FYI SIG Cross recall.

[Halfnutz]

Safety Recall Notice: SIG SAUER Cross Bolt-Action Rifles Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2020/11/safety-recall-notice-sig-sauer-cross-bolt-action-rifles/#ixzz6fOp7wAme U.S.A. –-(AmmoLand.com)- Today Sig Sauer, Inc. is announcing a safety recall for the CROSS Bolt-Action Rifle, and consumers should immediately discontinue use of the rifle. This recall applies to all CROSS Bolt-Action rifles currently manufactured. Sig Sauer has viewed an online video that presents a single CROSS Bolt-Action Rifle with a potential safety concern. This gun has been returned to Sig Sauer and upon evaluation, it has been confirmed that the rifle exhibited a delayed discharge after the trigger was pulled. Sig Sauer has decided to issue a safety recall in order to implement a modification to the firing action to address this potential safety concern. To register for the recall process please visit sigsauer.com/crossrecallor call Sig Sauer Customer Service at 603-610-3000, option 1. Following registration, Sig Sauer will further communicate with you to arrange for the return of your rifle to Sig Sauer for safety improvement. All shipment and replacement costs will be covered by Sig Sauer. Sig Sauer is committed to providing the highest quality, industry-leading firearms in the marketplace and is requesting that consumers take immediate action and follow the recall process as described.​

 

[ffjoey]

Man, Sig USA. can’t put out a firearm without a recall quickly following

 

[brianf]

wonder if its a initial batch of components or a design flaw

 

[ForgeValley]

Using your customers as beta testers is a fools game. Good job Sig.

 

[Halfnutz]

You guys act like this has happened before... oh wait.

MCX,P320,P238...

 

[THEIS]

Using your customers as beta testers is a fools game. Good job Sig.

Hi,

Well honestly it hasn't hurt Sig yet, lol.
Customers still knock doors down to get in line for their upcoming products.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[ffjoey]

Hi,

Well honestly it hasn't hurt Sig yet, lol.
Customers still knock doors down to get in line for their upcoming products.

Sincerely,
Theis

You are right. Plenty of people drinking the Sig Kool Aid.

 

[THEIS]

wonder if its a initial batch of components or a design flaw

Hi,

Sig states they are making modifications to the firing action. That could be something as simple as firing pin spring, firing pin weight, etc etc.

But lets be completely honest here...
Companies can test and test and test their products but if you add all those hours up and then compare those hours to the utilization hours from 2000+ customers putting time on the products the manufacturers just cannot account for that much testing.

Guys at the manufacturing facility that know the product in and out get accustomed to an engrained bias of how something actually performs/functions. They know they product so well they can actually alleviate the issue without even knowing they are doing such.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[brianf]

welcome to the firearms industry as a whole

as long as they "make it right" it ok

how about do your homework and get it right first time out

not saying that a part wont wear out faster or something might break from hard use in the field, that happens


if you know your car mechanic by first name...isnt it time for a new mechanic

 

[Sniperwannabee]

You are right. Plenty of people drinking the Sig Kool Aid.

And Q hahah

 

[brianf]

Hi,

Sig states they are making modifications to the firing action. That could be something as simple as firing pin spring, firing pin weight, etc etc.

But lets be completely honest here...
Companies can test and test and test their products but if you add all those hours up and then compare those hours to the utilization hours from 2000+ customers putting time on the products the manufacturers just cannot account for that much testing.

Guys at the manufacturing facility that know the product in and out get accustomed to an engrained bias of how something actually performs/functions. They know they product so well they can actually alleviate the issue without even knowing they are doing such.

Sincerely,
Theis

long story short i have had a few sports cars over the years

one was kind of special/rare when it came out (2014 if i rmember)

the ipad/radio fucking sucked, i actually used to punch it while in traffic

my daughter would laugh at me

they did their testing etc, but they only make about 1000 cars a year as a whole

there is only so much testing you can do or budget for before a new part is cheaper to install

by the way then never got it corrected ... 2 replacements (3 total)

 

[ffjoey]

And Q hahah

True

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

When I was coding, I personally tested every part of the application, in every scenario i could think of. Then i tested it as an application as a whole. (I was doing the work I was writing software for, so I knew the issues). Still, when i put the application out, issues were found by other users. No, it is not good that problems exist, but it is much better when the company admits the error and does its best to make the issue good

(As opposed to sweeping it under the rug)

 

[Halfnutz]

(As opposed to sweeping it under the rug)

Remington trigger?

 

[brazz04]

Not filling the action with dirt on purpose would help the situation as well. I’ll be more interested to see if the problem can be replicated than anything.

 

[ForgeValley]

Not filling the action with dirt on purpose would help the situation as well. I’ll be more interested to see if the problem can be replicated than anything.

They already did.

"This gun has been returned to Sig Sauer and upon evaluation, it has been confirmed that the rifle exhibited a delayed discharge after the trigger was pulled".

You can bet there would not be a recall if it hadn't been replicated and they know there is an engineering issue that impacts the system, not just that rifle.

 

[Tchitcherine]

Cost of recall vs. cost of more thorough testing. Low probability failures will occur. At least let them not be hazardous.

 

[brazz04]

Do you happen to know if that was before or after the dirt was removed from the rifle? Also would like to know if it’s been replicated on any other rifles.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Remington trigger?

I was thinking more of a certain early 1970’s economy vehicle.

 

[ForgeValley]

Cost of recall vs. cost of more thorough testing. Low probability failures will occur. At least let them not be hazardous.

This.

 

[midSCarolina]

I have a long list of highly respected companies that I have gotten products from in the past 2 years that should have never made it to the consumer. Some have been great to work with, others have not. It’s hard for me to be that mad at Sig since they are at least being very responsive. I may feel a different type of way if I were an early MCX or P320 or P365 owner but I’m not so my fuse may be a little longer than others

 

[ffjoey]

The problem with Sig is, there is a clear pattern of new product failure. Once in a while is one thing, but it’s pretty consistent with their products anymore.

 

[Stoweit]

I brought the possibility of problems of being an early adopter up in the Sig Cross thread, I was told that that Sigs earlier problems were over blown and unless I had a problem I shouldn't judge. Glad I didn't buy one, I'm sure they will take care of it and people will be happy in the end. I use to work in a bike shop, and one of our vendors was all ways trying to get new products out months before the fall release of new products by the industry in general. Warranty issues of some sort on most of that product, and customers were not happy. We eventually dropped the line, too much Beta testing by our customers. It was always innovative products, not enough real world testing. I hope everyone who bought the Cross will be taken care of quickly, just my .02.

 

[Namekagon]

Not filling the action with dirt on purpose would help the situation as well. I’ll be more interested to see if the problem can be replicated than anything.

@THEIS fills his actions with dirt on purpose! Maybe that's the secret.

 

[THEIS]

Do you happen to know if that was before or after the dirt was removed from the rifle? Also would like to know if it’s been replicated on any other rifles.

Hi,

Do you think Sig would get the suspected rifle back to them for evaluation and issue diagnosis only to them NOT clean the firearm before diagnosis begins??

They need it "factory" clean in order to manually and instrumentally check each part, then each sub assembly then the full assembly.

Based on the recall was actually activated it is pretty safe to assume that whatever the issue was that it is worth it to Sig to perform the same fix on all the rifles and not just the suspected one and call it good.

As I mentioned previously..it could be something as simple as a spring. Now I have no idea if Sig makes their own springs but I do know exactly that springs even from the best spring manufacturer can have "issues". I personally have 500 custom made plunger springs sitting in a drawer that it would be like playing Russian roulette with putting them under both plungers and have the plungers protrude the same distance even though the plungers are damn sure not different lengths, so.....

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[putput30]

Go to 28:00 in this video for the issue

 

[ma smith]

The problem with that video IMHO is the bolt lift [/close?] appears to be sling-shotting the striker assembly. This isn't really a good mode of failure for a "fire control group". Its not about how the failure happened or how it was discovered, its the type of failure.

 

[ma smith]

Notice there are no hands on the weapons control surfaces?

 

[ma smith]

Here is the second one...

 

[ToddM]

No one should be surprised with this from Sig, all of their recent releases have either needed a recall, or had major teething problems. 516/716, MCX, MPX, 320, P210, the list goes on. Heck the MPX is on like generation 4 with all the problems they have had. If you buy from Sig it's par for the course you may have issues. They change things fast, abandon current owners with lack of parts, and most of their products have issues, but their marketing is genius and the mall ninjas eat it up.

That said, it's the consumers fault, Sig is laughing all the way to the bank with guys lining up to buy many of their very overpriced guns, Sig would be crazy to change as long as sales are high. 716 is almost $3000 street price, that's more than a Seekins and approaching GPA 10 territory. People were fighting to pay $1400 for a metal framed 320. It's not a surprise considering the same guy is running the ship that almost put Kimber out of business with too many models and horrible QC. If Sig didn't have the mil contracts and a much more solid reputation they'd be the next Kimber.

 

[cliffy110]

Meh... big deal. I knew there was a chance of this when I bought it. I bought it anyway. I'm not convinced that this is or is not a real problem. It might just be some idiots filling the action with sand and Sig is bending over backwards to "fix" it which makes them look like a responsible manufacturer. Or it might be a real issue.

The thing is, they didn't just release these things into the wild without pretty extensive field testing. Have you guys seen how many real world reviews there were of the prototype rifles? There were a LOT of reputable writers shaking these things out over the past year and none experienced anything like that. That is why I will continue to use mine for the remainder of hunting season and then I'll send it back. I understand the risks and I'm a big boy.

 

[brazz04]

Couldn't agree more.

 

[hlee]

Don’t own a cross, but do own a 320. I didn’t see nutnfancy filling the cross action with sand. Is there another video?

 

[brazz04]

It's been talked about on the AR15.com thread. According to that individual sig got the rifle back and dug a ton of dirt out of the action, and apparently before the malfunction in the video, nutnfancy was packing dirt into the action as some sort of test? I can't believe someone was willing to lend a rifle to nutnfancy though, that's just silly.

 

[Blackrifle1]

HAS ANYONE FILLED OUT THE RECALL INFO AND HEARD FROM SIG?

I have a Cross in 6.5 CM. I went to Sig's website (the recall page) entered my serial number in and then I got an email - that was 12 days ago and NO reply yet from Sig other than the email. This tells me (IMO) that they do not have a solution to the problem yet and are probably scrambling to figure out what's going on. Until they figure it out, they probably will not send me shipping info to send back to them.

When I originally purchased the rifle it had a few issues, I sent back to Sig and they fixed it pretty fast, they paid all shipping fees, as I would expect them to do so. They said the Cross was a definite priority to fix the issues, which (IMO) they already know of alot of other issues the rifle has.

The rifle is all set up and is a great shooter, way better than I can shoot. Bummer it's gotta go back to Sig!

 

[Amanda4461]

If it is like my 1st gen MCX, some knucklehead apparently figured out a way to make his MCX go off as if it pulled it’s own trigger. I bought mine slightly used from a guy at Ft. Bragg. I put over 2500 reloads through it before I knew about the recall. I never had a single issue. Of course, I used CCI primers made to prevent slam-fires, and kept my barrel pointed in an appropriate direction when I used the weapon. I called Sig, asked about the recall, and was sent an explanation of the “problem” along with a recall prepaid mailing slip. I thought about it, decided against having a perfectly fine rifle changed due to some questionable reasoning. Lo and behold, no problems in over 5,000 rounds. I am, of course, a Sig fanboy, owning and using, mostly with handloads, the MCX, 516 SBR, German X-5, P-210, P-226, P-229 and MPX.
The only problems that I have with Sig, is the constant “Next Generation” introductions that result in spare parts for the first or second generation being MIA about as soon as the next generation arrives. Hard to buy a SBR Upper when they quit making the parts for Gen 1 because they are too busy making Gen 2.
The guns themselves? No issues ever. None. Colt Python, Diamondback, 1911’s, AR-15’s? No issues. None. S&W M&P-15, 41, 3913TSW, 5906, 19, 29, 27, 66, 586, 39, K-22, K-38? No issues. None, except it is hard to find magazines for some of the 9mm Semi automatics. Bergara? No issues. None. Remington 700, 870, 1100? No issues. None. Winchester 67, 61, 62, 101? No issues. None. H&R M-1 Garand? No issues. None.
I have owned, and still own most all of these fine weapons, and more. Since the only problems that I have ever had with any of these weapons was time to shoot, clean and appreciate them enough, I tend to discount all of the internet sob stories and recalls. Sig Forum contains more mall commandos whining about P210 Recoil Rod failures and Romeo1 failures than I can count. Funny, my P229RX and P226RX both have a Romeo1 attached since day 1. They are rotated for Steel Challenge courses, weekly practice and daily concealed carry. No issues. None. Don’t challenge anyone’s sob story, or you will be cancelled
Call Sig and tell them your P210 Captive Recoil Rod assembly self-destructed after 3,000 rounds, and you want to buy a replacement. Expect to be charged $50 plus shipping, and be pleasantly surprised to find an email with No Charge below the tracking number for a new recoil rod assembly. My recoil rod assembly wasn’t broken, I just wanted a spare.
If my weapons can withstand daily carry, over 50,000 rounds per year of stout reloads, with only a good cleaning and a fresh battery for the RDS, then I will understand if I ever receive a problem weapon from a weapon plant, as long as they are willing to act as Sig does at any notice of a problem found in the field.
Oh yeah, the P-210 I own was made in the USA, and with iron sights at 50 yards, will out-group my RDS-equipped German X-5, with 124gr and 147gr bullets, anyway. It looks great, works perfectly and is very accurate. Try one, you’ll wonder why you waited!

 

[Blackrifle1]

If it is like my 1st gen MCX, some knucklehead apparently figured out a way to make his MCX go off as if it pulled it’s own trigger. I bought mine slightly used from a guy at Ft. Bragg. I put over 2500 reloads through it before I knew about the recall. I never had a single issue. Of course, I used CCI primers made to prevent slam-fires, and kept my barrel pointed in an appropriate direction when I used the weapon. I called Sig, asked about the recall, and was sent an explanation of the “problem” along with a recall prepaid mailing slip. I thought about it, decided against having a perfectly fine rifle changed due to some questionable reasoning. Lo and behold, no problems in over 5,000 rounds. I am, of course, a Sig fanboy, owning and using, mostly with handloads, the MCX, 516 SBR, German X-5, P-210, P-226, P-229 and MPX.
The only problems that I have with Sig, is the constant “Next Generation” introductions that result in spare parts for the first or second generation being MIA about as soon as the next generation arrives. Hard to buy a SBR Upper when they quit making the parts for Gen 1 because they are too busy making Gen 2.
The guns themselves? No issues ever. None. Colt Python, Diamondback, 1911’s, AR-15’s? No issues. None. S&W M&P-15, 41, 3913TSW, 5906, 19, 29, 27, 66, 586, 39, K-22, K-38? No issues. None, except it is hard to find magazines for some of the 9mm Semi automatics. Bergara? No issues. None. Remington 700, 870, 1100? No issues. None. Winchester 67, 61, 62, 101? No issues. None. H&R M-1 Garand? No issues. None.
I have owned, and still own most all of these fine weapons, and more. Since the only problems that I have ever had with any of these weapons was time to shoot, clean and appreciate them enough, I tend to discount all of the internet sob stories and recalls. Sig Forum contains more mall commandos whining about P210 Recoil Rod failures and Romeo1 failures than I can count. Funny, my P229RX and P226RX both have a Romeo1 attached since day 1. They are rotated for Steel Challenge courses, weekly practice and daily concealed carry. No issues. None. Don’t challenge anyone’s sob story, or you will be cancelled
Call Sig and tell them your P210 Captive Recoil Rod assembly self-destructed after 3,000 rounds, and you want to buy a replacement. Expect to be charged $50 plus shipping, and be pleasantly surprised to find an email with No Charge below the tracking number for a new recoil rod assembly. My recoil rod assembly wasn’t broken, I just wanted a spare.
If my weapons can withstand daily carry, over 50,000 rounds per year of stout reloads, with only a good cleaning and a fresh battery for the RDS, then I will understand if I ever receive a problem weapon from a weapon plant, as long as they are willing to act as Sig does at any notice of a problem found in the field.
Oh yeah, the P-210 I own was made in the USA, and with iron sights at 50 yards, will out-group my RDS-equipped German X-5, with 124gr and 147gr bullets, anyway. It looks great, works perfectly and is very accurate. Try one, you’ll wonder why you waited!

I agree with what you say, and it's cool you never had gun issues- especially with all those guns. but, the recall exists because there IS a problem with the Cross rifle, maybe not every rifle, but I wanna know my rifle has been "looked over" by Sig and it's 100% safe without issues for everyone's safety. I'm sure 90% of us (including myself) have had some kind of mishap over the years, no matter if it's a round cooking off to bringing a friend to shoot and they point the muzzle where it shouldn't be pointed.

 

[Amanda4461]

I agree with what you say, and it's cool you never had gun issues- especially with all those guns. but, the recall exists because there IS a problem with the Cross rifle, maybe not every rifle, but I wanna know my rifle has been "looked over" by Sig and it's 100% safe without issues for everyone's safety. I'm sure 90% of us (including myself) have had some kind of mishap over the years, no matter if it's a round cooking off to bringing a friend to shoot and they point the muzzle where it shouldn't be pointed.

I don’t blame you. I mainly just cooked off due to a small number of Sig haters (could just as easily been Colt or Beretta or any particular manufacturer) , spending lots of time trying to convince folks that Sig sucks.Probably the same type of idiots who always hated on the 1911 since it’s first shot was fired. Mechanical stuff breaks for many different reasons, but if all you see are the multiple posts by the haters, hoping to influence your opinion after they buy a lemon, or don’t know how to manage their weapon, then Sigs are ALL JUNK. Bullshit.

 

[Blackrifle1]

I don’t blame you. I mainly just cooked off due to a small number of Sig haters (could just as easily been Colt or Beretta or any particular manufacturer) , spending lots of time trying to convince folks that Sig sucks.Probably the same type of idiots who always hated on the 1911 since it’s first shot was fired. Mechanical stuff breaks for many different reasons, but if all you see are the multiple posts by the haters, hoping to influence your opinion after they buy a lemon, or don’t know how to manage their weapon, then Sigs are ALL JUNK. Bullshit.

I love my Sig Cross now, and it shoots great. Bummer though, this is the 2nd time it's going back to Sig. NO company is perfect, that's fore sure. These 2 examples aren't "perfect", but I wish more companies were like Porsche and Wilson Combat....when it comes out it's been tested and tested and tested the best they can. It does seem that Sig has a history of releasing products too early and having issues. But, they certainly do manufacture alot of products also, could it be just the ratio that they have more issues because they make more products?

Yeah, ANY company can have some issues, but to me it's how you deal with the issue and treat your clients/costumers to fix it. The first time I sent back my Cross, Sig took care of everything and returned it within a week, which really (pleasantly) surprised me.

 

[ToddM]

To quote all the Vortex haters, the best customer service/warranty is the one you never need to use. Honestly my biggest issue with them as of late, is a lack of parts, and the expense of parts. It was months before I could get a replacement bolt for my MPX. If you want a spare MPX recoil assembly, you have to buy it with the carrier and bolt for $400, want an upper receiver, that's $500, want a spare barrel that will cost more than a new JP 6.5 Supermatch barrel with a headspaced bolt and a Sig barrel is no JP.

Sig does release products quickly, and the faster you release products the more likely you are to have issues. There's also the fact that Sig frequently makes significant changes from their early prototypes that you see compared to what ends up being production. Which is good and bad, it's good to make changes to your initial design based on prototype feedback and Sig seems pretty good at this. Where they seem to fail is then re-testing the changes before release. Also usually prototypes are usually all made in house with custom parts and high attention to detail, perhaps Sig is just not testing the production models enough before release. This is an inherent "problem" with all prototype work, there's a balance between fast and reliable product development, release too fast after a change you run the risk of the change being a problem, test too much and it simply costs too much.

The 320 Legion was that way. Pre-production samples had a visible "moving" chamber indicator like the M17/18, however when it hit the market for some reason all they had was the slot for it left in the barrel for the indicator, but eliminated the chamber indicator itself which promptly ported chamber blow by right into optic lenses.

You can see a "first look" review image here that shows the M17/18 style chamber indicator on a 320 Legion.

https://nitrocdn.com/KFZJlZbexsSXNbCnFseeRIzMgbUfmYML/assets/static/optimized/rev-6017326/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/320-x5-legion3_compressed-370x278-1.jpg

First Sig blamed the Leopold Delta Pro's for the issue saying it's lens was too exposed and refused to do anything, before their new optic was released, but it was also a problem for the new romeo too. After lots of unhappy people have blowby streaks on their optics Sig has to replace barrels for ones without a big slot in the barrel hood for existing customers and updated the barrel design to be solid. Current production models have no trace of any slot/hole anymore. It's hard to imagine any sort of significant testing with an optic in that configuration would not have exposed the issue. So either Sig didn't test it significantly after the change, or they hoped nobody would notice the issue.

At the end of the day though as long as everyone lines up to pay their prices and be beta testers, can't blame Sig for laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Blackrifle1]

At the end of the day though as long as everyone lines up to pay their prices and be beta testers, can't blame Sig for laughing all the way to the bank.

I partially disagree - first- shame on ANY company that has a defective product for dismissing the issue and putting blame somewhere else or just ignoring the problem all together. At the end of the day, ANY company that has formed a reputation for pissing off their intended customers that will have a negative reaction to their sales, but I think Sig is (IMO) too busy full fulling their military contracts. There's MANY people that I've read on numerous posts that swear they will never, ever buy another Sig product again.

I for one, am not saying I won't buy another Sig product again, but I will 100% never buy another "new' Sig model, I'll wait until it's been tested and has a good reputation.

 

[HousePlant]

If you want that type of rifle, buy the Tikka Tac A1

 

[Blackrifle1]

If you want that type of rifle, buy the Tikka Tac A1

man, everytime I shoot a buddies Tikka and cycle the bolt, I go back to my Rem 700 and say WTF??? The Tikka's a like butter smooth. I'd like to buy a Tikka action and put into a KRG W3 chassis. I have to say the bold on the Cross is pretty smooth also

 

[HousePlant]

Hard to beat a Tikka or Sako (unless, regarding the ladder, you are shooting short mags... then don't bother... spent cases hit today's scopes).

Can buy a Fierce rifle and get an action based off of the Sako 85 and you have quote a snazznuggets rifle...

Or just buy a Tikka and, unless you're one unlucky SOB, be just fine. Still made by people that give a shit.

 

[cliffy110]

If you want that type of rifle, buy the Tikka Tac A1

Tikka makes a folding stock rifle that weighs less than 7 pounds? Oh wait... they don't? Then why are you posting to this topic?

 

[HousePlant]

 

[brazz04]

View attachment 7495569

Dude, it weighs 4 more pounds. That's nothing to dismiss when looking for a hunting rifle...

 

[HousePlant]

Dude, it weighs 4 more pounds. That's nothing to dismiss when looking for a hunting rifle...

It's definitely lighter! A lot less metal will do that.

 

[cliffy110]

It's definitely lighter! A lot less metal will do that.

Yeah... not exactly sure what your "Butthurt" post was about. If you read my comments, I am mostly unfazed by this recall. It just isn't a source of panic and while I own one, it is cause for only mild concern. My comment to you was in response to your comment that said if you want "that type" of rifle to buy a Tikka. "That type" isn't a long range precision rifle that you suggested. An 11+ pound rifle with a 24" barrel has very little in common with a 16" barrel, folding stock rifle weighing under 7 pounds. There is nothing other than a protruding pistol grip that are similar in these. Not everybody shares your priorities in a rifle.

 

[ssteve]

Anyone heard back from sig? I wanted something similar to the fix but considering its garbage and Kevin is a complete douche I just couldn't do it. Then the rifle comes out that he ripped off and turns out its not looking so well either lol. Hoping they "fix" the issue soon but haven't heard of anyone getting their gun into them and anyone getting it back.