Suppressors Form 4 wait time

[PropWash]

I know my local FFL/SOT told me when he had his recent audit from the ATF, the guy flew in from TX as they didn’t have anyone locally. Compare that to Houston that likely has an ATF field office in the area, so if they decide to audit/visit someone like this maybe it‘s a 20 minute drive for example, and no big deal for them or the person getting the visit because they are in a large city to begin with.

 

[Defender3]

Submitted and In Progress: 03/06/2023
Permit #: 202340665X

This is so frustrating. I did an eForm with a trust, this is my 9th time through the process and I'm thinking 274 days but unsure if braces will introduce a wildcard. I had to renew my LEOSA last week, went to an FBI channeler and had my approved results in the time it took me to drive home. /weakrantoff

 

[hollowoutadime]

The guy with the 20 could have bought a machine gun collection. There's a Thompson collector in the Houston area, I believe he buys up NFA estates.

 

[PropWash]

The guy with the 20 could have bought a machine gun collection. There's a Thompson collector in the Houston area, I believe he buys up NFA estates.

No machine guns. In the link to the nfa subreddit I posted on the previous page I also provided an attachment that shows the guy’s post of exactly what was approved. It’s 19 individual suppressors and an integrally suppressed lever gun.

See the attachment again below.

 

[hollowoutadime]

Good info - I'm sitting on 2022573xxx so that's hopeful. Bloody crazy it takes so long for an approval, especially if you already have stamps.

 

[Charger442]

Are you aware that if you buy two or more handguns within seven days, that triggers the requirement the FFL licensee must send a copy of the transaction to the ATF and local law enforcement? Perhaps, if someone would buy 10 handguns in seven days they might decide to pay that person a visit as a precaution to get a read on that person.

I don’t think the issue would be that he is on the ATF radar because he has done something wrong, but rather buying 20 NFA items is something unusual and an outlier. If he had done something wrong, he wouldn’t be buying firearms, much less NFA items. ATF may have protocols that when something like this happens they go visit the individual to get a feel for the person.

The only other thing that comes to mind is maybe he does indeed have an FFL/SOT, but these 20 items are obviously for him personally. Maybe the guy is rich and at times he buys a high number of NFA items like this and the ATF decided in the past to pay the guy a visit and audit his FFL/SOT business while there. If an audit happened in the past due to an unusual circumstance such as at present, it would explain why he is inclined to think it might happen again.

i am aware of what triggers notification to the FBI, since i live in a border state. They do not, to my knowledge, have to notify local LEO.

you are confusing what is happening here in the NFA process versus a typical 4473 multi-gun transfer. since i am a CHL holder in Texas, i dont have to go through a NICS check, so if i buy 20 guns at once, the only way the Feds know is if the FFL contacts them, which thanks to Obama and his wingman Holder, is required.

but the NFA paperwork is a background check performed by the FBI at the request of the ATF. They know everything and have all the details on all firearms before they approve him. so why approve and then go "audit" something?

ATF: "This is a high volume of transfers, something seems fishy here. We need to look into this. But first, approve everything he has pending approval!!"


Also, no FFL/SOT would transfer to themselves on a Form 4 instead of to the FFL on a Form 3. Those Form 3s are tax free (unless coming from a form 4) and would stay in that individuals possession even when their FFL expires.

 

[PropWash]

They know everything and have all the details on all firearms before they approve him. so why approve and then go "audit" something?

ATF: "This is a high volume of transfers, something seems fishy here. We need to look into this. But first, approve everything he has pending approval!!"

Why would they approve him? Because they have to! There is a misunderstanding here. I am saying someone that legally buys an NFA item can buy as many as they want AND the ATF has the authority to go investigate/speak with anyone they want if they choose to. All I am saying is they may have a threshold that when exceeded initiates a flag. It doesn’t mean that they are going out to hassle the guy. The ATF could call the guy and ask if they could make an appointment and stop by and he could tell them to go pound sand or he could say yes.

They can choose to audit (an FFL/SOT) because audits are part of having the license or because they have a concern, it’s that simple. If the guy buys 20 NFA items they may go and talk to him to see if he is doing something suspicious, what the person’s state of mind is etc. Certain circumstances can and do trigger reviews. It could be as simple as an ATF agent, seeing this guys 20 approvals and maybe the guy has a 120 NFA items total, the agent goes to his supervisor and that guy says, ”Look at this guy, John Smith’s history he buys nothing for several years and then he buys a high number, he submitted 14 in 2020, 31 in 2018, it’s just this guys pattern, we’ve gone out and talked to him before, nothing to be concerned with here.” It’s about patterns and profiles.

Also, no FFL/SOT would transfer to themselves on a Form 4 instead of to the FFL on a Form 3. Those Form 3s are tax free (unless coming from a form 4) and would stay in that individuals possession even when their FFL expires.

Sure they would if the FFL is going out of business. A person decides they are tired of paying the yearly $1000 SOT tax and decides to retire. They buy all the cans they want personally through the FFL/SOT use them whenever they want, while they wait for the final approvals of the form 4s to come through and close the doors or call the ATF and tell them they are going out of business and get all of those designated personal cans approved instantly.

The reality is neither you or I have enough information of what this guy means by he ”might be subject to an audit.” The guy has said if anyone has any questions he will answer them. I don’t have a Reddit account or I would ask him what he specifically means by the audit. If you have a Reddit account maybe go and ask him and post back here what he says.

Senidng to local law enforcement is part of the rules here for two or more handgun buys in seven days.

I‘ve provided some possible scenarios, but certainly not all of the possible reasons for the audit or exactly what the term means to him.

 

[southernpew]

The reality is neither you or I have enough information of what this guy means by he ”might be subject to an audit.” The guy has said if anyone has any questions he will answer them. I don’t have a Reddit account or I would ask him what he specifically means by the audit. If you have a Reddit account maybe go and ask him and post back here what he says.

I just asked him under his post. Will report back with any answers

 

[PropWash]

I just asked him under his post. Will report back with any answers

Fantastic, I will watch here and on Reddit to see what his reply is.

 

[southernpew]

Fantastic, I will watch here and on Reddit to see what his reply is.

Just for more context. I do not believe he has 50+ NFA items. Seems like he may have cancelled a wedding or something and decided to splurge on himself

Still interested to see if he meant anything by audit or if he just threw that out there

 

[longtines]

And #3 of 3 showed up today.

Control No: 20225447XX
Submission Date: 06/03/22
Approved Date: 03/07/2023
Days: 277

 

[PropWash]

View attachment 8091153

Just for more context. I do not believe he has 50+ NFA items. Seems like he may have cancelled a wedding or something and decided to splurge on himself

Still interested to see if he meant anything by audit or if he just threw that out there

View attachment 8091167

Yea, I read all of that and I don’t know what he is referring to when he says, “lawful American citizen…” and how that concerns the ATF. Just not enough information to know exactly what all this means.

 

[PropWash]

I just asked him under his post. Will report back with any answers

Okay, he replied to your question about what he means by audit. (See attachment).

If you don’t mind ask him these questions:

Does he have an FFL/SOT license?

What does he mean by "are we hassling me again, or did you update my file over there finally to say 'lawful American citizen'? If hasslin, well good luck with that?” Does he mean the ATF is hassling him because of his ethnicity or what?

From how he replied to you I don’t think he has an FFL/SOT.

 

[southernpew]

Okay, he replied to your question about what he means by audit. (See attachment).

If you don’t mind ask him these questions:

Does he have an FFL/SOT license?

What does he mean by "are we hassling me again, or did you update my file over there finally to say 'lawful American citizen'? If hasslin, well good luck with that?” Does he mean the ATF is hassling him because of his ethnicity or what?

From how he replied to you I don’t think he has an FFL/SOT.

 

[FuhQ]

Here’s something that has never happened a true eform batch approval of 20 cans! This occurred yesterday, March 6th, longest wait in the group is 262 days down to 12 days. It has been verified by the moderator of the subreddit. Very detailed post with no special circumstances. Simply incredible… (See attachment at the bottom of this post).

Why can’t that shit happen to mine! I got 4 in the hopper…

 

[db2000]

2 waiting since August. E-file. Last January it was here by May.

 

[30calDeath]

2 waiting since August. E-file. Last January it was here by May.

Same here, well 2 waiting since very beginning of August as well. I'm guessing mid April to end of April?

 

[Fmilby]

Same here, well 2 waiting since very beginning of August as well. I'm guessing mid April to end of April?

I have one from 8/22/22 and I’m not getting my hopes up till late may it looks like

 

[Fmilby]

I have one from 8/22/22 and I’m not getting my hopes up till late may it looks like

My number is 202271xxxx is yours in that area?

 

[Bluedog82]

My number is 202271xxxx is yours in that area?

Mine from 8/25 is 2022725xxx

 

[GiveNoQuarter]

I've been waiting on one item for 172 days. Other than that, nothing to add.

 

[southernpew]

Update, here is the *20 can approval* and his 375 integral suppressed lever gun build

 

[FuhQ]

I need some specs on that lever gun build… Is that a Browning BLR action?

 

[PropWash]

View attachment 8091363

So 20 Can Man has no FFL, he‘s been visited by ATF before, pre-covid. ATF asks him, “…a series of attempted entrapping questions about other concerns…” And He “…follows the law…”

Hmm…. this is a mystery. There is more of a backstory here and we still don’t know what it is. Does 20 Can Man, share the same last name and/or is related to someone with suspected or known criminal activity or…??

Well maybe you could ask him two final questions, what is the exact build sheet of that integrally suppressed lever gun (I would really like to know, lol) and when the ATF visited pre-covid, did he also have high number of NFA items approved, if so how many? If he did have a similar high number of NFA items approved then that would indicate there is a high number threshold, when approved it flags the person for review and a possible visit and during the visit maybe it is standard protocol to ask some probing questions that would make any reasonable person, uncomfortable.

 

[PropWash]

Why can’t that shit happen to mine! I got 4 in the hopper…

I hear you FQ, and I get it.

Here’s an example. You decide to go to the grocery store to buy just four apples nothing else. Do you pick up all four at once, pay and walk to your vehicle and get on with your day? OR Do you buy one apple, pay, carry it to your vehicle go back and repeat the same moronic time wasting process three more times?

There is a bright side to this, look at the attachment. Another person was approved yesterday with exactly four cans in the hopper; 243 days is the longest down to the shortest time of 137 days. Also, another post of a guy getting batch approved 11 cans in this same NFA subreddit thread a little further back.

We need more supporting batch approvals though to really have confidence in the data that this is a trend.

 

[nikonNUT]

Tac-Sol X-Ring TSS
Check Cashed 06/10/2022
Approved 03/08/2023 @ 9:12 A.M
271 days

 

[PropWash]

I need some specs on that lever gun build… Is that a Browning BLR action?

Yea, I would like to know the exact build sheet of this too. Caliber etc. and what it looks like with the suppressor cover on.

 

[FuhQ]

I hear you FQ, and I get it.

Here’s an example. You decide to go to the grocery store to buy just four apples nothing else. Do you pick up all four at once, pay and walk to your vehicle and get on with your day? OR Do you buy one apple, pay, carry it to your vehicle go back and repeat the same moronic time wasting process three more times?

There is a bright side to this, look at the attachment. Another person was approved yesterday with exactly four cans in the hopper; 243 days is the longest down to the shortest time of 137 days. Also, another post of a guy getting batch approved 11 cans in this same NFA subreddit thread a little further back.

We need more supporting batch approvals though to really have confidence in the data that this is a trend.

While I do fully understand we’re taking about the lame duck bureaucracy that is our federal government, in all of their “efficient glory”. I can only hope they decided to start doing something positive for us as well.

The last 10+ times I’ve called to check on cans over the last year or so, I’ve always mentioned a possible batch approval. I hope others have been discussing this with them, as well. The more people mentioning batch approvals when they call, the more likely they’re going to seriously look into it.

I seriously hope they decided to look into implementing the batch procedure. It would make their jobs much easier and efficient and wait times would drop significantly.

 

[hlee]

In any bureaucracy, efficiency is contradictory to job security…

 

[southernpew]

what is the exact build sheet of that integrally suppressed lever gun (I would really like to know, lol) and when the ATF visited pre-covid, did he also have high number of NFA items approved, if so how many?

Not sure on build sheet for lever gun, Ill DM him. It is chambered in 375 Raptor

1st NFA visit***

 

[nikonNUT]

So 20 Can Man has no FFL, he‘s been visited by ATF before, pre-covid. ATF asks him, “…a series of attempted entrapping questions about other concerns…” And He “…follows the law…”

Hmm…. this is a mystery. There is more of a backstory here and we still don’t know what it is. Does 20 Can Man, share the same last name and/or is related to someone with suspected or known criminal activity or…??

Well maybe you could ask him two final questions, what is the exact build sheet of that integrally suppressed lever gun (I would really like to know, lol) and when the ATF visited pre-covid, did he also have high number of NFA items approved, if so how many? If he did have a similar high number of NFA items approved then that would indicate there is a high number threshold, when approved it flags the person for review and a possible visit and during the visit maybe it is standard protocol to ask some probing questions that would make any reasonable person, uncomfortable.

My guess? If he is in a border state "Fast and Furious" comes to mind. There is a video on YouTube of a fella that was visited by the AFT because of numerous red flags (Paying cash, multiples, etc.) and they thought they had him dead to rights for trafficking to the cartels. Turns out others at his LGS were and he was buying a shit ton of guns in the same time frame...

 

[PropWash]

In any bureaucracy, efficiency is contradictory to job security…

I don’t know that I agree with the job security argument.

It seems clear they are hiring more examiners from the NFA subreddit where there is a library of known examiner signatures. If NFA would go fully live on batch approvals, queue times would decrease dramatically, maybe to the point examiners have idle time - I don’t think job security is going to be an issue for these poorly utilized employees.

 

[PropWash]

My guess? If he is in a border state "Fast and Furious" comes to mind. There is a video on YouTube of a fella that was visited by the AFT because of numerous red flags (Paying cash, multiples, etc.) and they thought they had him dead to rights for trafficking to the cartels. Turns out others at his LGS were and he was buying a shit ton of guns in the same time frame...

You know your reasoning makes the most sense: border state, multiples etc. now match that up with the answer 20 Can Man gave:

[He bought] “Multiple of the same type of pistols and rifles….plunked down for some stock sig pistols and entry level rifles. Had Em all come in at once.” (see post above 10035)

 

[PropWash]

Not sure on build sheet for lever gun, Ill DM him. It is chambered in 375 Raptor

1st NFA visit***

View attachment 8091962

At the very least he should think about getting some new friends since they have no issue using his Gucci stuff and letting him buy more guns for them to use. I hope he isn’t buying the ammo for them to shoot too.

I think NikonNUT has the best reasoning of why this guy got the ATF visit.

 

[hlee]

At the very least he should think about getting some new friends since they have no issue using his Gucci stuff and letting him buy more guns for them to use. I hope he isn’t buying the ammo for them to shoot too.

I think NikonNUT has the best reasoning of why this guy got the ATF visit.

No shit. Who buys guns do their friends to shoot? You wanna shoot? Great. Bring your own shit. No shit, no shoot.

 

[Nbleak21]

I had three more clear today (from a total of 5 certified the same day), so I've got one more outstanding.
Looks like they haven't adopted Batch processing across the board; otherwise, they would have likely picked up my last one as well.

Note: 2 were cleared by one inspector a minute apart, another was cleared by a different inspector 3 hrs later, and neither of today's inspectors was the same inspector who cleared one of mine from a week ago.

And now for the good stuff:

Submission Date: 06/08/2022
Approved Date: 03/09/2023
Control Number: 20225535XX
Can: Dead Air Sandman L
Wait: 272 Days

Submission Date: 06/08/2022
Approved Date: 03/09/2023
Control Number: 20225535XX
Can: Dead Air Primal
Wait: 272 Days

Submission Date: 06/08/2022
Approved Date: 03/09/2023
Control Number: 20225535XX
Can: Dead Air SMS762-MIL (Sandman S Mil Contract Overrun)
Wait: 272 Days

Still waiting for Ghost to clear, and then I'll be good until I figure out what I want to roll with for my 6cm, and 7prc builds Muhahahaha.

 

[Nbleak21]

No shit. Who buys guns do their friends to shoot? You wanna shoot? Great. Bring your own shit. No shit, no shoot.

This guy, me, right here... does. Guilty as charged.

 

[hollowoutadime]

Submission Date: 06/16/2022
Approved Date: 03/10/2023
Control Number: 2022573xxx
SubGun
Wait: 267 Days

 

[sam4886]

Well fuck. I'm still waiting on a 6/6.

 

[Bluedog82]

Well fuck. I'm still waiting on a 6/6.

 

[jwhjwh54]

Well fuck. I'm still waiting on a 6/6.

Called for the first time I thought I was 5/31 but they Rec 6/4. My stuff always takes longer

 

[TigernLionGSP]

update. they forgot to sign it. WTF

going on two months waiting for them to fix the form. still not signed WTF

 

[Arc Light]

going on two months waiting for them to fix the form. still not signed WTF

Your dealer didn't sign it? WTF kind of dealer doesn't do the most basic thing on any application?

 

[Bluedog82]

going on two months waiting for them to fix the form. still not signed WTF

That’s some BS and totally unacceptable. I’d be in there tomorrow demanding that they sign it in front of me

 

[TigernLionGSP]

Your dealer didn't sign it? WTF kind of dealer doesn't do the most basic thing on any application?

the dealer signed it. it's the ATF who didn't sign the form. but they did put the stamp on it

 

[southernpew]

the dealer signed it. it's the ATF who didn't sign the form. but they did put the stamp on it

Is this an efile? What ATF signature are you looking for? How do you know they "put the stamp on it"? So it came back approved and you now have it in hand?

 

[TigernLionGSP]

Is this an efile? What ATF signature are you looking for? How do you know they "put the stamp on it"? So it came back approved and you now have it in hand?

e file picture of the stamp but the box is not checked

 

[sam4886]

Certified 6/6/23 approved today, 3/11/23.

 

[southernpew]

e file picture of the stamp but the box is not checked

What "efile picture"?

When your FFL submits your Form 1/Form 4 (eFile) you will receive "eForms Application Submission Notification" email from [email protected]. This email contains your control number 2032XXXXXX

It will contain a PDF file of your submission and will say in black letters like a watermark across it "SUBMITTED"
This is the only thing you receive until you get an approved email or disapproved email from the same account.

This is why I am asking you what picture of the stamp? You won't get a physical stamp unless you paper file. And you won't get a digital stamp unless you're approved (which they will email you)

I don't understand your problem?

 

[zeroz]

There is an approved/ denied box on the form. Sounds like the AFT didn't check the box and maybe the dealer wont release it. Thats kinda bullshit. It came back approved and has a stamp, give me my shit and you hash it out with AFT if you care.