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CAN and the wait beginsBatch approval. All are form 4 via trusts. All were approved at the same time.
Group 1
Thunderbeast G2 Ultra 9 30cal
Thunderbeast G2 Ultra 7 6.5mm
Thunderbeast 22 Takedown
Pending: 3/19/2021
Approved: 2/22/2022
Notified: 3/8/2022
Stamp Received: 3/11/2022
Standardized wait: 340 days
Group 2
Dead Air Wolfman 9mm
Pending: 5/6/2021
Approved: 2/22/2022
Notified: 3/8/2022
Stamp Received: 3/11/2022
Standardized wait: 292 days
So it was clear that when I called the ATF, they had all been approved 14 days prior. Make of it what you will.
New issue is that both of the G2 Ultras are part of the recall, so now I need to send those back to TBAC for inspection.
I tried to get the FFL to send them to TBAC for inspection many months ago, but they were adamant that this was not possible (regardless of what TBAC said). I was pounding my head against a wall with them. I think they just didn't want to deal with it. So I just decided to deal with it myself once they did show up. I can have fun with the Wolfman and 22 Takedown while waiting a bit longer on the other two.
ETW
Group 1
Thunderbeast G2 Ultra 9 30cal
Thunderbeast G2 Ultra 7 6.5mm
Thunderbeast 22 Takedown
Pending: 3/19/2021
Approved: 2/22/2022
Notified: 3/8/2022
Stamp Received: 3/11/2022
Standardized wait: 340 days
Group 2
Dead Air Wolfman 9mm
Pending: 5/6/2021
Approved: 2/22/2022
Notified: 3/8/2022
Stamp Received: 3/11/2022
Standardized wait: 292 days
So I really didn't want to call and check on the status of mine until I was seeing approvals for items with similar pending dates as mine. So I called the ATF on the morning of 3/8. I was very polite and asked to check on the status of all four. The person on the other end was not rude, but was short and to the point. I provided my information, he looked it up and said all four were "Pending". Later that same day, the FFL called and said that my stamps were in.
So it was clear that when I called the ATF, they had all been approved 14 days prior. Make of it what you will.
New issue is that both of the G2 Ultras are part of the recall, so now I need to send those back to TBAC for inspection.
I tried to get the FFL to send them to TBAC for inspection many months ago, but they were adamant that this was not possible (regardless of what TBAC said). I was pounding my head against a wall with them. I think they just didn't want to deal with it. So I just decided to deal with it myself once they did show up. I can have fun with the Wolfman and 22 Takedown while waiting a bit longer on the other two.ETW
A PA shop, Bunker Guns, posted two Forrm 4 Efiles that were approved in under 80 days on facebook. Both were digitally signed 12/23/21, and approved today.
Just saw on reddit (r/NFA) a guy got his in 77 days with no rush.
I submitted my eform 4 on 11 Jan. This is exciting news.
The folks who filed paper form 4s a year ago are about to be big mad if these eforms start getting cranked out.
The folks who filed paper form 4s a year ago are about to be big mad if these eforms start getting cranked out.
100%. As someone who has been waiting 11 months now, I hope your fingers poke through the paper when you wipe.
The most optimal solution to this problem is to buy more suppressors and efile them.
I am at 9 months and 5 months, and I add diarrhea to this wish.
I'm at 10 & 11 months, and those will be my last 2 paper Form-4's pending.
My next 2 cans will be on eForms once I get the cash for the stamps and trusts. Already bought the cans, they're on their way to the SOT right now...Just gonna have to hold onto them for a while until I get the cash for the stamps. Luckily, they have a range, and know me well, so they're cool with it. They understand that life happens.
Me and my brother in law are sitting on day 352 for our first suppressors. I'm waiting till the 23rd to call again to check the status. See if I can get more out of them when they see the checks were cashed March 23, 2021.
I'm right behind you. Check cashed on March 25, 2021 for a Dead Air Mask. Damn. This has been much longer than expected.
My stamp came in today. This is my 3rd suppressor, took about a year. Too damn long and the inefficiency of this entire system is laughable.
Maybe I will take a ride on the E-File machine and see how bad that is next.
Maybe I will take a ride on the E-File machine and see how bad that is next.
Not rooting against anyone to have their forms processed ASAP, but this is total BS if eforms start piling in before pending paper F4’s. Especially if the ATF is threatening a minimum 1yr wait for anyone that cancels to resubmit via eform
They should have processed ALL paper Form-4's BEFORE the eForms, because I agree... I've been waiting a year from purchase date for my first Sandman-S, and my 2nd Sandman-S is at 11 months. And there's people getting eForms back already? That's bullshit. I've bought 5 cans in the last 1.5 years...3 of the 5 are home, but the last 2 paper forms are still pending, and taking forever.
I feel like they abandoned the papers and are celebrating the shorter line in the efile department. 12 months since purchase is creeping up on me, my cousin is at 12 months since check was cashed
Starting to wonder if that was complete bullshit (1 year wait 'threat'). I put in another Form 4 (paper) on Dec 9th. A week later, they announce e-forms. I was already a week into being cashed at that point, so I'm at the very tail end. At this going rate, thousands will get their cans via e-file, before I will get mine. Good on them, but they should clear out the remaining paper forms first.
Ever been waiting in line and see someone walk up to the front, cut in line and get their shit before you? Yeah... feels like that.
Seeing a ton of approved eform 4s coming back from early Jan submittals (reddit). Looks like they're around 60-70 days for some of the initial submissions.
Whine, eForm, cry, unfair, blah blah blah. If you would have accepted an 11 month wait for a paper form 4 in the absence of the eForm system, you should be fine with the wait in the presence of the system. You knew the wait when you applied, and the eform system isn’t making that wait longer.
And, yeah, I’ve got apps stuck in both systems.
And, yeah, I’ve got apps stuck in both systems.
Actually the average wait time was 6-8 months when I bought my last 2... The influx of Form-4's has caused a massive backlog, so no, I didn't sign up for a year long wait. And they still should have prioritized all the people waiting on paper forms for exponentially longer wait times, then the eForms.
There are number of ways to look at this. A team developed and implemented the efile system and switched it on, and this has delayed the paper forms that were in process at that time. Should they have shelved it, and put a moratorium on new paper forms until they worked through all of them, then switched eforms on? That would have cause months of interruption in approvals, and tens of thousands of people get nothing during that time until the efile approvals started coming in. That would have been a bad call imo.
So the Atf switches eforms on, and two teams work the systems in parallel. So the efile team starts getting approvals back. Should they shelve those, and go help the paper team, or do they send them through to the dealers/owners? Even if there aren’t two teams, and examiners get a mix of filings, the question remains. I say send them through. Ultimately its more approvals over a given span of time. At it’s heart, this is not much different than the paper filings, a significant number of people seem to jump the line with the paper system as it is. Three years ago I got 7 personal cans back in one day, which were all over the map with regard to check cashed dates. Many of them were sub 3 months in. One examiner grabbed every submission I had and approved them. How many people did I jump? Must have been tens of thousands.
Ultimately this is a one year problem, (current paper approval time)as efiles should vastly outnumber paper filings at this point.
Maybe the most important thing is we're coming up on the 90 day window from the time efile went live. Silencershop alone had done near 50k efiles by the beginning of march. We should be seeing a tidal wave of approvals, but we’re not. Are some coming back? Sure, but nowhere near what one would expect if 90 days was a target for the atf.
In a few months, or perhaps this time next year, we’ll know a lot more. For those with paper filings, you knew your wait could be all over the map. Nothing has changed. Keep on buying, because NFA stuff is cool.
So the Atf switches eforms on, and two teams work the systems in parallel. So the efile team starts getting approvals back. Should they shelve those, and go help the paper team, or do they send them through to the dealers/owners? Even if there aren’t two teams, and examiners get a mix of filings, the question remains. I say send them through. Ultimately its more approvals over a given span of time. At it’s heart, this is not much different than the paper filings, a significant number of people seem to jump the line with the paper system as it is. Three years ago I got 7 personal cans back in one day, which were all over the map with regard to check cashed dates. Many of them were sub 3 months in. One examiner grabbed every submission I had and approved them. How many people did I jump? Must have been tens of thousands.
Ultimately this is a one year problem, (current paper approval time)as efiles should vastly outnumber paper filings at this point.
Maybe the most important thing is we're coming up on the 90 day window from the time efile went live. Silencershop alone had done near 50k efiles by the beginning of march. We should be seeing a tidal wave of approvals, but we’re not. Are some coming back? Sure, but nowhere near what one would expect if 90 days was a target for the atf.
In a few months, or perhaps this time next year, we’ll know a lot more. For those with paper filings, you knew your wait could be all over the map. Nothing has changed. Keep on buying, because NFA stuff is cool.
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Just a few weeks short of a year from my check cashed date (4-9-21) on a paper form 4. E-filed a form 4 in February. Will be curious to see which one I get 1st. Hopefully the paper form 4 but either way I need to be patient.
My last 2 paper Form4's are pending, the first one of the 2 was 4/9/21 cash date, as well. The 2nd was 5/10/21. Hoping they do a batch approval. I'll call tomorrow and find out what's going on. Not in a hurry, just getting tired of waiting when it shouldn't take this long. Already been through it 3 times, but still it shouldn't take a damn year for a simple background check and approval.
No idea If it’s true but I’d understood the 1 year delay if you pulled a paper form was because the paper form wouldn’t actually get pulled until it was up for approval anyways, which could be up to a year out? Although with various steps in the approval process that’s slightly suspect. But I can imagine they didn’t want to waste resources pulling paper forms…?
Called today both still pending. I probably got put back on the bottom of the stack.
After a 33 minute wait on the phone, I found out my 2 Sandman-S cans are both still pending (4/9 & 5/10 cash dates)... She looked and said that they still haven't even been assigned to an examiner. WTF! She said she wouldn't start worrying until 12-13 months. This is STUPID! How are some people already getting their stamps back in large batches, including some paper Form 4's from as recent as a few months ago, and mine have been sitting for almost a year and STILL not assigned to anyone! 
Nah, most paper forms are 12-13 months right now.After a 33 minute wait on the phone, I found out my 2 Sandman-S cans are both still pending (4/9 & 5/10 cash dates)... She looked and said that they still haven't even been assigned to an examiner. WTF! She said she wouldn't start worrying until 12-13 months. This is STUPID! How are some people already getting their stamps back in large batches, including some paper Form 4's from as recent as a few months ago, and mine have been sitting for almost a year and STILL not assigned to anyone!
Not uncommonAfter a 33 minute wait on the phone, I found out my 2 Sandman-S cans are both still pending (4/9 & 5/10 cash dates)... She looked and said that they still haven't even been assigned to an examiner. WTF! She said she wouldn't start worrying until 12-13 months. This is STUPID! How are some people already getting their stamps back in large batches, including some paper Form 4's from as recent as a few months ago, and mine have been sitting for almost a year and STILL not assigned to anyone!
We’re getting paper stamps back damn near a year to the day, have yet to see any efiles back.
Ah, I don't know that I would call it acceptance....more like absolutely no other choice at the time. And that does not, IMO, in any way modify my view that the ATF (well, the entire Fed gov) is fucked up and absolute fucked (again IMO) this roll out up and frankly, I don't think I have to justify my ire at them to anyone.
No, but that's not the only way to have skinned this cat....but it is the gov so fucking it up has zero consequences.
What two teams...do you mean half of the ATF examiners that weren't getting shit out in anything approach reasonable time when ALL of the examiners were working paper forms. Those two teams?
IMO, this is how they should have done it and I believe that any reasonably bright middle schooler could have come up with this:
1. Continue to process already submitted paper forms.
2. Turn on the e-form system and begin accepting e-form applications
3. After #2 plus time to wring out the eventual gov software fuck ups, stop accepting any more paper forms.
4. Clear out all legacy paper forms with all examiners working on them, put the submitted e-forms into a queue, and when all paper forms are cleared begin to process e-forms. E-form initial approval times will be a bit slow (but certainly no slower than current travesty of paper form approval times) at first do to the backlogged queue, but if the e-form is more efficient (as claimed) then they will work that back log down and we will have a stable approval cycle in...whatever they are capable of...3-4 months?
Its really not that hard to come up with a reasonable and smooth transition plan....as if the gov actually ever fucking generated reasonable plans at all.
If I sound a bit abrasive, its not ire at any members as much as its just absolute frustration with this process and gov in general. Got my dander up a bit today, I guess.
Cheers
I’m 4/6 cash date on 2 and they haven’t been assigned either as of last weekAfter a 33 minute wait on the phone, I found out my 2 Sandman-S cans are both still pending (4/9 & 5/10 cash dates)... She looked and said that they still haven't even been assigned to an examiner. WTF! She said she wouldn't start worrying until 12-13 months. This is STUPID! How are some people already getting their stamps back in large batches, including some paper Form 4's from as recent as a few months ago, and mine have been sitting for almost a year and STILL not assigned to anyone!
. I saw someone posted that they called and were told still pending and then same day received a call from dealer that it was there. So maybe they aren’t really looking anything up for us sometimes when we callSeveral people in Facebook groups have been posting within the last 2 weeks of e-form approvals.
It would be difficult to prove “half weren't doing shit” before. We can speculate all day but thats all it is. The industry was averaging solid 9 month approvals up to about October. Thats not great, but MUST be viewed in the context of vastly increased suppressor sales.
We’re in your #3 time window now, so who’s to say they dont do your #4? Remember, the current approval rate among efiled f4’s is a trickle at best, not vast swaths of people. In other words, not different than the variance of approval times when it was just paper. There was always one in the crowd who had some stupid short approval time. The mere implementation of efile (your #2) seems to have caused the 3 month extra delay. All the customer approvals I expected to get back in november/december never came, and began arriving in feb. Inevitable if you want efile f4’s. Im not saying theyre knocking it out of the park, im saying its rolling out more or less as id expect it to.
ah, I don't think that's what I said.
What I wrote was:
Emphasis on "ALL". There are not two whole teams, right? I mean they didn't double the number of examiners to make up two teams, did they? Very doubtful.
That means that they took the existing team....who were incredibly delinquent when ALL of them were working paper forms...and divided them up. Less examiners working paper forms that are still be accepted.
So, what is the result....at least paper form's delays getting even longer.
I'm sorry, but in my view this is total BS on the ATF's part and I don't see any evidence of a rational transition plan. Yes, we are at stage 3 in my little list, maybe. But, they are still accepting paper forms and still increasing the paper form backlog. I submit that they should stop taking paper forms (at some point...so, if we are at #3, then we are there, right?), ALL examiners should be working on clearing the egregious and unjustifiable paper backlog, queue the e-file submittals, and get on them after they clean up the warm mess they have with paper forms.
And I don't see that happening at all. What it appears to me is that they are still taking paper forms and processing them with less people than before thus increasing wait times. To me, this is very typical gov behavior that would never fly in commercial industry.
In my view, there is absolutely no excuse for them not prioritizing woefully delayed paper forms for any reason but in particular not to work on very recently received e-forms.
Just my opinion and we all know what those are worth! haha Have a great day.
I did misread what you wrote. You made made the same point i made in my original post though (last week). The two teams were formed by splitting the examiners which caused the delay. I don’t think they need to kill the paper form. Efile will do that for them. Safe to say that almost nobody is doing paper filings right now in any significant number. The only real delta between you and I is you think they should hold the e-file approvals and send everybody back to paper approvals to clear the backlog. I don’t totally disagree with that, but we’re not seeing the tidal wave of e-file approvals we should be seeing right now, and I think it needs more work. There is an incentive structure here for them to make it work, since it should make their jobs easier. I think it’ll probably be completely spun up right around the time the paper forms begin to run out, which is xmas time give or take. Speculation of course.
And that's because we are both absolutely brilliant human beings!
Yeah, I kind of thought so too. Great minds think alike and all of that haha
My local FFL I deal with (Kat is great) has done one e-file so far and its from my very good friend @GBMaryland. She said that filing it was sort of straight forward without some of the issues that people seemed to have with SS filings early on.
Now, if @GBMaryland gets his suppressor out of jail before mine, which has been locked up now for 11 months, I'm going to his house and rob him! haha ( @GBMaryland - joking of course...so please unload that AR! I will not rob you...I will just resent you for the rest of my life LOL)
Take care and thanks for the replies. There really isn't anything I can do about this crap but venting on an internet board does seem to bleed off a bit of frustration.
Cheers
I think you’re on pretty solid ground, @GBMaryland aint got shit. In no time you’ll be razzing him for not buying his can last spring.And that's because we are both absolutely brilliant human beings!
Yeah, I kind of thought so too. Great minds think alike and all of that haha
My local FFL I deal with (Kat is great) has done one e-file so far and its from my very good friend @GBMaryland. She said that filing it was sort of straight forward without some of the issues that people seemed to have with SS filings early on.
Now, if @GBMaryland gets his suppressor out of jail before mine, which has been locked up now for 11 months, I'm going to his house and rob him! haha ( @GBMaryland - joking of course...so please unload that AR! I will not rob you...I will just resent you for the rest of my life LOL)
Take care and thanks for the replies. There really isn't anything I can do about this crap but venting on an internet board does seem to bleed off a bit of frustration.
Cheers
I bought a 6.5 TBAC Ultra 9 - 12 months ago... and it's still in jail...
Then there are the other 4 I've got that are still in jail....
That'll put me at about 10 suppressors total. Basically, I have a bunch of steel suppressors, and now I'm going to have a bunch of Ti suppressors.
Then there are the other 4 I've got that are still in jail....
That'll put me at about 10 suppressors total. Basically, I have a bunch of steel suppressors, and now I'm going to have a bunch of Ti suppressors.
My ffl that I get cans from just showed me a 75 day efile form 4 approval last week. Not bad (for a rights infringement)
@GBMaryland @Supersubes
I think its a Biscuit he filed the e-file form for. I'm sitting here at my desk trying to forge a letter from GB to Kat telling her to just give ME that suppressor when its approved. But I can't even draw a stick figure much less a decent forgery.
@GBMaryland - ah, what's the daily rental rate for one of your 30 cal suppressors! hahaha I asked Kat the other day when picking up my Altus BA if I could have a conjugal visit...all I got was laughter. haha
Have a great day guys.
I think its a Biscuit he filed the e-file form for. I'm sitting here at my desk trying to forge a letter from GB to Kat telling her to just give ME that suppressor when its approved. But I can't even draw a stick figure much less a decent forgery.
@GBMaryland - ah, what's the daily rental rate for one of your 30 cal suppressors! hahaha I asked Kat the other day when picking up my Altus BA if I could have a conjugal visit...all I got was laughter. haha
Have a great day guys.
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