed through my Rem LTR (1-12" twist). No signs of tumbling and got a few .6 to .7 MOA groups, along with some not so great 1+ MOA groups. Not as consistent accuracy-wise as 175 SMK Fed Gold Medal through this rifle (~ .5 MOA, but the increased BC get these out to 1140 yds before going trans-sonic, where M118 LR for me only goes to 975 yds before trans-sonic. Assuming these keep stable out to 1000 yrds, I'll probably work up some hand loads based on the 185s.

 

[JTCWCES]

Any leads on who may have them in stock ready to ship?

Targetsportsusa.com had them and the 175 fgmm on Monday

 

[TheOE800]

Midway has 185gr Berger: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...in-berger-juggernaut-open-tip-match-box-of-20

 

[Pusher591]

I got an average of 2525 FPS (altitude of 540 ft, 62% humidity), with an 8.6 SD and 25 FPS ES from 10 rounds filed through my Rem LTR (1-12" twist). No signs of tumbling and got a few .6 to .7 MOA groups, along with some not so great 1+ MOA groups. Not as consistent accuracy-wise as 175 SMK Fed Gold Medal through this rifle (~ .5 MOA, but the increased BC get these out to 1140 yds before going trans-sonic, where M118 LR for me only goes to 975 yds before trans-sonic. Assuming these keep stable out to 1000 yrds, I'll probably work up some hand loads based on the 185s.

Wondering is it due to the lower velocity and 1-12 is why some groups are decent and others are 1 Moa plus. Possibly on the brink of stability in that particular combo?

 

[Tempest 455]

I used a 185 Jugg with a 1-12 twist for a couple years in FTR. Had to run them 2700-2725 (depending on temp) for best accuracy in my gun with a 1-12.

However, every gun (and barrel) is different.