Florida SRO resigns instead of being fired. He failed to react.

[FJG]

To all you manly "men" on this thread volunteering my wife (a teacher) to protect your loved ones at school heres a suggestion: Why don't YOU, VOLUNTEER to be a school crossing guard and then YOU can stop the threat before it happens!
Let the excuses begin!

 

[Foul Mike]

Hell yes I will do it but I want my gun with me so I am on an even keel with the shooter. Therein lies a problem. It's a gun free zone and what good could I do with a stop and go paddle sign against a gun? Would that be kind of like showing up to a gun fight with a paddle and wondering why that fool with the sign is dead?
Maybe your wife is not qualified to have a gun or is not cut out for it, I don't know but if she is I would rather her be armed than not.
I am an Infantry Vet who served in VietNam and a firefight is nothing new to me so I think I could do some good in a situation like that.
I am old and slow so would be an easy target for the shooter but sure as hell would not run away or hide outside as the shooter did his evil.
Is that a good enough excuse for you? FM I am sure I am not alone on this board with feelings like that.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

To all you manly "men" on this thread volunteering my wife (a teacher) to protect your loved ones at school heres a suggestion: Why don't YOU, VOLUNTEER to be a school crossing guard and then YOU can stop the threat before it happens!
Let the excuses begin!

No one volunteered your wife scooter. No one is suggesting mandatory participation by teachers. There are plenty of teachers who want to do this already, they simply don't have the chance.

Does your wife carry a pistol when she isn't teaching?
What do you personally think about a gun free zone?
In your accusation of us "men", we can only assume you'd prefer your wife "not" be armed as a teacher. So....you prefer her to be a victim then?

Sure, I'll gladly volunteer as a crossing guard, school security, I'll stand at the front door, side door, wherever I'm needed, but I'm not going to stand there with a stop sign waiting on an armed threat.
Are you being obtuse on purpose or is it an act?

 

[Veer_G]

To all you manly "men" on this thread volunteering my wife (a teacher) to protect your loved ones at school heres a suggestion: Why don't YOU, VOLUNTEER to be a school crossing guard and then YOU can stop the threat before it happens!
Let the excuses begin!

Well, well, well. Welcome to the tribe, so to speak. 16 days in, you must have escaped the notice of the induction cadre. You won't mind if we give you a temporary moniker while we're processing your papers and getting the gauntlet ready so that we can formally jump you in, would you?

Lemme fire up the naming program. I don't usually do this, so please bear with me. Okay, almost there. Got it. Punch this key, and ...

"Felches Scrofulous Trannies." Let's throw in a vowel for easy abbreviation in referencing: FiST. Mmm, catchy, I like.

Now run along and report to Maser for your Hygiene Inspection. He's very meticulous, really NTCH.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Well, well, well. Welcome to the tribe, so to speak. 16 days in, you must have escaped the notice of the induction cadre. You won't mind if we give you a temporary moniker while we're processing your papers and getting the gauntlet ready so that we can formally jump you in, would you?

i suggest "cuttin heads".....but it won't work out for lightnin boy this time.

 

[ArmyJerry]

if your wife cant look after peoples kids while in her charge she should find other employment to pay off that liberal arts degree.

To all you manly "men" on this thread volunteering my wife (a teacher) to protect your loved ones at school heres a suggestion: Why don't YOU, VOLUNTEER to be a school crossing guard and then YOU can stop the threat before it happens!
Let the excuses begin!

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Also, an armed and trained teacher in every fucking classroom is an order of magnitude more response capability than 4 armed guards in a school with 200 teachers...

It seems that you people forget that the vast majority of teachers want to teach. Not become half ass trained
ass kicking bodyguards for the kids.

Guess what.

The teachers don't want to be nurses either (that's why they have school nurses)
They don't want to be a psychologist to deal with kids that have mental issues in school (that's why schools have actual psychologists)
They don't want to counsel (that's why schools have counselors)

Point being, teachers can't be everything, and for good reason, they are there to TEACH. That is what they do, and what should be expected
of them.

You want a sheepdog, a protector, then you get one. Don't try to make the teacher into the fucking swiss army knife of specialties.

The competent, trained, former vietnam, iraq, whatever vets some of you talk about are an extreme outlier.
If I wanted to become a teacher after all my experiences there is no doubt I'd pray for the day someone tried to fuck with my school. Just so
I could put a few rounds in them and giggle while doing it. But I am very far from what the vast amount of teachers are.

Why a paid, highly professional, trained guard is not the obvious answer to everyone baffles my mind.

Well...........one that isn't a god damn coward anyhow.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Why a paid, highly professional, trained guard is not the obvious answer to everyone baffles my mind.

Well...........one that isn't a god damn coward anyhow.

Why letting teachers who want to be armed, isn't the answer, baffles my mind.
There was a trained sheepdog at the school in Florida, a goddamned highly paid one at that.

It baffles me how people like you assume only certain people have training.

 

[Veer_G]

It seems that you people forget that the vast majority of teachers want to teach. Not become half ass trained
ass kicking bodyguards for the kids.

Guess what.

The teachers don't want to be nurses either (that's why they have school nurses)
They don't want to be a psychologist to deal with kids that have mental issues in school (that's why schools have actual psychologists)
They don't want to counsel (that's why schools have counselors)

Point being, teachers can't be everything, and for good reason, they are there to TEACH. That is what they do, and what should be expected
of them.

You want a sheepdog, a protector, then you get one. Don't try to make the teacher into the fucking swiss army knife of specialties.

The competent, trained, former vietnam, iraq, whatever vets some of you talk about are an extreme outlier.

Why a paid, highly professional, trained guard is not the obvious answer to everyone baffles my mind.

Well...........one that isn't a god damn coward anyhow.

Not that I owe you any real courtesy, but I'm going to put a politely phrased question to you: have you ever been a public school teacher?

You aren't the only one in here trying to equate opinion with experience. Your notion of the responsibilities of a teacher versus actual practice is like five-day-old fish: well off.

Teachers can't just impart subject matter curricula and ignore everything else. They're specialists in their subjects, and first line of defense generalists in a host of matters affecting students individually and as a whole. Ever had a 14-year-old kid show up in the middle of a class you were teaching, fall into your arms sobbing because his step-dad got shot to death for $20, a cell phone, and his bag lunch at a bus stop? Ever had to help make arrests in the middle of a melée of dozens of kids in front of your classroom door, because the two assigned SROs and four school district cops were in over their heads? In some schools, that's every other day.

Most schools don't have enough resources to adequately help the kids who need it the most, and the parents who pray for September and expect schools to address disciplinary issues in their stead make any real learning difficult at best. The video of the 5-year-old is a case in point. The parents obviously aren't raising him with any restrictions or expectations, and they're offended when a schoolteacher acts in loco parentis because the job ain't happenin' at home. It happens all too often, and it isn't just the people who barely live paycheck-to-paycheck. I could tell you horror stories of upper class kids being raised by Jamaican nannies and Honduran housekeepers because their parents are too busy being wonderful through an extended adolescence.

 

[...]

To all you manly "men" on this thread volunteering my wife (a teacher) to protect your loved ones at school heres a suggestion: Why don't YOU, VOLUNTEER to be a school crossing guard and then YOU can stop the threat before it happens!
Let the excuses begin!

calm your tits.....no one here is advocating MANDATORY arming of teachers......were advocating removing the restrictions that prevent those of us who want to carry from doing so.

 

[...]

It seems that you people forget that the vast majority of teachers want to teach. Not become half ass trained
ass kicking bodyguards for the kids.

youre absolutely right.....i dont WANT to have to protect my kids......no one in their right mind would ever WANT to be in a situation like that.

if i could live the rest of my life and never have to worry about carrying a gun, ide take that in a heart beat.

the problem is......when someone comes knocking on my class door with a gun.......i NEED to protect my kids........because currently my only other option is to sit there like a fish in a barrel.

i dont want to patrol the halls like fucking rambo.....i just want to be allowed to carry my sidearm for my protection just the same as i do when im not at school.

like i said....theres nothing magical about a school......its another fucking building with people in it.........no one has a problem when i CC in a mall, or movie theatre.......but all of a sudden when i step into a school im a bumbling butter-finger whos going to shoot a bunch of kids???

armed guards are great, and i think we should have them..........but as weve seen........they cannot be trusted to run into the line of fire.

the only person i trust with my personal safety is myself.....and right now i am not able to do that.

i know for a fact that i have received more training than 90% of police officers.....and i can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that i am more qualified with the use of a sidearm than some tackleberry SRO.........yet he is allowed to carry, and i am not...........just because he has a title and i dont.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Based on this incident, we should take all guns from cops and give them to school coaches and teachers.

Government is not responsible for your self defense, that is law and has been ruled on by SCOTUS.

Cops and FBI now showing and admitting they are not mentally fit to defend your kids at school, not before hand and not during active shooter incidents. Why are we militarizing those organizations in the first place?

It seems that you people forget that the vast majority of teachers want to teach. Not become half ass trained
ass kicking bodyguards for the kids.

Guess what.

The teachers don't want to be nurses either (that's why they have school nurses)
They don't want to be a psychologist to deal with kids that have mental issues in school (that's why schools have actual psychologists)
They don't want to counsel (that's why schools have counselors)

Point being, teachers can't be everything, and for good reason, they are there to TEACH. That is what they do, and what should be expected
of them.

You want a sheepdog, a protector, then you get one. Don't try to make the teacher into the fucking swiss army knife of specialties.

You had a cop run, what more of a sheep dog would you want, a school cop watched kids he seen every day get slaughtered and did nothing. Seems another BSO set up outside and sat there sipping his starbucks while waiting for the Power Rangers to show up (WTF Over). Give the teachers the option to protect themselves and their kids (yes when they are teaching other people's kids they are responsible for them, the kids are in their charge, get that through your fucking heads).

The competent, trained, former vietnam, iraq, whatever vets some of you talk about are an extreme outlier.
If I wanted to become a teacher after all my experiences there is no doubt I'd pray for the day someone tried to fuck with my school. Just so
I could put a few rounds in them and giggle while doing it. But I am very far from what the vast amount of teachers are.

Why a paid, highly professional, trained guard is not the obvious answer to everyone baffles my mind.

Did you miss the part where the Cops failed to do their stated duty,

Well...........one that isn't a god damn coward anyhow.

I don't want to hear any cops on this board profess how badass they are and justify why they need any new training, or equipment, or need to infringe on anyone's goddam rights in the name of safety ever again I will bring this incident up and throw it in your face, it seems you are all brave and badass when shooting a guy on his porch at night while blinding him, but you piss your pants once someone starts an active shooter incident, pa fuking thetic.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Yup, just made that shit up. My girlfriend is a school administrator. Know how many of her coworkers can handle a gun in a situation like that
....................fucking none.

Teachers are there to teach you dipshits. Let them teach.

Hire a sheepdog to do the protecting

End of story.

But she can handle a knife?
I remember you now, you were looking for a knife for your fiance to keep in her purse, when you couldn't be there with your .45.

I think you are full of shit

Your tune sure has changed in the last 5 years....kinda.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Oh I could kick this thread into overdrive right now...love the screenshot function on my phone.

But let's stay on topic...shall we?

 

[Veer_G]

Was it a woodcraft vs. fighting thing, @armorpl8chikn ?

 

[FatBoy]

This shit is rapidly defending into typical hide tit for tat.

To answer the sheepdog question, it is a good idea. However, that school had 3000 people in it. I would guess it's around 500,000 - 750,000 square feet spread over two floors and several buildings. You'd would need a dozen or more guards to have a chance of being there within 60 seconds.

I'm not advocating that teachers, even armed and trained, are required to go on the offensive. I'm also not nieve enough to think having "school Marshall" teachers would save everyone in an active shooter situation. Someone is gonna be #1 before anyone stats rolling. If there are guards, teachers supplement. Holding a defensive position at least. If any of them have assault training, and the intestinal fortitude to crack the door open and scan the hall, so be it. If they think they can maneuver into a position to stop or kill the (or one of multiples) why not give them the option to start the process now? Well, once the training is created. (maybe they could use someone that million rounds of pistol ammo the D.O.E. purchased under BHO?)

Just knowing there is an unknown amount of armed people in an area has stopped armies from invading. There is always an easier target.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Joseph Heller Was Here

To all you manly "men" on this thread volunteering my wife (a teacher) to protect your loved ones at school heres a suggestion: Why don't YOU, VOLUNTEER to be a school crossing guard and then YOU can stop the threat before it happens!
Let the excuses begin!

How about she protect herself. It is what it is in this day and age. Viva Zapata. “It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.” Who needs police and teachers when we have crossing guards.

 

[...]

Just knowing there is an unknown amount of armed people in an area has stopped armies from invading. There is always an easier target.

and that is exactly the point.......there is a reason these things happen in "gun free zones".......because the cowards know that therell be no one to stop them.

take 2 bowls of M&Ms.......one is completely harmless regular candy......the other has a 50/50 chance at least 1 M&M is poisoned.....which bowl are you going to take candy from?

once the target has become hardened, or at least has the potential to be hardened........the chance of anyone "needing to go on the offensive" becomes almost 0

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Was it a woodcraft vs. fighting thing, @armorpl8chikn ?

No...he wasn't in that discussion...but that brought back memories. Ahh the good old days. Thanks for that trip down memry avenue.

 

[Maggot]

And heressssssssss Scot Peterson

 

[Maggot]

and that is exactly the point.......there is a reason these things happen in "gun free zones".......because the cowards know that therell be no one to stop them.

take 2 bowls of M&Ms.......one is completely harmless regular candy......the other has a 50/50 chance at least 1 M&M is poisoned.....which bowl are you going to take candy from?

once the target has because hardened, or at least has the potential to be hardened........the chance of anyone "needing to go on the offensive" becomes almost 0

A picture is worth a thousand words:

 

[Veer_G]

Just knowing there is an unknown amount of armed people in an area has stopped armies from invading. There is always an easier target.

School shootings usually involve a personal fixation on the institution or the student body. Exceptions exist, like Beslan, but the shooter almost always is looking for revenge to redress slights or humiliation, real or imaginary, or to take out the humiliation of their failures on others. Kip Kinkel killed his parents, and then shot up Thurston High after getting busted for possession of a stolen firearm. The Columbine shooters, in part, reacted in a final, violent manner to four years of intense bullying in high school. Adam Lanza was apparently motivated by his mother's association as a volunteer at Sandy Hook Elementary School and his own time there.

 

[6.5 Cravemoor]

More egg on face to that sheriffs office. Funny how they announced it After the Cnn town hall otherwise Dana would have lit him up even more.

 

[diverdon]

All kidding aside, arming teachers is something best done carefully. Look at all the training the Air Marshals get yet there have been several accounts of Air Marshals leaving their gun in the toilet. Teachers need to have their attention on their students, and each teacher has his or her own style of interacting with students. Many teachers use a light demeanor to convey subject matter.

When someone carries a firearm they should have a serious professional attitude, no one who carries a firearm for personal defence should ever allow themselves to become angry. Yet if a class misbehaves a teacher sometimes must show anger, to let the class know that certain behavior is unacceptable. I can see many times where what a teacher does in the classroom and what a person armed for self defense are not the same.

When you carry a handgun much of your attention should be on your surroundings and what dangers might come up. You should have a plan to retain and properly deploy your weapon when necessary. This plan should always be in the forefront of your mind. If you are a teacher and your goal should be to pay attention to your students and make sure that they are paying attention to you and learning the material. In the larger sense you need to help them learn how to learn and love learning.

I believe that teachers retain their Second Amendment rights. Yet, I believe that it is a very personal decision if they want to use those rights on the job. I believe that most of the teachers I have had would have been better off without a gun.....Unless of course violence had actually visited the classroom.

 

[_Windrider_]

All kidding aside, arming teachers is something best done carefully. Look at all the training the Air Marshals get yet there have been several accounts of Air Marshals leaving their gun in the toilet. Teachers need to have their attention on their students, and each teacher has his or her own style of interacting with students. Many teachers use a light demeanor to convey subject matter.

When someone carries a firearm they should have a serious professional attitude, no one who carries a firearm for personal defence should ever allow themselves to become angry. Yet if a class misbehaves a teacher sometimes must show anger, to let the class know that certain behavior is unacceptable. I can see many times where what a teacher does in the classroom and what a person armed for self defense are not the same.

When you carry a handgun much of your attention should be on your surroundings and what dangers might come up. You should have a plan to retain and properly deploy your weapon when necessary. This plan should always be in the forefront of your mind. If you are a teacher and your goal should be to pay attention to your students and make sure that they are paying attention to you and learning the material. In the larger sense you need to help them learn how to learn and love learning.

I believe that teachers retain their Second Amendment rights. Yet, I believe that it is a very personal decision if they want to use those rights on the job. I believe that most of the teachers I have had would have been better off without a gun.....Unless of course violence had actually visited the classroom.

In addition to the FAM's, there are over 12,000 of the 50,000 or so commercial airline pilots in this country that are credentialed LEO's that carry in the cockpit everyday. Who is and who isnt is unknown to the passengers, so as far as mohammed ala terrorist is concerned we are all armed. pretty big deterrent to try a repeat attempt of 9/11.

EDIT: Failed to mention these individuals VOLUNTEER for this and receive no compensation. unlike this pice of shit SRO, there is no where to run when you are cornered in a tube with no way out. Its fight or die.

 

[diverdon]

this pice of shit SRO

If I had a time machine I would drop this SRO off in Spain at the height of the Spanish Inquisition with his iPhone then I would send the local Bishop a note that he has a million tons of gold buried away.

 

[Veer_G]

When someone carries a firearm they should have a serious professional attitude, no one who carries a firearm for personal defence should ever allow themselves to become angry. Yet if a class misbehaves a teacher sometimes must show anger, to let the class know that certain behavior is unacceptable. I can see many times where what a teacher does in the classroom and what a person armed for self defense are not the same.

When you carry a handgun much of your attention should be on your surroundings and what dangers might come up. You should have a plan to retain and properly deploy your weapon when necessary. This plan should always be in the forefront of your mind. If you are a teacher and your goal should be to pay attention to your students and make sure that they are paying attention to you and learning the material. In the larger sense you need to help them learn how to learn and love learning.

I have the right, carrying or not, to a range of emotions. Not all of them are appropriate to display before students. That said, anyone who can't divorce their potential for occasional anger from a propensity for drawing a weapon shouldn't be armed.

Teachers in the classroom are constantly in a 360° performance activity, not entirely unlike an officer in the field interacting with the public. They develop command presence, and learn to position themselves in the classroom, much as police employ the interview stance, and approach a stopped vehicle in a prescribed fashion.

I don't think that the nurturing nature of teaching would be inhibited by the protective stance of an armed teacher. There's a rational limit to physical proximity in the classroom anyway. But arming teachers would require significant dedication and training and frankly, no, not all pack the right gear for the task.

 

[Veer_G]

If I had a time machine I would drop this SRO off in Spain at the height of the Spanish Inquisition with his iPhone then I would send the local Bishop a note that he has a million tons of gold buried away.

That's bizarre.

 

[The King]

This is very true veer_g.

Combine bullying with psych drugs and Facebook and something very specific can happen.

As for the people who are saying “how dare you volunteer my XX for this”, you obviously don’t understand what’s going on here. I find this attitude amongst people who are LE and .mil sometimes - it’s the thought that volunteering to go into a dangerous career is the only reason life is dangerous.

I’m not “volunteering” people for shit. LIFE just whipped out a rifle and said “if you don’t have any way to deal with this shit, you are getting voluntold to report to a grave”

School shootings usually involve a personal fixation on the institution or the student body. Exceptions exist, like Beslan, but the shooter almost always is looking for revenge to redress slights or humiliation, real or imaginary, or to take out the humiliation of their failures on others. Kip Kinkel killed his parents, and then shot up Thurston High after getting busted for possession of a stolen firearm. The Columbine shooters, in part, reacted in a final, violent manner to four years of intense bullying in high school. Adam Lanza was apparently motivated by his mother's association as a volunteer at Sandy Hook Elementary School and his own time there.

 

[diverdon]

That's bizarre.

Yes Veer it is a little bizarre, but allowing him to start drawing a pension does not seem to be enough sanction for his failure to act. For that matter even forcing him to attend the services for the children he should have protected does not seem to be enough.

 

[fdkay]

How do you weed the cowards out?
I'm willing to bet that this POS had plenty of instances during his time on the street where he did not back up others on his shift or dodged calls on fights or armed suspects.
They likely made him an SRO because he was a "nice guy" and was friendly.
Nothing gets done, because they need warm bodies. They end up being nothing more than armed stenographers. They eventually find there way to low risk assignments, showing up and collecting a paycheck.
It saddens me that this fuck was on scene doing nothing, while hero teachers AND students were sacrificing themselves to save other children.
Fucking yellow bastard.

 

[diverdon]

How do you weed the cowards out?
I'm willing to bet that this POS had plenty of instances during his time on the street where he did not back up others on his shift or dodged calls on fights or armed suspects.
They likely made him an SRO because he was a "nice guy" and was friendly.
Nothing gets done, because they need warm bodies. They end up being nothing more than armed stenographers. They eventually find there way to low risk assignments, showing up and collecting a paycheck.
It saddens me that this fuck was on scene doing nothing, while hero teachers AND students were sacrificing themselves to save other children.
Fucking yellow bastard.

I would be willing to bet this SRO was assigned there because he was a worthless turd.

 

[FatBoy]

I think most agree this guy went chicken shit when the chips were down. I like to think I would have stepped up. In my mind, there is no question I would have BUT most here (myself included) haven't been shot at, and thus are speculating. Nobody really knows how they will act under fire, until they are under fire and this cat had no battle buddy.

I'm not excusing what he did, but he would hardly be the first guy to shrink from a fire fight.

 

[The King]

The solution to a coward being the hinge pin that broke and the whole protective model fell apart is to have enough people that even a marginal response rate is still effective.

This is why having 100 armed responders is more likely to have a result that is positive...hence armed teachers.

I think most agree this guy went chicken shit when the chips were down. I like to think I would have stepped up. In my mind, there is no question I would have BUT most here (myself included) haven't been shot at, and thus are speculating. Nobody really knows how they will act under fire, until they are under fire and this cat had no battle buddy.

I'm not excusing what he did, but he would hardly be the first guy to shrink from a fire fight.

 

[diverdon]

I think most agree this guy went chicken shit when the chips were down. I like to think I would have stepped up. In my mind, there is no question I would have BUT most here (myself included) haven't been shot at, and thus are speculating. Nobody really knows how they will act under fire, until they are under fire and this cat had no battle buddy.

I'm not excusing what he did, but he would hardly be the first guy to shrink from a fire fight.

Sorry but he should have figured out how to get past that problem as he was cashing his paychecks.

 

[The King]

Also maybe this SRO just locked up. If so, that’s what it is. Sometimes your brain chemistry takes the wheel and does what it wants. The most hardcore gung-ho motherfuckers can lock right up the first time, and that pussy over there might be the man in a firefight.

Now if the department had a clear indicator he was going to lock up, then they should eat the dick.

The solution to a coward being the hinge pin that broke and the whole protective model fell apart is to have enough people that even a marginal response rate is still effective.

This is why having 100 armed responders is more likely to have a result that is positive...hence armed teachers.

 

[diverdon]

Also maybe this SRO just locked up. If so, that’s what it is. Sometimes your brain chemistry takes the wheel and does what it wants. The most hardcore gung-ho motherfuckers can lock right up the first time, and that pussy over there might be the man in a firefight.

Now if the department had a clear indicator he was going to lock up, then they should eat the dick.

I guess I could have bought that explaination had he lost the gunfight, but his feet locked up and would not take him to the gunfight. I can not see it.

 

[BoilerUP]

The JROTC cadets showed far, FAR more courage than this "sworn law enforcement officer".

I bet they wouldn't have shirked the threat had they been armed.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Sorry but he should have figured out how to get past that problem as he was cashing his paychecks.

It does not work that way. Unless you have been shot at before you would like to think everyone would engage that is being shot at, but that's not the way it is the first time. The fight that tagged me with my logon here was my second, my first my lag time was long. The second go round I went pissed right from the gate. I've seen FNG's hide, cry, shake, freeze, but I have also seen FNG's in the fight before older guys as well. Until it happens the first time no one can predict who is going to do what, an that is pure fact. Once guys have banged their weapon in anger a few times it's different an mostly predictable but before that not so much.

 

[_Windrider_]

It does not work that way. Unless you have been shot at before you would like to think everyone would engage that is being shot at, but that's not the way it is the first time. The fight that tagged me with my logon here was my second, my first my lag time was long. The second go round I went pissed right from the gate. I've seen FNG's hide, cry, shake, freeze, but I have also seen FNG's in the fight before older guys as well. Until it happens the first time no one can predict who is going to do what, an that is pure fact. Once guys have banged their weapon in anger a few times it's different an mostly predictable but before that not so much.

while this is all 100% truth. it does not offer any excuse or should allow us to pity this POS. He sat back and listened to kids get slaughtered.he is as guilty as the shooter IMHO. whats the phrase.....? oh yes, if he could have saved just one life. Yes we never know how we will react, no denying it. but a 30 year veteran officer should have had the fear trained out of him by now.

 

[diverdon]

It does not work that way. Unless you have been shot at before you would like to think everyone would engage that is being shot at, but that's not the way it is the first time. The fight that tagged me with my logon here was my second, my first my lag time was long. The second go round I went pissed right from the gate. I've seen FNG's hide, cry, shake, freeze, but I have also seen FNG's in the fight before older guys as well. Until it happens the first time no one can predict who is going to do what, an that is pure fact. Once guys have banged their weapon in anger a few times it's different an mostly predictable but before that not so much.

I get what you are saying, and I still disagree with your conclusion. The key the phrase "in a gun fight" if this guy ran walked or crawled to a gunfight then froze with crap in his pants, I'll buy him a beer. Cowering outside the building....Nope.

 

[FS1]

The teachers don't want to be nurses either (that's why they have school nurses)
They don't want to be a psychologist to deal with kids that have mental issues in school (that's why schools have actual psychologists)
They don't want to counsel (that's why schools have counselors)

Point being, teachers can't be everything, and for good reason, they are there to TEACH. That is what they do, and what should be expected
of them.

I am sure they don’t want to be dead either. I expect them not to die.

Why a paid, highly professional, trained guard is not the obvious answer to everyone baffles my mind.

Well...........one that isn't a god damn coward anyhow.

1) One Guard cant be everywhere. Ten or twenty teachers with guns can cover more area.
2) One guard making 60k will end up costing 600k by the time school board gets theirs.

 

[The King]

I don't disagree with GF at all. You can't even KNOW what you are going to do until it happens. The gunfight starts as soon as you know there is a gunfight. and all you can do in training is modify the percentages of likelihood that the outcome will be good.

The only mostly sure mechanism to ensure that school defense personnel are gtg is to staff them with combat veterans who acquitted themselves well. That will never happen, so we are left with Plan B. Plan B should be "how do we arm enough people to ensure that an armed response occurs even at a 50% personnel failure rate"

I get what you are saying, and I still disagree with your conclusion. The key the phrase "in a gun fight" if this guy ran walked or crawled to a gunfight then froze with crap in his pants, I'll buy him a beer. Cowering outside the building....Nope.

 

[Maggot]

It does not work that way. Unless you have been shot at before you would like to think everyone would engage that is being shot at, but that's not the way it is the first time. The fight that tagged me with my logon here was my second, my first my lag time was long. The second go round I went pissed right from the gate. I've seen FNG's hide, cry, shake, freeze, but I have also seen FNG's in the fight before older guys as well. Until it happens the first time no one can predict who is going to do what, an that is pure fact. Once guys have banged their weapon in anger a few times it's different an mostly predictable but before that not so much.

Well said. ThoughIve had a couple pointed my way, Ive never been in a gunfight. I like to think Id go Rambo but as you said, til youre there you just never know. I still think this guy needs to be delivered to the students parents.

 

[FS1]

When you face life or death is there really a fifty percent failure rate?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I get what you are saying, and I still disagree with your conclusion.

You can disagree all you want but I've seen it to many times, first hand. You would think it never would happen in a SF unit but it does. You train as realistic as you can, but the first time it's real it is always different.

 

[oneshot86]

here we go, anouther, "back in the old days"

back in the old days, behind the parts counter was a mechanic, he was either shop owner, hurt mech, or ready to call it quits and retire.
perfect spot for him and for us who were buying parts and appreciated his knowledge...

ace hardware, it didnt have pussy assed cheap labor know nothing kids, it had guys who were seasoned...

maybe give our cops that have had a good career, the job. finish out as school resorce officers, give our kids someone to look up to and envy

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Well said. ThoughIve had a couple pointed my way, Ive never been in a gunfight. I like to think Id go Rambo but as you said, til youre there you just never know. I still think this guy needs to be delivered to the students parents.

He's a real POS no doubt, an there are many like him who hide behind the badge an take the money until they meet someone willing to go the distance. Then the excuses come out.

 

[oneshot86]

leave him to himself, its the worse we could do

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Hey....were one of you guys at the White House?
Too expensive to arm teachers.
No...it's not what they want. They want to do away with people owning guns....any guns.

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