Give me till this evening when I can type on a real keyboard. But the difference between a Kibler and a traditions is the difference between chicken salad and chicken. Shit!
That’s an LBJ quote by the way. Cheers.
Ok... so the kits. I've not built a Traditions, but have handled a lot of them. They are very functional. They will go boom. They are accurate. The Hawken kits are 'marginally Hawken-like' in their execution. I have a .32 Squirrel rifle (not a kit) that I love for Primative Biathlon as it's light and fun to shoot and always goes bang. But the reality is that they are chunky. Parts don't 'look' authentic. The 'Kentucky' rifle is totally not authentic as it's a two-piece stock with a spacer. The front of the stock just hangs off the front of the gun. And their lines are merely adequate. The locks are 'cast and stamped' parts with some color case hardening added for... What? Original locks weren't color case hardened. So... bling. Wood, last, is often birch or a very low grade of maple. Or ash. Not a quality curly maple. On the plus side... they are cheap! $400 or so for a kit. And if you are talented, you can make a really cool rifle out of one (a Hawken, at least) by really going to town reshaping, putting on a proper patch box, getting rid of cheap brass parts, etc. But you will be a LONG time getting it to be... a Traditions with a big Italian Logo stamped on it, etc. (I think they are Italian or Spanish.)
Don't get me wrong. Traditions is a great company. They make a fine utilitarian product that fills a huge need for a great inexpensive rifle for hunters and shooters who want to enjoy black powder without going 'whole hog' on a true contemporary Long Rifle.
Kibler's kits are totally the most incredible kits out there. They have brought CNC technology to kits as well as styling. The inletting is so good that parts are already fit when you open up the shipping crate. They offer wood options (the Windrunner I just got after waiting 6 months) is 4X fancy exhibition walnut. Go big or go home! The fit of the hardware is unreal! Barrel channel is perfect. And where they really shine is their locks. These are all CNC made of finest materials. The exterior is grey but will take a brown finish beautifully. The inside of the lock is like something from a fine English Double. Again, CNC made, perfectly hardened. And they have done things like put in roller bearings on the moving parts, so they are smooth and the lock time is incredibly fast. Frizzens are perfectly hardened and spark great. And the lines are traditional! The Southern Mountain RIfle is... just like a simple working man's rifle from the Western Carolina/TN/KY region. The patch box cover (wood) slides in perfectly right out of the box! There has never been a kit like that. But also if you want to add carving, wire work, inlays, fancy patchbox etc. it is an amazing canvas. Once finished, stained, browned, you will have a gun that LOOKS like it should. And has parts that look and feel like they were made by the finest gunsmiths of the 19th Century.
Last, the Kibler is almost infinitely customizable. You can spec. out your rifle the way you want it. Plain or fancy. Plain furniture and fancy wood. Skinny barrel or thick barrel. Swamped barrel... which no kit does! And when you get your kit, you will assemble and finish it. You don't have to do all the complex inletting, etc. It's done for you. You can concentrate on decoration and finish.
Kibler, IMHO, is revolutionizing kits. Well, has revolutionized kits. Downside... they cost a bit more. And they are worth every penny of the 'more' because of the work already done. Especially if you are a novice builder. Other downside.... 6+ month wait depending on the kit. BUT if you watch their site, they have kits come available almost all the time. People who back out. Over-Runs, Sales, etc. So you can watch for something with a 'Buy it Now' and do really well on it.
Last, there are 'kits' available from Track of the Wolf and others. These often have un-fettled parts, roughly finished stocks, etc. Nothing wrong with these. But they take patience, tools and expertise to assemble. Butt plate fitting alone can consume a day or more... and wood stocks require major rasp and file work.
There is also The Rifle Shoppe which makes casting sets and wood pieces (and locks) for some really interesting rifles. My Hall and Ferguson kit came from them. As did my 'grenade/Bombe' launcher and Wall gun from the Revolutionary war. The downsides are that the castings are crude as heck. They require a LOT of machining, fettling, fitting, etc. Unless you are a real expert, don't even think of ordering a lock parts set. Order an assembled lock. The other downside is that they take years to get your kit. Their communications are appalling. And even when you 'can' get ahold of them... it's rare that they follow through with what they promised. I am still waiting on a French Indian Wars kit I ordered and paid for 2 years ago. A simple kit that 'should' be on the shelf. They are nice people. But are sort of better at casting things than running a business. And doubt I'll order another kit from them after my F/I gun comes in.
I can say more about buying contemporary rifle from a master builder if you want... but best generally to buy on secondary market. Nice guns come up on Gunbroker and auctions all the time. But if you want something special from a specific builder (Herschel House, Marvin Kemper, Ed Parry, etc) stand in line and expect to pay seriouse money. But the investment will be totally worth it because you will get what YOU want. Just like ordering one from a master builder in 1750 - 1850... the golden age of the Pennsylvania Rifle. But before going this route, I'd suggest looking at a lot of guns to decide what appeals to you. Because you are buying a piece of functional art. You want something that you love to look at and hold... for your investment.
Hope this helps! Nothing wrong with Traditions kits and finished guns. They are what they are. But if you really want a kit that will be worth your time as well as your money, check out a Kibler. I am just blown away by them.
Cheers,
Sirhr
