Fertilizer shortage

[fanninland]

Yeah. But 5gpa or 60gpa ?

This is wheat for grazing, not wheat for harvest. Scaled rate back to 150 lb/acre so about 13 gpa. My fertilizer guy told me the big crop farmers are loading up despite the high input costs as current commodity prices will support it. We mostly run cattle & grow coastal Bermuda hay so next summer is when I’ll really feel the sting. Horse people probably going to see a jump in hay prices….in the end seems everything is affected and nothing escapes the price hit.

 

[deersniper]

Horse people probably going to see a jump in hay prices…

I doubt it. Too many hobbiests spending their days job money to make hay and they don’t know their cost of production.

Equipment / parts way up
N tripled
Fuel almost tripled
Twine doubled
Labor almost doubled if you can find it.

And hay will stay close to the same price

 

[BAMAboy18]

So, other than cotton and peanuts being rotated annually, about every 4-5 miles I see the farmers will have several large chicken houses, floors lined with peanut hulls. Besides eggs, guess what thousands of chickens produce??
But yeah, there are supply issues, I truly believe by design. FDR started this ride rolling, it finally got momentum these last 20-30 years. Trump, not unlike Atlas, in an altruistic attempt, hurled himself in front of it and only turned himself into a speed-bump. I fear were all on this wagon ride till the wheels fall off...

 

[sirhrmechanic]

An off the wall question for our large farmers…

If you are using “smart farming” techniques where fertilizer, and density of crop and all kinds of other micro-factors are being calculated and then applied to fields, etc using GPS and satellite data and moisture data, etc…. I don’t know all the factors. But From what I can gather, it is both very data driven and very effective at raising yields and minimizing overuse of everything from fertilizer to pesticides…

So who owns the data for your farm? Do you? Is all the high-tech data yours and kept on servers or part of your own property records? Is it the property of the data companies or GPS companies… or fertilizer makers or Tractor companies? Does it live in their HQ? Or your farm.

I am curious because it seems to me that while self-driving cars are amusing and keep running down pedestrians and nuns… self-operating grain planting and harvesting would be rather simple. And for 20 years, the data making it possible has been gathered and stored.

Is the data like the software in some new tractors… “sorry, you bought a tractor, we own the control software and all the components that make it run.” I think there is a lawsuit on that. Is farm data owned by the farm and farmer? Or by Google and Microsoft and John Deere?

One argument against “elites” taking over farms is “who will run them?” Well in 1938, John Steinbeck showed how they got run post Mule… in his chapter about the “Cats.” Does history repeat when the Deere’s become self-driving? The Grapes of Wrath remains my favorite book, BTW. Everyone here should read it. Again.

Anyway, high tech farming has massively changed the productivity game. But could also have the effect of being the seeds of destruction for humans in farming. At a large scale anyway. The “they need us” argument is great until machinists get replaced by CNC, auto assemblers are replaced with robot arms, waiters are replaced by Kiosks… and pilots get replaced by drones. It’s not coming. It’s been here for 45 years.

It also begs the question… what can anyone do about it? Self-sufficiency is small scale and labor intensive. Big farms are equipment and, therefore, cash intensive. Call in the loans or have John Deere or Google “embargo” your farm data and crashing yields (aka profits and ability to service loans) and it creates problems as bad as Steinbeck documented… though admittedly, there are fewer families for the banks to care about now.

So what to do? Save your own data? Can you get access to it and dump it? Or save it locally? Does it even matter?

Curious because this obviously is a much more critical topic than looted Nordstrom’s. Those are distractions. This stuff is truly existential level discussion material. Largely because (and I’ve been saying this 30 years) the vaunted information economy or entertainment business or service economy is bullshit. It’s a fallacy. It’s two tribes on an island making money by doing each other’s laundry. It doesn’t work.

The only economic basis is turning raw materials and making finished products. Nothing is more basic to that than “dirt professions.” Mining and agriculture (food, lumber, fish) being the greatest value add professions and the foundation of any economy. You can’t outsource it and think trading paper or making movies will replace it.

If large scale agriculture can be taken over, it can be used to wipe out much of the human race in months. And I have heard that is a goal of some of the more radical “Gaia” worshippers.

Enough doom for Thanksgiving. But remember where everything on your table came from. “Thank you for your service” should be for farmers, too.

Sirhr

 

[deersniper]

against “elites” taking over farms

The ROI is so low only farmers are dumb enough to have all that capital tied up so they can work 80-100 hours and get a half a percent return.

Livestock is much more consolidated but they still have dumb farmers to the hands on work while big business like Purdue provides the birds and feed. Farmer provides the new barn and all labor and has to find a home for the manure. Once the lease is up and the new barn is almost paid for , the new lease requires a new updated barn.

 

[BAMAboy18]

The “they need us” argument is great until machinists get replaced by CNC, auto assemblers are replaced with robot arms, waiters are replaced by Kiosks… and pilots get replaced by drones. It’s not coming. It’s been here for 45 years

Someone has fix CNC machines & robots on site. I do...

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Someone has fix CNC machines & robots on site. I do...

Absolutely… and you have an awesome job doing a great service and providing for your family.

But there is one of you and used to be 45 machinists.

Now my comparison is not fair. Because there is now a whole robot industry. A CNC software industry. And we have gone from simple manual 3-axis machining to 7-axis Multus machines in the same 40 years and revolutionized machining.

It shows that change is hard and there are have’s and have nots in the process. That is progress, but it has a cost. That “progress” was also market-driven. Not politically-driven.

What happens when the process of Have’s and Have nots is driven by ideology or geography or skin color or whether you are part of Skull and Bones or knock the right ring.

You benefitted from a capitalistic technology finding a need and a reshuffling of jobs and skills dictated by a free market.

Today, there is enough money and, James-bond-villain level crazies out there who want to stop market-driven progress in favor of “their” dictates of what progress should be. Their dictates are equality in outcomes. “Social Justice” BS. And saving their beloved GAIA, which does not need saving and the thought that Bill Gates or Greta can do it is the epitome of Narcissistic insane God-complex psychopathy. Because really what these loons want is the illusion that they have God-like power over it all. Aka Stalin and the bad-moustache Vienna House painter and Pol Pot and Jim Jones and all the other little genocide glitterati of the last century.

Anyway… I was going to leave a clip here from John Fords great movie version of Grapes of Wrath. But YouTube had nuked almost all the scenes from that movie. I wonder why? But read the book— all of you. Not directed at Bamaboy alone. Listen hard to the words of the Caterpiller Driver. And ask yourself “would this happen again?” Because you know the answer is… damn right.

Sirhr

 

[Bravo6niner]

An off the wall question for our large farmers…

If you are using “smart farming” techniques where fertilizer, and density of crop and all kinds of other micro-factors are being calculated and then applied to fields, etc using GPS and satellite data and moisture data, etc…. I don’t know all the factors. But From what I can gather, it is both very data driven and very effective at raising yields and minimizing overuse of everything from fertilizer to pesticides…

So who owns the data for your farm? Do you? Is all the high-tech data yours and kept on servers or part of your own property records? Is it the property of the data companies or GPS companies… or fertilizer makers or Tractor companies? Does it live in their HQ? Or your farm.

I am curious because it seems to me that while self-driving cars are amusing and keep running down pedestrians and nuns… self-operating grain planting and harvesting would be rather simple. And for 20 years, the data making it possible has been gathered and stored.

Is the data like the software in some new tractors… “sorry, you bought a tractor, we own the control software and all the components that make it run.” I think there is a lawsuit on that. Is farm data owned by the farm and farmer? Or by Google and Microsoft and John Deere?

One argument against “elites” taking over farms is “who will run them?” Well in 1938, John Steinbeck showed how they got run post Mule… in his chapter about the “Cats.” Does history repeat when the Deere’s become self-driving? The Grapes of Wrath remains my favorite book, BTW. Everyone here should read it. Again.

Anyway, high tech farming has massively changed the productivity game. But could also have the effect of being the seeds of destruction for humans in farming. At a large scale anyway. The “they need us” argument is great until machinists get replaced by CNC, auto assemblers are replaced with robot arms, waiters are replaced by Kiosks… and pilots get replaced by drones. It’s not coming. It’s been here for 45 years.

It also begs the question… what can anyone do about it? Self-sufficiency is small scale and labor intensive. Big farms are equipment and, therefore, cash intensive. Call in the loans or have John Deere or Google “embargo” your farm data and crashing yields (aka profits and ability to service loans) and it creates problems as bad as Steinbeck documented… though admittedly, there are fewer families for the banks to care about now.

So what to do? Save your own data? Can you get access to it and dump it? Or save it locally? Does it even matter?

Curious because this obviously is a much more critical topic than looted Nordstrom’s. Those are distractions. This stuff is truly existential level discussion material. Largely because (and I’ve been saying this 30 years) the vaunted information economy or entertainment business or service economy is bullshit. It’s a fallacy. It’s two tribes on an island making money by doing each other’s laundry. It doesn’t work.

The only economic basis is turning raw materials and making finished products. Nothing is more basic to that than “dirt professions.” Mining and agriculture (food, lumber, fish) being the greatest value add professions and the foundation of any economy. You can’t outsource it and think trading paper or making movies will replace it.

If large scale agriculture can be taken over, it can be used to wipe out much of the human race in months. And I have heard that is a goal of some of the more radical “Gaia” worshippers.

Enough doom for Thanksgiving. But remember where everything on your table came from. “Thank you for your service” should be for farmers, too.

Sirhr

I’ll try to answer some of these questions.

So in the beginning when we started with some of this we handled all our data on usb and privately own servers. As things progressed wireless data transfer to and from the equipment came along and was very convenient and beneficial. We dug our feet in on it at first but using something like John Deere Op Center really sped some of it up so we caved and started using it more and more but make sure we don’t check the boxes that share our data with John Deere. BUT we all know the data is getting used by the Bayer’s, John Deere’s, farm data management companies, etc. are using our data wether we shared it or not. I don’t think they are looking at individual farms yet per say but they look at it at a global level. Like how did this variety do, how much of this fertilizer did farmers use versus this other one. Or how did the actual yield coming from the combine compare to the satellite estimated yield data collected over the growing year compare (if they can more closely estimate yield ahead of time we could potentially loose volatility in the market during the growing year which we need to hedge a better price). Data privacy is a big pet peeve of mine as we use more and more tech driven tools on the farm. We need it to stay profitable and conserve resources but I worry long term how big tech will use it against us someday. Big ag tech is super hungry for our data and it’s a huge industry right now with ag tech start ups spending crazy money trying to gather it.
Rant over LOL

Autonomous equipment is coming but I only see it used for certain operations on a farm or feedlot for the next 5-10 years as there are a good amount of farming operations that still need the human eye to see problems currently happening. It’s something a few companies are working on but no widespread use yet.

Not sure I answered all your questions but try to answer a bit of it.

 

[skinney_7]

Don't have to be certified, just need it to grow.

It's not so much the price, but the availability. Can't shot what you can't buy.

Not true, you don't just start a certified organic farm, it takes years. Try it without the review process and have fun with the fines. Sure if your planning on self gardening, and canning your own food. I'm talking export and sales.

If the shortage of primers is what your concerned about, I'll give you a link and you can buy all that you'll ever need, but don't bitch to me about the price. LOL.

 

[Bravo6niner]

Not true, you don't just start a certified organic farm, it takes years. Try it without the review process and have fun with the fines. Sure if your planning on self gardening, and canning your own food. I'm talking export and sales.

If the shortage of primers is what your concerned about, I'll give you a link and you can buy all that you'll ever need, but don't bitch to me about the price. LOL.

@skinney_7 is right. I think a minimum of 3 years using certified organic practices before you can get actually certified.

 

[Maggot]

An off the wall question for our large farmers…

If you are using “smart farming” techniques where fertilizer, and density of crop and all kinds of other micro-factors are being calculated and then applied to fields, etc using GPS and satellite data and moisture data, etc…. I don’t know all the factors. But From what I can gather, it is both very data driven and very effective at raising yields and minimizing overuse of everything from fertilizer to pesticides…

So who owns the data for your farm? Do you? Is all the high-tech data yours and kept on servers or part of your own property records? Is it the property of the data companies or GPS companies… or fertilizer makers or Tractor companies? Does it live in their HQ? Or your farm.

I am curious because it seems to me that while self-driving cars are amusing and keep running down pedestrians and nuns… self-operating grain planting and harvesting would be rather simple. And for 20 years, the data making it possible has been gathered and stored.

Is the data like the software in some new tractors… “sorry, you bought a tractor, we own the control software and all the components that make it run.” I think there is a lawsuit on that. Is farm data owned by the farm and farmer? Or by Google and Microsoft and John Deere?

One argument against “elites” taking over farms is “who will run them?” Well in 1938, John Steinbeck showed how they got run post Mule… in his chapter about the “Cats.” Does history repeat when the Deere’s become self-driving? The Grapes of Wrath remains my favorite book, BTW. Everyone here should read it. Again.

Anyway, high tech farming has massively changed the productivity game. But could also have the effect of being the seeds of destruction for humans in farming. At a large scale anyway. The “they need us” argument is great until machinists get replaced by CNC, auto assemblers are replaced with robot arms, waiters are replaced by Kiosks… and pilots get replaced by drones. It’s not coming. It’s been here for 45 years.

It also begs the question… what can anyone do about it? Self-sufficiency is small scale and labor intensive. Big farms are equipment and, therefore, cash intensive. Call in the loans or have John Deere or Google “embargo” your farm data and crashing yields (aka profits and ability to service loans) and it creates problems as bad as Steinbeck documented… though admittedly, there are fewer families for the banks to care about now.

So what to do? Save your own data? Can you get access to it and dump it? Or save it locally? Does it even matter?

Curious because this obviously is a much more critical topic than looted Nordstrom’s. Those are distractions. This stuff is truly existential level discussion material. Largely because (and I’ve been saying this 30 years) the vaunted information economy or entertainment business or service economy is bullshit. It’s a fallacy. It’s two tribes on an island making money by doing each other’s laundry. It doesn’t work.

The only economic basis is turning raw materials and making finished products. Nothing is more basic to that than “dirt professions.” Mining and agriculture (food, lumber, fish) being the greatest value add professions and the foundation of any economy. You can’t outsource it and think trading paper or making movies will replace it.

If large scale agriculture can be taken over, it can be used to wipe out much of the human race in months. And I have heard that is a goal of some of the more radical “Gaia” worshippers.

Enough doom for Thanksgiving. But remember where everything on your table came from. “Thank you for your service” should be for farmers, too.

Sirhr

Only read The Grapes of Wrath if you want to be really depressed.

But yes it is a great read.

 

[Sgtsideways]

But if the fertilizer is not available (or too expensive...) the yields drop. You go back to crop rotation. Natural fertilizers... or planting clover or nitrogen-returning crops for one, two, three? season?

Which is probably going to be enough to feed America. Or at least rural America. But not the world.

We have 7 billion people on this planet because of the productivity of American farmland -- aka the ingenuity and the resourcefulness of the American farmer. Cut that short or price it out of reach and the world dies long before they can 'migrate' across our borders.

The world that we feed... hates us for it. Because you can forgive your oppressor, not your savior.

So if the goal of the elites is to create genocide, then you don't need viruses. Or gas chambers. Or boxcars. You just need to cut the American Farmer off at the knees. And the whole global nutrition tree collapses. In ONE season. 40 days later... the death count from starvation and disease is in the 9-figure range.

Let that sink in. No "Operation Restore Hope" No "Vittles drop." No Marines with sacks of wheat. Just death. In Africa and Asia and Southwest Asia at an epic level. Because there will be no food to give and it takes a minimum of a couple of years to kickstart the process again. And damn sure Kansas won't be letting truckloads of wheat go to Nigeria (or Los Angeles) when their neighbors need bread.

America can feed itself with one hand tied behind its back. We consume a fraction of the food we produce. Cut that off and we don't suffer. But billions die in weeks. TV worth watching, I suppose.

Sirhr

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the proposed changes in tax law will go a long way to destroying the family farm. There was talk that those proposals have been dropped, if not, look for gates and outfits like morningstar farms to swoop in and change our diet habits, in addition to buying more farm land .
gates really is an evil fellow.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

@skinney_7 is right. I think a minimum of 3 years using certified organic practices before you can get actually certified.

Yes, but as he pointed out... this is for 'sales and export' and to get your products on the shelf at the local Birkenstock-magnet market.

If your goal is to use non-purchased, non-chemical, non-ag-industries farming methods to farm... Today they call it subsistance farming... but it's not. It is small scale farming aka 1930's USA. Where we were still an agricultural powerhouse. Organic methods are superb for many of those farms. But are not going to feed Mumbai or 1.5 billion Chinese... or Africans.

They will feed a village or a county or a state. Certified? Ah... who will be around to certify anything if this future comes to pass anyway. They 'Certifiers' be fertilizer, food or indentured farm hands.

Sirhr

 

[krw]

The ROI is so low only farmers are dumb enough to have all that capital tied up so they can work 80-100 hours and get a half a percent return.

Livestock is much more consolidated but they still have dumb farmers to the hands on work while big business like Purdue provides the birds and feed. Farmer provides the new barn and all labor and has to find a home for the manure. Once the lease is up and the new barn is almost paid for , the new lease requires a new updated barn.

You are Fucking stupid and running your mouth on what you hear but dont know

 

[Codiekfx400]

Sirhrmechanic is a smart guy and I love reading his posts on this subject. I run a family farm in Illinois and love to read what everyones take is on farming. The big data is owned by the farmer. I truly believe that someone other than the farmer is analyzing the data. My platform is climate FieldView and all my data goes to the cloud. I am not sure how John Deere data is stored as I have been with FieldView since 2012.

 

[deersniper]

big data is owned by the farmer. I truly believe that someone other than the farmer is analyzing the data. My platform is climate FieldView and all my data goes to the cloud.

Lol you don’t think various companies are going through/analyzing everything on the cloud?

 

[Codiekfx400]

The ROI is so low only farmers are dumb enough to have all that capital tied up so they can work 80-100 hours and get a half a percent return.

Livestock is much more consolidated but they still have dumb farmers to the hands on work while big business like Purdue provides the birds and feed. Farmer provides the new barn and all labor and has to find a home for the manure. Once the lease is up and the new barn is almost paid for , the new lease requires a new updated barn.

I wouldn’t call farmers dumb by any means and the roi is better than half a percent. I farm because I can raise my family in a rural setting with Christian values. I love the outdoors and my job and I can make a better living than most people.

 

[deersniper]

You are Fucking stupid and running your mouth on what you hear but dont know

Lol tell me how I’m wrong.

 

[Codiekfx400]

Lol you don’t think various companies are going through/analyzing everything on the cloud?

Yes I do think my data is getting sold to third parties but I have no way to prove it.

 

[deersniper]

I wouldn’t call farmers dumb by any means and the roi is better than half a percent. I farm because I can raise my family in a rural setting with Christian values. I love the outdoors and my job and I can make a better living than most people.

I know.
But the capital investment v return, labor requirements ,future uncertainty etc keeps big business out.

 

[Codiekfx400]

Good let’s keep big business on the sidelines. I would rather work for myself than a big corporation.

 

[krw]

I am busy feeding cows and I still have chores to do in my 4 chicken houses. Will get back tonite

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I wouldn’t call farmers dumb by any means and the roi is better than half a percent. I farm because I can raise my family in a rural setting with Christian values. I love the outdoors and my job and I can make a better living than most people.

^^^ We have a saying up here in old New England...

"Old Farmer Smart"

Lots of book learning types should try and spend some time learning what that means.

I aspire to get there someday... Got the old down good. Got what sort of passes for a farm. But the last part... working on it every day. Maybe I'll get there before I'm staring at the lawn from the wrong side.

Farmers ain't dumb by any stretch. Well, except for a few of the hemp-addled former Woodstock state-subsidized shithole farms we see around where the animals are sick... the crops suck. Their 'income' is driving a smoking, rusted-out Volvo Wagon 30-miles to the Farmers Market 20 weekends a summer to sell 34 stalks of organic celery and some home-masticated Kale Chips. They're dumb.

Big farmers are a whole lot smarter than the whiney little MBA's who think they know everything.

Sirhr

 

[deersniper]

Good let’s keep big business on the sidelines.

Look what’s happened to livestock and dairy. The way things are going you have to have vertical integration and push local etc to make money.

Row crop will get there eventually. Crop insurance subsides etc arent fkr the farmer. They are to take the risk out so we can have mega farms that are easier for the statist/ totalitarians to control.




No one realizes what it takes to grow a crop or animal. Like Bloomberg said. You just place the seed in the dirt add water lol.

 

[lariat]

This is wheat for grazing, not wheat for harvest. Scaled rate back to 150 lb/acre so about 13 gpa. My fertilizer guy told me the big crop farmers are loading up despite the high input costs as current commodity prices will support it. We mostly run cattle & grow coastal Bermuda hay so next summer is when I’ll really feel the sting. Horse people probably going to see a jump in hay prices….in the end seems everything is affected and nothing escapes the price hit.

This. In spades. You got a horse? Get ready to trade your bank account for hay to feed your oversized pet.

We burn our coastal fields every so often for weed control instead of using 2-4D, and once you get the weeds out you can back way off of that. But not the fertilizer. Hay production is hard on the land. It essentially turns your fields into a mineral mining operation and the results are much like reusing a tea bag. There is NO WAY I’m making quality hay and selling it at a discount this year. I’ll feed it to my own animals and still be money ahead. I keep two years back for me anyway, so another year won’t hurt.

 

[deersniper]

I am busy feeding cows and I still have chores to do in my 4 chicken houses. Will get back tonite

I was joking about the dumb but if those cows are black and white il stand by that statement for you

 

[lariat]

Someone has fix CNC machines & robots on site. I do...

Yes, but there’s far fewer of you. That’s the point. And with AI, your opportunities will be fewer as well. Go to DMG/Mori Days up in Chicago and you will see plainly what’s being worked on. We are quickly leaving the old school world of simple Fanuc robots that change out parts, we are now integrating entire production lines with databases across countries. This is cheap enough even small shops can afford to do it.

 

[TxWelder35]

Going to try my hand at producing some of my own food this year. Put some blueberries, blackberries, and an elderberry bush in the ground last week. Won’t produce much this year, hoping next year will have a decent crop. Going to try planting most of the vegetables we consume also, I have enough room here to support most of what we eat in that area. Kids love strawberries so I’ll put some of those in too. Going to talk to my family today about feeding a steer out and getting a kill date set up.

Compost pile is getting started

Ordering some chicks in the spring

I want a jersey cow but damn is that a commitment.

Writing is on the wall for problems and learning to be self sufficient is going to be a benefit in the not so distant future I presume.

 

[Maggot]

This. In spades. You got a horse? Get ready to trade your bank account for hay to feed your oversized pet.

We burn our coastal fields every so often for weed control instead of using 2-4D, and once you get the weeds out you can back way off of that. But not the fertilizer. Hay production is hard on the land. It essentially turns your fields into a mineral mining operation and the results are much like reusing a tea bag. There is NO WAY I’m making quality hay and selling it at a discount this year. I’ll feed it to my own animals and still be money ahead. I keep two years back for me anyway, so another year won’t hurt.

I know someone mentioned it above but wouldnt crop rotation help. There are some plants that are nitrate fixers. Ive read that industrial hemp does wonders for the soil. See links.

santelabs.com › 2020 › 07Hemp Bioaccumulation: The Good and the Bad | Santé Laboratories​

• Sunn Hemp (Crotalaria junicea L.) has two major advantages over the common cover crops used in the area. It is a legume, which means it contains nitrogen-fixing nodules in the root zone that actually capture nitrogen from the atmosphere and add it to the soil. So it serves as a natural fertilizer for the soil.

blogs.ifas.ufl.edu/putnamco/2018/07/31/sunn-hemp-not-industrial-hemp/
Sunn Hemp (Not Industrial Hemp) - UF/IFAS Extension Putnam County

“Nitrogen-fixing” plants, for example, extract nitrogen from the air to aid in fertilization, resulting in higher concentrations of nitrogen in the surrounding soil. Also referred to as bioremediation,

www.ruralsprout.com › nitrogen-fixing-plants40 Nitrogen Fixing Plants To Grow In Your Garden​

 

[Maggot]

Going to try my hand at producing some of my own food this year. Put some blueberries, blackberries, and an elderberry bush in the ground last week. Won’t produce much this year, hoping next year will have a decent crop. Going to try planting most of the vegetables we consume also, I have enough room here to support most of what we eat in that area. Kids love strawberries so I’ll put some of those in too. Going to talk to my family today about feeding a steer out and getting a kill date set up.

Compost pile is getting started

Ordering some chicks in the spring

I want a jersey cow but damn is that a commitment.

Writing is on the wall for problems and learning to be self sufficient is going to be a benefit in the not so distant future I presume.

Find a Mulberry tree. Mulberry's make all others look like also ran. It does take a few years to get significant production.

 

[Bravo6niner]

I know someone mentioned it above but wouldnt crop rotation help. There are some plants that are nitrate fixers. Ive read that industrial hemp does wonders for the soil. See links.

santelabs.com › 2020 › 07Hemp Bioaccumulation: The Good and the Bad | Santé Laboratories​

• Sunn Hemp (Crotalaria junicea L.) has two major advantages over the common cover crops used in the area. It is a legume, which means it contains nitrogen-fixing nodules in the root zone that actually capture nitrogen from the atmosphere and add it to the soil. So it serves as a natural fertilizer for the soil.

blogs.ifas.ufl.edu/putnamco/2018/07/31/sunn-hemp-not-industrial-hemp/
Sunn Hemp (Not Industrial Hemp) - UF/IFAS Extension Putnam County

“Nitrogen-fixing” plants, for example, extract nitrogen from the air to aid in fertilization, resulting in higher concentrations of nitrogen in the surrounding soil. Also referred to as bioremediation,

www.ruralsprout.com › nitrogen-fixing-plants40 Nitrogen Fixing Plants To Grow In Your Garden​

None of that produces enough N for high production crops. Not saying it isn’t a fit in certain situations but it’s not a cure all so to speak. Soybeans are a legume and require a lot of N and fix a huge amount of it themselves but as the yield goes up they leave less and less N for the next crop. Soybeans are a great rotation for corn if they work in your particular soil types but farmers rotate to soybeans from corn for a lot more reasons than the N they fix.

 

[Maggot]

None of that produces enough N for high production crops. Not saying it isn’t a fit in certain situations but it’s not a cure all so to speak. Soybeans are a legume and require a lot of N and fix a huge amount of it themselves but as the yield goes up they leave less and less N for the next crop. Soybeans are a great rotation for corn if they work in your particular soil types but farmers rotate to soybeans from corn for a lot more reasons than the N they fix.

Im hip to soybeans. Another downside to them, as I understand it, is that apparently they produce a lot of estrogen in the milk and beef from cattle, which is translated into the food, thus a growing obesity in consumers.

 

[deersniper]

Im hip to soybeans. Another downside to them, as I understand it, is that apparently they produce a lot of estrogen in the milk and beef from cattle, which is translated into the food, thus a growing obesity in consumers.

People that are putting soybeans in a ration are doing it for a reason. Probably protein content.

The N they fix is inconsequential

 

[lariat]

I know someone mentioned it above but wouldnt crop rotation help. There are some plants that are nitrate fixers. Ive read that industrial hemp does wonders for the soil. See links.

santelabs.com › 2020 › 07Hemp Bioaccumulation: The Good and the Bad | Santé Laboratories​

• Sunn Hemp (Crotalaria junicea L.) has two major advantages over the common cover crops used in the area. It is a legume, which means it contains nitrogen-fixing nodules in the root zone that actually capture nitrogen from the atmosphere and add it to the soil. So it serves as a natural fertilizer for the soil.

blogs.ifas.ufl.edu/putnamco/2018/07/31/sunn-hemp-not-industrial-hemp/
Sunn Hemp (Not Industrial Hemp) - UF/IFAS Extension Putnam County

“Nitrogen-fixing” plants, for example, extract nitrogen from the air to aid in fertilization, resulting in higher concentrations of nitrogen in the surrounding soil. Also referred to as bioremediation,

www.ruralsprout.com › nitrogen-fixing-plants40 Nitrogen Fixing Plants To Grow In Your Garden​

You can put in winter peas, but the reality is that the requirements are more than can be provided in that way. Add in the costs for overseeding plus fuel and it doesn’t really add up.

Bermuda and other production grasses are permanent, you don’t rotate them. And if you were able to take the dirt and remove so you could see the root system of those grasses in the pasture I bet we woud all be shocked to see the square footage covered. You are feeding all of that, and it eats a LOT.

I brought up in another thread that if the price of hay and silage go up food across the board is going to skyrocket. Either because the meat ate the hay before it was killed or the other vegetative foods you eat have the same inputs (roughly) as hay and have the same price increases to those inputs.

 

[deersniper]

the price of hay and silage go up food across the board is going to skyrocket

Foods going up regardless.

 

[NoDopes]

So, will this be solved by government throwing money at it to feed thier armies (voters) or will they realize the problem and fix it at the source?
I'm afraid they'll speed up the printers and my savings will just become worthless.

 

[deersniper]

So, will this be solved by government throwing money at

More the opposite. Massive tariffs on imported phosphorus.

And N is extremely energy intensive to create so all the inflation is a big part of the price increase

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Just something to warm folks' spirits on this Thanksgiving evening!

 

[brt1963]

I'm just telling you its more psyop.
Every once in a great while, something comes along that I am extremely qualified to speak upon.
Didn't mean any offense. Just letting you know its bullshit.....technically.
They really have no idea what PFAS does or doesn't do. They know it collects and accumulates in fatty cells.

I’ve been dealing with PFAS for the past 6 years. PFAS bioaccumulates in muscle tissue, not fatty cells. PCBs bioaccumulate in fatty tissue. The problem with PFAS is that it is everywhere -in AFFF (airports), it is leaching out of pretty much every landfill, it concentrates in the bio solids from waste water treatment plants (which then got spread on fields), and it is in lots of consumer products. Regulated at parts per trillion in drinking water (depending on which state you live it). It does not biodegrade. So right now, causing regulatory panic. 5-10 years, we‘ll have a better idea what it really does…

 

[NoDopes]

5-10 years, we‘ll have a better idea what it really does…

Oof, just like the mRNA vaccines.

 

[supercorndogs]

There are a lot of misconceptions about how to use plants to fix nitrogen, build soil, and maintain fertility. I started a thread about ways to reduce Fertilizer inputs, and the reasons to reduce the uses of nitrates last year when they started burning down cities, and I saw cutting off our fertilizer was likely to happen in near future.

You can't pull a crop with a legume, and expect it to leave nitrogen for the next the crop. If you want to use nitrogen fixed by a legume. You need to terminate it before it makes seeds. It uses the nitrogen it sequesters to make its crop. There are legumes like sun hemp that fix a lot nitrogen.

Nitrogen is not limiting in the soil as much as carbon. The entire NPK model is flawed, and was made to sell something. Calcium is better molecule for plants to use to uptake nutrients, and potassium antagonizes calcium uptake. Your soil is a lot more than hydroponics set, or should be.

 

[deersniper]

concentrates in the bio solids from waste water treatment plants (which then got spread on fields)

Tell me more

 

[deersniper]

The entire NPK model is flawed, and was made to sell something

Tell me how to get 300++ bpa corn without it.

 

[supercorndogs]

Tell me how to get 300++ bpa corn without it.

The information you deleted around the quote was a hint to the context of the statement.

 

[deersniper]

Meh I think the farmers will stick with a lot of manure and n and k lol

If fertilizer gets cut off then people will be scrounging for seed fuel parts etc

 

[brt1963]

Tell me more

Overview presentations…

https://lpelc.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/21febPPallpresenters.pdf

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-10/documents/r1-pfas_webinar_day_2_session_6_mills_final.pdf

 

[deersniper]

Overview presentations…

https://lpelc.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/21febPPallpresenters.pdf

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-10/documents/r1-pfas_webinar_day_2_session_6_mills_final.pdf

I see some class a products pass Maines stringent testing so I don’t see the issue with applying them

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I’ve been dealing with PFAS for the past 6 years. PFAS bioaccumulates in muscle tissue, not fatty cells. PCBs bioaccumulate in fatty tissue. The problem with PFAS is that it is everywhere -in AFFF (airports), it is leaching out of pretty much every landfill, it concentrates in the bio solids from waste water treatment plants (which then got spread on fields), and it is in lots of consumer products. Regulated at parts per trillion in drinking water (depending on which state you live it). It does not biodegrade. So right now, causing regulatory panic. 5-10 years, we‘ll have a better idea what it really does…

Great.
So everything i learned about it in the water and wastewater industry is false.
Its amazing how no matter how long one has been in study, there's always someone who knows more these days.
I guess the seminars I was attending were just put on by retards.
Specifically, muscle is the lowest concentration.
It would have to be, if your liver, brain, lungs and bone has higher concetrations.

I weep for the future of this country. Where science is driven by propaganda

Accumulation of perfluoroalkyl substances in human tissues

Perfluoroalkyl substances (PFASs) are environmental pollutants with an important bioaccumulation potential. However, their metabolism and distribution…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[deersniper]

Great.
So everything i learned about it in the water and wastewater industry is false.
Its amazing how no matter how long one has been in study, there's always someone who knows more these days.
I guess the seminars I was attending were just put on by retards.
Specifically, muscle is the lowest concentration.
It would have to be, if your liver, brain, lungs and bone has higher concetrations.

I weep for the future of this country. Where science is driven by propaganda

Accumulation of perfluoroalkyl substances in human tissues

Perfluoroalkyl substances (PFASs) are environmental pollutants with an important bioaccumulation potential. However, their metabolism and distribution…

www.sciencedirect.com

What are your thoughts on class a products. ? I see Synagro’s product passed some environmentalists private analysis with flying colors

 

[memtb]

While not a great gardener, we have about 20 to 25 yards of feedlot manure piled-up for our garden! No “fertilizer shortage” here! Often, being a survivalist is a rural area is a very positive thing! memtb