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So the only way to know which is closer to reality is to shoot long range using Litz bc curves and measure results on paper, or a convenient sand bank. The LR might have been wrong since the beginning, but without another device to compare, no way to know.View attachment 8259131
These are my numbers using the LR microphone.
2933 was money on AB (Kestrel). It was on 100-990 without having to tweak the MV and BC.So the only way to know which is closer to reality is to shoot long range using Litz bc curves and measure results on paper, or a convenient sand bank. The LR might have been wrong since the beginning, but without another device to compare, no way to know.
Surely someone has run a LR against Litz's equipmentThe LR might have been wrong since the beginning, but without another device to compare, no way to know.
LR's 2928fps would have gotten you w/in ~1" of the Garmin's 2933fps @ 1000yds, no?2933 was money on AB (Kestrel). It was on 100-990 without having to tweak the MV and BC.
Yup I was just saying the Garmin was good to go. Because everyone else when comparing always say is the Garmin correct? In my case yes.Surely someone has run a LR against Litz's equipment
LR's 2928fps would have gotten you w/in ~1" of the Garmin's 2933fps @ 1000yds, no?
This thing is so handy. I’m just going to take it with me to every range trip now. And I’m really looking forward to rifle load development while shooting for groups and velocity at the same time.
Also, Underwood 68gr +P 9mm is extra spicy out of an SP5. Sadly I don’t think the bullet design can take advantage of the extra velocity.
View attachment 8259152
That’s the plan today, microphone on the LR instead of recoil trigger, also >1600 yds where impact vs indicated MV should be easier to correlate if there’s a significant difference between the units.View attachment 8259131
These are my numbers using the LR microphone.
It won't pick up rapid fire.Anyone rapid fired with it yet? Not much utility but since most of us are just mentally batin’ out here figured I’d ask.
Litz’s did and reported it in his recent book. He showed in a test that two LRs tested were very close to his Oehler 35P, which they had lower error than the Magnetospeed.Surely someone has run a LR against Litz's equipment
LR's 2928fps would have gotten you w/in ~1" of the Garmin's 2933fps @ 1000yds, no?
Looks nice, but I wish it had a molle option.
I don't think there's much point in testing LR vs Xero unless they are just done at the same time and 30 shots fired and each one's recording of the same 30 shots are compared. There's too much variation in the ammo to tell anything with small sample strings.
I appreciate anyone testing and bringing info, I really do. That's my favorite thing to read on here. It would be cool to see the same 30 shots recorded by both and then look at what the ES and SD is. I bet it's going to be extremely close.
When I get a chance I will test the placement of the xero and how that effects the fps reading, while I shoot and do it with 20 shot strings for each distance from the muzzle and see but someone here will probably beat me to it.
There is a youtube video of the Xero moving in the x and y axis, with a page linked with the data to boot.
Video:
Data:
https://research.baso.dk/python/garmin_xero_c1_placement.html
And it's great and I appreciate the effort and data, but much like you raised on the LR to Xero comparisons, it's of limited value.
Ideally, we'd have testing of multiple Xeros on the exact same shot, with Xeros positioned at extremes - right by the muzzle, as well as very far away from the muzzle, as well as right in the Garmin defined sweet spot. Having that for strings of shots, would show if there is meaningful difference on placements with the Xero, etc.
Not to mention, the results would benefit from X, Y, and Z axis placements. We may find out, listen to garmin dummy and we should be 5-15 from the muzzle in both x and y. That would mean our botique and nodal slide mounts need a little work? Or we may find there is no difference as long as it's a few from the muzzle in x axis?
Anyway, I am interested for sure. I am not going to buy a second or a third xero to do so right now, but would participate in such testing if I had a group with them where we could test them.
There is a youtube video of the Xero moving in the x and y axis, with a page linked with the data to boot.
Video:
Data:
https://research.baso.dk/python/garmin_xero_c1_placement.html
And it's great and I appreciate the effort and data, but much like you raised on the LR to Xero comparisons, it's of limited value.
Ideally, we'd have testing of multiple Xeros on the exact same shot, with Xeros positioned at extremes - right by the muzzle, as well as very far away from the muzzle, as well as right in the Garmin defined sweet spot. Having that for strings of shots, would show if there is meaningful difference on placements with the Xero, etc.
Not to mention, the results would benefit from X, Y, and Z axis placements. We may find out, listen to garmin dummy and we should be 5-15 from the muzzle in both x and y. That would mean our botique and nodal slide mounts need a little work? Or we may find there is no difference as long as it's a few from the muzzle in x axis?
Anyway, I am interested for sure. I am not going to buy a second or a third xero to do so right now, but would participate in such testing if I had a group with them where we could test them.
Probably best!Thanks. TLDR: one meter right or left of rifle and in and it will pick up thr shot and record it. Don't know about how far behind the rifle it will accurately pick up the shots yet, but probably a good idea to stay close to the window Garmin tells us to.
I think most of the rifle attached set ups would fall into Garmins window from the muzzle though right?Probably best!
Would mean none of the rifle attached setups are good to go if that causes a meaningful variance though.
I think most of the rifle attached set ups would fall into Garmins window from the muzzle though right?
The EE who helped design and build the Xero talks about this on the Shooter's Mind podcast. They started this Chrono build around/or before covid.I would have to say 'NO'. Reading it it seems you need to be 5-15 from the barrel, then 5-15 from the muzzle as well. I have yet to see one that is anywhere near 5" from barrel.
Now, what if you raise it up, say 2" ABOVE the barrel, then 3" from the barrel... will this cumulative amount put it in a workable window?
View attachment 8259374
In any event, if it's CONSISTENT for a given placement, and YOU are consistent in that placement, you can still build DOPE etc from that.
But it's best you get consistent data regardless of where you place it, and if that requires you put it in that window, then that's what I would do. If I can get a away with a on firearm mount with negligible difference, I may do so. But I have no idea if that's the case.
1) You shut your whore mouth. Every issue with my shooting is due to technical errors of equipment out of my control and/or the position of the moon.If someone misses the target, it sure isn't because your Xero vs LR had a 5-10 fps difference...
Yeah I didn't realize they recommended it be 5"-15" left or right of the barrel as well. Seems to work pretty well closer to the barrel though from what others who've shot it a lot on a weapon mount have said. The front to back placement is what I was referring to. I could mount mine now but there's really no reason for me to yet so I will very likely stick to having it off the rifle anyway, but I'm sure I will test it front to back placement and see how it goes while shooting just to see.I would have to say 'NO'. Reading it it seems you need to be 5-15 from the barrel, then 5-15 from the muzzle as well. I have yet to see one that is anywhere near 5" from barrel.
Now, what if you raise it up, say 2" ABOVE the barrel, then 3" from the barrel... will this cumulative amount put it in a workable window?
View attachment 8259374
In any event, if it's CONSISTENT for a given placement, and YOU are consistent in that placement, you can still build DOPE etc from that.
But it's best you get consistent data regardless of where you place it, and if that requires you put it in that window, then that's what I would do. If I can get a away with a on firearm mount with negligible difference, I may do so. But I have no idea if that's the case. If I find out my mount on the firearm introduces 5 fps +/-, or worse, fluxuating results compared to a proper Garmin Window setup, then I have to rethink how I deploy the Xero.
I see we have another sophisticated cinema fan who has seen the greatest documentary ever made...Anyone rapid fired with it yet? Not much utility but since most of us are just mentally batin’ out here figured I’d ask.
I accidentally fired too quickly and realized I missed a couple readings. Just wait until it shows the previous shot’s velocity before the next shot.Anyone rapid fired with it yet? Not much utility but since most of us are just mentally batin’ out here figured I’d ask.
Considering you shoot directly above it with pistols, I’m guessing that having it a little above a rifle is fine. I think they’re just trying to keep the unit away from muzzle brake blast on rifles.I would have to say 'NO'. Reading it it seems you need to be 5-15 from the barrel, then 5-15 from the muzzle as well. I have yet to see one that is anywhere near 5" from barrel.
Now, what if you raise it up, say 2" ABOVE the barrel, then 3" from the barrel... will this cumulative amount put it in a workable window?
View attachment 8259374
In any event, if it's CONSISTENT for a given placement, and YOU are consistent in that placement, you can still build DOPE etc from that.
But it's best you get consistent data regardless of where you place it, and if that requires you put it in that window, then that's what I would do. If I can get an away with a on firearm mount with negligible difference, I may do so. But I have no idea if that's the case. If I find out my mount on the firearm introduces 5 fps +/-, or worse, fluxuating results compared to a proper Garmin Window setup, then I have to rethink how I deploy the Xero.
Interedasting. I haven't put it in pistol mode yet. You're correct. Maybe it just is to protect the unit?Considering you shoot directly above it with pistols, I’m guessing that having it a little above a rifle is fine. I think they’re just trying to keep the unit away from muzzle brake blast on rifles.
Mine actually picked up a pistol shot from the bay next to me. The bays were very narrow, so I doubt most would have issues picking up someone else’s shots. BUT, I think it shows how wide the area is where the Xero can be positioned. The velocity I got from the guy’s shot was plausibly correct for what he was shooting.
So doing this today shooting 300PRC and using the microphone on the LR, my biggest Delta on any given shot (over 15 shots) was about 6fps. Very close, consistent performance. I also ran it against a 338 using a LR/recoil trigger (17 shots) and got similar results. My previous testing that yielded larger Deltas using a LR/recoil trigger was with a 6.5CM. So now I have a new theory that the heavier recoil from the 338 makes the recoil trigger more consistent than the lighter recoil of the 6.5. I don't know, just guessing. But I had some Deltas in the 19-21 range when shooting it against the 6.5 with LR/recoil trigger, but nothing over 6 with the 338/recoil trigger LR, or the microphone-triggered LR 300PRC.View attachment 8259131
These are my numbers using the LR microphone.
Smoke won’t effect a 24 GHz radar. Heavy rain will, but not smoke.Has anyone tried the Garmin with Black Powder loads? I know that the smoke plays games with the Ohler
Is that the Forest Lake Sportsman’s Club?Mine worked great today, even when shooting through a large concrete culvert. Speeds were ~10fps slower than MS (0.5%)
View attachment 8258871
It’s safe to say at this point that the Xero is accurate enough for a majority of the users to load develop with.So doing this today shooting 300PRC and using the microphone on the LR, my biggest Delta on any given shot (over 15 shots) was about 6fps. Very close, consistent performance. I also ran it against a 338 using a LR/recoil trigger (17 shots) and got similar results. My previous testing that yielded larger Deltas using a LR/recoil trigger was with a 6.5CM. So now I have a new theory that the heavier recoil from the 338 makes the recoil trigger more consistent than the lighter recoil of the 6.5. I don't know, just guessing. But I had some Deltas in the 19-21 range when shooting it against the 6.5 with LR/recoil trigger, but nothing over 6 with the 338/recoil trigger LR, or the microphone-triggered LR 300PRC.
I picked up a manfrotto pixi evo 2 to use with mine.
It's not quite as small or light as the Garmin tripod but it's still very compact, and with the legs fully extended in the wide position it's far more stable and less likely to tip over than the little Garmin tripod. Has a built in ball head too for aiming on uneven surfaces.
Amazon just recently jacked the price back up, as I paid $35 just a few days ago.
View attachment 8257775
Would you mind posting some measurements, specifically with the legs completely collapsed and the ball head turned 90* to the side? I want to see if it’ll fit in the case I ordered for everything. Thank you.
4.5” if that helps. Collapses lower and made of aluminum.
It's about 8.1" with the legs collapsed and the ball head turned to the side. I have everything in a pelican 1150 which is 8.29" inside and it fits with a little room to spare.
I wish it was a little bit shorter with the legs fully collapsed so I could have fit it in a smaller case, but I'll live with it to have a more stable tripod.
4.5” if that helps. Collapses lower and made of aluminum.
I have an Evergreen 56 and a Leofoto MT-02C mini tripod with an LH-22 ball head coming in tomorrow. I’ll let you know how it fits.Thanks. I ordered the evergreen 56 that was listed a few pages ago, it says 8.4” internally so it should be alright. I’m hoping I can fit the garmin, better tripod and my kestrel in the same case.
I picked one up at BassPro a couple days ago.Any Hide vendors have them in stock? Or any vendors at all for that matter?
@CSTactical has some coming in a few weeks or less I thinkAny Hide vendors have them in stock? Or any vendors at all for that matter?